Michael Pope

I'm Michael Pope.

Thomas Bowman

I'm Tom Bowman.

Michael Pope

And this is Pod Virginia, the tax-free podcast on Virginia politics.

Thomas Bowman

Very nice. Later in the show, you're gonna hear about a six-year effort to make a really simple change in Virginia law. It's something that seems so obvious now and yet, for one advocate, It was a struggle that took six years.

Michael Pope

We'll hear from Holly Seibold. Now, she's the founder of a nonprofit organization called BRAWS that was originally created to distribute bras and menstrual supplies to homeless shelters, jails, prisons and schools. Now six years ago, she had a very simple idea eliminate the 6% sales tax on menstrual supplies. So she teamed up with Senator Jennifer Boysko, and the two of them decided that the best way to approach this would be to avoid talk of menstruation

Thomas Bowman

...Don't want to make those senators and delegates uncomfortable.

Michael Pope

So Seibold and Senator Boysko were working together and they were trying to figure out the best way to sell this to the Republicans who controlled the General Assembly at the time. And so they decided that instead of talking about menstruation or women's issues, that they would frame this as the Dignity Act. So they decided to call it the Dignity Act. And finally the day arrived, this was going to be appearing before the subcommittee. So Holly Seibold, gets in her car before the sun comes up, she drives the two hours down to Richmond, she makes her way into the cramped subcommittee room, so that she could give her prepared comments to the lawmakers who pretended to listen. And then guess what happened, Thomas? Well, this is how Senator Boysko go describes it:

Jennifer Boysko

There was one amendment made to that bill, it was to strip the name, the Dignity Act from the bill, and then they killed it.

Michael Pope

stripped the dignity from the Dignity Act and then they killed it.

Thomas Bowman

Classic. That doesn't surprise me one bit. And there's a lot more to this journey, right? So that's where it starts, but where it ends is actually Governor Glenn Youngkin. campaigning on ending the grocery tax and how are those connected? Why does that matter? Well, the story of advocacy for menstrual equity actually does have a happy ending, but you're going to need to stick around to find out.

Michael Pope

Yes, you'll hear about that. later in the show, hey, before we get to the news, Thomas, do we have any new patreon to thank?

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, we do, Michael. Connie, thank you for becoming our newest Patreon.

Michael Pope

Yes, Connie, thank you so much for helping us out. You know, we could not do the work we do on this podcast without support from listeners like us. So thank you to Connie and thank you to all the Patreon to help support the show. Okay, let's get to the news. The fracking pipeline is back.

Thomas Bowman

What the frack?

Michael Pope

Fracking believe it, Thomas. The mountain valley pipeline may soon be gushing fracked natural gas 300 miles from West Virginia to Chatham here in Virginia, most of the mountain valley pipeline has already been constructed. So this thing is like up and almost operational. But they need a whole lot of permits before they can actually connect the natural gas pipeline from West Virginia to Virginia.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, and environmentalists are worried that in the rush to secure Joe mansions vote for the Inflation Reduction Act, they might have bargained away a chance to cut down on fossil fuels in West Virginia and here in Virginia.

Michael Pope

Yeah, I had a chance to talk with David Sly at Wild Virginia about this. And this is what he had to say about the current situation:

David Sly

Folks who want to build these things. They have a right to propose whatever they want. But sometimes their interest in making a profit is in direct conflict with what's best for the public as a whole. So that's why we have these processes. And that's not something we should let go of lightly.

Michael Pope

Yeah. So this deal, you know, that is being crafted in Congress is is one thing, but it does not necessarily mean that the mountain valley pipeline will happen, you know, there's a whole lot of permits, you got a permit to cross streams, you got a permit to cross water, you got a court challenge in the Fourth Circuit Court, you know, part of this deal in Washington is theoretically you could move the jurisdiction of this lawsuit from the Fourth Circuit Court, to the DC courts where it might get a more favorable rating, but moving the jurisdiction of a lawsuit sounds more complicated than just saying that's going to happen. And then also, you're gambling, what if the DC courts don't like it either?

Thomas Bowman

Yeah. And Michael, the real story is about how the sausage gets made. So Democrats needed Joe Manchin's vote on a lot of policies before the Senate. And Joe Biden needed to give Manchin something to make it worth his while. And one of those somethings seems to be the Mountain Valley Pipeline.

