IN THE NEWS:

Amidst news of the CHIPS Act, Youngkin administration is currently marketing three potential sites for semiconductor fabrication plants in Southside Virginia, potentially bringing thousands of jobs to the region, as well as benefits to national security and local higher education.

Also in the news: At a local school board meeting, Congressman Bob Good (VA-05) proposes putting video cameras in classrooms to allow parents to watch for, “indoctrination,” and Critical Race Theory.

Also: Thomas and Michael reflect on some mistaken takes- such as the Democratic handling of Critical Race Theory and their original discussion of the Roe v. Wade decision leak.

GUEST:

Russell Swartz, Salaar Khan, and Maggie Sheerin of the Our Seat at the Table podcast talk about their experiences working in politics, the ways politicians have succeeded (or failed) to reach Gen Z voters, and the responsibility of young people in upcoming elections.

Learn more at https://linktr.ee/JacklegMedia

Our Seat at the Table: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/our-seat-at-the-table/id1607868033

Sponsored by the Substance Abuse and Addiction Recovery Alliance of Virginia

Michael Pope

I'm Michael Pope.

Thomas Bowman

I'm Tom Bowman.

Michael Pope

And this is Pod Virginia, which has more staying power than a subpoenaed text message from Ken Cuccinelli.

Thomas Bowman

Sick burn. You know, that's a jailable offense, Michael.

Michael Pope

It is very strange how all these text messages from January 6th and January 5th are so important to American history. They've been requested by government officials. They're probably the most important text messages that these people have ever sent or received. And they just kind of mysteriously disappear in this rush to upgrade equipment.

Thomas Bowman

Think about almost every political scandal in the history of political scandals. You don't get busted for the crime, you get busted for the cover up.

Michael Pope

It's always the cover up. That's the lesson of Watergate that I think people probably haven't learned yet. But um...

Thomas Bowman

Well, Michael, we've got a lot to talk about today. So let's get to it. Because later in the show, we'll meet the three co hosts behind, "Our Seat At The Table." It's a great new podcast by Gen Z about Gen Z. They're talking about youth engagement and politics. And they've got tons of experience already working in campaigns across Virginia.

Michael Pope

I was really interested to hear what they had to say about the 2021 campaign here in Virginia. They contrasted their perspective of what the Youngkin campaign was doing, with what the McAuliffe campaign was doing. And wow, that was part of the discussion that was really eye opening to me.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, and my takeaway really reinforced one thing that I that I already believed, but it really showed to me just how disconnected communications from elected officials are on the issues that they think is important, and where Gen Z's eyes and ears are on the issues that Gen Z believes is important.

Michael Pope

Yeah, you're definitely going to want to stick around for that. All right. Now, before we get to the news, though, Thomas, do we have any new patreons to thank?

Thomas Bowman

Yes, we do. Jake, Lauren, and Anna, thanks so much for helping contribute to the work we do here at Pod Virginia. Your support makes us possible and did you know that patreons get exclusive content?

Michael Pope

Like our new episode with Lauren Victoria Burke. Now, she did crisis communications for former Lieutenant Governor Justin Fairfax, back in the era when he was accused of sexual assault, and our new exclusive content episode she dishes the dirt about what happened when Gayle King of CBS was preparing to interview the accusers. Check out this audio clip from our exclusive content episode.

Lauren Burke

Of course, I called Gayle King, I text Gayle King, I said, "Gayle, you realize that there's a lot of things you really need to ask that has not been reported that you may not know about that you might want to ask for this interview."

Michael Pope

So what happened before that interview on CBS?

Thomas Bowman

Well, for the rest of that story, you're gonna have to be a patreon to find out. So thanks, Jake, Lauren, Anna, and everyone who's chipped in at least $3 a month to listen to that episode, and also support independent media here at Pod Virginia.

Michael Pope

Yes, thank you, Jake, Lauren, and Anna, and all of our patreons. We could not do this show without your support. So we really appreciate it. All right, let's get to the news. Will Southside Virginia become the next Silicon Valley? The Youngkin administration is currently marketing three potential sites for new semiconductor fabrication plants, the Sussex Megasite and Sussex County, South of Petersburg, the Mid Atlantic Advanced Manufacturing Center in Greensville County, that's near Emporia. And perhaps the most important potential site, the Southern Virginia mega site at Berry Hill in Pittsylvania County, that's near South Boston. This is where economic development folks were hoping to land an Intel facility there at Berry Hill in Pennsylvania. But Intel ended up choosing Ohio instead.

Thomas Bowman

Missed it by that much. But Michael, if these semiconductor plants come to Virginia, that would be huge for domestic manufacturing. We don't make very many things in this country anymore, everybody knows, but less well known is just how important these semiconductor chips are to modern society.

