Buy, Sell, or Hold? With Delegates Cia Price, Alfonso Lopez, and Marcus Simon
On this week's live-to-tape game show, Michael sits down with Delegates Cia Price, Alfonso Lopez, and Marcus Simon to break down the latest news out of the veto session--the Governor's vetoes and amendments, tell-all memoirs, part-time legislatures, and ice cream drumsticks.
Episode Transcript
Michael Pope
It's time for everybody's favorite game show, Buy, Sell, or Hold. Sadly, we're missing two of our regular members. Sarah Taylor is not with us. Also, majority leader Scott Surovell said he was gonna be here, but we haven't seen him yet. So, in Sarah Taylor's absence, we are joined by Delegate Cia Price. Thanks for joining us.
Cia Price
Hello. Hello. Glad to be here.
Michael Pope
We're so glad to have you here; I know you are a regular listener, so thank you for coming on the podcast. We're also joined by Delegate Marcus Simon.
Marcus Simon
Michael, it's great to be here. There's nothing like finishing up a really long day waiting around for people who won't show up. I'll get over it.
Michael Pope
Ouch, Surovell slam. Of course, we are also joined by the host of today's podcast, Delegate Alfonso Lopez, who is letting us use his office.
Alfonso Lopez
Hello, it's always a pleasure to have the Pod Virginia folks, looking forward to it.
Michael Pope
All right, we are going to start our game show with a topic, and then you guys have an opportunity to Buy, Sell, or Hold. We don't want too many holds, though; there is a social stigma attached to Them. And if Sarah was here, she would add.
Alfonso Lopez
I forget what it is, wah, wah?
Michael Pope
She had a hissing sound. So, we're going to start with our first topic; I'm going to give this one to you, Delegate Cia Price. A May special session to write a budget?
Cia Price
I will buy it because it'll give the governor a chance to get it right this time.
Michael Pope
Short and succinct. Okay, that was quite an answer. Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on to a May special session to write a budget?
Marcus Simon
Well, I am going to buy a special session because it's better than a special session in June. We had a long conversation last year, as you may recall, about whether we had a deadline or not. But it was the it was the off year. And so we actually didn't even get till, I think, a September special session to finally adopt that budget. So May is good. I think, obviously, it's not ideal for local governments. They're trying to write their budgets right now. But I think that predictability that it's coming; we didn't leave town with no idea what the next step was. We made sure we said no, that we've got a date certain, and that we're coming back. We will have new revenue estimates at that time, which is the key. So I think we can do a lot of things we need to do. So I'm a big buy on this special session this time.
Michael Pope
All right. You're correct; the weather in May is much nicer than the weather in the summertime. Delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell, or hold on a special session to craft a budget in May?
Alfonso Lopez
I'm reluctant about this. I really like doing things on time, but I'm also looking forward to finally having the governor at the table to truly negotiate about the best way we can move the Commonwealth forward.
Michael Pope
All right, our next topic will first be Delegate Marcus Simon. And I'm curious about the strategy. If this was a strategy, having a historic number of budget amendments. Typically, we don't see governors throw this many budget amendments into the mix here. So, Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on to this historic number of budget amendments?
Marcus Simon
So, I'm a big sell on 233 budget amendments. Look, the governor has an opportunity to make his mark when he introduces his legacy budget, right. That's his Opportunity to establish priorities. Then, the legislature comes up with a budget, which is really the House's right. The Senate tries to, but we always kill their bill. And Senator Surovell isn't here to defend himself, so I'll pile on. But it's really the role of the House of Delegates, historically, to do the appropriations, and we control the purse. And that's one of the big powers that the legislature has. One of the few checks we have is from one of the executives, who has a lot of authority; we're a part-time legislature here. So, for him to come back with 233 amendments, he had to essentially rewrite the budget through these discrete amendments. The other problem with this number of amendments is that we have a balanced budget requirement in Virginia, and we can't have an unbalanced budget. And it's virtually impossible to take these up one at a time. If you accept the revenue changes but don't take the expenditure changes, you throw them out of balance. So it really was unworkable. And so that's why we had to essentially move them nonspecific and severable and kill the budget, start over, and come back in May. It's a big sell. I don't think the governor was advised properly by whoever told him that was the right strategy to do this.
Michael Pope
He did try to rewrite the budget, or at least huge chunks of it. Delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell, or hold on to this historic number: hundreds of budget amendments.
Alfonso Lopez
I'm a big sell on all of these budget amendments. A lot of the stuff he mentioned to folks or budget amendments he did or even vetoes on bills. You know, you've got some members of our caucus who actually never heard from the governor's staff or the governor. In some cases, there was no negotiation about what you're supposed to do in these situations; it used to be they were involved every step of the way. You're supposed to be working with members, talking about ways you can fix things or address issues that have been raised. And a lot of our caucus didn't see that. And so you can avoid these record number of vetoes and a record number of budget amendments if you're actually involved in the process from the very beginning.
Michael Pope
Delegate Cia Price, buy, sell, or hold on to this historic number of budget amendments.