Michael Pope

Yeah, and it's a there's a lot of quid pro quo here. I mean, you've you've got health care benefits that people that will help people, you know, with getting rid of the subsidy cliff, and you've got long range, reduction of emissions. So I mean, you give a little to get a little, I guess, in the Washington parlance. And so by giving a little on fracked natural gas, in the long term, you get lowered emissions. That's the deal they're trying to cut in Washington. Is that do you think that's going to work?

Thomas Bowman

Well, we'll see. As you noted correctly, Michael, this is a very complex process with a lot still to play out that may not be completely in the President's control.

Michael Pope

Well, so one group that's always been skeptical of renewable sources of energy is manufacturers. So they say the sun doesn't always shine and the wind doesn't always blow. So what happens when you've got a factory and you need massive amounts of power, like 24/7 power when the wind is not blowing and the sun is not shining? Well, I spoke to Brett Vassey at the Virginia Manufacturers Association about the importance of having access to power from natural gas. And this is what he told me:

Brett Vassey

The wind doesn't always blow, the sun doesn't always shine. And we have to have a consistent load all the time. That requires us then to have either backup or supplements. And right now, energy storage is not really their battery backup for a factory. It's not practical.

Michael Pope

This is a really important point. The storage of these renewable sources of power is an evolving technology. And right now, it's not where it needs to be. But by the time Virginia has his wind farm up, for example, or all these solar installations are out in southwest Virginia, the technology of this kind of energy storage will be better. But it's not where it needs to be right now. And manufacturers Thomas, they're worried they got a factory, they got factories, they need to run and they've got 24/7 requirements for power. They need a whole lot of power. And from their perspective, the renewable source of energy just isn't cutting it right now.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, well, somebody might want to let Brett Vassey know that their biggest funder, Honeywell, actually makes that battery and there they have it in operation with Duke Energy in North Carolina. So I'm not really sure why he's, he's saying this, but battery storage is improving and does exist. And, you know, to his, I would say very weak point about needing a consistent load all the time. That's not the factory's problem. That is the electricity providers problem. And by the way, Michael, no generation resource, that's a power plant, it never runs 100% of the time, we have different power plants and different resources that the utilities and various grid operators pull together in order to make sure that there is enough supply of electricity to meet the demand on the grid as a whole. And this is not new. This is how electricity goes into your light when you flip a switch, right? So these power prices are a very significant expense for manufacturers. And right now the price of fossil fuels, is spiking, it's driving their costs way up, they wouldn't have to worry about these fuel prices with wind and solar. And the electrons, by the way, look the same. So why do they care? They should be for this sort of energy diversity to hedge against fuel price risk.

Michael Pope

Well, you mentioned fossil fuels. You know, there's a lot of distinction between energy from fossil fuels and energy from solar power or energy from wind power. And part of that is obvious with emissions. Right? So fossil fuels contribute to emissions, whereas renewable sources of energy, for the most part, don't. I talk to our friend Harry Godfrey, at Advanced Energy Economy about this, and this is how he explained it:

Harry Godfrey

The fossil fuel plants are generally dispatch-able, you flip a switch, and the plant turns on and provides more electricity, provided you have the coal... provided you have a natural gas or oil flowing into it... with wind or solar, we can't flip a switch and turn on the wind or turn on the sun. So as we make that transition, we need backup power to bridge those differences.

Michael Pope

Yeah, so local governments across Virginia, have been considering this sort of thing and will be considering this thing long into the future. You know, I think there's been like, 51 proposals across local governments across Virginia for solar installations. And, you know, many of those 51 proposals have been approved, Thomas?

Thomas Bowman

I see the number right here in front of me, Michael, I know you just want to tell me.

Michael Pope

It is in the script... You can tell me Thomas. Of the 51 proposals how many...

Thomas Bowman

...Wild guess wild guess out of nowhere.. 44, maybe?

Michael Pope

44 is the correct answer. Yeah, that's so that's the vast majority of them have been approved. But you know, it won't surprise you to learn that in most of those situations, you had opponents showing up to the board of supervisors that says don't put this solar installation here, it would be an eyesore, it will screw up this pristine environment that we've got. It'll look bad, you know, we won't get tourism money because who wants to come out to the...

Thomas Bowman

...This pristine environment that now has like, hydrocarbons, polluting it and plastics everywhere, and by the way, rainwater everywhere in the world, even... at the

Michael Pope

...And the the pristine environment of factory farming.