Michael Pope

And potentially even to jobs in Southside Virginia. You know, this is a part of Virginia that is struggling and has been struggling for many years. So to bring jobs, and infrastructure, and money...And I mean, like this actually could have the potential to be a huge driver here of benefiting a region of Virginia that needs help.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, the bill now on Biden's desk has about $40 billion in direct financial assistance for construction and expansion of manufacturing facilities here in the United States. So that's a really huge investment. And there's every reason to believe Virginia might get onto that gravy train.

Michael Pope

You know, I asked John Provo at Virginia Tech about that Berry Hill site there in Pittsylvania County. This is where Intel almost had the facility and then Ohio stole it. So I asked John Provo about that particular site as a potential new semiconductor fabrication plant. And this is how he responded to that.

John Provo

Well, I think sites are important. But I think there are other things that we need to do as a state, and should be doing while we're out looking to attract folks with these new federal subsidies when they're in place. So you know, it's a very specialized sort of workforce that's needed for these plants. So the state has provided some support, recently, in Northern Virginia for George Mason and others to support the continued growth of the micron facility in Manassas. And we certainly have other assets that will be appropriate for workforce and R&D to support this industry and other parts of the state. But to make a deal like this work, we're going to need to find a way to broaden our ability to support programs like that elsewhere.

Michael Pope

So yeah, Berry Hill might end up landing the deal with a new fabrication plant. And you heard John Provo just there talk about the micron facility in Prince William that actually might be expanded under money from this new federal act. But what about all the people needed to work at these semiconductor fabrication plants? Provo says he wants the gravy train to include workforce and development, and Thomas, guess where that workforce and development would happen? At Virginia colleges and universities.

Thomas Bowman

One of the most important things to consider for site location is not just Greenfield versus Brownfield development, but also proximity to transportation. So not only do you need railroads to ship parts and components across the country, to assembly sites, for other products, you also need good roads for trucking. You also need an airport.

Michael Pope

Yeah, and you know, one of the things that's really important about this debate about semiconductors in fact, the reason that Congress had a fire under its ass on moving on this, is because the national security threat. You know, it's a really horrible idea to have China cornering the market on semiconductors. It's a bad idea for a lot of reasons. One of which, China might invade Taiwan, and then what happens to your supply chain for semiconductors? Well, that becomes really screwed up. And so what happens to your iPhone, the next iPhone that you get, where's the semiconductor coming from? When you buy a new car, where's the microchip going to come from? And so like, there's a lot of reasons that Congress felt a need to act really soon on this.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, and it's not just computers and keyboards and mice, and of course, electric vehicles, which is a growing segment of the market. But this is going to be critically important to national security, when it comes to being able for us to use and build precision guided munitions or smart bombs. And yeah, I get it. We don't like wars either. But if you're going to have a war, you want to be able to use smart bombs so you can actually hit your target you intend to hit, and not kill a bunch of civilians with dumb fire bombs. That's what happened in World War Two.

Michael Pope

Alright, so the semiconductor bill that's currently under consideration, it prohibits companies who take this new federal money, they are no longer allowed to build new semiconductor facilities in China. So it's like the whole thing is aimed at encouraging domestic production and discouraging foreign production of semiconductors, at least for American companies. So for more on this, I spoke to Alok Berry at George Mason University about the national security threat posed by the use of Chinese semiconductors that are in our cell phones and our automobiles, and as Thomas just said, even our smart bombs. This is what the professor had to say about that.

Alok Berry

Whatever information we are putting in, in designing their chips, it will be obtained by China. And many times they are misusing that information.

Michael Pope

This is one of those things that's a little scary to think about. But it's worth keeping in the back of your head, that cell phone that you're walking around with, is made with Chinese semiconductors, which is a pipeline of all of your information going right to China.

Thomas Bowman

A lot of these Chinese companies are SOEs or state owned enterprises. And that means that a major owner and contributor is the PLA army.

Michael Pope

Well, you know, China is not the only spy lurking in the shadows. All those irate parents who show up at school board meetings across Virginia to complain about, like, Critical Race Theory, they have a new champion in Congressman Bob Good.

Thomas Bowman

Nice segue.

Michael Pope

Thank you. Check out what Congressman Good said at a recent school board meeting in his district.

Bob Good

One of the things that I've been some folks don't like to hear me say but I've been an advocate for the last few years since the China virus first hit our shores two and half years ago for cameras in the classroom. We don't have cameras in the classroom, so that parents and community members, parents, parents and family guardians, can dial in at a time, and see what's happening in class. There's a way that can be done, which protects the privacy of the children.

Thomas Bowman

Debatable, but before we get to that, you're going to notice that Bob Good frames the issue is something he's advocated since COVID hit our shores.

