Book Bans, Predatory Lenders, and Spending After Early Voting
IN THE NEWS:
A coalition of payday lenders is challenging the constitutionality of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which was set up in a way to make sure its funding source is protected from Congress. Now consumer advocates here in Virginia who have worked against payday loans, car title loans, and high-interest online loans, they’re worried about what might happen if the court rules against the bureau.
Almost 400 book titles have been challenged this year in Virginia, according to the American Library Association. Advocates for free expression in literature say the recent trend of people challenging a list of books they got off the internet poses a real threat.
Voting started last month, and so many people will have already voted when television commercials are airing and direct mail is arriving. Virginia's 45 days of early voting is a recent development and one that hasn't seemed to change much of how campaigns operate--but should it?
Episode Transcript
Michael Pope
Michael Pope.
Thomas Bowman
I'm Tom Bowman.
Michael Pope
And this is Pod Virginia. A podcast that is lobbying to be the next Speaker of the House. It could happen, right, Thomas?
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, you and Jim Jordan, I guess. Michael, I have a personal life update for you. You know how you and I just had multiple incidents where math is not our strong suit, and we'll screw up the numbers on something.
Michael Pope
I have one of those instances probably once a week. Yeah. So I'm familiar with that.
Thomas Bowman
Okay, I'm tired of being bad at math. And I want to one day help Theo with his homework because I like topped out at multiplication tables, but I still don't have those down. So, I am teaching myself trigonometry and precalculus concomitant with classical mechanics and quantum mechanics all at once. Because I am up from 8pm when my shift starts all the way till 2:00 or 2:30 in the morning when I go wake Rachel up for her shift. And so I've got a lot of downtime while the baby sleeps, and I got bored watching TV. And so I'm like, fuck it. I will teach myself math because I never even took a high school physics course, trigonometry course, or high school calculus. So, I'm just catching up now.
Michael Pope
Yeah, I recently took up watercolor.
Thomas Bowman
Same actually.
Michael Pope
Alright, let's get to the news. Odor in the courts, a coalition of payday lenders, is challenging the constitutionality of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which was set up to ensure its funding source was protected from Congress. Now, consumer advocates in Virginia have worked against payday, car title, and high-interest lenders. They're worried about what might happen if the court rules against the CFPB. Here's Dana Wiggins at the Virginia Poverty Law Center.
Dana Wiggins
It is helpful to help with these products that undermine our Fairness in Lending Act, passed in 2020 and successfully kept credit available without the more predatory aspects.
Thomas Bowman
Last week, the Supreme Court heard oral arguments in the case, which is being closely followed by people like Jennifer Mandelblatt at the advocacy group United for Democracy.
Jennifer Mandelblatt
There are protections that students face when taking out loans to ensure they're getting a fair deal, and homeowners are counting on them to ensure that they're getting a fair deal. All of that is at risk because this case is about putting predatory payday lenders and their rights above ours.
Michael Pope
Virginia Attorney General Jason Miyares is siding with the payday lenders. Arguing in an amicus brief that the way the CFPB was set up, this is his words, "casts separation of powers to the wind and avoids any real accountability." All right, if you're scratching your head, wondering what all this is about, the CFPB helps consumers, and predatory lenders hate the CFPB. And they've been trying to shut it down since the first day it was created after the Great Recession. So after that financial crash in 2007 - 2008, Congress took action in the Dodd-Frank Act to create the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, and payday lenders have been trying to shut it down ever since. And so when the Dodd-Frank Act set all this up, they did some exciting things to protect the CFPB from Congress going after it. So, one of the ways was to preserve the funding source. Most government agencies are funded by Congress, but they set up a paywall here where the CFPB is not funded by Congress. It's actually funded by the Fed. And now these payday lenders are saying, well, that's unconstitutional. You can't do that. The appeals court in New Orleans sided with the payday lenders, whereas the original decision actually sided with the CFPB. So this is where the Supreme Court steps in and tries to figure out who's right here. Was the original decision siding with the CFPB the better decision, or was this New Orleans Supreme Court decision siding with the predatory lenders? Were they right? And so yeah, this is what the Supreme Court will eventually rule on. And it's going to have dramatic consequences here in Virginia.