Cia Price
Yeah, I'm a definite sell, especially when you misname your set of budget amendments as the "Common-Ground budget," and you sell it as a compromise. But there were no Democrats at the table that said, Yes, this is a good idea. So, I like how we handled it today. I like that we're going to go back to what we sent him earlier this year and start with the negotiations. Really looking forward to making sure our democratic priorities are still intact. So, misnaming it and lying about who was at the table is not a good move, and we get to redo it.
Alfonso Lopez
Let me just say one thing, though. I've said this a couple of times now: In my 13 years in the House of Delegates, the budget that came out of the House and our final budget before it went to the governor were, I think, one of the best budgets we've ever put together.
Michael Pope
The backward budget?
Alfonso Lopez
The budget of Opportunity. The budget of Forward Thinking Virginia. But I really think it was an amazing budget that did a lot of what we wanted to do in terms of education, the environment, the social safety net, transportation, and transit. And so I'm very excited about the fact that we're going to be able to go back to and have everybody at the table.
Michael Pope
Alright, our next topic is a campaign topic. So brace yourself here to switch gears for a little bit. The topic is this, posing with questionable flags. There was a recent campaign brouhaha over Eugene Vindman posing with a flag that Virginia adopted in 1861. Some people view it as a Confederate flag. I think the jury is still out on whether or not that was a Confederate flag or not. But it didn't have the exposed breasts. This is kind of ironic; people are mad at him because the flag did not have an exposed breast. Delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell, or hold on posing with questionable flags?
Alfonso Lopez
You know, we've got a pretty rough history in recent Virginia history of elected officials who want to run for statewide or regional office, like Corey Stewart in Prince William County, who we're proud of waving the Confederate battle flag in their photographs and campaign events. So I am a big sell on these kinds of things. And we need to let these flags of traitors run in the dustbin of history.
Michael Pope
You say the flag is of traitors, but I think the documentary evidence of its history predates the Civil War.
Alfonso Lopez
I'm talking mostly about the Confederate battle flag and the Confederate government flag.
Michael Pope
Did you see the flag that Eugene Vindman posed with?
Alfonso Lopez
It was the state flag that was adopted at the beginning of the Confederacy when the Confederate States of America's Congress shared the State Capitol with the Virginia legislature.
Michael Pope
But they had that flag before 1861. They didn't vote to adopt it until 1861, so it actually predates the Civil War.
Alfonso Lopez
Understood.
Michael Pope
There are lots of questionable things here. Also, what were the motivations of the people who presented the flag to Eugene Vindman? Delegate Cia Price, buy, sell, or hold on to candidates for any office posing with a flag you might not know everything about?
Cia Price
I'm a big sell on that. Because in order to represent one of the most diverse districts in the state, it would be great if you don't have a historical conversation on, was it this date of the Confederacy or this? No, let's let's go with something that is in our more recent history of civil rights, of acceptance of tolerance of inclusion. But when you have to go back so far, to when people were still either enslaved through actual chains or being oppressed through regimes and laws that held them back, then you want to move a group of people into the future? I think those are contradictory. And symbols matter; symbols mean things, and we need to know what they exist. I don't know that I've ever had to ask about what a flag meant because I'm very careful about the messages and the pictures that I portray. Especially as a Black woman, but I think, shame one on that and hopefully do better.
Michael Pope
Yeah, I actually used to live in Florida. I covered Florida politics briefly before I moved to Virginia, and they had the flag of Florida before the Civil War. Confederates carried that flag into battle. So, you could consider the flag of Florida to be a Confederate flag as well. Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on posing with questionable flags?
Marcus Simon
So I'm a big sell on having to ask if you have to, right? If you haven't had this conversation, you know, how many angels can we get to dance on that or this pin? Right, you know, is it Confederate or not? You know, I'm a big buy on experienced political candidates that know better than to fall into these kinds of traps, right? Whether the person posing knew or understood what was happening or not, you have to have been around for a while. It's one of the benefits of some experience, right? Do you want me to pose with this? Why? This doesn't look like a regular traditional Virginia flag, and your alarm bells should start to go off when you see things like that. That kind of experience as a candidate also translates into how you're going to perform as an elected official. Do we want somebody who's got a really steep learning curve like this? Or do you want somebody who's going to be able to hit the ground running? So I'm a big sell on posing in front of anything you don't understand. It's gonna spark these conversations because whether you win or lose the argument, the fact you had to have the conversation is a lot a big L.
All right, our next topic will go to Delegate Cia Price. It's editing your speech on the fly on the floor of the House of Delegates. Delegates, Cia Price, should you buy, sell, or hold on to editing your own speech on the fly?
Cia Price
So, I am a huge believer in this, especially when the Speaker tells you to hurry up and be brief while you're speaking. I think the governor sent a lot of amendments that allowed us to sound off on his tone-deafness regarding some of our bills. So, I did have that Opportunity to self-edit today.
Michael Pope
What exactly did you say?
