Michael Lee Pope is on vacation today and Lauren Burke of the Burkefile Podcast filled in as a guest host.

IN THE NEWS:

1. The redistricting lawsuit was dead and now it's alive again. After a court ruled that Paul Goldman lacked standing to bring the case, Jeff Thomas, author of, "The Virginia Way," filed another federal lawsuit seeking to force new state elections in 2022.

2. The Commanders found themselves in a, "dust up," with the Virginia General Assembly, which pulled a bill providing incentives for a new stadium after a coach called the Jan. 6 insurrection a, "dust up," and compared it with peaceful protests.

3. VA Gov. Glenn Youngkin is forcing all state employees to work from their office instead of their homes. Dems say this hurts the state's competitiveness with the private sector. We say we think it might violate the ADA.

INTERVIEW:

Del. Amanda Batten (R-James City County) is the House Republican Caucus Chair. Governor Glenn Youngkin just signed her bill to grant in-state tuition to victims of human trafficking living in Virginia at state colleges and universities.

See more at https://linktr.ee/JacklegMedia

SPONSORED BY THE SUBSTANCE ABUSE & ADDICTION RECOVERY ALLIANCE OF VIRGINIA (www.saara.org)

Thomas Bowman

I'm Thomas Bowman.

Lauren Burke

I'm Lauren Burke.

Thomas Bowman

And this is Pod Virginia, a podcast that's not being investigated by the January 6th committee. Michael's on vacation this week, so we've got Lauren Burke of the Burkefile Podcast filling in. Lauren, thanks for coming back.

Lauren Burke

Great to be here. Thanks for having me back.

Thomas Bowman

We really appreciate it. Later, you'll hear our conversation with the House Republican caucus chair, Delegate Amanda Batten. She has a bill, that was among seven signed by the Governor on Wednesday, that had to do with human trafficking.

Lauren Burke

Delegate Battens bill provided in state tuition for students who were brought into Virginia as a victim of human trafficking.

Thomas Bowman

But before we get to that, we're covering three main stories today.

Lauren Burke

Our first story the redistricting case has a new litigant Jeff Thomas, author of, "The Virginia Way." The court ruled that Paul Goldman didn't have standing, and so Thomas filed a new lawsuit, seeking new elections this year.

Thomas Bowman

For our second story, the Defensive Coordinator for the Washington Commanders called the violent insurrection on January 6th, a, quote, "dust up." Well, that caused a dust up between the Washington commanders and the General Assembly, which decided to scrap a bill to bring the football team to Virginia.

Lauren Burke

For our third story, Virginia Governor Glenn Youngkin is forcing all state employees to work in the office, instead of at home. Dems say this hurts the state's competitiveness with the private sector.

Thomas Bowman

Okay, let's get into it.

Lauren Burke

So Thomas, let's talk about the Paul Goldman case. You know, the crux of this case, the underlying law, of course, was the fact that the districts are, effectively, the wrong districts, because the districts were not properly drawn because there was a delay, COVID, etc, and so on. And Paul Goldman sues last year, this Judge, David Novak, throws the case out because Paul Goldman doesn't have standing. Goldman today, Friday, June 10, is going to refile you know, file an appeal. I think, for the most part, people agree that the underlying law he's actually right, but he doesn't have standing. But interestingly enough, we have a new character in this story, an academic, an author named Jeff Thomas. That is an exciting new thing for this case, because Jeff Thomas does have standing.

Thomas Bowman

And his lawsuit is a little bit different. Goldman's was dismissed on technical grounds. But Jeff Thomas says that his Richmond area district is overpopulated, potentially, giving him a stronger claim that his vote is illegally diluted by the state's failure to complete redistricting on time.

Lauren Burke

Apparently, there's a hearing Monday. So it sounds like the judge is gonna be moving fairly quickly. Part of what was going on with the Goldman situation is that we were waiting around, week after week, waiting for this decision for Judge Novak, just on the standing question, which of course, is a technicality effectively. But with now the new litigan involved, with Jeff Thomas involved, it sounds almost like this could actually happen, or at least, obviously, there will be a ruling on the merits of the case.