Thomas Bowman
You know, not always, but usually, politicians are more subtle when they corruptly push clearly corporate agendas over public agendas because there's literally no reason for them to do this. It also completely hamstrings well-established agencies in the Virginia government, which is why we're talking about it. And, of course, not just the CFPB. There are lots of agencies that effectively self-fund, and Congress set it up that way, or the executive had set it up that way due to their powers. And they know, there's no question regarding their authority to do this. But what they do know is they have a bunch of lawyers and judges on the bench, all from the Federalist Society, all pushing their own partisan agenda over public interest. And once they're there, they're there. And this is one of those opportunities they're trying to seize while they have it. This is incredibly distressing to people who like good government and small government because this is a huge overreach to push corporate agendas over the public.
Michael Pope
If you're Jason Miyares and trying to get the Republican nomination to run as Governor, you would like the financial help of the predatory lenders. Plus, you look like a pro-business person. And so I think the financial incentives here for the attorney general, being part of this, are pretty clear. You also mentioned the lawyers involved in this. It was interesting when the Supreme Court had the oral arguments last week. The lawyer arguing on behalf of the payday lenders was Noel Francisco. Is that a name that brings about with your Thomas?
Thomas Bowman
No, I can't say it does.
Michael Pope
He argued on behalf of Bob McDonnell when the Bob McDonald case was before the Supreme Court. I was in the chambers when they heard that.
Thomas Bowman
Who's Bob McDonald?
Michael Pope
Yeah, Noel Francisco argued in favor of Bob McDonnell. Which, by the way, he won. Let's not forget he won that case, Noel Francisco. So now he's arguing on behalf of the payday lenders to essentially declare the CFPB unconstitutional, which would open up the floodgates to predatory lending here in Virginia. So, it's definitely a case you want to watch.
Thomas Bowman
I guess we'll have to.
Michael Pope
Alright, let's move on to our next story. Moral panic: almost 400 book titles have been challenged this year in Virginia, according to the American Library Association. Deborah Caldwell Stone at the association says, "that's a huge increase from an earlier era when things were more of a one-to-one ratio. One person would challenge one book." Here's what she told me about that.
Deborah Caldwell Stone
What we're seeing now is an individual or group coming to a library and saying, we have this list of 100 books that are LGBTQIA themed, or they're about the lives and experiences of Black people and describe our history of racism in a way that we don't agree with and we want them removed.
Thomas Bowman
Advocates for free expression in literature say the recent trend of people challenging a list of books they got off the internet poses a real threat. Here's Jonathan Friedman at PEN America.
Jonathan Friedman
We're talking about both bands; we're talking about a practice that we associate with authoritarianism, which is something that we associate with efforts to control and constrain and engage in, for lack of a better term, forms of mind control.
Michael Pope
Form of mind control. Ironically, many books targeted for bans are dystopian novels about societies where people can't think for themselves. It is distressing that you have people with this list of 100 books they want to ban. And they haven't even read the 100 books, but they want to ban them. What the heck is going on with this?
Thomas Bowman
Yeah. And we hit on this last week with Aaryan while you were gone. But look, never in the history of history. Have the good guys ever been the ones pushing for book bans? Does it mean that something threatens them, or they're scared of you finding out? Often, the people and organizations who do this end up making those books more popular because you are probably not likely to read a specific book or novel if you have yet to hear of the book's name. And once that name is in your head, you're like, what's all the fuss about? You're more likely to read it.
Similarly, printed warning labels that went on to music. If you remember when they put those onto records. Those albums sold out so fast that they flew off the shelves because teenagers wanted to listen to that music. After all, their parents were supposed to be advised of explicit content. So if they do that with books, for example, it's more likely that those books will get read by kids, which is actually probably, ironically, maybe a good thing.