Cia Price
So I may have said, talking crap, talking crap, talking crap, while I was skipping a section. Where I was being honest about what the governor was doing. But you know, huge buy on being honest and transparent.
Michael Pope
Huge buy on being honest and transparent in Virginia, Governor. Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on to editing your own speech while you're giving it.
Marcus Simon
Alfonso stole my line, but they don't have mics. If you didn't have a mic, maybe they didn't hear. I'm a big sell on shortening anything that I have to say. I've been very clear on this podcast that I love nothing more than the sound of my own voice. You can tell from today the length of my answers vs. Delegate Prices, for instance. Clearly, I love to hear myself talk because I would never edit myself. No, I'm gonna buy on being succinct. I think that a big asset for members is being able to read the room and take cues, and so you did a very good job. The Speaker, by the way, is not hard to read. It's a podcast, so we don't use visuals. But his face makes it really clear. Or as she said, when he says after you speak, y'all, we got 55 more of these, we don't have to be this long. Again, we talked about experience in politics and being able to read the room, understand context, and not put yourself in a weird situation. So, if that means I'm going to edit and communicate to the Speaker, I hear you, and I'm modifying my behavior in accordance with your wishes. Always a very good move, so I'm a big buy on that.
Michael Pope
Delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell, or hold on editing your own speech as you're giving it?
Alfonso Lopez
I'm a believer in editing your speech as you give it, especially when you're able to reference something that was just said before for comedic value. But yes, read the room and understand what the needs are because it can only help you with your legislative process and getting your bills passed.
Michael Pope
Alright, our next topic goes first to Delegate Marcus Simon, and I want to ask you about one of your bills: Should we buy, sell, or hold on to zombie mortgages?
Marcus Simon
Okay, so I'm a big sell on the zombie mortgages. Yeah, no, that was a good piece of legislation. I'm a little surprised that I didn't get more pushback from the governor. It's one of these weird bills. Honestly, it was party line in the Senate, but then it passed like 99 to nothing in the House. So even the Republicans were sort of confused about whether they should be for it or against it.
Michael Pope
Is he going to invite you to sign the bill?
Marcus Simon
I probably will be, well, I don't know.
Michael Pope
Also, are you going to do a reenactment of the Michael Jackson thriller dance? You know, zombies.
Marcus Simon
I will not be doing any moonwalking. I think we learned a little bit about that a few years ago. So, I will not be doing any Michael Jackson dancing at all. I'm a big sell on that.
Alfonso Lopez
Explain what zombie mortgages are.
Marcus Simon
Lopez wants to steal my big joke here and have me explain what zombie mortgages are.
Michael Pope
He had a funny line, and now you're making him explain zombie mortgage loans in depth.
Marcus Simon
The bill was to, so what happened is people had their home equity loans, a lot of loans in the second lien position, were charged off, back during the economic downturn. You did a workout, you paid a flat fee, and as far as you were concerned as the homebuyer and consumer, you were told that you no longer have to worry about paying that back. Nobody sent you any bills, nobody tried to collect them or anything, and then you go to sell your house, or a debt buyer buys this debt on the secondary market. And then they realize, hey, there's some equity in this house. Now I'm going to come back; I'm going to try and foreclose and get not only the original loan amount but all the accrued interest for the 10 years nobody was billing you, plus penalties, plus attorneys fees, and take your $15,000 in second debt and turn it into $40,000 or $50,000. And then try to take your home from you.
Michael Pope
one of the rare instances where Marcus Simon, the Virginia Poverty Law Center, and Governor Glenn Youngkin are all on the same page. Delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell, or hold on zombie mortgages?
Alfonso Lopez
I am a sell on these things. But also, this is what I'm very proud of when we talk about work coming out of the General Assembly. It's doing what it's supposed to do, which is protecting folks and making sure that we're able to protect families from being hurt. I'm so proud of this bill, proud of the votes we took, and I'm happy it's past.
Michael Pope
Delegate Cia Price, buy, sell, or hold on the zombie market? Did you also know there's such a thing as zombie cicadas? This is a thing, yeah; apparently, they have STDs. And so they're not on the 17-year cycle; they're on a different cycle. And so we've got zombie cicadas, along with zombie mortgages. Delegate Cia Price, buy, sell, or hold on zombie mortgages?
Cia Price
So, for the cicadas and the mortgages, I'm a big sell. But I am a buy on how we can work together in the citizen legislature. I've learned a lot from Marcus about mortgages, and that's his area of expertise. Learning from our colleagues on their areas of expertise as a citizen legislature is truly great. But it's also great when the Virginia Poverty Law Center agrees with Simon so we can all be on the same page.
Alfonso Lopez
Which is rare.
Cia Price
It is rare, but you know, it's still a learning process. I am proud of the work that we're doing in his subcommittee for Housing and Consumer protection.