Thomas Bowman

Yes, yes. And, and pollution raining down on you with forever chemicals. Look... things like solar and offshore wind, present one of if not the most promising opportunity to grow new manufacturing in Virginia and expand existing industries, as they supply the parts and components as part of this supply chain. So Virginia Manufacturers should be excited, they should be supporting development of these new technologies for the additional business they'll bring to the state.

Michael Pope

Yeah, they want to make sure the power is there before they get on board with it.

Thomas Bowman

Again, that's not their concern, but it is the concern of some of their donors, like Honeywell makes a lot of industrial fossil fuel equipment for their other donor Koch Industries, which makes...which is, of course a conglomerate that among other things, as a lot with chemicals and oils, petrochemicals, and fossil fuels, generally also the industrial scale technology of that so there's a lot of money on the table. And that kind of explains where Virginia manufacturers are coming from when you look at according to VPAP who is funding these guys, it is fossil fuel energy. And what they are trying to do is trying to represent themselves as somebody concerned about manufacturing in general, but their actual funders are concerned about specifically the manufacturing of fossil fuel equipment. So that would connect dots a little bit more for the listener, Michael. And I think it's useful to understand that the money trail here is how that goes to influencing the things that lobbyists say.

Michael Pope

Yeah, I hear you, but if Honeywell makes a battery that can store power from, you know, solar panels or wind turbines, then isn't that a solution here where everybody wins, Honeywell wins, the manufacturers win and we get renewable energy.

Thomas Bowman

That's just one element to consider, because in a vacuum that would make sense. But it's not a vacuum. You've also got things like scale, margin, and, things that investors care about. So the amount of business they get out of fossil fuel, dwarfs the amount of business that they might hypothetically be able to build on battery backups that they are constructing, and they are coming. But they'll have a lot of competition in that department, too.

Michael Pope

Let's talk about Kansas. Everybody's talking about Kansas, there was that huge vote last week 60 to 40. 60% of Kansas voters said that abortion rights was something that they wanted to support and the anti abortion forces that had this statewide ballot initiative last, so the abortion rights supporters one with a 60 to 40 vote and so huge victory for abortion rights in Kansas. Everyone is buzzing about this. Is it an indicator of a blue wave? I talked to friend of the podcast, Chaz Nuttycombe about this, and this is what he had to say to listeners of Pod Virginia.

Chaz Nuttycombe

This isn't any sort of indicator that there's going to be some big blue wave this November. I think when it comes to this November right now, what we're seeing in polling is is known as the "Blue Mirage" in the summertime. Over the past several cycles, August and July are really great times for polling for Democrats. So I think the polling for the generic ballot and all these other contests will start to snap back into reality.

Michael Pope

Snap back into reality in the fall. So you know, I, we've heard of the red Mirage, which happens on election night, where the first returns in are the people who voted on Election Day and the trailing data that comes in much later is the people who voted early or the people who voted absentee. But until jazz use this expression, I've never heard of a blue Mirage, which is essentially summertime polling seems to indicate one thing and then after Labor Day, you snap back to reality Thomas even heard about a Blue Mirage over the summertime?

Thomas Bowman

I've never necessarily heard it framed like that. But Michael it, it's pretty well understood that there's a few things that go into creating this mirage and among them is undecided voters, which narrow as we get closer and closer to election day. It obviously depends on the year you're looking at as to whether it's a red mirage, or blue mirage. But the point is that the data at this point are unreliable, when it comes to trying to figure out who's gonna win. It's just a snapshot of public sentiment at the time. What I found really interesting to Chaz's point is that while many, many people who are Republican, supported abortion rights, and voted on that issue, they still voted for Republican candidates overall.

Michael Pope

Yeah, in fact, Chas had something to say on that. And let me play that soundbite here.

Chaz Nuttycombe

When it comes to actual policies. There are plenty of voters, Republican leaning voters, conservative voters, who will vote with the Democratic position on referendums and constitutional amendments, but they won't vote for a Democrat pretty much ever.

Michael Pope

Interesting. So they'll vote for the issue, but not for the Democrat. So I mean, a lot of people have talked about this Kansas vote as maybe a predictor about things that might happen in November, but then you hear chairs, say, you know, like those voters, they're never going to vote for a Democrat. So is this really a good predictor or not? I mean, is this Can this give us any kind of predictive value for November?