Similarly, movie and video game ratings used to be people afraid of getting Rated M for Mature, or you know, T for Teen. And there is a matrix of ideal ratings for video games and sales. But people want to play those Tenn and Mature games or those PG-13 and R movies. Do you really want to sit and watch a G-rated movie? No. It's boring unless you're a kid or a really good Disney movie. So, the people who ban books follow a clear authoritarian playbook where they first ban and burn books. And literally, if you walk through the Holocaust Museum, they walk you through. And it says right at the entrance, this paraphrase, but basically, wherever people burn books, they shortly start burning humans. So this is a very clear path that we are on and need to get off. The fact that only a small fraction of a fraction of people are the ones pushing for this shows just how effective small organizations can be when their sole goal is simply to cause chaos. And that's exactly what they're doing, gumming up the works of the machinery of democracy, which is already easy to jam up. And even when they aren't successful, it has a chilling effect on people like teachers who don't want to deal with the flak or the criticism or the politicization just deciding not to teach it in their classroom, or libraries just voluntarily deciding not to carry the book, because they just don't want to deal with the political fallout. And then yeah, that has higher order effects because fewer people have access to those books, which makes it less likely that they will change that person's life and some kind of meaningful direction.
Michael Pope
Yeah, these moral panics happen in cycles. And about the early 2000s, there was a similar kind of book banning, you know, moral panic in Fairfax County. And the organization started with one book that they wanted to ban. And then there was another book. It's funny because the website for this is actually still up. And so by the end, they've got hundreds, there are hundreds of titles that are still on this website of books that this Fairfax County group wanted to ban. So think about the mentality of someone who takes a list of books they haven't read they know nothing about. And they go to you people in power with this list of books they know nothing about and ask that all of them be banned. What has to be in a person's mind for that to happen?
Thomas Bowman
Well, I'll tell you what's in a person's mind, money and partisan politics, because if you go, there's a great resource, the Democracy Labs, thedemlabs.org. And they have a huge compendium of Republican attacks on public libraries. And this has gotten a lot of play. We talked last week about the library in Orange County, Samuels Library out in Front Royal, which got its funding restored. I think Pod Virginia should take credit for that. We have an engaged listener who heard our story and realized what was happening. Still, it's gotten national news here in The Guardian, an English newspaper. Business Insider covered similar efforts and Spotsylvania county school boards. And they've got a map here. That's really fascinating. I wish we could push this out on social media because this map shows all locations where there's been an organized Republican or right-wing effort at censorship. This is really troubling and indicative of a well-funded grassroots effort. That's not really grassroots. It's what we call in the industry astroturfing.
Michael Pope
As a longtime library user in Alexandria, I'm looking at this map you sent, and I zoomed in. And basically, every library branch in Alexandria is on this map. That's the environment we live in, where libraries are targeted, books are targeted, and ideas are targeted. Perhaps it's no surprise that the targeted ideas are stories around Black people and LGBTQ. And so yeah, that's the war. That's the war of ideas that's currently happening. There is an irony here to the increasing popularity of targeted books. You mentioned it back in the 1980s. When Tipper Gore added those stupid labels to albums, their sales shot up. I would love it if Glenn Youngkin were to ban my book. Yeah, that hasn't happened yet, but sales would skyrocket. So, Governor, give it some serious thought.