Michael Pope
All right, our next topic goes to Delegate Alfonso Lopez. Katie Gorka, as chairwoman of the Fairfax County Republican Committee. The wife of Sebastian Gorka is now the chairwoman of the Fairfax Republican Party. Delegate Alfonso Lopez buy, sell, or hold
Alfonso Lopez
I'm a big sell on that. This is going to be a fascinating election season at the federal level this year, and the fact that you have Miss Gorka as Chair of the Fairfax County Republicans does not bode well for the tone of how we are going to be conducting this election up in Northern Virginia.
Michael Pope
What you say doesn't bode well for the tone, but that might actually end up helping Democrats, perhaps, right? We don't really know how that's gonna play out. Delegate Cia Price, this is not your part of the state. Still, Sebastian Gorka is obviously a very well-known person. His wife is now the chairwoman of the Fairfax County Republican Party, which could influence statewide politics, buy, sell, or hold on. This controversial person is the chairwoman of the Fairfax Republicans?
Cia Price
I'm going to say sell on anyone who does not believe that Biden was elected and that we are supposed to have free and fair elections. That would be any Republican right now that you mentioned. So, I'm just going to go on and say sell on all of that jazz.
Michael Pope
Your answers are all so succinct. Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on to your district's having a Republican Chairwoman, who is the wife of Sebastian Gorka.
Marcus Simon
So I'm gonna surprise you guys; I'm going to be a buy on this. And I'm gonna be careful about how I say this, though. First, I think that the Gorka, unfortunately, is an accurate reflection of what the current Fairfax County Republican Party has become. When I got into politics, Jim Scott, in 1992, won by one vote in a district that is now a 70% democratic district. Fairfax County went for Bob McDonnell. In 2009, it was a red county, and it was purple. Most of the people who were Republicans under the Republican Party have left the republican party since then. And so I don't want to say that Republicans at large are what the Gorkas are, but what's left of the Fairfax County Republican Party these days. The people that follow that and adhere to that line. And so having somebody else elect somebody like that, I think, is revealing. I think voters need to understand who is left. That's electing the leadership and participating in the leadership of the organized Fairfax County Republican Party. It's who they are, and it takes electing Gorka to sort of wake people up to that fact. I'm a buy on that.
Michael Pope
All right. My next two topics here are about books. I'm a big book reader. I like books. And so the next topic we're going to start with, Delegate Cia Price, is the tell-all memoir. We've had a couple tell-all memoirs recently in Virginia politics; most notably, former senator Chap Peterson had a tell-all memoir called Rebel. Bill Leighty had a memoir called Capital Secrets. Delegate Cia Price. The tell-all memoir is whether to buy, sell, or hold.
Cia Price
I mean, if they're telling the truth, I'm a buy. But one of the ones that you named did not accurately reflect something that I was a part of. So I'm a big sell on tell-all lies.
Michael Pope
Are you talking about former senator Chap Peterson?
Cia Price
No, I'm talking about a former leader of the House Democrats when describing what young African American members did during a not-so-prime time for the Democratic Party in 2019. As one of the young African Americans referenced, I can't wait for my tell-all to be able to refute that story.
Michael Pope
I definitely want to talk to you about that tell-all memoir. But can you tell our listeners what you're talking about here?
Cia Price
So then Delegate Toscano was talking about how the Young African Americans misled him in making decisions during what was called the blackface scandal. And there were plenty of us in the room that could say exactly what happened. And so yeah, just looking forward to that moment, but it was not how it was told in that tall all. So I'm a buy if you're telling the truth, but if you should decide to tell lies, you should probably keep my name out of your mouth.
Michael Pope
I confronted him about that on my podcast, and he did not have much to say. I think the answer was something close to homina, homina, homina. Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on to the tell-all memoir?
Marcus Simon
Is there a rule 69 here as someone
Cia Price
That's a hold, right?
Marcus Simon
Close to hold? So, who's keeping a lot of notes for that someday? Tell me all. No, I am actually gonna sell on any of them. Because to tell you these examples, but the example that I remember. We have these caucus calls, right? That is intended to be a confidential conversation, and that confidentiality doesn't expire when you leave the body, right? It doesn't expire when I leave the body. These things are meant to be kept in confidence. And to the extent that we now have to start thinking about and censoring our own internal conversations. Maybe they won't be leaked to Michael Pope and VPM tomorrow, but they put it into their book 3 or 5 years from now. It's a breach of trust, right? And so, yeah, I mean, maybe I'll need the money someday, right? In the present moment, I am a sell-on tell-all novel, reserving the right to perhaps change my answer. Should the advance be large enough.
Michael Pope
You actually raise a really interesting point of discussion for journalists. Journalists have this discussion: If you have something that's off the record, it's off the record. But what happens when the person dies? Is it still off the record when that person is no longer around? That's actually something that's debated in journalism circles. Delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell, or hold on to the tell-all memoir?
Alfonso Lopez
So, I appreciate where my friend Marcus Simon is coming from. And I definitely appreciate where my friend Cia Price is coming from. From a historical perspective, though, if you look at my bookshelf here in this office, you're gonna find dozens of political memoirs. And just from a historical perspective, at least having that unique perspective from that individual is important. And yes, people are going to always quibble about what is true or what is not true. And I think I can back up some of the things that some of my friends have said here about what is true and what's not true. But I will also say that you know, for instance, of Bill Leighty in his book...
