Buy, Sell, or Hold? With Sarah Taylor, Delegate Alfonso Lopez, Delegate Marcus Simon, and Senator Scott Surovell
On this week's live-to-tape game show, Michael sits down with Senator Scott Surovell, Delegate Alfonso Lopez, Delegate Marcus Simon, and Alexandria Assistant City Manager Sarah Taylor to get their takes on a variety of hot topics--from last-minute budgets to presidential runs and small nuclear reactors.
Episode Transcript
Michael Pope
I'm Michael Pope. And this is a special edition of Pod Virginia. We've got the All-Stars. We are back in the Pocahontas building on the second floor, and we're using it as our radio studio. So thank you, Delegate Lopez. And so the game is straightforward. I will give you a concept; you can buy, sell, or hold it. So I'll give you an example here. So we've all got the rules. So this would be an example of a bipartisan show of support for Congresswoman Jennifer Wexton after her announcement that she has Parkinson's disease. That's a buy right, a strong buy. Even Garin Shipley had something nice to say about Congresswoman Wexton. So that's even Garin Shipley's doing it by there. Okay, so that's your example. All right, we go to our first item, vetoing a workgroup. Delegate Alfonso Lopez, let's
Alfonso Lopez
Sell. Yeah, that's just; we all know why that workgroup was being run and vetoed.
Michael Pope
Lots of vehicles making lots of noise. Do you think it was vetoed because Governor Youngkin hates Senator Adam Ebbin? That's certainly a possibility. Senator Scott Surovell buy, sell or hold on to the concept of the Governor vetoing a workgroup?
Scott Surovell
I'll sell on that. The Governor was punting on it; the state police never liked the loud exhaust enforcement. They don't want to have any part of it. They've been saying that for years and don't see the point of having a workgroup that won't do anything. And Governor, I'll just come out and say why vetoed it instead of playing that game.
Michael Pope
A follow-up question for you, Senator Surovell, because you spoke about this as the bill is being considered. Does your local government does local government have the authority they need on this issue of going after loud vehicles? They probably don't.
Scott Surovell
But you know, every law enforcement agency I've talked to basically says it's almost impossible to enforce the statute because loud noise is such a subjective thing to measure and decibels or function, how close you are, and whether there's a wall or you're inside or outside. These devices can be turned on and off and whatever. It's tricky to get at, but it's a hot topic. A lot of people are angry about it. I get a lot of constituents angry about the noisy mufflers, so I get word Senator Ebbins is trying to get something done on this.
Michael Pope
Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on the Governor vetoing a workgroup.
Marcus Simon
So I want to be a sell, but it's very on-brand for this Governor not to want to know more about his job. There's all this does; we have a problem that must be solved. We only know some of the answers. Let's study it and get more information to act appropriately. Why would I want to do that? So it's very on-brand for the Governor. And it's a big sell to veto the workgroup, and we're just trying to learn what we need to know to legislate smartly.
Michael Pope
Sarah Taylor, buy, sell or hold on the Governor vetoing a workgroup.
Sarah Graham Taylor
Strong sell on vetoing a workgroup, especially this workgroup; this issue is complicated. It's difficult for localities, and it's difficult for public safety. It does need some additional study and members to stand up and say, Well, if this is a problem, bring a solution. We can only determine the answer once we get everyone to the table. Having a workgroup was an opportunity to do this. And to say that this was too much work for the State Police and that we were putting too much work on their plate that they don't need to deal with this issue. It was lame and a sell on vetoing this workgroup in particular,
Michael Pope
Our next topic is luxury vacations financed by Harlan Crowe, Senator Scott survival buy, sell or hold on luxury vacations financed by your sugar daddy?
Scott Surovell
That's not a good idea. So I'll sell on that. However, it's interesting to note that Mr. Crowe has donated quite a lot of money to the Governor and somebody else to any Governor lieutenant governor. Oh, that well, that's right on brand for her. Yeah, that's not a good idea. Those are what half a billion dollars is a vacation that sounds like Clarence Thomas may have taken, and he claims that that's his personal friend. Yeah, right. We also heard that from Bob McDonnell a few years ago, so I will sell on that concept.
Michael Pope
I was also reminded of the Bob McDonald trial. When you had all that testimony about Johnny Williams financing luxury trips, Oscar de la Renta dresses that sort of thing. His so-called personal friend Delegate Marcus Simon buys, sells, or holds onto luxury vacations financed by Harlan Crowe.
Marcus Simon
So obviously, that's a sell for a couple of reasons. One, there are only two ways to look at this. Suppose you're excellent friends with a Nazi memorabilia collector. In that case, you've got a problem if he's genuinely your good friend, and you know all about him, or I didn't know anything about his fetish with Nazi memorabilia, in which case, he's not a good friend. He's trying to influence you on the court. This is a double sale. Mr. Thomas is Justice Thomas has talked himself into a box on this. I am glad that we defeated a bill today that would have prevented anybody from even protesting him over his awful conduct here in the General Assembly. So big-time sell on that.
Michael Pope
Sarah Taylor, buy, sell or hold onto luxury vacations financed by your wealthy contributors.