Thomas Bowman
Michael, there's another angle here for these efforts from the right wing to effectively just close libraries, attacking they're funding like they did for the Samuels library. Libraries do more than just let you check out books, right. So of course, it's not just literature, it's reference books to advance your knowledge if you don't have access to the internet, they've got internet for you and computers available and printers available for you to use. So, this is a huge resource that low-income people frequently use. And I remember when I lived in Arlington, the central library, by my house, also had a tool and garden implement checkout system for the community. So it's more than just books that get defunded when libraries get defunded. And, of course, they've got access to remote applications so that you can listen to the audiobooks or check out the digital copies of the books through one of several apps they might have a license to use. So this is something that if these libraries get shut down, it hurts many people in many ways. Adjacently, they can be attacking the ability of low-income people to go and do things like register to vote and request an absentee ballot because they take the bus, go to the library, and do everything they need to do on the computer. And then they go on the bus home, shutting down the library and an avenue for low-income people to vote. And they're also often voting locations themselves on election day. So, this is a really important thing that Democrats need to understand: this is an asymmetrical attack on low-income people.
Michael Pope
And researchers. Let's not forget that I have been to that main library in Arlington many times. And I've seen that garden area you're talking about because I've walked by it to get to the Virginia room in that library with your local archive. You know people, a lot of times, mistakenly believe that everything is on the internet. Well, guess what? Everything is not on the internet?
Thomas Bowman
No, it is not.
Michael Pope
That Virginia room has all kinds of great maps, documents, and collections of letters, old newspapers, and old ziens that were independently published. Several years ago, I was writing a book about the kind of shotgun-wielding prosecutor in Arlington who shut down brothels and casinos and went after corrupt politicians. All the research I did for that was not online; it currently is not online and will never be online because it's in the Virginia room. So, the history of how Jim Crow influences elections is tucked away in dusty archives. And so these libraries are important to unlocking that story.
Thomas Bowman
And not just dusty archives. Specialized knowledge can make it hard to find accurate details online. I started the episode by discussing how I'm trying to teach myself highly advanced math. And I found that you need to do more than just a Google search to find most of this information. You need to have access to monograph textbooks of some kind. Sure, there's lots of great content on YouTube. But when you start getting into highly specialized, detailed things like electron vortexes and quantum dots, the books that you tried to buy off Amazon are going to run you over $100, sometimes over $200, because they're so rare and specialized that there's not a massive market for them. And so these libraries have those things. So you can get practically anything you need access to these libraries at your fingertips. So, there is high drama for the Dewey Decimal System in Virginia.
Michael Pope
Yeah. And on our next episode, the electron vortex. All right, moving on to our next story. Early voting is late cash, so voting in this election for 2023 started last month. So many people will have already voted when all those television commercials start airing, and all that direct mail arrives in your mailbox. J Miles Coleman at the University of Virginia tells me he'll watch how campaigns plan to spend this voting season.
J. Miles Coleman
Republicans have a pretty good advantage over the Democrats in terms of ad time they booked on television. So, do the Democrats invest more in their ground game, for instance. That's a dynamic I'd be looking for.
Thomas Bowman
Virginia's got 45 days of early voting; that's the longest in the country. That's a recent development that has yet to change much of how campaigns operate, says Alex Keena at Virginia Commonwealth University.
Alex Keena
It's weird how this development over the past couple of years since the pandemic and the expansion of early voting has really changed the game. But campaigning has mostly stayed the same. And it has to do with people who actually run campaign advisors. There's a certain conventional wisdom that changing people's mindsets is hard.
Michael Pope
So the people that Alex Keena is talking about there, those people, our listeners to Virginia. And I'm curious about the disparity that the real money in this election hasn't even started yet. In our recent episode, Thomas, you, and I discussed the new fundraising numbers. And that was a snapshot in time because it was all the money that had been raised and spent up until that point. But it's important to remember that all the big money hasn't started flowing yet. That's going to happen later in this election cycle. So here's the disparity we're thinking about. So many people have already voted, right?
Thomas Bowman
Right.
Michael Pope
So, isn't there a disparity here, like the traditions of campaigning and the cycle that everybody's got in their head doesn't match the calendar anymore, right?