Michael Pope

You'll also notice that he, specifically, talked about the, "China virus," which is a derogatory way to talk about this, and you know, is problematic, but you know, the framing of this, as coming ever since the, what he calls, "China virus," first hit our shores. Thomas, is he trolling us? I mean, like the, you'll notice, the way he laid that out is before we even got to the cameras in the classroom, he made a point of calling it the, "China virus," with the expectation that people would be mad about his use of the phrase, "China virus," which is true, it actually makes a lot of people very angry, that use of it. But like, isn't this sort of the classic definition of trolling, saying something that you know makes people angry for the purpose of getting them angry to suit your political purposes?

Thomas Bowman

It does, but who is the target of his trolling here is up for debate too, Michael, because this could undermine diplomacy, which the United States and China are in very sensitive conversations right now. And one thing that China has told us, that it very much bristles at, is the characterization of this virus, which happened to start in Wuhan, China and calling it the, "China virus," which is derogatory, and discriminatory, and also leads to misperceptions about the nature of the origin.

Michael Pope

Yeah, also worth thinking about. So we heard that audio from Good, he's talking about cameras in the classrooms. All right, so let's take this sort of thought experiment and really sort of dissect it here. Who has access to that footage? So assume for a second, that you've got a camera, a live camera, webcasting every single classroom in Virginia. Who has access to watch that specific classroom of Mrs. Smith's class at your local elementary school? The way that he explains it, its parents and legal guardians. And the audio clip, he kind of tripped over a little bit, because he first says, "community members," and he says, "Oh, not not community members." But like, that's actually part of the problem here is if if parents have access to the web stream of a specific classroom, then you can see a situation where it gets out, and other people have access to it, as well. So you know, what Good what Congressman Good is trying to do here is capitalize on the 2021 campaign that Youngkin was really successful, in talking about parents and parents rights. And he was helped, of course, by Terry McAuliffe, who stuck his foot in his mouth in that final debate by talking about how parents shouldn't have a say in how schools go, I mean, which which played perfectly into what Youngkin was trying to do, in terms of framing the campaign as parents, and the rights of parents. So for Republicans, Republican candidates, Glenn Youngkin rewrote the playbook for all of that, in terms of promising parents, they would have more control over what happens in their local schools. Now, Congressman Good wants to build on that.

Bob Good

School boards have to know, again, that parents are watching, the families are watching, the voters are watching. And they will hold us accountable that we reflect what they want from us, when we serve and represent them. We want to make sure that we don't have indoctrination going on in our schools.

Michael Pope

Indoctrination going on in our schools. I mean, this sort of aligns with a lot of stuff that we hear from Republicans about grooming, you know, which is very problematic. And these allegations are all designed to align with this moral panic about drag shows, and transgender teachers, through what they call, "indoctrination in the classroom."

Thomas Bowman

Well, and, ultimately, what he wants, is a bunch of strangers watching your kids and snitching. And you can easily imagine a situation like this getting completely out of hand, you could have troll farms set up in anywhere in the country, anywhere in the world, that just sit there and file report, after report, after report to teachers, and one, they're going to gum up whatever works there are on something like this, but to why would you ever become a teacher at this point? And what is Good's Democratic opponents saying about all this?

Michael Pope

Well, that would be Josh Throneburg. He's the Democrat running against Bob Good this year. And I asked him about that idea, that cameras should be in every single classroom. And he said a couple of things. The first thing is first, that would require a lot of broadband. So from his perspective, it's awfully rich coming from a congressman who voted against the infrastructure bill. Right? So and then on the idea of teachers, and why would anyone want to be a teacher in this environment, this is what he had to say about that.

Josh Throneburg

This is a group of people who was already overworked and underpaid before COVID ever came. COVID just made that so much worse. And so to bring proposals forward, that just adds more and more stress, and pressure, and lack of trust onto that group of people, it would devastate our education system.

Michael Pope

I think the key language there is, "lack of trust." You know, I mean, there is this lack of trust, of teachers, fostered by this moral panic about drag shows, and something that gets a lot of marketing success under libs of TikTok. You know, like, this is the whole- you're talking about troll farms. I mean, like, the kind of infrastructure for this sort of already exists online. So you know, giving them unlimited access to the web stream of every classroom in Virginia, would really create a totally different environment for what it means to be a teacher.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, well, and we're already there. But this would make it absolutely worse. It make it so much harder to recruit good teachers, especially in rural areas, which are already struggling. And that also brings us, Michael, to Critical Race Theory. That's the law school concept that is not taught in Virginia schools, but Republicans say is the Boogeyman.

Michael Pope

Yeah, you know, when Congressman Good was laying out this proposal about cameras in the classroom to the Campbell County School Board, that's the audio that we've been listening to is Congressman Good speaking to the Campbell County School Board, he shared a conversation he had with school officials in a neighboring county. Now, Congressman Good said the officials in this unnamed neighboring jurisdiction, denied teaching Critical Race Theory, but he didn't believe them.