Sarah Graham Taylor
So I need some clarification. Are these specifically vacations financed by Nazi memorabilia fetishes? Or is it just like an excellent sugar daddy friend who wants to send you to Telluride? Like I need a little bit of clarification here,
Michael Pope
I'm going to go with the latter one for purposes of discussion. So it doesn't have to be the Nazi memorabilia guy. It could be Johnny Williams.
Sarah Graham Taylor
So as a non-elected official here in the room, I would not oppose somebody sending me on a luxury vacation. But it would be terrible if I were elected official or someone with some influence or power. So I will sell the big-picture concept of trying to influence the influential through fancy vacations and money. So yes,
Delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell or hold on luxury vacations financed by your wealthy contributors?
Alfonso Lopez
As an elected official and as someone who doesn't like ethically challenged situations, I have to tell you, this is the biggest sell I've heard of in years. And the fact that this is not a nonstarter from the get-go for these folks is mind-numbing.
Justice Thomas should have known he shouldn't have gone on the luxury vacation.
Trips all around the globe, hopping around the world in somebody's private jet and yachts, is a bad look. And a Supreme Court justice should know better.
Michael Pope
All right, our next item is pushing against the caboose budget deadline. Delegate Marcus Simon buy, sell or hold on waiting until the last minute to pass a budget?
Marcus Simon
So I am a big buyer of waiting until the last minute because it gives the Governor no time to make amendments. Now. We saw that last year. We did it in June. And the Governor was faced with a do I shut down the government so that I can try and get my amendments in or do I sign with the legislature sent me so being a big advocate for, you know, an assertive legislature. I like waiting until the last minute, and trying to him in the Governor was an option now. This year, it's not a deadline. And that's you go last year, but you make your point that I get to go first, I get to get all the goods points out, and you guys are like boggle your whoever's left. So anyway, I'm for that as a legislature this year because we do a two-year budget; whatever we come up with, there is no deadline for this.
Michael Pope
Sarah Taylor, buy, sell or hold on waiting for that June 30 Semi deadline on the caboose budget.
Sarah Graham Taylor
So any other year, I would be a sell on this, as a locality that relies on state funding for programs and projects. It will be challenging if this pushes past days because we adopted our budget in May. We've got our life. We got our act together. We put our stuff together, got it, know how to do the math and have our budget. And so not knowing what's coming from the state is a challenge this year. There needs to be more in the budget. It is very significant regarding the funding for the city of Alexandria and localities; in general, there is a little bit of shortfall when it comes to some aging programs that we have some concerns about, but we hope it will be resolved. But this year, I'll let the folks here in the legislature have their fun with the Governor and see how this all plays out as we get closer to the end of June. You said there are minor things in the Alexandria budget, but there are in the proposed budget you're considering. Alexandria has $30,000 for renaming Confederate streets, so we'll watch for that.
Michael Pope
Delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell or hold on waiting until the last minute for this Caboose budget.
Alfonso Lopez
You know, I appreciate where Sarah is coming from in terms of localities, but I'm a big sell on this. There's a lot in this budget that people need to know where the money is. They need to know this a while ago because their social safety net issues, their education issues, there's, you know, funding for, you know, something as minor as something I care about AP tests for IB exams and helping pay for that for kids who are free reduced lunch. And so these exams happen at a specific time to occur in May, and it wouldn't be great if we could pay for them sooner rather than later. People know about a quarter of next year. And the fact is that there's a lot that uncertainty is a bad thing. I want certainty. But the fact that the Governor is trying to sort of play this game of chicken with the legislature over a billion plus tax cuts for an industry that are not necessary shows you where his real heart is,
Michael Pope
Senator Scott, survive, buy, sell, or hold on to this idea of waiting for June 30 to resolve this Caboose budget.
Scott Surovell
You know, Mike, when I prepare my clients for cross-examination and deposition or trial, I always tell them to listen carefully to the question and all the assumptions built in. Before they answer a yes, no question, because if the premises are wrong, they're getting painted into a corner, and there is no deadline. June 30 has nothing to do with this. We have already passed a budget to your budget. And so we will get a budget whenever the Senate feels like it.
Michael Pope
There would be no Caboose budget after June 30. Right. So if June 30 comes and goes, would you revert to the original budget?
Marcus Simon
Yeah, no, no, we have it to your budget. And that's budget that applies until June 30, 2024.
Michael Pope
My point is not that Virginia would shut down, and you wouldn't have a budget. You would have the existing budget that's already been passed. My point was June 30 is the last time to take new action.
Marcus Simon
No, no, we can do it now. We can amend this budget in July, August, October, and even December if we want to.
Michael Pope
Okay, well, that was a stupid question. Let's move on to our next topic, then. Stuff like later. Yeah, November. That's a different question. Our next subject, budget-related secret, closed-door conference committees that are not open to the public or the press, Sarah Taylor, buy, sell, or hold on to this ridiculous secrecy these people like to engage in.