Excellent book; our listeners should totally pick it up.
Right, I was there that morning of the Virginia Tech shooting in the Cabinet meeting, and I remember when he got a note and ran out of the room and came back. Another person came in and gave a note to the Secretary of Public Safety, the Secretary Marshall. He got up and ran out of the room. And then 20 minutes later, Bill Leighty comes in, ashen-faced, and says, we have at least 15 people dead at Virginia Tech; we have a massive police situation going on. The FBI is being called, and he points at a few of us. We were in the pod, and I didn't sleep for three days, getting the entire congressional delegation down to Virginia Tech. A few days after the event, the community came together, and we got set up. Now, Senator Kaine, former governor, came on a plane; he was in the Far East to come back and then give that amazing speech he gave off the cuff where he spoke and quoted the Bible and spoke from the heart. But to get Bill Leighty's perspective on that, where he was truly the middle of everything, addressing that incredibly tragic day and tragic moment, that's invaluable. And so I really think from a historical perspective, people who are in these kinds of positions writing about what they saw and felt and did, it's important.
Michael Pope
I agree with you about the historical record. It's great having the tell-all memoir because you add to our knowledge of what was really going on. Delegate Marcus Simon, you've got an addendum.
Marcus Simon
So I have no problem with a tell-some right.
Michael Pope
Tell-some memoir.
Marcus Simon
The behind-the-scenes, the never-before-told story about how some decisions were made. The tell-all to me connotes some of this; I'm gonna give you some salacious stuff that I shouldn't be telling you. But if you buy my book, you'll find it out. And that's the salacious piece of it that I'm gonna sell on. I agree that, at some point, how it happened is a valuable historical resource.
Alfonso Lopez
He needs to say this out loud; he agrees with Delegate Lopez.
Marcus Simon
I may have been persuaded a little bit by something Lopez had to say, but just a little.
Michael Pope
All right, our next topic, which we're going to start with you, Delegate Marcus Simon, is also about books. But it's not about the tell-all memoir; it's about the campaign book. Today, I was handed a copy of Virginia Grit. It was recently published by a candidate for Congress who is one of your colleagues. It's now out; buy, sell, or hold on to the campaign book.
Marcus Simon
I am a good friend of all the candidates running. I mean, I love them all equally; like all my children, they're all the same; I have no preferences and prefer none of them to any of the others. Look, I think that if you've got a story to tell, and it's compelling, and you've got a biography, and you can fill out a book with it, then by all means, I would buy it. I would buy this candidate's book, and I would buy a lot of these books to read. And if you're going to time your book drop in the middle of a campaign. You know, I guess what better time, right? To keep your name ID up. You know, I do think that Delegate Reid has a story worthy of being told, and there's a lot to say about whether he was running for office or not. So for that book, since you named it, I'm a buy. If you're writing a book, look at Tim Kaine, Tim Kaine just released a book, and he's in the little campaign. What is it? Walk, paddle, bike, swim, whatever, all those things. It was a very good book.
Michael Pope
It's kind of a tell-all memoir. Actually, it's more of a tell-all memoir than a campaign book. It's not a campaign book at all.
Marcus Simon
But it was released during his campaign. So I don't know what the difference is between, you know, so look, I'm all for politicians writing books. Again, someday, you know, if I get the right advance, I'm for it.
Michael Pope
Delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell, or hold on to the campaign book?
Alfonso Lopez
You know, I completely agree that everyone who's running for that race, in the 10th and in the 7th, those are all friends of mine. They're all good people. I think they each could bring something unique and special to the seat in Congress. And I also agree, though, that each of them could write a book that I think would be a page-turner. David Reid's story, though, if anybody, that's a fairly amazing story about how he grew up. The difficulties he had to go through and his lifetime of service have been impressive, considering where he came from. So, yeah, the campaign book has been a staple of America for at least the last 60 years. And I don't think it's going away.
Michael Pope
You say staple of America for the last 60 years. Back in the early 1800s, it was the 1830s and 1840s, when Franklin Pierce was running for president, he had a book that was ghostwritten by Nathaniel Hawthorne, the famous author. So, campaign books have been around for a very long time. Delegate Cia Price there. Well, wait, wait, wait. You have to wait for the microphone, Lopez.
Alfonso Lopez
It's fascinating how Franklin Pierce looked like a character out of The Last of the Mohicans; it was crazy.
Michael Pope
He was considered a very attractive man in his era. Delegate Cia Pirce, buy, sell, or hold on Franklin Pierce. Forget about Franklin. The campaign book?
Cia Price
Yes. So, I am going to get my first feedback and go with my first hold. Yeah, that's well-earned. It's fine. I'll live. But no, I haven't read it yet. So, I would like to not judge books by their cover. But no, our colleague definitely has a really compelling story that has, I think, led him to be a really great legislator. I have endorsed in that race. And so it wasn't that I'm going to do a hold here.
Michael Pope
Who do you endorse?