Bob Good

"Hey, we don't teach Critical Race Theory. We teach cultural responsive teaching," and was essentially the same thing. Well, no school in Virginia probably has a class that says, "Critical Race Theory," it's that indoctrination, or that ideology, that permeates what is taught or the narrative, or the framing of the issue, in which a dishonest racial narrative, it's an anti American narrative, it's dishonest about our history.

Michael Pope

The reaction in the room, there, is really interesting, so you're hearing Campbell County School Board, people that are in the room reacting to that. So they believe, you know, clearly, that anything that challenges the sort of existing view of American history, their view of American history, is dishonest. And so they frame it, they framed all of this as Critical Race Theory, like that's sort of the headline that they use talk about all these bits and pieces. And so I mean, like, that's kind of where we are with this, like the the point of the cameras, is to identify, root out, what they believe to be Critical Race Theory, which could be anything from culturally responsive teaching, to who knows what?

Thomas Bowman

Well, diversity, equity, and inclusion and Michael, by the way, since it's so hot right now to say I was wrong about, I was dead wrong about Democrats being smart enough to bat away this Critical Race Theory talking point.

Michael Pope

Yeah, so why do you say that?

Thomas Bowman

Well, look, it would have been really easy. It should have been really easy. And when you- one of the steps that would have been required is to, rather than freak out, and panic, is to consult people of color. And the fact that someone like Bob Good, and others who came before him, are framing this issue as an anti American narrative. When, like, that kind of is what Critical Race Theory is saying, is that you often cannot separate white supremacy from the structures underlying the foundation of our democracy.

Michael Pope

Well, they don't like that.

Thomas Bowman

I know and look at the Senate. The entire U.S. Senate exists because we needed to get the South on board. And we punted with a three fifths compromise that delayed the Civil War for 80 years. And then we continue to fight segregation, Jim Crow, and everything that comes after that, all comes down to some original sin. And so to frame it as being dishonest about our history, is actually quite the opposite. What is taught today is propaganda. And what we need is to be honest about our history.

Michael Pope

So you mentioned that admitting that you were wrong about stuff, is kind of in vogue right now. So the New York Times recently did this opinion section where all the New York Times columnist admitted to being wrong about things, it was actually a fascinating read. So like Bret Stevens admitted he was wrong about Trump voters, and David Brooks admits that he was wrong about capitalism. And Thomas Friedman admits that he was wrong about Chinese censorship. So we got Thomas Bowman admitting to being wrong about Democrats Critical Race Theory. I also have a confession to make, Thomas. When we talked about the leaked Supreme Court draft overturning the right to abortion, I was way off, I was totally wrong about that, in terms of the source of the leak, and the conventional wisdom. I bought into the idea that the conventional wisdom of the leak was from somebody supporting abortion rights. But I think in the reporting that's happened since that time, and sort of, all the things that we know now, I think it's way more likely that that leak came from somebody who opposed abortion rights. And in that discussion, Thomas, you had a really interesting theory that Ginny Thomas might have had something to do with this. So, the interesting sort of reporting that's happened, you know, since the leak happened, is that there were like these competing camps on the Republican side, you know, in the anti abortion side, and that John Roberts was trying to keep Roe and keep Casey, but sort of change how the threshold for when abortion could happen. So Roberts was trying to keep like, keep Roe in place, keep Casey in place, but then uphold Mississippi's 15 week ban. And he was trying to persuade Kavanaugh, and Barrett, to come over to his side. And so that was the dynamic there, is that Thomas wanted to keep Kavanaugh on his side. And Thomas wanted to keep Barrett on his side. And he was, and that, you know, he and that side of the Supreme Court justices, they wanted to make sure that the Chief Justice wasn't able to pull Kavanaugh to his side, wasn't able to pull Barrett to his side, to keep Roe in place, and keep Casey in place, while also upholding Mississippi's 15 week ban. Yeah so it's a really good theory that the purpose of the leak was to lock everybody in place, and make sure that Kavanaugh didn't change his vote, and Barrett didn't change her vote. And that is clearly what happened too, I mean, if you I mean, forget about the theorizing about what people hope to get out of it. Look at what actually happened as a result of it. And the justices were locked into place to overturn Roe. That was the result of the leak. So yeah, admitting that you're wrong about stuff is in vogue now, thanks to the New York Times. So I was totally wrong about conventional wisdom on that leak.

Thomas Bowman

All right. But we could talk about this for a long time because there's certainly a lot more to say. But we want to get in our DeLorean and go back to the future because after the commercial break, we're joined by three Gen Z college students and they have a great new podcast that we want you to hear. We'll be right back.

Michael Pope

And we're back on Pod Virginia. We're going to talk about the future, as in the next generation of leaders.

Thomas Bowman

What do young people want? How can candidates reach them? Many college kids are already engaged in the political process. But what about those who aren't? What can be done to reach those potential future voters?