Sarah Graham Taylor
So while I am a big fan of openness and transparency and public inputs, and all the things that I appreciate about the way the Virginia General Assembly does business, in their committee structure and process, I do understand that there is a certain amount of work that needs to be done behind closed doors, that there are conversations that need to be had that there are things that need to be hashed out. And while I don't necessarily believe that all of these meetings must be secret behind closed doors, negotiations where a budget magically appears out of the ether. Poof, George Barker arrives with a budget, you know, in his on a silver platter. I do understand the need for some of the work that goes on in secret closed-door conference committees. So Oh, yes, I'm buy. But I would like to hold if you wouldn't call me a woose.
Michael Pope
Delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell, or hold on secret, closed-door conference committees that are not open to the public and not open to the press.
Alfonso Lopez
I'm a transparent person. I am open to ensuring that everything is available and that people can see and be involved in their government and how it works. However, you're talking about a logistical nightmare regarding scheduling rooms for these things to happen.
Michael Pope
When FOIA first passed, people said it would be a logistical nightmare to respond to FOIA requests.
Alfonso Lopez
Well, that's different because that's forwarding paper, and you've got the internet and can send emails and things. There are rooms in a place that has a few spaces. And you're trying to schedule meetings that have, you know, internet hookups. And yes, okay, we could have a much larger facility and a much larger building that has a lot of small rooms for these, these public meetings to happen and but, you know, I completely respect where Sarah is coming from, and that some of it, you know, has to sort of happen on the fly, realistically, but at the same time, I do want to have as much transparency as possible. So your answer is I'm an I'm a hold as well.
Michael Pope
Ladies and gentlemen, we've added a new twist to the game: a social stigma is attached to hold, so that's the sound effect you just heard. Is everybody in the room, all the All Stars giving delegate Alfonso Lopez the incorrect sound effect for his weak answer on holding on secret closed-door Conference Committee? Senator Scott Suorvell buy, sells, or holds on secret closed-door conference committees.
Scott Surovell
Yeah, I'm strong on that. Listen, you can't handle it, the true Pope. We live in a world that has laws, those laws written by men with pins. No. No, listen, you need to understand what these Congress committees are. Half the time, it's like somebody sends a text. Do you know? Are you okay with that? Or whatever? Yeah, sure. We'd never leave if we had to do 300 more meetings for conference committees. We'd always need to get this work done. Part of the way we get it done is we do it quickly. And you know, when those conference reports are flying around, we'll do it over in a corner. In the rotunda, we'll do it, you know, in a corner in the old House Chamber, it happens fast sometimes, and many of the discussions have already been had. So there's pretty rare a lot of new surprises or new information that needs a lot of public vetting and a conference report. Often not always, but often.
Michael Pope
A lot of people would disagree with you, Senator Surovell. When you think about the redistricting amendment where a lot of stuff came out of that conference committee, Delegate Marcus Simon buy, sell, or hold on secret closed-door conference committees that are not open to the press and not open to the public.
Marcus Simon
So I will buy it, which will surprise you. And I don't think I know. The easy answer is to say, Sal, and say; transparency is good for everything. But as a practical matter, unless you do something different with the way we do the legislature, which is, I think, a bigger question. And if you want us to have full-time legislation that has all its drawbacks, but given the way we have a citizen legislature that meets for a limited amount of time. And as Scott was, as Senator Surovell was saying, then you know, if you look at these conference reports, at least two-thirds, say the conference committee recommends that the House version be approved, or the Senate version be approved. And that's been heard. And it's mean, done, it's rarely something completely different. And we have rules on germaneness and things like that. So if it goes beyond the scope of what was initially out there. So coming to that conclusion at the end is necessarily a good thing. And I'll tell you, when we're in the majority, sometimes conference reports get hurt on the floor. So eventually, they're on the floor and only sometimes pass. And I learned that harsh lesson. And we got a bunch of our folks when we had to Fonzo whip people to vote for bills they didn't like, and the Congress would fail in the Senate where we put all that political capital because God doesn't care for them to fail. So it's not as opaque a process, and there are opportunities. Again, at some point, the report will be discussed on the floor in front of the press, the public, and everybody, and we'll have an opportunity to vote no if they don't like the result and send it back for more work. So contrary to how the leading question was phrased, I'm going by it wasn't leading questions.
Michael Pope
It was the leading question. And this room, despite being an all-star panel, gets a failing grade on transparency. Still, we will move on to our next topic here, which is fair well, addresses delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell or hold on these farewell addresses that go on and on and on and on. And then people chime in to agree with a farewell address, delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell, or hold on farewell addresses to the General Assembly.
Alfonso Lopez
Buy. I mean, there are people like Ken Plum, who've been in this House of Delegates since 19, are actually for 44 years, who have done amazing things throughout their careers, who have seen Virginia change from, you know, a dramatically and he's gone through how many governors how many speakers and a lot of the things that he fought for throughout his career, he has seen come to pass. And so someone like that, you know, should be allowed to go on and have that valedictory address. What I find fascinating sometimes is when people serve for much less and go on for two and a half times longer than someone like Ken Plum, but I also people, people don't understand that we create excellent relationships in this body. And it's essential that we, you know, be able to honor our friends. Because people don't see, you know, with the transparency issues that you're talking about, the close relationships are developed across the aisle to try to get to yes on specific pieces of legislation and to try to move the ball forward in terms of public policy and the Commonwealth and try to make lives better for folks. And you know, it's a family, although Marcus Simon should not be part of that family.