Thomas Bowman

Well, they're running out of time, Lauren. So if it's not at the budget, which goes into effect, July 1, it's actually going to be physically impossible for the State Department of Elections to hold new elections and to prepare for it, to do the primary, and hold those new elections across the entire state, in time for November, whatever Election Day is in November. So I'm not convinced that it will lead to a different result. But what could happen is what happened a few years ago, when the courts ruled that several districts in parts of Virginia, were illegally, racially packed. And so where he is coming in at just this Richmond District being illegally packed, I think if any changes happen, it would be changes to the boundaries and a very limited set of districts. But technically speaking, I don't know how the state would manage to pull off an election that it doesn't have the funding for in, you know, it's only got less than a month to figure it out.

Lauren Burke

That's a really good point. I mean, the whole thing really is about timing and whether or not there is enough time and of course, money. And frankly, there probably isn't so and of course, as I think everybody realizes, those members of the House of Delegates, on both sides of the aisle, are not burning, you know, they're not interested, really, in running what would end up being three years in a row. So there's, there's no, there's not a lot of political excitement for doing this, to say the least. But you're right, the time, the clock, is ticking and time is running out.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah. And while the activists say, "Well, forget what the elected officials want to do, this is about the people, this is about effective representation," I hear you, but also, think about financing these elections, right? So if you're somebody who feels that way, you're more- my guess is you're probably more likely to vote Democrat in the first place. So if that's what you want, think about who has an easier time funding their reelection campaigns? Three years in a row is a lot of money for the Democratic donor class.

Lauren Burke

The only thing that I think about from a political standpoint is, of course, the Democrats lost the House of Delegates last November, of course, along with all the statewide offices. So one would think that they would be more enthusiastic about the idea of having elections again, because it gives them the opportunity to control the Senate and the House.

Thomas Bowman

I think all of that really would depend on the attitude federally, a lot of Democrats credit their party's loss, and a Republican Clean Sweep, to federal politics and attitudes toward Biden, again, on the federal level, generally. So if nothing has shifted, and as far as those political dynamics go, then there's no guarantee that running a campaign in 2022 is going to be better, very well. And the '21 race broke the narrative that more people voting helps Democrats. It didn't. It actually helped Glenn Youngkin.

Lauren Burke

Right. No, that's right. That's absolutely right. And we're sitting here with $5 gas in Richmond, it's pretty, you know, with the the economy being what it is, I totally can see the political argument, as the stock market drops as we speak, that maybe things would get worse for the Democrats in the Virginia House of Delegates if, if you're on the same ballot with members of Congress, because your point is very well taken. We had that record turnout, you know, seven months ago, and the Republican won and won big.

Thomas Bowman

I guess the takeaway here is be careful what you wish for. But Lauren, let's move on to our next story. So the Defensive Coordinator for the Washington Commanders got in some hot water. He had to issue a non apology/apology in which after calling January 6, "a dust up," his non apology note, compared it to other peaceful protests. Of course, there was nothing peaceful about a violent insurrection. So, Lauren, help us understand, what did the General Assembly do? What were they considering doing? And what's the status now?

Lauren Burke

Well, the status is now that the stadium is really off the table. Right now. I mean, and in part because, frankly, the ownership of the team, Dan Snyder, I mean, that's not a Being the owner, I think, was the first thing that is a sticking point. He is under an investigation, that made, I think, people very uncomfortable right at the onset, then you have the money, then you have stadium deals writ large around this country, that always seem to be a burden on local taxpayers. I mean, they that all has to be figured out. And then on top of everything else, the Defensive Coordinator of the Washington Commanders, Jack Del Rio, makes this political statement in the same week that all of this is on everybody's mind. And that was really bad timing, that was tremendously bad timing.

Thomas Bowman

Right before the the new videos dropped the January 6 hearing.