Cia Price
I endorsed that's the one with Briana Sewell. Oh, I'm sorry. See, all of that is just Northern Virginia to us Hampton Roads, folks. But no, I haven't endorsed that. But no, Delegate Reid definitely has a story that, I think, again, has led him to be a very insightful legislator. And I wish them all well, but I do have a pretty extensive reading list already. So, I'm gonna hold on to that one.
Michael Pope
Okay, campaign books are usually really a snooze, actually. So, I've recently read Tim Kaine's new book, which is not a campaign book. We had him on the podcast, and I was researching Tim Kaine. There was a previous book that he had written with Hillary Clinton. That was a campaign book, probably not the best book that was ever written. All right, we're gonna move on to our next topic, which is an Arlington topic. I'm going to start with you, Delegate Alfonso Lopez, regarding ranked-choice voting. The governor has vetoed the bill, which would have given some clarity. The original version of the bill allowed an expansion of what they call the constitutional office as being elected rank choice voting; the sheriff, the Commonwealth's attorney, and the Clerk of Court. That was stripped out of the bill during the General Assembly session. And there was just some clarifying stuff about how you tabulate the results, what you report in the first round, the second round, and the third round of rank choice voting, and all that sort of stuff. Delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell, or hold on rank choice voting?
Alfonso Lopez
I am a buy on rank choice voting. It works really well when you have one person who's going to win.
Michael Pope
Uh oh, but that's not what happened in Arlington.
Alfonso Lopez
Well, let's be clear: it's actually happened several times where we have, you know, different elections.
Michael Pope
Sullivan was an Arlington election, but this is the most recent election.
Alfonso Lopez
I'm not talking about just that; I'm talking about rank choice voting at large; that's what the question was, Michael Pope. Also, it was used to, I don't know, to choose the nominee for governor for the Republican Party, Glenn Youngkin. It was interesting that, you know, he got elected and got the nomination through rank-choice voting but vetoed this bill. And so I also am a big fan of making things very clear to folks when they're voting, we want to get more people voting, not fewer people. We want to make the process clear and fair, and not less clear. And so, I think it's something we need to do. I think we're doing it already pretty well, and I'm a buy.
Michael Pope
You mentioned that Youngkin was selected in a rank-choice election. One of the people I interviewed about the governor's veto of the rank-choice voting Bill was former Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, who said that Youngkin actually had the gravitas to veto the bill because of his personal background on this. Delegate Cia Price, buy, sell, or hold on rank-choice voting.
Cia Price
As chair of the House P & E committee, I will definitely say that I am a buy on Senator VanValkenburg. Bill as amended. I think there is a lot more that we need to do about public education when it comes to actual rank-choice voting. But what this did is, as you said, it's already an option. This was just making sure that there were guardrails and systems in place and being clear on what rank choice voting is. How would the audits be done? All of the things that you need when you have an election. And so I think, unfortunately, this is where politics and parties might have won out. And politics got played instead of policy. It was a good policy that was needed for those options that the localities have, but you know, I'm a buy on his bill.
Michael Pope
But if you're clarifying, you're also endorsing, in a way. I think that's what prompted the veto.
Cia Price
No, I don't think so. So if you're really about policy and the business of making sure that Virginians have clear systems that are available for localities to use, Okay, yeah, you may not agree with a locality choosing it. But if that's an available option, you are the one that the election is happening under your watch. So why wouldn't you want that election to happen in a fair way, where the results could be audited and all of the other things that other elections have. So right now, you still have localities that can choose this without the extra parts that are up to the elections administration. And so again, I think this was more about policy that got taken over by the party.
Michael Pope
Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on ranked-choice elections.
Marcus Simon
So this is really easy. If Cia Price is on one side of an issue, and Ken Cuccinelli is on the other side, I am on the Cia Price side every single time. So I'm a big buy on clarity, right. And so rank choice voting, if you can do it in a way that's clear, understandable, auditable, and to the point where a voter understands what happens to their vote after they cast it right. My big problem with the Arlington thing was if you would ask people, do you understand what a fractional reallocation of your vote is, what happens to your vote, and how it gets split into pieces and redistributed. Nobody could have told you, and I don't care how many brochures and whatever they put out. I understand that Arlington folk are very smart. I was gonna say very sophisticated.
Alfonso Lopez
These are fighting words.
Marcus Simon
I guarantee you, even with that, you had to be a frickin mathematician to understand what the heck was going on there. So, I was a big supporter of the bill and what it was trying to do. I'm a big buy on clarity in rank choice voting. And a big sell on anything that Ken Cuccinelli says or does ever.
Michael Pope
All right, our next topic is actually submitted by my friend Cameron Thompson, who's a local CBS reporter. His topic, which I'm going to give to Delegate Alfonso Lopez, is the charity game of basketball. You guys always have basketball as your charity game. What about if you had a different topic? For example, you could have a different sport, you could have hockey or even pickleball. Delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell, or hold on to basketball as the exclusive charity game that you guys do every year.