Thomas Bowman
That's right. And also things like the salience of your advertising spending go way down. So it's already a scattershot. When you go up on broadcast or cable, because you don't know who's watching, you only know that you're reaching your intended audience if it's over-the-top streaming and digital. But otherwise, the efficacy of your ad spend on those traditional media outlets goes way down because people have already voted. So you're getting even less bang for your buck in traditional ad mediums, which is a huge, huge, vast portion of campaign budgets, especially in Northern Virginia, where a quarter million dollars is needed to do a quick ad hit. Or think about how much money these campaigns are spinning on direct mail that goes straight into the trash. So you just want something that looks eye-popping and catchy. So you know, with five big words like your name, democrat or republican, and vote on this day, right? Why are you doing that when we no longer have an election day?
Michael Pope
Well, Thomas, let me ask you about the direct mail thing, right? So, these campaigns have access to a lot of data. And one of the datasets they've got access to is the names of the people who have already voted. So can they take that list and cross-match it with their direct mail list and not do direct mail to people who have already voted?
Thomas Bowman
That is something that definitely gets done and has been happening. But what I'm trying to say is, these campaigns could actually reduce their costs of sending mail by at least the number of like these direct mail flights, it's about $4,000 to $7,000, flights for a House of Delegates campaign, depending on where you are. That shit adds up quickly, especially when you need to do about seven or more mail flights. So think about that: you can reduce the number of addresses you need to send direct mail to because it works. And it works more effectively in some districts than others, depending on your access to other information and media consumption. But generally speaking, you could reduce the amount of direct mail you have to send by starting with all of your strong Dems and just giving them an absentee ballot request or all of your strong Republicans and just mailing them an absentee ballot request with a little piece of your campaign lit right so go fill this out, mail it back pre-stamp your envelope, it costs 50 cents or whatever it is today. And you can do a bulk mail return rate depending on how established your campaign operation is. You could literally reduce from the very beginning the amount of money you have to spend on direct mail by making sure you give all of your guaranteed supporters who, if they vote, will definitely vote for you an absentee ballot request, and that's what they should be pushing on the doors to. And then, of course, similarly gives you more time to talk to persuadable independents. And to make sure that you know when you are flipping them, you're not wasting time on GOTV operations of people of your base because you've already gotten them to come out and vote. You can do GOTV operations on lean votes, undecided votes, and lean opposing votes to try to talk to them; you can spend more time engaging with the community rather than just trying to circle the wagons to get reelected. We will give you an absentee ballot request form to start with the okay. As soon as it comes, fill it out for us. Give them your campaign, lit bah bah blah, it reduces your cost of operations. If you don't have to go back and talk to him. It's the easiest way to avoid getting spam calls is the easiest way to avoid getting junk mail. It's the easiest way to avoid people bothering you and knocking on your door that you don't really want to talk to you anyway. Just vote early. Campaigns should prioritize that because they can reduce the mail they have to send to their universe.
Michael Pope
Yeah, the election calendar has changed. But the campaign calendar remains stuck in this old way of doing things.
Thomas Bowman
There's a lot of turnover in this arena. Also, many people run national businesses; these mail firms use direct mail firms based in Atlanta, or they're based in DC or elsewhere around the country. And so they're not necessarily intimately familiar with the recent nuances of Virginia's campaign cycle dynamics. That makes getting somebody when you're looking to hire or put vendors on your caucus list more important. They can't just be giving you the same old shit they've given you for the last 10 - 20 years. You need people who know how to operate specifically in Virginia and can craft strategies specific to Virginia to ensure your candidates. As the caucuses, you are making the best use of your dollars. An absentee first strategy is one that absolutely makes sense for all of the campaigns all candidates for, and it is better for you and me because we don't get so much spam.
Michael Pope
Note to campaigns out there. Hire Virginia people for your Virginia campaigns. All right, let's take a break. When we come back, we'll play a round of trivia and read your comments.
This just in Virginia Attorney General Jason Miyares is issuing a statement explaining why he's on the side of payday lenders instead of the CFPB. He said (cash register noise). All right, let's go around the Commonwealth. Governor Glenn Youngkin is accepting a $2 million donation from a lobbyist for Tiktok.