Michael Pope
Some of those addresses are tear-jerkers, and you see the human moments and then others, like invoke Robert E Lee as a hero, so I'm not sure, But they're all in that in that venue that you're talking about. Senator Scott Surovell. The Senate still needs to have its farewell addresses. You decided to hold those for when you come back for some special session; they all did. The House on the House side. We heard all the final farewell addresses—this week in the Senate. We have yet to listen to a lot of these.
Scott Surovell
First of all, I will buy but Buy secondly, yeah, it was a weird day, I expected to get some farewell dresses, and we didn't get any; we only had so far really Saslaw about thinking about a month and a half ago. And he was way shorter than a junior delegate in the House of Delegates. But what Lopez says is right; I don't think anybody realizes how close we are, especially across the aisle. We all fight all the time. And we all hate each other. That's not the case at all. And so those farewells just helped spotlight that for the public. I will say, though, that to me, what was interesting about today is that I think part of the reason the Senate did not have any farewell addresses is that everybody assumed we're going to come back to do a budget, which I didn't assume. But apparently, the House of Delegates thought we wouldn't be sending them a budget; they want to get all their farewell addresses out of the way. So I need to find out what that says about the broader budget negotiation. But the two chambers must be on different pages about whether we're getting a budget.
Michael Pope
So you're bursting the bubble of our listeners who think the House and Senate hate each other to benefit our listeners who can't see the room. Senator Surovell and Delegate Simon are wearing identical socks. I don't know what's up with that Marcus, Simon, Marcus Simon, buy, sell or hold on to these farewell addresses.
Marcus Simon
So I want to go ahead and say buy. And I'm going to tell you that as a fan of transparency, you should be a buy because this is when these folks have no fucks left to give out that helps the ratings. We can have an explicit label on this episode. All right. So there's one moment like I don't. Everything you say on the floor is calculated, right? You always have to be concerned about who you're offending. You know who you're not and how this will affect your following bills. It would help if you always were measured for your next election until you're about to retire. Like, know what, let it rip. And occasionally, you get those let it rip kinds of speeches. They're better when they're funny. I propose though I'm going to buy. I would love to see a rule where you have to prorate the length of your speech based on the size of your service. So if Ken Plum starts with 44 years, it goes for however long he goes, everybody else gets to, you know, take their in proportion, however long they've served so that, you know, freshman delegates don't get to do an hour-long speech,
Michael Pope
Mike Mullen had a great speech, and Will Wampler had a great speech. I didn't catch all of them. But Sarah Taylor, buy, sell or hold on to these super sweet farewell addresses.
Sarah Graham Taylor
So I'm going to buy good farewell speeches, and I'm going to sell bad farewell speeches, and I'm going to explain the difference between good and evil. The good farewell speech is where I find out something about that member I didn't know, a relationship, something that brought them here, something that drives the work that keeps them coming back, or something critical to their choice to leave the body. I think those speeches are compelling, and are you lay that foundation and spread that, that that that idea that people choose to be here. They have reasons for being here, and then they decide to leave bad speeches, or where I feel like they are parroting talking points and potentially laying the foundation for their next steps in the political realm or the business realm or, you know, whatever their long game is in their exit from the General Assembly because again, exiting the general assembly here is a choice—and coming from a place that was an election. It's a choice. When people give speeches, they are generally a choice—coming from a place with term limits. Your departure from the General Assembly was not a choice. And so learning about those choices and hearing how these speeches unpack them and their subsequent choices. I think for me, strong buy on good lessons, strong sell on week continuing political foundation laying speeches,
Alfonso Lopez
also, the comments from their colleagues who were staying with Jay left, which to give a heartfelt speech today, because of Jeff Campbell going, was a really lovely speech.
Michael Pope
Our next topic is running for PresidentPresident while being Governor. I will note there's only one example of this. It's Doug Wilder. Senator Scott survived to buy, sell or hold on running for PresidentPresident while Governor of Virginia.
Scott Surovell
Yeah, that's not a good idea. Oh, can I sell that short? I'll sell. When Doug Wilder was done, I read that his approval rating was 17%. By the time he pulled the plug on his ambitions there, it was never a good idea. Mark Warner toyed with that for a little bit. What people don't realize is that what happens in Virginia is because our Governor's race is right after the presidential race. Our Governor's race is often a reaction to what happened in the presidential race. And, then, because nothing else is happening in America, the news media looks around and says, Look what just happened in Virginia. It's a new trend. It's a new thing. And then all of a sudden, with Virginia person is some new thing. And the Governor doesn't quite understand he's, no offense, not that special. And, this, I don't think this presidential thing will turn out very well for him. He's not hitting 1% of the polls yet. So if he wants to keep at it, and you know, keep bringing his approval rating down, I'm cool.
Michael Pope
So delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on Virginia's Governor running for PresidentPresident.
Marcus Simon
All right. So in the present tense, the way this question was put out, I'm going to say strong buy go for a clan, keep it up. Don't stop what you're doing. Go to Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina, and don't listen to Surovell. You are special. Touched by God. I mean, because the polling tells us that everybody thinks you should run well, maybe it doesn't say that. In the present tense, I'm a strong buy, Glenn. Keep it up, run, run, run. You can do it. You can do it.