Alfonso Lopez
I really do enjoy the basketball game. I'm perfectly willing to make a fool of myself to raise money for this important cause of funding the Massey Cancer Center and addressing cancer research. And helping them do what they do to make lives better for folks across the Commonwealth. I will say, however, that there were serious conversations a few years ago because we have several folks who played college baseball in the House of Delegates; Israel O'Quinn, Cliff Hayes, me, and Kirk Cox at the time had played baseball for years. So there was talk of actually doing something for the Massey Cancer Center by having it be a softball game at an old-time Stadium in nearby Capitol Heights, I think.
Michael Pope
Okay, so that's softball. All right, that's a potential other sport. Delegate Cia Price, buy, sell, or hold on to basketball as the exclusive game that you guys always use for your fundraiser?
Cia Price
Yeah, so I'm gonna go with buy, and it's because it's indoors. And for those of us spectators, it was really easy to get to. But also for the liability, I really need for us to not go any more intense into the actions for potential cardiac events. We have to remember that the average age of the members did come down with the incoming class, but we still need to protect all of our members so that the next day, we can all show up for work. But I'm a big basketball fan. I just hope that we do get some more female members who choose to go out there. But I am a forever fan of basketball from the stands.
Michael Pope
Okay, no pickleball from here. Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on to basketball as the exclusive game that you guys use for your fundraiser every year.
Marcus Simon
So I'm gonna sell because I'm terrible at basketball. I would prefer a 35k or a 10k. I want to foot race, that is my sport. I just put one foot in front of the other and keep going and going and going. Basketball requires eye-hand coordination. I tried to play once, and they watched me for a minute. They put me back on the bench and said no, you're not coming back on this court again. So I'm a big fan of basketball as an exclusive sport because I'm very selfish and it's all about me. And I want a sport that I'm good at, which is running.
I was just gonna say shocker: Marcus is mad at group sports.
Michael Pope
Oh, well said.
Alfonso Lopez
Cia is a lot better than Scott's Surovell.
Michael Pope
All right. So our next topic is going to go to Delegate Cia Price: Is this a full-time legislature? You guys are part-time people; you get a part-time salary. It could be full-time. Other states do full-time. Delegate Cia Price, buy, sell, or hold on to the part-time legislature?
Cia Price
I am forever sell on the part-time legislature because a lot of folks, like I just said, the average age came down. So, a lot of us have basically two full-time jobs. If you represent an area like mine, there's no such thing as a part-time job. So, I have two full-time jobs, but I am also trying to be responsive to our constituents. Then, an election year, like all of that, is a lot, and it's a lot of hours, that we are away from family, where we're not taking care of other things to be happy and whole. I also think that if you've ever been a citizen member who tried to persuade a member during the session, tried to have a conversation, or tried to testify, Like when that whole thing came down about how long Virginia residents have when they're testifying before committees, if we had a full-time legislature, we could have the time to have these long drawn out conversations dive deep into minutiae and details. But unfortunately, when you have 30 days, 45 days, 60 days, and you have three thousand, four thousand bills, you don't have that time to do it. There's a lot of work that's done in the interim behind closed doors. So I think for transparency's sake, for the self-care of legislators, and for Virginians' ability to be even more active in the legislative process, I am a sell on the part-time legislature.
Michael Pope
There is something to be said for having a deadline, though. I mean, you know, you guys have a limited amount of time. You've got a deadline, and you gotta meet it. And as a journalist, I will tell you the deadlines and make stuff happen, right? Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on a part-time legislature.
Marcus Simon
I think we've had this question before, and I'd like to be consistent, but I probably won't be anyway; I am a buy on the part-time legislature. I get it, right? I come from a privileged position here where it's great for me as a partner in a law firm who can sort of set his own hours to come and do this. I can arrange to have constituent meetings in my law office in the middle of the day, and so forth. So it works for me. But I do think there's some value in having people who have other professions and bring other professional experience. If there was a way, I don't want to be on hold because I don't get hissed. But you know, on balance, there are disadvantages, certainly to the short sessions and to the part-time legislature. I think everything that Delegate Price said, as far as the shortcomings are concerned, is true, but arguably, there are drawbacks. The question is, are the things that we get out of it by having physicians, nurse practitioners, physical therapists, and lawyers right. But having people that have real-life experience, be able to come to Richmond for 60 days or 45 days and bring their real-life experiences to bear vs. I guess, I'm a sell on, you know, professional politicians, right? How much time we put into it is a more difficult question to answer. So, I like a citizen legislature. So I'm gonna be here, I'm gonna change the question, I'm going to be a buy on the citizen legislature, I may be a sell on doing it so part-time that you don't have an opportunity to have a real, meaningful conversation.
Michael Pope
I'm gonna sell on you, dumping my question in favor of whatever the hell it is you want to talk about. Delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell, or hold on to the part-time legislature?