Thomas Bowman
The Governor has also changed his last name to desperately trying to appeal to the Young-Kin.
Michael Pope
A new statue has finally replaced the one of Robert E Lee in Roanoke, and it's one depicting Henrietta Lacks, whose contributions to science are both amazing and controversial.
Thomas Bowman
There's an incredible book about it called The Immortal Life, and it's just been banned by Virginia libraries.
Michael Pope
The Virginia Department of Conservation and Recreation is losing six years of data about pollution-controlled farmland.
Thomas Bowman
One director stated we knew they existed in a county somewhere before immediately losing his keys, forgetting where he parked, and taking an Uber to someone else's house.
Michael Pope
We have all been there. Haven't we all been there? Virginia Attorney General Jason Mijares has sent a letter to the NCAA's trying to get his alma mater, James Madison University, into a bowl game.
Thomas Bowman
Madison himself said all men having power ought to be mistrusted because they might use the state's letterhead for something incredibly dumb.
Michael Pope
A podcaster in Charlottesville was recorded taking a $30,000 bribe from a nefarious solar company in exchange for no longer talking about them on his podcast.
Thomas Bowman
This just in Pod Virginia is going to be raising its prices.
Michael Pope
Yes. The police department in Fairfax County has officially stated that a proposed expansion of police oversight is unnecessary.
Thomas Bowman
In similar news, mosquitoes have decided that bug spray is illegal.
Michael Pope
In some good news, Warren County will fully fund the historic Samuels Public Library, which charts its history back to 1799.
Thomas Bowman
It's 224 years old, which would make it the youngest member of the US Congress.
Michael Pope
Man, rough on Congress; there are Thomas, yikes. All right, let's play a round of trivia. So last week, we asked you about the last time Virginia voters elected a third-party candidate as Governor. Well, it was way back in 1881. That's when William Cameron was elected Governor of Virginia. So we asked you what the name of his party was.
Thomas Bowman
And if you have your copy of the Byrd Machine handy, you can turn to page 25 for that answer.
Michael Pope
Yes. And when you turn to page 25, you will see that the answer is the Readjuster Party, so they readjusted the debt. That's why they were called the Readjuster Party. All right, and we have some winners,
Thomas Bowman
John Provo posted the answer on threads, and Carter Hutchinson posted the answer on X. I am also deciding to readjust my debt.
Michael Pope
It was popular in the 1880s, and it worked. For the registers that actually got to fund public schools, they opened a bunch of public institutions. They got rid of the poll tax. And so yeah, they could do stuff with that money they got from readjusting the debt.
Thomas Bowman
Imagine that concept of doing stuff with the money you've got.
Michael Pope
All right. So we've got some winners, Thomas, tell them what they won.
Thomas Bowman
You've won a copy of Levon Helm's autobiography, the only band book in a book about a band called The Band. That's not yet a banned book because it's harmlessly about five cis white guys.
Michael Pope
A banned book about the Band. I love it.
Thomas Bowman
Michael, what about this week?
Michael Pope
All right. Our trivia question for this week is about the time Tom Garrett caused the Clerk of the Senate to clear out the chamber of pages. So this is our theme of banned books here. Senator Garrett caused a stir by reading from a Toni Morrison novel that included depictions of rape and Beastiality. So here's the question: what was the name of the Toni Morrison book Tom Garrett read on the Senate floor in 2016? And I'll give you a hint because I know you're thinking it's Beloved. It's not, it's not beloved. What was the name of the Toni Morrison book? Tom Garrett read on the Senate floor. That's our trivia question. Thomas, what's the latest? You're hearing around the water cooler.
Thomas Bowman
Michael, I don't know if you've seen these pictures, but the new GAB looks hot. And I would love to check that out with you sometime.