Michael Pope
Sarah Taylor, buy, sell or hold on the Governor of Virginia being Governor while simultaneously running for President of the United States of America.
Sarah Graham Taylor
So I'm going to be a buy on this. And I'm going to be a buy on it generally, not just about this Governor because this is a thing that happens and could happen more regularly. And I'm going to be a strong buy. Because I think running for PresidentPresident while being Governor does pull the curtain back a little bit on who you are, why you're making the choices you're making and why you're saying what you're saying, why you're you're amending things and vetoing things and saying things and, and proposing legislation that never makes it to actual legislation. It pulls the curtain back and lays bare what's being done. And so I think for the General Assembly, that transparency and openness and, you know, pulling back the curtain is not bad. So I'm gonna say I'm strong on running for PresidentPresident while you're Governor. However, I think 1% is my favorite milk in this specific case, but perhaps not the best when discussing presidential polling.
Michael Pope
I did not put milk in my rundown here, but I probably should have Delegate Alfonso Lopez buy, sell or hold on Virginia's Governor running for PresidentPresident.
Alfonso Lopez
I don't think he's running for PresidentPresident think he's running for vice president. I think everybody sort of understands he's trying to run for vice president. But also, I gotta tell you, Sarah is so right. Because what he's doing is he's putting forward legislative ideas. I don't know, like China farmland and, like, you know, like to try to give himself a foreign policy pedigree. We all know why he's doing certain things that he's doing. We also know that, you know, it's not going well. And so I guess I am a, I'd say, a buy if this was a two-term governor, but I'm a cell in the current status of things.
Michael Pope
Moving on to our next topic. This one is going to hit some of you. Leadership coups, Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell or hold on leadership coups?
Marcus Simon
Yeah, great. I get to be first this time. I am going to hold. It's disruptive for a variety of reasons. It's bad messaging. It creates them in disarray, whether it's Dems or Republicans, when you do it. And it doesn't mean to say that good things can't come out of them and that they occasionally have a reason; things happen for a reason. Hopefully, people that are the victims of the coup go on to bigger, better things and have an upper free now to do do do things that they want to do. But yeah, you know what, I gotta say that I'm whipping out here and just sort of saying hold, I've got plenty of people that I still remember the legislature with a future life in politics have many fucks left to give, and so I'm going to just sell.
Michael Pope
Sarah, Sara Taylor, buy, sell, or hold on dumping your caucus leader. Um,
Sarah Graham Taylor
I'm gonna buy it. I'm gonna go because sort of the same way that reason that I like primaries, I think they provide accountability. I think they require people to prove themselves. They require you to show up and have you done things and have results, allowing you to either survive and advance or lose and go home. And so I think that an unsuccessful leadership coup is damaging. I think successful leadership coups can be damaging. But I think in the long run, even though coup a is a negative word, and I think you've led us in that direction, loaded question well done.
Michael Pope
I only asked loaded questions,
Sarah Graham Taylor
woke media. But I think that there is a level of prove-yourself-show-up accountability that comes with a leadership challenge.
Michael Pope
Okay, Delegate Alfonso Lopez buy, sell or hold on leadership coups?
Alfonso Lopez
Well, when Republicans are killing their leadership, I think it's a wonderful thing because, you know, it just shows that they're stable. They're moving forward in a unified way. No, I listen, I'm, I'm holding on to this as well. You know, the fact is that there are a lot of talented people in our caucus and the Senate Caucus and the Republican caucus. And so, you know, sometimes people feel like they need to move forward and sort of change the narrative and try to move forward. Sometimes it's founded on good issues. Sometimes it's not founded on good issues, or there's less understanding of what is happening. But, you know, these kinds of things are healthy. And it's part of the evolution of a party.
Michael Pope
Interesting that the leadership coos, at least in the Virginia General Assembly in the last 50 years, always happen in the minority. They never happened in the majority caucus. Senator Scott Surovell, buy, sell, or hold on dumping your caucus leader to perhaps get somebody better in there.
Scott Surovell
I don't like this whole buy-hold-or-sell framework anymore.
Michael Pope
You're a sell on your a sell on my game show.
Scott Surovell
It sounds like we have a Rule 36 button in my channel. But it's interesting to me. First of all, I was going to point out what you just said, Michael, which is that these things only happen in the minority, probably because they happen, if they ever happened to the majority, be extraordinarily disruptive and problematic. And there are many reasons why it doesn't happen, but the majority. But I would just note that in the coup that I lead, these two guys are with me, I think, unless they're now telling me they were not by their ambivalence about this today. But in any event, Sarah is right about the benefits it brings. There needs to be accountability. People can't just sit still thinking they've got it in the bag. You must always work hard to earn your job, learn your leadership position, and fight for your caucus. And if a coup is never possible, then I think people can get complacent and lazy and not do their job. So you know, there's a place for it, I think, but you're right. It never happened. Some people in the majority never do.
Marcus Simon
That sounds like a buy with a little bit of a hedge in case he becomes a leader sometimes.