Lauren Burke

That's right. That's right. Those those videos dropped two days after Jack Del Rio says, "Well, this was a dust up at the U.S. Capitol." And of course, you know, there wasn't just the dust up, it was an actual threat to our democracy, as we all know. And you know, we certainly have seen other coaches on other teams, as you know, Steve Kerr, and Popovich and other people in sports, make political statements, but this one in particular for Virginia, was very, very poorly timed. Because, you know, I do think that there can be a lot of economic excitement around the stadium, perhaps coming into Virginia. But that coupled with Dan Snyder being the team owner, is a bad combination. And politicians in Virginia are not we're not particularly enthusiastic to begin with, and then you add some of these right wing MAGA political statement to it, and that really, you know, knocked it off the table. So, I, where it stands now is that it's off the table. That's what's going on.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, I can't imagine how saying something like this, that causes the team to lose out on a stadium site, isn't a violation of your contract terms.

Lauren Burke

You know what, I didn't even think about that. There's probably some clauses in there about you know, usually and a lot of contracts will say something in there about, you know, not embarrassing the team, etc. I suspect there's nothing specific about political statements, but you never know.

Thomas Bowman

Well, I have a sneaky suspicion that Dan Snyder, notorious micromanager, is already looking to replace him. But of course, if you look at what Senator Dick Saslaw said when he decided to pull the bill, some people interpreted it as him just waiting a little while until the heat cools.

Lauren Burke

You know what? That could be true, certainly. It's hard to tell, you know, nothing is ever completely dead in politics. We know that the media cycles, and attention spans being what they are, of course, it could be resurrected. Certainly one could argue that could be an economic boom for any area that that stadium ends up in. It's just that, you know, putting extra hurdles in front of discussion that are that are political, certainly makes it, you know, when you pack that onto the the fact that taxpayers may have to pay something for this all to happen, which is typically the case with the stadium deals, it doesn't make it easier. But you're right. I mean, I, of course, it could come up again.

Thomas Bowman

All right, Lauren, what else have you got for us?

Lauren Burke

Thomas, our third topic is that Governor Youngkin, wants employees to not work remotely. And he missed a critical deadline with regard to this issue. The issue really is the fact that after COVID, after everything that happened economically with COVID, and so many businesses, of course, struggled and or shut down. The Governor wants people to be working at work to of course, bring back the economy, in the downtown area, and that has its complications, for childcare, and for so many other issues, as we learned over the last two years. This is something that certainly a lot of activists are pushing back against. And certainly with regard to the issue of childcare alone, and a lot of other issues that people have having to come into work every single day. And quite frankly, Thomas, I think a lot of people learn that if you have a computer related job, you really actually can do that any place, you know, this idea of coming into work, and being physically in, and going through traffic and all that, I think it made people rethink a lot of that. But of course, a lot of elected officials want people physically back in.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah. And cities, and towns, and municipalities, of course, the the businesses that serve those areas could use more traffic. And so there's some amount of economic argument to be made. But the bigger problem I see is that, yeah, it does certainly make the state less competitive with the private sector who's figured this stuff out. In my consulting for private sector clients, one of the one of the things we realized on the question of remote work versus in person work, is the only people who really, really want in person work, are the mid level managers, because they don't know how to do their jobs if they can't go and see you in person. So what does that mean? That means that you need to hire managers who are qualified to manage remotely.

Lauren Burke

Exactly right. And, you know, having a government workforce and of course, brings a lot of people, you know, obviously into the downtown sector and is going to impact businesses. I know, in New York, it was like the, the mayor tried to get like, you know, really sort of mandate that everybody, you know, comes in, it's a touchy thing, because most government jobs, and as somebody who's worked, you know, in not only in media, but in state and federal government, you know, you're at the computer all the time, you're at the computer probably 80% of the time.

Thomas Bowman

Or staring at your phone for the other 20%.

Lauren Burke

Exactly. Right, exactly. You're saying yes. Right. When you're not at the computer, you're staring at the phone. Now that could happen any place. You don't have to really be sitting in a cubicle for that. And it's actually sort of an old fashioned notion that, you know, you want to physically see someone sitting there. But again, what we learned during COVID was that none of that was necessary. A lot of these buildings in the downtown's of bigger cities have found that out. And so we are now, I think, in the process of reimagining, you know, whether or not people really have to be physically sitting in a specific place to get work done.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah I think that's gonna wind up being a old fashioned 20th century notion. And the other concern that I have about this policy, or lack thereof, of remote work policy, Lauren, is well, I guess there's two one, it's it's retrograde because governments have been enabling remote working like for a long time. It's part of what has made government jobs such a good job. But the other problem with this is by forcing everybody to come in, or making it almost impossible, is it's a wholesale violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act. You can't force people into situations that would hurt them. Because you, you as the government feel like it, right. That's arbitrary and capricious.