Alfonso Lopez
Let me just say that I do this because I adore every second of it. I adore working with my community, working on policy, and caring deeply about making sure that we are getting it right and doing what's right for everybody in Virginia. But I also agree with both my colleagues here and my friends. Because what happens is we don't have a legislature that's truly representative of Virginians. Suppose we don't have every socio-economic class and group. In that case, we don't have more professions, more people from different communities, availing themselves of this Opportunity of trying to get elected because they know that they'll be able to have a life doing it, you know, for the amount of I think we're the shortest legislature in the country. And I think one of the lowest-paying legislators in the country. And so you do this because you want to be here. You want to be involved in political and policy conversations. And so, are there limitations on that? Yes. Are we getting the kind of robust debate that we could be? No. Sometimes, are we getting the kind of perspectives from other parts of Virginia that we could be getting? No. And so I would say that I'm a hold on this.
Michael Pope
All right, we're going to have one more question, which is our fun question to end the game show. We would like to thank Delegate Cia Price for joining our podcast. We could not have the majority leader, and Sarah Taylor was unable to join us, but we are so glad that Cia Price was able to join us. Okay, so this is your final topic. I'm gonna start with Marcus Simon, which is the drumsticks. So, you guys today had the ice cream drumsticks. I have a funny story about the drumsticks. I interviewed Delegate Aaron Rouse about skill games, and he was holding a drumstick in one hand and then talking to me while I was interviewing him about skill games. Somebody came around to take a photo of him holding a drumstick while he was doing this media head. And Aaron Rouse was like, you're not taking a photo of me holding a drumstick, and he basically shut the whole thing down, so he did not want to be photographed holding a drumstick and doing a media hit. But Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on to the drumstick?
Marcus Simon
So I'm a big buy on the drumstick. I am not running for lieutenant governor or anything else. So, I actually had a drumstick in my hand when it was my turn to explain a couple of Senate bills. I thought long and hard about the microphone in one hand and the drumstick in the other. I'm all for the drumstick on camera. I did ultimately put the drumstick down. Again, for what we get paid, for god's sake, the part-time nature. Yeah, we need an unlimited supply of drumsticks in the back to keep us going through these long days. So I'm a big buy on the drumstick.
Michael Pope
They are tasty. And everybody loves them. Delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell, or hold on the drumstick?
Alfonso Lopez
I'm a buy because they have been a part of the cafeteria, and we all pay for the food we get in the back. But what's been great about it is that it's coming directly from the dairy industry, the milk industry in Virginia. And so that's why we're getting these extra ice cream treats.
Michael Pope
Corruption has never tasted so sweet.
Alfonso Lopez
Well, no, but we pay for it. And as I can tell you something, as the chair of Ag and Chesapeake natural resources, we've lost we were losing around two dairy farms a week for a period of 9-10 years in Virginia. And we're helping ensure that our dairy farms are robust and a major part of what's still the biggest economic development and export in the state of our agriculture industries. I think it's important and also quite tasty.
Michael Pope
Quite tasty. Lots of fans of Limeade, apparently here in the General Assembly, which used to be sold at chickens in the old cafeteria on the first floor of the Capitol Building. Delegate Cia Price, buy, sell, or hold on to the drumstick?
Cia Price
So I am going to say buy in moderation. So maybe not the every day that I see my colleagues doing. Because TikTok told me that it doesn't melt and that there are a lot of chemicals in it. If you set it out for a while, it does not melt like regular ice cream.
Michael Pope
What? Explain that.
Cia Price
I did not know this. There's a TikTok video that went super viral where folks are putting out their drumsticks, and they're not melting overnight. So, you might want to look at some of the ingredients. But at the end of the day, some of the food scientists were saying that it's safe, but not a lot of it. So, I would caution that there are other products in our ice cream freezer that are also from Virginia dairy farmers that we can enjoy. But to the lactose-intolerant crew, shout out to y'all; I love ya. I'm the soy ice cream variety, which we, unfortunately, don't have the room just yet. So I'm gonna put in some ads for oat milk or soy milk ice cream next time.
Michael Pope
I'm with you on the soy variety, but I also see the Chairman of House Ag here wants to weigh in on it as we're speaking.
Alfonso Lopez
About all of the milk products that we have, any kind of attack on Virginia ice cream products is wrong, and I'm offended by it. However, the agriculture industry in Virginia is strong and vibrant, and I did not know that. Are you sure this is not AI or some kind of AI film thing? Oh my goodness, because we can always trust TikTok, of course.
Michael Pope
Tik Tok slam. Delegate Marcus Simon wants to weigh in here for this discussion.
Marcus Simon
I do have to say I did not realize until Cia said it, but I was surprised that I put my drumstick down. After even one of our Marcus Simon speeches, I picked it up, and there was no melted ice cream on my desk, so I think there's something to it.
Michael Pope
You have been listening to our game show buy, sell, or hold with Delegate Cia Price, Delegate Marcus Simon, and Delegate Alfonso Lopez, who hosted this game show in his office. So thank you so much for that.
Alfonso Lopez
We miss you, Sarah Taylor, and we miss Scott Surovell.
Michael Pope
We miss you, Sarah Taylor; maybe we miss Scott Surovell.