Michael Pope

To dig into those issues, we're joined by three college students who have an excellent podcast. You got to check it out. It's called, "Our Seat at the Table." All three of the hosts are here with us today, for Pod Virginia's seat at the table. Russell Swartz, Salaar Khan, and Maggie Sheerin. Thanks for joining us.

Thomas Bowman

In unison, that was great. All right. Let's start by getting to know you just a little bit. Russell Swartz, tell us a little bit about yourself, and what do you do with the podcast?

Russell Swartz

Yeah, of course. Thanks, Michael and Thomas for having us on. I'm a big fan of Pod Virginia. But yeah, I was born and raised in the suburbs of Richmond, Virginia. Along with Salaar and Maggie, we all went to high school together. I'm now at Virginia Tech. Go Hokies. Yeah, I studied political science and management. So I'm right where I want to be. In terms of the campaigns that I've been working on, started off with Abigail Spanberger's historic flip in 2018. I went on to help out the local candidates there, Delegate Willet, Delegate Van Valkenburg. And then I actually got to run a campaign in 2021 with Blakely Lockhart, youngest woman to ever run in Virginia. Really proud of that. And I'm currently with Herb Jones running in in the first district.

Michael Pope

All right, well, Salaar Khan, tell us a little bit about yourself and what you hope to accomplish with the podcast?

Salaar Khan

So I've actually been involved with politics, knocking doors and all that, since I was 13 years old, actively working on campaigns. Nowadays, I'm at William and Mary, so a lot of people think of me as someone who works, specifically, with college students. And that's something I love to do. But I've been trying to work with young people since five, six years before I could even vote. I started off working for campaigns like Keegan, his first congressional campaign, working for races in western Henrico, back when he was ruby red, and I was super excited when candidates like Abigail Spanberger started to change that back in 2018. When Maggie, Russell, and I were all in high school, we were friends. We kind of started, or reinvigorated, our high school Young Dems together. I got serve as president and we got to grow it into one of the most active and influential High School Young Democrats in Virginia. From there, we kind of went on to help out with the 2019 campaign, Russell talked about Valkenburg, Deborah Rodman, Rodney Willett and I ran their high school program, which Russell and Maggie were both a part of. I've been able to advise a lot of candidates, which I'm really proud of. But I've also been able to bring the issues that really matter to me. I got into politics at a really young age, because I'm legally blind, I grew up with other disabilities. I'm a son of immigrants, but my parents really raised me with the values of service and hard work. And I saw a community that helped me, despite my disadvantages, but wasn't really getting the same thing back from the government. So I'm really focused on students issues, disability access, communities of color, and trying to make sure that other students like me, through vehicles like this podcast, can get informed, get engaged, and make sure the issues they're passionate about, actually have action taken, their voices as young people are still heard.

Thomas Bowman

Thanks Salaar. All right, Maggie Sheerin, tell us about yourself and what you want to do with the podcast?

Maggie Sheerin

Hi, thanks again for having us here. I am a rising senior at the University of Vermont, where I'm studying political science, public communication, and law in society. Even though I'm studying 10 hours away, I am also from Henrico, like Russell mentioned, and that's where I really got my start working on campaigns, and trying to advocate for youth engagement. Like they both mentioned, I worked with them, volunteering for the Deborah Rodden campaign in 2019. And then I worked for Marcus Jones, who ran for the Henrico County Board of Supervisors in the same cycle. Whenever I can, I love to give Marcus a shout out. He's been an incredible support for me and is an all around amazing human. I then went to school in Vermont, and I ended up interning for the mayor of Burlington, where I worked on his reelection campaign in 2021. And then came home and worked alongside Russell and Salaar again, as the communications director for a House of Delegates race in Virginia. And now I'm working as the Communications Director, again, with Russell for Herb Jones, who is running for Congress in Virginia's first congressional district. And each of these roles that I've had, as well as with my role in the podcast, I really try and focus on encouraging other young women to engage in the political process. While doing this, I always try and check my privilege, because I'm very aware of the fact that the world of politics is much more welcoming to a woman who has my skin tone. However, I firmly believe that we need an intersectional approach to politics, and we can start that by encouraging all women to engage as much as possible.

Michael Pope

All right, well, let's get right into it. I want to focus our discussion on strategies that candidates and organizations can do to reach young people, and I want to start by contrasting Glenn Youngkins campaign for governor last year, with Terry McAuliffe 's campaign for governor. Now, you all saw this play out last year. So what did you see the candidates doing right? And I'd love some specific examples, and also, perhaps, more importantly, even, what did you see the candidates doing wrong?

Russell Swartz

Being in the rural part of Virginia, we didn't see much of Terry McAuliffe, south of Charlottesville. I think he made one trip down there, where he only met with about 20 of us in the Young Democrats Club. And I've gotta be honest, I didn't end up going. I didn't want to go.