Lauren Burke

right that you know, that's right. And, you know, some I've seen like on the on the federal level, they're sort of playing around with the idea of having people come in, you know, two days a week, three days a week, it's almost like the feeling of, you know, we want to, we want to see you and know that you're in the general area of where you are, you know, where you live near work. And as far as disabilities are concerned, sure, you know, your point is, is extremely well taken on that. I don't even know that the Governor has really thought about any of that consideration, it would appear that that's not the case. But really what you know, I think everybody generally understands that what this is really about, is to try to get the local economies thriving again, after the hard hit that they took for the last two years.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, well, there's definitely going to be a big fight on it and messaging, and I think Democrats ultimately are right, it's gonna be harder for the state who already has lower salaries, to recruit people to come take state jobs that, like, I don't know about you, but I'm not interested in working in person, anytime for the foreseeable future. I sure miss having colleagues, I suppose. But in the social interactions, but I mean, come on, we're not there to make friends. We're there to earn a paycheck.

Lauren Burke

You know, I have to admit, I've become bored of, you know, COVID. With the beginning, yeah, it was sort of cool and fun. And the first six months, and then then I got sort of bored with being, you know, in the same place, I kind of don't mind going to certain locations. The thing of it is, is that, you know, some people do have health considerations that are not minor. So with regard to COVID, even though yes, it's not as bad as it was at the very beginning, in 2020, a lot of people are fine with being at home. But you know, it's funny, I've several friends who are Chiefs of Staff, and you know, staff, directors, people who do a lot of hiring, and they're saying in the in the in the interviews with people, the first thing that people ask about is whether or not they can work remotely, they're not even asking about salary First. It's asking about, "Can I work remotely?" So this is definitely something that's going to be a huge issue with regard to employment issues moving forward.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, I agree, more to come. When we come back, we're joined by the Virginia House of Delegates Republican Caucus Chair, Amanda Batten. We're going to talk about her bill to help victims of human trafficking get in state tuition at Virginia colleges, as well as what comes next. We'll be right back.

We're back on Pod Virginia. I'm Thomas Bowman. We're going to talk about a crime that happens in the shadows. And it doesn't get a lot of press. But the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services calls it the second largest criminal industry in the world today. And the fastest growing. That's human trafficking. Virginia is about to get a new law to help victims of human trafficking. And it was introduced by our next guest, Republican Delegate Amanda Batten of James City County. Thanks for joining us Delegate.

Amanda Batten

Thank you for having me.

Thomas Bowman

It's great to have you on. So your bill, which is about to become a law, allows victims of human trafficking to receive in state tuition. Why did you introduce this bill? And what do you hope it'll accomplish?