Michael Pope
I have not been myself; I could not get down there for the media tour, which I'm super bummed about. Although, of course, eventually, I'll get there. And I know Thomas, one of our listeners, loves to host our game show in his office. So we've done this a couple times when his office was in the Pocahontas building. And when Delegate Alfonso Lopez is moved into his new office in the new GAB, perhaps we can all meet up for an in-person game show of buy, sell, or hold.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, well, Michael, with the new baby, I've adjusted our services at Resolute Strategy. I'm not personally even offering lobbying or government affairs work anymore, which means I will only have a reason to be in the General Assembly Building if you and I are there to record it. So maybe if one of our listeners is excited to show off their new digs during the session, shoot us an invite. Let us come see the place. Give us a reason to be there.
Michael Pope
Yeah, I'm curious. Who's got the better view? Does Marcus Simon have the better view? Or does Alfonso Lopez have the better view? Or Scott Surovell?
Thomas Bowman
You know, we're gonna have to judge for ourselves and report back to you guys. But first, we need the invite. Michael, what are you hearing around the water cooler?
Michael Pope
Well, shout out to my friend and colleague, Ben Pavior of VPM. He had a great story on NPR's Morning Edition about election officials here in Virginia scrambling to add back voters mistakenly removed from the rolls. Oops, we mistakenly removed all these people from the voting rolls.
Thomas Bowman
Isn't that the second year in a row that they've done that?
Michael Pope
It happens all the time. Apparently, this time, it's about probation violations. So, an unknown number of people have been illegally removed from the voting rolls because of probation violations. So, they should not have been removed from the rolls because they violated probation. And yet they were maybe they'll get the right to vote back. But this election is already happening. So, it reminds me of that math error that harmed all the low-income school districts. This is a weaponized incompetence from the Youngkin administration. So, this time, it's about elections rather than public education. Let's hope the folks at the Department of Elections find the time to fix this problem as soon as possible. So these people can exercise their right to vote.
Thomas Bowman
Nice soapbox moment, Michael. Let's leave it there. Let's go to listener mail.
Michael Pope
All right, let's open up that Pod Virginia mailbag. Thomas, what are our listeners talking about?
Thomas Bowman
Hey, Pod Virginia listener and guests. Sam Shirazi has heard your show with Stephen Farnsworth about the election of Chuck Robb as Governor in 1981 and posted this on threads. "I enjoyed the episode and the old clips. I would add that the possible 2025 Democratic candidate for Governor, Abigail Spanberger, arguably comes more from the party's Chuck Robb and Mark Warner wing. So, it is still relevant today. I agree with that.
Michael Pope
Yeah, there's definitely a line there between what Chuck Robb was able to accomplish in 1981. And what Mark Warner was able to accomplish and what Abigail Spanberger might be able to accomplish in the next election. So yeah, there is an interesting throughline to the history of Virginia politics. That episode got lots of commentary. We also heard from legendary investigative reporter Mike Deason, who covered the 1981 election for Wavy TV in Hampton Roads before moving on to Tampa, where he became a famous investigative reporter, so he actually heard the episode and posted this on X. "Great piece takes me back to those days. Then I moved on to investigating corruption in Flordia of a goldmine for an investigative reporter". So it was great. Thomas, it was great for me to hear from Mike Deason. As someone who went to high school in Valrico, Florida, an excerpt from Tampa, I'm familiar with Deason's work. So, having him listen to and comment on our episode was great. We also actually heard a significant amount of audio from Mike Deason, circa 1981, covering that race for Governor. So yeah, that was fun, really fun digging into the archive for all of that.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah. Thanks, Mike. Glad you liked it. We also got a message from a listener, Tanmay Gupta. She read this. "If there's a government shutdown rule that benefit Democrats, in 2013, the Republicans shut down the government in October, the month before the election, and that's been credited as a reason from a college victory. Could the same be true in 2023? Could Virginia Democrats secretly want a government shutdown to win back the Senate and take back the House"?
Michael Pope
Secretly wanting a government shutdown? When you think about that, Thomas?