Thomas Bowman

Well, the amount to which a result in one specific state indicates predictor for the rest of the country is dubious at best. But what it does show is that even in a reliably read locale, you have considerable support for the right of people to seek abortions, and to access abortions. And that means that if I were someone like the governor of Virginia saying that we should have a special session to settle this question, well, guess what, I don't want to tie my party to anti-abortion because it is enough. Like we don't necessarily do referendums in Virginia unless it's a constitutional amendment. I don't want Democrats being able to tie my party to this issue that in Enough of my traditional voters actually care about in order to make it up. potential problem for me and my party in November. That's what I would be thinking fumbling young candidates in in Tommy norm it. I wouldn't be very surprised if Tommy norm it came around and said, Well, I mean, Governor, if you want us to consider this bill will do so in the normal order of thing and in January.

Michael Pope

All right, before we take a commercial break, Thomas, let's head over to the watercooler and get a sense of what people are talking about this week. So my story here is from the Virginia Mercury Graham Moomaw had a great story federal judge throws out second redistricting suit seeking new Virginia House elections. So this story begins here a federal judge is dismissing a last ditch effort to force new Virginia House of Delegates elections in November concluding that the pandemic related delay in the state's redistricting process cannot justify the extreme step of ordering an election do over so you can relax, take a breath, go to the beach, enjoy the blue Mirage for a little while because there will be no special elections for the House of Delegates this year.

Thomas Bowman

And you know, last week we talked about the things we got wrong. Well, I'm gonna give myself a little pat on the back for getting this one so so right. Michael, I've got my own story, too, for the water cooler here.

Michael Pope

Great. Yeah, what's in your water cooler?

Thomas Bowman

In case you missed it, this is from the Washington Blade. State Delegate Dave LaRock. destroyed--or stands accused, on video-- of destroying his neighbor's property. And he got triggered when some video cameras and pride flags were there. And which he says we're just put up to provoke him. Well, shoot, man, this guy is the Rand Paul of Virginia. I'll tell you what, you don't want a neighbor like him. And I here by the way, he's moving into a new district.

Michael Pope

I'm stuck on the concept of being provoked by a pride flag.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, you know, I think that says more about him as a human being then as about his neighbors. But yeah, so it's, things are always wild. All right. Let's take a break, Michael, because we have a lot to cover. And we want to be here for the main event. So when we come back, we're joined by Holly Seibold. She led like we said earlier a six year effort to eliminate the sales tax on menstrual products. And this year, she finally achieved that goal. So we're gonna learn all about that six year struggle. Next, stick around.

Michael Pope

And we're back on Pod Virginia. We're joined by the founder of a group called Bringing Resources to Aid Women's Shelters you're probably more familiar with the acronym BRAWS.

Thomas Bowman

BRAWS recently achieved a major victory, eliminating the sales tax for menstrual products. But it was a hard won victory that took six years of trying and failing and trying and failing again.

Michael Pope

What they tried to do over and over again was eliminate the tampon tax. Now this year, lawmakers finally took action to eliminate the sales tax on menstrual products. That's after six years of trying buy bras. So pads and tampons will no longer have a state sales tax. And that's thanks to the work of our guest bras founder Holly Seybold. Thanks for joining us.

Holly Seibold

Thank you so much, Michael and Thomas for having me on your show.

Thomas Bowman

We're glad to have you, Holly. So let's start at the beginning. How did this issue first hit your radar?

Holly Seibold

Well, I had read an article in the Huffington Post about women who were working with domestic violence victims, through the organization dress for success and the story actually went viral. And it really made me think about how it would be such a challenge for me personally, if I was in this particular situation and not be able to access pads and tampons and bras and underwear and how particularly domestic violence victims who had been fleeing their homes in the middle of the night trying to get back on their feet, trying to gain independence, you know, make get a job and how they they have not having access to these products would really influence their future. And so I went and created an I went and organized a collection drive in my home and I asked for people to come and bring pads and tampons and underwear and and bras all brand new because we wanted to make sure that women in the situation feel dignified and empowered. So They wouldn't be able to seek a new job. And people were really excited. And they just had never thought about this. And they wanted to help. And so then I proceeded to donate them to three different local shelters. And the the staff of the shelters contacted me, it was like, Oh, my gosh, people are so excited about this, can you bring us more and so I at the time was, you know, I had tapped out all of my friends. And there was nobody that I had already asked to help. So I was like, What can I do to really bring in new support. So I reached out to local businesses and church groups, asked friends, to have friends to reach out to their friends, and ask for support. And before you knew it, we were helping many, many more shelters. And it was being scaled at a much higher level. And so by May of 2015, because a lot of people were asking to donate financially, I filed to become a 501c3 nonprofit BRAWS was born. And I'm here speaking to you today about it.