Amanda Batten

Well, I've actually carried this bill three years. So I carried it my first, second, and my third legislative session. And the reason that I'm so passionate about this particular issue is because it is local to my district. We have an organization that is here in the greater Williamsburg area called Latishas House. And they are a nonprofit, faith based organization, and they deal with women who are victims of human trafficking. And I've had the opportunity over the years to watch the organization from the very beginning. I found their mission very interesting, of course, but to your point of this being something that often occurs in the shadows, I appreciated the fact that it just raised awareness in not only the Williamsburg community but the greater Hampton Roads area of you know, the the problem with human trafficking and how prevalent it's become. And one thing I learned as I was kind of discussing the issue with you know, the folks who are affiliated with this organization, is that a lot of these women, they're not here permanently, they're here, maybe temporarily, this is a safe haven for them. They might be a resident of another state, but it's better for them to be up here in this, you know, in the safe house here, at Latishas House, receiving services here, even though maybe they're a resident of North Carolina, South Carolina, wherever it might be. Now, of course, if you live in Virginia long enough, you basically establish residency, I think after six months For intent of you could you can have access to in state tuition. But a lot of these women aren't here, necessarily, all that long, or they just have a lot of mitigating circumstances that prevent them from meeting that residency requirement, that would be pretty easy for the rest of us to come by. And that what the organization does, Latishas House here, is they pay that tuition for the women. So what it does is it really limits their ability to spend those funds in other ways. So they, they approached me with this idea about in state tuition and said, you know, "We're not asking for free tuition, we just want these women to be eligible for in state tuition, because that would save us a lot of money when these women are applying to college and actually are accepted into programs." So that's why I decided to carry it. It's, if you look at the bill, it's actually kind of interesting, you think maybe that there would be a large fiscal impact statement that's attached to this, which is, of course, you know, the price tag to the Commonwealth. But it there's really not, there's not sadly, there's not a lot of women who are even eligible to go to college, there are so many of these ladies who never even had the opportunity to finish high school. So it's a pretty small population of women, but it's extremely meaningful to the organizations that support them. And of course, to the ladies themselves.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, that makes sense, I suppose you know, there can't be that many people who are in a situation like that, that wind up in a position to go to college. But those that do, if they're working with an organization, like Latishas House, could absolutely use some help from the state, at least in state tuition through that organization. So help us define our term here. So what is human trafficking because I think people have an idea of what it might be, but it's one of those terms that kind of gets thrown around a lot. So how does your bill define human trafficking?

Amanda Batten

What the language says is that a person may be a victim of human trafficking, regardless of whether or not they've been charged with or convicted of any offense. So eligibility may be proved by a certification of such status as a victim of human trafficking by federal, state, or local agency, or a not for profit agency, one of whose primary missions is to provide services to victims of human trafficking. So basically, law enforcement agencies, or certain nonprofits, are able to certify that these individuals are victims of sex trafficking. And, again, every situation is unique. So I don't know that there is a boilerplate or a cookie cutter form as to what that would look like.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, it's definitely complex, because a 2019 report from the Virginia Department of Criminal Justice Services says the actual size is impossible to quantify, because Virginia's got no reporting mechanisms. And the only stats we have are from legal cases, were prosecutions. And many cases, of course, I'm certain are never reported. So the state police report between 400 to 900 arrests each year. But that's not a good indication of the number of victims. So the Hampton Roads Taskforce on Human Trafficking was able to identify 52 victims in 2017. But that's just one region. And it's probably only a fraction of the actual number of victims. And we also know that human trafficking is separated, generally speaking, into sex trafficking, which you referenced a minute ago, and labor trafficking. And do you have an idea of what's more prevalent in Virginia?

Amanda Batten

I could not give you a good answer as to which of those is more prevalent, you know, this this legislation was pretty specific to it was pretty narrowly tailored. And that one of the issues with it, as well, and I kind of spoke to this earlier is, you know, some you're citing a lot of the numbers, and that's good information. But it's important to remember that some of these nonprofit organizations are helping women who maybe aren't from Virginia, or they were trafficked in another state, and then they ended up here to receive those services. Because it's, you know, for whatever reason, it might not be safe for them to return to their, you know, hometown or wherever it might be, or obviously, where the crime occurred. So there's, you know, there's some ambiguity there as well.

Thomas Bowman

I know, I'm just curious that like, I remember the case of Elizabeth Smart, who she was sort of out and about and seen in public, but people didn't realize she was in public, and people didn't realize that she was trafficking, and she was afraid for stigma, because of the stigma that about whether or not she should speak up and say anything. So there are organizations, as you said, that specialize in this. So what does some of these organizations, you mentioned the Latishas House, I assume there are others? What kind of services do they offer these victims? And what might somebody want to go to one of these organizations for?

Amanda Batten

So the Latishas House offers wraparound services, it's a residential community. So the women who have usually come through via law enforcement, they receive housing, they receive food, they receive clothing, there's absolutely no cost to them. It is a faith based component. So I don't know what all the elements there are as far as those conversation go but the women are, you know, have resources to education so that they can complete, you know, their, their high school or elementary school, middle school, whatever level they arrive at. So they have, you know, a mission basically every day for women who are able to as time goes on, they're able to reenter the community and work. I know for Latishas House and this was one of the reasons that this came up, as far as the in state college tuition is, you know, some of these women, you know, they're not going to maybe go and get a four year degree necessarily, but they do want to go to community college and maybe learn, you know, a specific skill while they're there. So they're looking more for workforce type of training, if you will. And that was that that's very much a mission of Latishas House, making sure that these women are able to be there for as long as they need to be there. And that, you know, at the time, when they eventually, you know, sort of leave the program that they are, you don't have all the resources that they need in order to be successful.