Thomas Bowman
I think that Democrats want government to function as intended. Government employees are people like your mail carrier who process your passports, right? So you can go take your vacation on time. They're not incompetent bureaucrats. They're very dedicated public servants. And my experience with Democrats is there's like. I can't pay with an entirely huge brush here because I'm sure an individual or two secretly hopes for it. After all, that's just how human brains work. But the big picture? No, I don't think Democrats want to shut down. I think they want to see the government operate; I think they're not cheering for the damage it would cause to people are not cheering for damage that it would cause to America's commitments, relationships abroad, jeopardized funding for things like COVID, vaccines, innovation, foreign aid, which is a very important part of our budget, because spending money on foreign aid means you don't have to spend money as much, at least on your military reduces the likelihood for the need for interventions. So, without commentary on the morality of it, it just does. So, no, Democrats are not cheering for a government shutdown. This is very clearly the Republican agenda. And I think Republicans are concerned that it would electorally help Democrats. That's why Speaker McCarthy in the US Congress was willing to push a 45-day continuing resolution, which conveniently moved the funding date for the government to after Virginia's election.
Michael Pope
Yeah. And Congressman Matt Gaetz was so outraged that that vote to avoid a shutdown used Democratic votes that he joined Democrats to house the Speaker. I mean, this mess that's going on in the house right now is horrible.
Thomas Bowman
Well, Republicans have very clearly stated they are ready to burn Matt Gaetz at the stake because Matt Gaetz has legal challenges in federal courts right now. And so, why might Matt Gaetz be mad that the government isn't shutting down? Well, could it be that there's a small contingent of Republicans in very serious legal Jeopardy who are hoping beyond hope that a government shutdown will hamstring the investigators and push the Department of Justice or the FBI to make them unable to do their jobs for an unknown indefinite amount of time? That's a solid hypothesis, given the characters we're talking about here in the story.
Michael Pope
The hypothesis for Matt Gaetz is that he wants the cameras to be on him. On Fox, he wants people to listen and take him seriously; he just desperately needs attention.
Thomas Bowman
Well, maybe he's mad that continuing resolution didn't include funding for, you know, his own access to interns.
Michael Pope
Well, right, well, let's move on to the calendar. Today is Indigenous Peoples Day, formerly known as Columbus Day, but Columbus was an asshole, so he doesn't get a holiday anymore.
Thomas Bowman
And that's actually a bill I helped work on with Delegate Krizek, and that was his idea. Tuesday, October 10th. Is the birthday of Delegate Otto Wachsmann of Suxxex.
Michael Pope
Wednesday, October 11th, is the birthday of delegate Cliff Hayes of Chesapeake.
Thomas Bowman
And Sunday, October 15th. Is the birthday of Senator Steve Newman at Bedford. So happy birthday, y'all.
Michael Pope
Happy Birthday all around. Also, we've got two dates on the calendar this week about the Revolutionary War. So Wednesday, October 11th, is General Casimir Pulaski Day, and Sunday, October 15th, is General Thaddeus Kosciuszko. Good luck to you. I have been to this guy's house in Philadelphia, so I should know how to pronounce this name, but I'm still blanking out at Thaddeus Kosciuszko. I don't know. (Michael attempts to correctly pronounce Kosciuszko)
Thomas Bowman
And pronounce that five times fast.
Michael Pope
Two renowned Polish military figures helped America defeat the British Empire during the Revolutionary War, so they both have statues close to the White House. And it's interesting to remember that when the United States beat the British Empire, they didn't do it alone. They had a lot of international help. One of the countries that aided the United States in the Revolutionary War against the British Empire was Poland. And so we've got these two renowned Polish military figures who have days this week.
Thomas Bowman
You know what, Michael? I knew about the French but not Poland, so I will heat up some perogies.
Michael Pope
Yeah, perogies are all around. Alright, well, that's all for this episode of Pod Virginia.