Michael Pope

You didn't want to go? Why not?

Russell Swartz

It just did not sound like a fun event, sitting with Terry McAuliffe, listening to his talking points yet again. And this is coming from the biggest Democrat you'll you'll ever meet. But contrasting that, now Governor Youngkin, he was a regular down in Blacksburg. He came to almost every one of our home football games. And if you've ever been to a home football game in Blacksburg, you know how many people show up week after week. We packed that stadium 70,000 full and a lot of them are non voters. He really struck into the Dave Portnoy, Barstool kind of guys, don't usually care about politics, but have now gotten involved and have really gotten behind Glenn Youngkin in Virginia.

Salaar Khan

Yeah, I completely agree with Russell. And again, like Youngkin is not my cup of tea as Governor, but he did a better job than McAuliffe, when it came to getting young voters. McAuliffe had an opportunity to really get involved with young voters and really make a difference there. But he didn't. His organizers would go into colleges like William and Mary, I saw it firsthand, and instead of accessing the thousands of votes that we have in Williamsburg, where we can make a real difference, and sort of organizing all those thousands of people to get involved, to vote, to knock doors, these organizers would show up to the same, like Russell said, 20 Young Democrats, that were already going to volunteer, and make the phone calls and all that stuff and just get a checkmark next to it. They wouldn't do anything beyond that. And they didn't seem that concerned in actually engaging young people. And it's not just, I think the these anecdotal stories, you can see it in the numbers. Biden, in 2020, in Virginia, won voters under 30, by over 20 points, I'm pretty sure? And McAuliffe only got about- beat Youngkin by about six points. That margin right there, would have been the difference between the election.

Michael Pope

So what do you think McAuliffe should have done? I mean, like we talked about, Youngkin going to the football games, but like, if you're going to give McAuliffe you know, a bullet point list, like what should he have done?

Russell Swartz

You've got to go to places where I mean, you don't usually go. You can't keep going to the same well every time. And I mean, Glenn Youngkin kind of knew that, being a Republican, in, arguably, a Democratic state, he knew he had to expand his base. McAuliffe was content with going back to the same well of Democrats over and over again. So if I was on McAuliffe's campaign team, I would have sent him to a couple of tech football games, I would have sent him to Charlottesville, just walking around the city, meeting with small business owners. Go to places where you're not usually welcome. People really respect when you show your face where they don't usually see it.

Maggie Sheerin

I agree with Russell. I think, cut back on some of those high dollar fundraising events that people our age can't afford to get in, unless they're volunteering for it, in which case, you've already secured their vote, cut back on some of those events, when you already have a well funded campaign, and find community events that are free to the public, that you can go to that you might talk to a voter that you would have never come across otherwise.

Salaar Khan

Yeah. And then addition to what Maggie and Russell already said, I think young people aren't just a source of votes, they're a source of energy. The best way to get young people to vote for you, is to get other young people to convince them. Every single person our age can text 10, 20, 30 friends to get them involved. But with a few volunteers who are already coming to Terry's team, they didn't try to get more volunteers. They didn't try to get those people to use their connections to try and get a youth movement behind them. Instead, they just had them doing the same old fashion, pick up a phone and call 30 strangers.

Thomas Bowman

So what about other recent campaigns? So how have candidates actually successfully reached out to, specifically, Gen Z? And what are some examples of real failures?

Russell Swartz

One of the best, I mean, coordinated campaign efforts I've seen, not only to target young people, but for the Commonwealth of Virginia, was 2019. I thought that was brilliantly ran. For example, down in Henrico County, they found people, people being Salaar, myself, and Maggie, who were already interested in politics, and then kind of took their hands off, they gave us control. And we were able to grow that program from three or four to 200 by working with our friends, and kind of doing it our way. You got to trust young people to gain their support.

Salaar Khan

Yeah, I think the 2019 model is a great one to talk about, not just because we're tooting our own horn, but it's kind of a pyramid scheme model. If you want to get kids in high school involved to knock doors, to get them engaged, to get them to vote, you talk to other young people, and that had an actual effect in the races we worked on. Rodney Willett's campaign, for example, in 2019, I think about a third to half of the volunteers who were knocking doors for him, who were working on the field, who helped make sure he won, which was largely accredited to the successful field program, those were all young people. But there's also the idea that young people don't vote, that they don't care, which I think just isn't true. If we look at some of the numbers, young people, especially Gen Z, are getting more and more involved. But I think candidates have to step up and show little authenticity, and learn how to connect with them. There's the example right now Fetterman up in Pennsylvania running for the Senate. He's being creative in the way he's messaging. He's talking about things like how Dr. Oz goes to tourist sites, and they have a big sign up in New Jersey that says, "Welcome home Dr. Oz." Those things are not just effective for voters, but they get people's attention. They get young people wanting to be involved. And it's a lot better than someone like Hillary Clinton who would just get up on the podium and say, "Pokemon go to the polls."