Thomas Bowman

You know, what else I like about your bill, Delegate, is that most of the existing laws around human trafficking in Virginia, is about, like most laws on crime, punishing offenders, which, obviously, that's certainly important, but there's not that much out there about helping victims and your bill is an important step in that direction. But as you mentioned, there's not there's probably not a huge population demanding the need for in state tuition. So I'm wondering, what are the next steps? And what else do you think the General Assembly can do?

Amanda Batten

You know, honestly, I would probably continue to partner with Latishas House and see how you know, how this bill affects them, and their ability to, you know, be successful? And, you know, see, certainly I take guidance from them. I mean, I'm not an expert in this area, I'm not affiliated with law enforcement, I tend to, you know, go to these places and say, "Tell me, tell me what your needs are, you know, what, what is a hindrance to you as an organization in helping provide these services for these women?" and I kind of want to go back and touch on something, you're talking about how to, you know, identify victims or, or whatnot. We actually, it's interesting, because, you know, it's hard to sometimes see a victim that's being trafficked. But you know, what a situation that we had in Williamsburg areas. A number of years ago, there was a house here, it looks completely innocuous, just a brick rancher on a normal, actually, very well, a very well traveled road. And inside of this house, they had basically a group of women, and they were being trafficked. They were not from the area, they were actually being trafficked all up and down, you know, the major interstates on the East Coast. And so they would go from house to house to house, not staying there very long. And there's a reason that they do that. Of course, that's so if and when at some point, the enterprises discovered it's very difficult to prosecute the crimes that are committed because they're multi jurisdictional. And so that was one of the first things that happened in this area. And you know, I live in Williamsburg, right? So people think Williamsburg, you know, it's nothing bad ever happens there. It's Colonial Williamsburg, you know, you don't think of this as being a place where you would see a crime of that nature, but it was happening right underneath of folks noses here. I mean, it was a, a brick rancher, and, you know, men would come there and, you know, patronize the the establishment, and it was it was busted here. So, of course, they rescued all the women and prosecuted, you know, the folks who were were the who were running organization. So that's one of the reasons that certainly came to my attention. And that was, I can't remember, I think, I think it was before the establishment of Latishas House, which is a relatively new organization, but sort of all kind of around the same time.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, you know, this, this is the first time I've talked about Hampton Roads and trafficking in the context of human trafficking. But Hampton Roads generally has got a huge problem with black market smuggling generally. So like, firearms, cigarettes, all of those things. And one of the reasons for that is, of course, you've got a large port right there at Hampton Roads, you've got the rail line, to move quickly, you've got 64, very close to 95, which takes us all up and down. And so at one point, the stretch of 95, for gun trafficking around Richmond was known, I think it was like the Iron Corridor or something like that. So I'm very familiar with trafficking in Virginia, of black market objects. But this is the first time I've really talked to anybody about human trafficking and help me get a scale of the problem a little bit better Delegate, because it's not one I've ever considered before. So what about Latishas House and really struck you as to them being an organization with helping and cause we're taking up?