Michael Pope

So the more you learned about this, the matter that you got, and at some point, you realize the policy dimension of all of this. So there's two issues that popped out to you. One is that Virginia at that time, had a 6% sales tax on menstrual products. So that was a problem, you wanted to address it. And the other one was the pads and tampons, and menstrual products. Were not on the list of back to school exemptions for the sales tax holiday. So you reached out to your lawmakers, your local delegation, they're in Vienna, where you live, what kind of response did you get?

Holly Seibold

Yeah, you know, I, you know, providing direct service was very important to me. But at the same time, as you mentioned, I was really surprised about the lack of public policy and how it does not really meet the needs of women and girls in our Commonwealth. So I did reach out to mark keen, who was my particular delegate and and I also reached out to chap Peterson, who was my state senator. And I met with Mark and he told me that he had already tried and, and to introduce a bit bill and failed. And so he's a reluctant to really introduce it again, chap, you know, he empathized with with the need to reduce the tax. However, he definitely believed that there are some people who can afford to provide the tax. So it doesn't seem like a necessity to eliminate it.

Michael Pope

So you're striking out with your local delegation...

Holly Seibold

Right... So then I reached out to Jennifer Boysko who was a delegate at the time, she's now a senator. And she was excited about this issue. And we brainstormed on how we can introduce this bill and ways that would make it successful. We ended up calling it the Dignity Act. Because we thought at the time, it was best to remove menstruation and women from the name of the bill so that it got more traction down in a Republican controlled legislature. So to help with the success of the bill, we were excited to work with a connection newspapers, Vienna connection actually did an article about how this bill the Dignity Act is headed down to Richmond. NBC News, at the time came in to try to draw attention to the issue as well. So we were in a really good position by the time session began in January.

Thomas Bowman

So then Delegate Boysko introduce his two bills: one that gets rid of the sales tax on menstrual products, and another that adds menstrual products to the list of items that have a tax exemption for back to school week. So you wake up early in the morning, you drive down to Richmond for a 7am meeting, you stand up, you make a case, then what happens?

Holly Seibold

We knew it was going to be hard, because it was probably the first time that menstruation is like ever been talked about in the halls of the General Assembly. And we get down there and you know, I have my speech, I'm ready to share it. We speak in from the committee, and then move in a matter of minutes, the Republicans kill the bill classic.

Michael Pope

So I mean, that's classic. I mean, this happens all the time in Richmond, but like, from your point of view, you had never seen this happen before. Right? So like to be in the middle of it. Like when you've put all this time and effort into something and they kill it within a matter of it feels like seconds have gone by right? How did you feel at that point?

Holly Seibold

Oh, it was it was shocking, you know, I had never experienced it before we were felt prepared. As I mentioned, we had already, you know, the media, and we had support and I practice. And so it was like a very, it was very much. It was it was very, you know, it was agony of defeat. It was very upsetting. But my kids were there. And you know, we had a couple of supporters that were in the audience and we you know, we're at least happy to have been able to, to tell our story. And it was great, because it was the first time we had actually been able to go to the gallery and delegate Boyce go and invited us to be recognized and, you know, just really, it was a powerful moment. And it was, again, my first time experiencing such you know, being part of government. And so I was determined when I went home that day I was determined To continue fighting and not give up.

Michael Pope

So you keep up the pressure on lawmakers and you bring more of them on board. Right? So you started with boy scope, but then you get Delegate Kaye Kory involved, right? And she introduces a bill to make menstrual products available to people who are incarcerated in jails and prisons. What happened with that?

Holly Seibold

Yeah, well, you know, we still we're going to continue, Delegate Boysko still committed to introducing the sales tax bill each year. So we knew that that was already, you know, on the table. You know, we knew that it was going to be a harder sell with Republicans, but they did. During the year between sessions, we did get some support from Republicans on the on a bill that would provide access to those who are in who are incarcerated. And so we went down to Richmond, we like working with Delegate Kory, we were able to testify. There's another organization called Friends of guesthouse, who works with women who are trying to reenter society after being incarcerated...

Michael Pope

Great organization located here in Alexandria.

Holly Seibold

It's awesome. And those women were so brave and courageous. And they also came down to testify, and I think it was a really powerful moment. And so, but with bipartisan support, the bill passed. And then we had this amazing moment after it was signed by the governor. We were not after, during while it was being signed by the governor, we actually got to go to the third floor of the Capitol. And, you know, it was a very, it felt very successful at the time, we were making progress, but we knew that that sales tax was still ever present.