Maggie Sheerin

Yeah, I think there's a requirement of authenticity that Gen Z requires when they're trying to find candidates that will reach them. And not just because I go to the University of Vermont, but because I do think it's necessary when talking about politicians who have successfully engaged a younger audience, is to talk about Senator Bernie Sanders. He, on paper, should not be invigorating a young audience to go to the polls, and be involved in a political process. But when he's engaging directly with advocacy groups that are led by young people, like the Sunrise Movement, and other climate groups, and other groups that are going to the streets, and protesting, and on picket lines, he's right there with them, he joins them and spreads their message, and doesn't try to adopt it as his own. He promotes theirs. It encourages young people that he's there for them, and is listening to them. I think a lot of the conversation seems like it's a monologue, not a dialogue. And people are discouraged from trying to talk to politicians that don't seem like they're listening, or won't do something if they hear them.

Thomas Bowman

Maggie, since you brought up Senator Bernie Sanders, every single supporter of Senator Sanders, in either of his presidential campaigns, have all said to me, the reason that they support him, is because he was the only candidate talking about the things they care about. Is that true in your experience, broadly, or is that an isolated opinion?

Maggie Sheerin

It's maybe less so the fact that he's talking about the issues that they care about, and moreso, the fact that he's been consistent on it for his entire career. You don't get the sense that he's saying it, because it's what's currently popular. He's not flip flopping on issues. People respect the fact that, even if they disagreed with him at certain times, he's remained committed to it.

Michael Pope

Alright, I'm also curious about meeting young people where they are. Now, a lot of candidates and elected officials spend a lot of time, and money, and effort on newsletters, and the recent success of substack seems to indicate there is a way to do this. But perhaps there's also a way not to do this. So tell us about what's in your inbox and how much of it resonates?

Salaar Khan

Yeah, I'll tell you right now, what doesn't resonate is every single newsletter I get from some kind of candidate or elected official every week, that's the weekly update on Congress person, so and so. I'm not reading it, I don't care. I'm much more likely to see your update on my Twitter feed when it doesn't also require me to go into my inbox, take 15 minutes of my day and see who asked me to donate $15 or whatever. I think that people, broadly, but especially young people, don't really trust a candidate's newsletter. Now, I think if it's an actual newsletter from a different source, from a journalist, that's niche, that has a way to gain traction, especially depending on the demographic, but for me, campaign and candidate newsletters, they can be effective with some demographics, but young people are not those demographics.

Thomas Bowman

You hear that delegate so and so? Stop making your LA write your newsletter for you.

Michael Pope

I was just gonna say, Thomas, I think a lot of our listeners are legislative aides who write those those newsletters, and so now they're hearing on Pod Virginia that young people are not reading them.

Thomas Bowman

Nobody's reading it. It's not just young people.

Russell Swartz

My grandma loves them. So...

Thomas Bowman

Where do you get your news? So let's go around the horn here, starting with Russell. Russell, like, you pick up your phone at whatever time you wake up, 7am, 1pm whatever it's going to be. What do you look at first when you're like, "Okay, what happened while I was asleep?"

Russell Swartz

Yeah, I'm gonna get flamed for this. But it's Twitter. Twitter's always the first thing I open. Yeah, 100% of that stuff is not always accurate. But it's my attention span. This generation's attention span is not greater than the the character limit on Twitter, is what I like to say. So I usually scroll through Twitter. It gives me the top three or four big stories of the day. If I want to read more, I can go to one of the respected news outlets that I go to, usually The Hill, CNN, but I'm I'm a nerd like that, some people just don't don't even go past the first step of Twitter.

Salaar Khan

For me, I think one of the ones that doesn't get a lot of attention are just news notifications. A lot of people aren't going to go on the CNN or New York Times website and read every article. But when they get something that pops up on their phone, they'll check it out, they might even click on that link. And that's the first thing I look at in the morning, is what news notifications did I miss while I was asleep. I'll, like Russell, I'll check Twitter sometimes. And then a lot of people I know have like a lot of like daily little podcasts they'll listen to, for the news, a 10 minute type thing, nothing too long. And then, I don't, but I know Snapchat News is a pretty effective one with young people.

Maggie Sheerin

Yeah, I'm the same, I wish I wasn't. But it's news notifications on my phone when I wake up. And I'm checking the time and see which ones I'm scrolling through, which I'm clicking through. And even though I know that's a not very productive way to consume news, because it's just giving you the most sensational headlines, it's what's most convenient, and is what's most likely to happen for people in our generation about what they're going to see as soon as they look at their phone. It's what's convenient. I wish it wasn't, but it is.