Michael Pope
All right. Moving on to our next topic. Oh, this is a good one. I like this. Sara Taylor, you're the first one on this buy, sell, or hold on odd-year elections.
Sarah Graham Taylor
I'm a buyer of odd-year elections. I like that the elections for the general assembly are not inherently tied to the national narrative. And while it is true that because they come after a presidential year, they're often a knee-jerk reaction to whatever just happened. I appreciate that they have their own space and existence, that it forces members and candidates to get out and turn out their own voters and not rely on the coattails of congressional and presidential year candidates and their driving of turnout. So I'm a buyer on your elections and that they allow you your own electoral space, but they also force you as a candidate or member to do the work to turn out your voters to get your focus to the polls.
Michael Pope
All right. Let's ask some people who have run odd-year elections, delegate Alfonso Lopez, to buy, sell or hold an odd-year election.
Alfonso Lopez
Listen, I'm considering what's going on at the national level. Having national elections and moving our elections to the even years would be very good for the Democrats across the Commonwealth. That being said, I'm a buyer of odd-year elections, which means we Get the attention. There are four major elections across the country in odd years. It's New Jersey's legislature. It's the mayor of Los Angeles, Chicago, and us. And we're the only battleground. So we get more time, attention from the National folks, and money. And also, you know, some of the best staff from around the country come to our elections. And so we could have our focused conversation about where we want to go. Is it influenced a little bit too much by sort of the national Zeitgeist post-presidential election? Is there a problem sometimes with that, sort of being the opposite of what the President'sPresident's party might be? Or what's going on in Congress? Yes. But I think there are benefits to it as well. If I was nakedly political, and I said, we just want to win elections. And I think we would make it even easier. But I think there's a lot of buy love for the audio lessons as well.
Michael Pope
I'm anticipating some naked partisanship in our panel from Marcus Simon. But first, we have to get to Senator Scott Surovell, buy, sell, or hold on odd-year elections.
Scott Surovell
I don't. I mean, I think there are two sides to it. But I mean, I think net-net, I'd probably favor sell. I mean, I just think it's very inefficient and expensive. And I don't know why we have to waste all this money on elections every year when we could just do it every other year. I think that's what most people are used to. And voters kind of lose, lose focus when they have to do this every single year. And I think focusing on your butt every two years is probably a better way to go. But I will say that one of the side benefits of having this way is that we always have the United States Congress shut the government down a few times for us in our election, which seems to help things out. And we get, although 2009 didn't go so well. So it's, it kind of cuts both ways. Right? So you know, I just think net, though I don't, we need to change. But changing these would be extraordinarily hard. And I don't see any movement to do that anytime soon.
Michael Pope
The answers I heard from Sarah Taylor and delegate Lopez, you could replace what you're talking about with the May elections for city council and have the same answer. Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on odd-year elections,
Marcus Simon
you have to sell on year elections. They're awful. I mean, we maintain them for years and years because it helped folks like the Bryd machine. And by the way, there's a book I think that people combined about the Bryd machine thing.
Michael Pope
Ding, ding, ding.
Marcus Simon
So when he does sound effects, but no, look, the fact is, if we had had elections for the House of Delegates in 2020, with Donald Trump and Joe Biden on the ballot, we'd have 60 seats in the House of Delegates right now, for Democrats, you know, we'd have a strong majority in the House instead of being down, you know, 52 to 48, we wouldn't have gotten Younkin as Governor. So our trans kids would be safe from harassment and bullying, and we wouldn't have to worry about women's reproductive health. We wouldn't have to worry about people repealing access, rebuilding access to the ballot box, and getting rid of drop boxes and things like that. So yes, the extra money is nice. Yes, the extra talent is nice. Yes, it's nice to feel special, right? Like Governor Youngkin's dogs and years. But the fact is, we will be so much better off as a state if more people would participate. And yes, we wouldn't be the stars of the show. Right? We'd have to step aside a little bit. But it would be much better for democracy for Virginia and the policies that most people care about if we had even your election. So it says values are all wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Alfonso Lopez
The man on the redistricting commission is trying to explain to us that, Wow, would it be better? Oh, my goodness gracious.
Michael Pope
Well, as a journalist, I will say journalists love their actions. All right, moving on to our next topic. This one might be getting into the weeds a bit, CBD to THC ratio, delegate, Alfonso Lopez buys, sell or hold on creating a ratio for CBD to THC instead of a weight-based measurement for marijuana.
Alfonso Lopez
I'm a sell. I, you know, understand the concern that some families have. But I also understand that you know what, Don Adams on the floor of the House delegates delegate Don Adams in the Florida House of Delegates today was incredible, you know, it was brilliant, because she was explaining from an actual medical perspective. You know, you can have 1000 milligrams in a Tylenol capsule, 100 500 milligrams, and 250 milligrams. It's not about, I mean, it's being sold in a very different way. That 25 to one-ratio is a bad policy decision. We need to be based on science, not on this sort of made-up ratio.
Michael Pope
Senator Scott Suorvell buys, sells, or holds on to this idea of having a ratio instead of a weight-based measurement, the ratio being CBD to THC.