Amanda Batten

I mean, I guess I would just say it seemed an obvious cause. I think human trafficking is not something that most people want to think about. And you certainly don't want to think that it's happening in your area. But of course, we became aware of it here because these ladies were being trafficked, not only the Hampton Roads region, but you know, out of the area as well. You know, they're they're not necessarily, as I said earlier, people who are from Virginia, they're from out of state, and that's why they're here. So they don't have any connections to the community, and there's not, you know, a risk for their trafficker to, you know, to have those folks discovered and cut off from their families and all of that. I think it's, you know, I think it's important that we make folks aware that this is an actual problem, it can be happening right underneath of your noses. And, you know, in the event that, you know, something is discovered that there's actually resources for these women. And yes, you mentioned earlier, it can be very complicated, because sometimes there's, some of these ladies may have committed a crime along the way, and a lot of that has to do with a little bit off topic here. But in that case, sometimes it has to do with, you know, the, the person who's trafficking them, you know, makes them do these things under, you know, loving threats and things like that. So there's, there's a lot of nuances and challenges in dealing with the issue. I think that anything that we can do that provides resources for these women, so that in the event that, you know, either they're apprehended by law enforcement, or maybe they are able to just break away individually, although that's very difficult that, you know, we're doing everything we can to make sure that they're able to move away from that life, because it's very challenging. I mean, a lot of them are habits of addictions. We haven't really talked about that. But of course, that's a problem as well, you know, so the medical resources that are required to care for these ladies, can be can be pretty intense. A lot of this goes without saying, but you know, psychological trauma, a lot of these women actually have children. So La house also works with a lot of legal organizations to help where they can to reunite women, with their children, if it's at all possible. So there, there are so many issues that are wrapped into sort of this, this conversation about human trafficking, but at the end of the day, it's important to remember that these are, these are women who have been, you know, traumatized, they've been victimized. And, you know, if they have moved away from, from that part of their life, they still have a lot of challenges ahead of them. And it requires careful thought, and in some cases, legislation. And, of course, you know, this organ, it nonprofit organizations to help them and have a support network for them.

Thomas Bowman

Delegate, you mentioned, all of the circumstances, being very diverse, because, I mean, I think the big fear for human trafficking are about getting traffic does, you know, a taken situation where you're kidnapped off the street, thrown into a car, or van or whatever, but it doesn't always come out of the blue like that. Right? So what are some of the situations you mentioned, drugs, or crimes? What are the situation in which somebody could find themselves vulnerable to becoming trafficked?

Amanda Batten

One of the issues that was raised to me by the, the administrator of Laticias House is a lot of times it's women's boyfriends. So you know, they start dating someone, and for whatever reason, I certainly wouldn't be privy to what those internal conversations where but the boyfriend ends up, you know, being their trafficker. And sadly, that's, that's a lot of how it happens. And so it sort of, is a situation where, you know, the female wants to please their their love interest, or what, who they think is their love interest. And that person is really out there to abuse them and exploit them. And sadly, that's, that's how some women get get roped into, into the human trafficking situation. And there may be drugs involved there, you know, anything that the male, typically a male can do to, you know, keep the woman sort of, to make her reliant on on him. They'll do that. And it's just a it's a tragic situation, because then you also have the added trauma for these women have their someone that they thought cared about them, someone that they thought loved them. And you know, a lot of these women come from very difficult backgrounds, you know, they they've already maybe been abused, in their home or somewhere in their life. And so they have some vulnerability there. But again, it's an extra layer of trauma for this person that you think cares about you. And actually they are just looking to exploit you. So have heard have heard that scenario, many times.

Thomas Bowman

So Delegate, what would you say the takeaway is, for those of us who probably don't think about human trafficking all the time, and maybe we don't know what to think about human trafficking, other than that, it's a bad thing? What's our what's our takeaway on our way out here?

Amanda Batten

I would just encourage everyone to, we all have the internet to go online and do a little bit of research, especially specific to your area. I think a lot of folks think it's not happening around them, or it's never happened there. And you might be surprised to learn what's going on right in your backyard. And once you've raised that awareness, look around for the what are the organizations that serve these women? I think the work that they do is incredible. It's so challenging. I've heard stories as well of, you know, women who have entered some of these these facilities and these organizations, and it's just incredibly difficult for them to recover from the trauma that they've experienced. But I think just letting folks know that this is actually a problem but there are people who care and are working very hard to ensure that that the problem is tackled.

Thomas Bowman

Well, thank you Delegate, and thank you for joining us.

Michael Pope

Pod Virginia is a production of Jackleg Media. Our Producer is Aaryan Balu, our Social Media Manager is Emily Cottrell, and our Advertising Sales Manager is David O'Connell.

Thomas Bowman

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Michael Pope

We'll be back next week with another episode of Pod Virginia.