Thomas Bowman

How do you break through, if you are of limited means and resources, let's say you've got maybe $10,000 to spend on the stuff for delegate for the whole year. You don't have a lot of money, so like what do you do, in a cheap way, to meet people with where they are and to also elevate your- not your issues, but elevate the issues that happen on the state level?

Salaar Khan

Yeah, I think other than the kind of relational organizing, we've already talked about, of bringing in young people on your team to help as interns, as organizers, to get their own communities involved of young people. Young people aren't a monolith, they are part of other communities. And the number one thing I tell candidates who want to get more involved with young people is I say, go to community events, go to events for immigrant communities, Muslim communities, Asian American communities, churches, all kinds of things, and find the young people there, because a lot of times, they have their own young leadership that's looking for opportunities, that wants to get involved. And that's a really good way to bring together multiple communities. But focus on young people and help them help you.

Russell Swartz

I mean, the old saying is young people have time and energy, they don't have the money. Give them the resources to help you, and they will help you. Get cool graphic design stickers that say, "Feel the Bern," that we can stick on our computers, and take around campus. I mean, like Salaar said, the organizing is going to be the biggest piece of that. In 2019, we had kids come after school down to the campaign office to do their homework, and then they'd go knock a list of doors. Really make it a community, make it a fun place to be surrounded by friends, and people who will support you, not only for that campaign, but down the road. I'm still friends with, obviously, a lot of them.

Maggie Sheerin

Yeah, use the talent that you have available to you. And I think something that could be utilized in Virginia, especially, where every year is an election year, is taking the time and effort to find creative ways to reach students that are here that are eligible to vote that maybe have no idea Virginia has an election in an off off year. I know at Vermont for town meeting days in March, people get graphic designers to design cartoons, that they'll slip under everyone's door in every dorm to let you know, hey, there's an election, here the candidates, and yeah, maybe sometimes their candidate support is a little obvious and how they portray the others, but at the end of the day, it lets people know there is an election. And some young people would love to vote, and are ready to organize and get to work. They just need to know what's happening and people need to reach out to them to make sure they know.

Michael Pope

All right. Well, this has been a lot of fun. We really appreciate you joining us on Pod Virginia. I'm going to ask one last question. I'm going to turn the table on all of you and ask you the same question that you asked people on your podcast, which is, what's your message to young people? Russell Swartz, I'll start with you.

Russell Swartz

You caught me, Michael. We weren't supposed to have an answer for that. No. But I mean, my message to young people is show up. I mean, this is such a pivotal time in American history. Unfortunately, it's happening while we're teenagers. And we really don't really have an experience of what, "normal," is. But you got to trust me here, this is not normal. So you got to show up for the candidates that will show up for you, and will show up to defend our democracy, time after time. Here in Virginia, we have elections every year, so you don't have an excuse not to get involved.

Salaar Khan

Going off of Russell's point, this is a pivotal point in American history. And I think that all the best movements in our country have been led by young people. Just look at the history, the legacy of John Lewis, and the students who helped lead the Civil Rights Movement, and then went into politics themselves, so they could keep making a difference. We have to follow in those footsteps, so we can't give up. I think a lot of times, we get tired, because it's exhausting, year after year after year, especially here in Virginia, because it doesn't stop. And sometimes we do feel disappointed by our politicians, even the Democrats that I love so much. But what I'm gonna tell young people is don't- you don't have to love your state legislative candidate, you don't have to love your board of supervisors candidate, you don't have to love your congressional candidate. But think about the issues that are on the ballot every single year. And young people do care about those issues. Just look at the summer of 2020, we showed up. We are one of the most energetic, diverse generations in American history. We can make a difference as long as we stay hopeful. So I think that's my message, just stay hopeful.

Maggie Sheerin

That's a really beautiful way to put it and to be maybe a little bit less optimistic in that is that we can't afford to be passive. We can't sit back and complain about things that are happening in D.C. and not try to do something ourselves. We can't afford to be passive about climate change, or a woman's right to choose, or gun safety. These are things that are impacting our generation. And we need to make sure that we're not sitting by and allowing things to happen to us. We need to actively take our seat at the table, always have to get the plug in, and make sure that our voices are heard and that we know we have the power to make change so that we can stay hopeful.

Thomas Bowman

Russell, Salaar, Maggie, thanks for joining us. Check out, "Our Seat at the Table," anywhere pods are cast.

Russell Swartz

Thanks, y'all.

Salaar Khan

Thanks so much, Michael and Thomas.

Michael Pope

Pod Virginia is a production of Jackleg Media. Our Producer is Aaryan Balu, our Social Media Manager is Emily Cottrell, and our Advertising Sales Manager is David O'Connell.

Thomas Bowman

Find us on Facebook or Twitter, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and hey, write a review on Apple Podcasts. It really helps people find the show.

Michael Pope

We'll be back next week with another episode of Pod Virginia.