Scott Surovell
I sell on the whole concept, the whole construct, the whole bill, all of that. It was all idiotic. First of all, I don't think anybody fully understands science yet. I read the other day that CBD. If you take it in conjunction with THC, it limits your metabolism of THC. So it gives you a bigger high longer than you would otherwise take the same amount of THC. And I'm unsure if we fully appreciate how all these things interplay. Because we're in a brave new world where people are starting to study marijuana, they realize it's not some horrible, like, you know, taboo thing. So, first of all, there's that. But beyond all that this, this whole situation we're in is because the Governor won't step up and lead. What we need to do is come up with a retail cannabis system. And the Governor publicly says it needs to be. We need to figure it out privately. He tells Republicans. He has no interest in signing a bill. And so right now, we have this idiotic stalemate. And the solution that they came up with in this session was to let one Department regulate hemp, and the Department of Agriculture, in a completely separate authority, regulate marijuana. Even though the two products Delta 8 marijuana, synthetic marijuana, and marijuana operate on your brain the same, they can be regulated by two bodies. It doesn't make any damn sense. And we're creating a mess that we'll probably have to clean up in about three years. And this 25-to-one thing is a big part of it. So the whole thing has been extremely frustrating for me. And so I'm not a fan.
Michael Pope
So Senator Surovel is a cell. I will point out nobody has a license to sell at this point. Right? So delegate Marcus Simon to buy, sell, or hold on to this ratio idea of CBD to THC.
Scott Surovell
Yeah, sell. This is a stupid idea. Everything center circle says exactly right. They don't want to do they don't use the market, and this is they did another thing with the CBD, with the hemp-based products, they tried to get rid of those. Again, the better way to do that would be to create a regulated adult-use market. And then they realized that they screwed up, right. So the bill they passed screwed everything out for one particular very popular constituent of Todd Gilbert, some others who's been here, he's a very sympathetic figure. And then they tried to come back and back off what they had done and craft a solution. And so this ratio thing they came up with, as a way to solve this problem for one particular person I have a great deal of sympathy for. And I think this person who suffers from epilepsy should have access to the medicine she needs to do well. But this all got screwed up from the beginning by their refusal to deal with the adult-use market, trying to come up with this half-baked solution. Realizing they'd screwed that up, and then coming up with this, this new ratio thing is their escape valve for that. So this is a big mess,
Michael Pope
Big sell, big sell from delegate Marcus Simon Sara Taylor, buy, sell or hold on this ratio concept,
Sarah Graham Taylor
also a strong sell on this whole deal. I think they're all right. This is just another, you know, end-run or side version of trying to fix a problem that's created really by just not creating a regulated adult-use market. If they would just do that, all of these things would be folded under those under that process. But as far as the ratios go, I think if this is intended to be dealt with as medicine, if this is truly medicinal, we see medicine in milligrams and weight and not in ratios. And so I think creating this whole other way you look at medicine, overcomplicate something that is already very complicated, and by overcomplicating it, they're making it less accessible, less useful, and less able for people to use it in the same way that they would use other medicines. And so that's for lots of reasons why I think I'm a strong sell on this. This issue.
Marcus Simon
I agree with both Senator Surovell and Delegate Lopez. The Sound gave me a dirty look. I didn't acknowledge I agreed with both of them.
Alfonso Lopez
What I'm concerned about is I love governors who want to govern Virginia. I love governors who want to work and get in the weeds in Virginia and not focus on what the polling data means for their national run. And so I'd love it if they got in the weeds on this issue and tried to get to a solution instead of avoiding it because it might hurt their overall polling numbers.
Michael Pope
Our next one is tactical here, so brace yourself, nuclear power from small modular reactors, Senator Scott Surovell, buy, sell, or hold on to nuclear power from SMRs?
Scott Surovell
What in the world? Are you bringing this up today? Okay? It's complicated, man. Sell on it as it's currently being packaged. I would say, first of all, we have plenty of SMRs in this country. They sit in the back of nuclear subs and aircraft carriers, the power ships worldwide. They're used all over the place. They just have never been used like to power us here in Virginia. And the problem is, we have no idea what it will cost. And you know, what we're now, our ratepayers will be exposed. And so until we have a better idea, I think it's important to pump the brakes on it. I mean, I tried to write to my secret conference committee, a
Michael Pope
a secret closed-door conference committee,
Scott Surovell
a bill that there are multiple versions of a bill that everybody could swallow, but I couldn't. I couldn't figure out a way to get compromised on it. And because, you know, the utilities wanted to have a blank check. And then the others didn't want to give them a blank check. And it's not ready for primetime yet. But hopefully, with the brand new reconstituted commission on electrical utility regulation that these gentlemen voted for with me today, we will have a lot of new stuff that can study these kinds of concepts in full transparency out in public when people like you can report on it. Then we can come up with a good solid policy recommendation instead of having to do it in our secret conference committee where nobody can see us and always dark night in the corner of the Capitol. Yeah. All right, nuclear power is kinda controversial.
Michael Pope
Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on to these small modular reactors.
Marcus Simon
So I think I am a sell for now. I don't think we're quite ready for it. I think a lot of this is I get them as clean against this carbon-free. It's looking for something that's anti-woke, right? I mean, like, what's wrong with solar and wind? What's wrong with a lot of the clean energy technologies that we have? Now? Why do you have to cope with something different just because, you know, the other things are considered to work? So, you know, there may be potential for that it may be something worth pursuing. I'm a big advocate of pursuing our proven technologies and investing in offshore wind, solar, and other green energy technologies. And we can get to the bio, whatever that the bio the Small Modular things, whatever they called, later, smartarse, that.
Michael Pope
the cynical way of looking at the governor's and Republican support for nuclear power is that it just forestalls wind and solar power. And that's a cynical way of looking at things which Sarah Taylor is not at all cynical Sara Taylor, buy, sell, or hold on to nuclear power from small modular reactors.
Sarah Graham Taylor
Never a cynic. Me never. So I am a, like, Delegate Simon. I'm going to be a cell for now, which feels kind of like a hold light. But I will say I will call it a sale for now. So I think it is an opportunity. But I don't know that it's an opportunity today. And I know that keeps getting touted as an opportunity for parts of this country where it used to be coal fields. And it's a way to, you know, to do power in places where, where there was no coal energy in the past. But my light reading on this also says that it's not that clean and creates much more nuclear waste than your traditional nuclear reactors. And so the Aneurin potential unintended consequences of this are, I don't think, something that we have our brains wrapped around entirely. And so, while in concept, this feels like an opportunity, I don't know if it's an opportunity for today, and I think the opportunity is to invest in the things that we know work and research the things that we aren't sure about. And so let's stick with wind and solar and thermal NGO and all these other things and, and, and plan for nuclear down the road delegate,
Michael Pope
Alfonso Lopez buys, sells, or holds on to nuclear power from small modular reactors.
Alfonso Lopez
SMRs are fascinating in concept, but that's what they're out of right now their concept. Our real issue is that for decades now, we still don't have a way to address the nuclear-spent rod issue, the waste that comes from nuclear power. Right now, they're held on-site, and the waste from nuclear power is held on-site. So what does that mean? That means that we have potential issues with groundwater. With drinking water, we have more problems being created than we are helping with some of this. And so I am a big sell on this until the technology's there.
Michael Pope
All right. And our final topic of the game show, buy, sell or hold, goes to Marcus Simon, and this is the topic pod Virginia twice a week. In your feed, Marcus Simon buys, sells, or holds twice a week.
Marcus Simon
I strongly buy twice a week if the alternative is once a week. If the alternative was three times a week, I would be a sell. But I've enjoyed the switch and format. I like that it's sort of split up. You do the more newsy thing on Monday and the more interview-based thing, even if it's a bunch of us on Thursdays. I regularly listen, so I'm a strong buy on twice-a-week episodes. I'd like them to be longer though I don't think they all need to be short. I mean, for yeah, well, when I'm on, at any rate, longer episode
Michael Pope
Sara Taylor buys, sells, or holds on Pod Virginia not once but twice a week.
Sarah Graham Taylor
I buy Pod Virginia twice a week mainly because my nerdy children ask for it on the regular, and when the more episodes I can have, the easier the car ride to school goes, so I'm a buy. Twice a week, pod Virginia and I appreciate you keeping my kids happy on long rides to school.
Michael Pope
We live to serve to delegate Alfonso Lopez to buy, sell or hold on pod Virginia not once but twice a week.
Alfonso Lopez
I'm gonna sell you guys have overstayed your welcome on the internet. Now. Um, now you guys are a buy. I love the new format. I love the new fact that you're on twice a week. And it's been fun. And also, I got an audit. I'll be honest. It's a great service for the Virginians. And it's a lot of fun to sort of get in the weeds on some of the issues that, you know, maybe people don't hear about a lot.
Michael Pope
This is the all-star panel because I'm in the room with most of our listeners, Senator Scott Serato, who buy, sell, or hold on pod Virginia twice weekly.
Scott Surovell
I'll buy that, although I will say that I'm disappointed. One of the reasons I abide, by the way, is because we don't have enough time to talk about things. For example, the elephant in the room today is the supply chain delays on the Scott Surovell Memorial Shit Tunnel, and Alexandria Sarah doesn't seem to be having problems getting built. But
Michael Pope
That's the poop you're talking about.
Scott Surovell
But not in any of that. I began that, Mike. I think the more we talk about Virginia policy politics, the better. I think we tend to get overshadowed in Richmond by what happens in DC and, to some extent, locally. The more we can do to get information about what we're doing and, and get an opportunity to ask us questions or, you know, get more people interested in the policy we're doing, the better for all of us. So I think what you guys are doing is an excellent service is Delegate Lopez said, but I hope we can talk about the shutdown on one of these days.
Michael Pope
We will certainly circle back around to that. All right. So that's all the time that we've got four words.
Marcus Simon
It's five or six curse words. You got to put a warning on this show.
Michael Pope
Yes, we probably will. All right. So that's all the time that we've got for this episode. I appreciate the all-star panel. The next time we do this, we won't be in the Pocahontas building. We'll be in the new General Assembly building. So that's all with the time we've got for this buy, sell, or hold episode.