Thomas Bowman

At some point, even Republicans start feeling pressured on this and even Delegate Kathy Byron introduced a version of your tampon tax bill repeal, right, like what happens with Byron's bill.

Holly Seibold

So Kathy Byron has been on this committee for several years at this point, and she's very familiar with, with this with the Dignity Act. And so as a compromise, she introduced a bill that had gender neutral language and included, it was more about personal hygiene items that were no longer we're still not tax exempt that should be included bedsheets and toilet paper. machi also included menstrual supplies in that bill.

Michael Pope

So you've been working on this issue for quite some time. It's it's really focused on your menstrual products. How did you feel about Kathy Byron sort of expanding this to sort of a gender neutral way of looking at it,

Holly Seibold

Tampons and pads are not part of SNAP, people cannot use food stamps to purchase them. So bottom line is I'm happy when any legislator is working to reduce the cost of menstrual supplies. So you know, obviously, I'm happy that it included it and it will make it will make the life easier of the women and girls that we support it BRAWS.

Michael Pope

So thanks to the support of Kathy Byron, Delegate Byron works with I guess this is at this point, Senator Boysko. So Byron and Boysko working together, and you get a partial victory, which is you're not eliminating the sales tax, but it's reduced from like 6% to 2.5%. Right. What happened with that?

Holly Seibold

It was a compromise between Senator Boysko and Byron, they're able to reduce the tax partially from 6% to 2.5%.

Michael Pope

Okay, great! So then, Democrats take power, and you're optimistic, you might see some traction on this stuff, right? So you still can't get rid of the sales tax. But at this point, you're working to get menstrual products in the schools. And you actually bring a bunch of students to Richmond to testify. I was actually in one of these subcommittee meetings. Tell us about that experience.

Holly Seibold

Yeah, this was really important to me, as a former teacher, myself, students were missing class because they didn't have access to menstrual supplies in school bathrooms. We had done a lot of research during the year. And we were able to bring some of those students who had been so generous with their thoughts to Richmond, and they were able to testify in person. And their story was compelling. And again, with bipartisan support, the committee decided to move the bill forward, but it was going to be an unfunded mandate, which meant that yes, the state has said, the state had said that, that school districts must provide menstrual supplies in school bathrooms that serve middle and high school students. However, those school boards were going to be responsible for finding the money to fund it. And there are definitely districts in Virginia who were concerned about this because the cost for them was going to be significant. And so we still to this day, are working with some of those school districts to help them find funding.

Michael Pope

So just to review here this point, you've been able to successfully get menstrual products in jails and in prisons and in schools, and you've been able to cut cut the sales tax from menstrual products in half, but not yet eliminate it, right?

Holly Seibold

Right.

Thomas Bowman

Okay, so then Glenn Youngkin campaigns on getting rid of the grocery tax. And that opened the door to getting rid of the tampon tax. How did that come about?

Holly Seibold

Senator Boysko introduced the the tampon tax bill like she does every single year. But this time there was the circumstances were a little different. Because, as you just mentioned, Governor Youngkin campaigned on on eliminating the grocery tax. So Senator Boyce, go introduce her. So her bill that would remove menstrual supplies, and the Republicans are able to piggyback on that bill, to try to eliminate the state to try to eliminate the sales tax on all groceries. They were able to cut a deal. So the final outcome was that they were able to eliminate the tampon tax. And then they agreed to eliminate the state portions of the sales tax, but they'd kept the local government tax on. But at the end of the day, after six years of effort, through this compromise, we finally have the tampon tax has finally been eliminated from the budget.

Michael Pope

After six years of trying and failing and trying and failing. And this is important, for our listeners that might have issues that they want to bring before the General Assembly, is that you know that first time you go to the subcommittee meeting, you wake up at 4am, you drive the two hours down to Richmond, you make your presentation and they kill the bill in a matter of seconds. That that's not the time to give up. Because you can come back the next year, and the year after that, and the year after that, and the year after that. And finally, after six years, you've been able to achieve this goal of eliminating the sales tax on menstrual products. So how do you feel about that?

Holly Seibold

I feel fantastic. I hope it is a great lesson for your listeners that you know, if you have something that you want to change down in Richmond, try, pivot, tailor it to who is necessary, who is in majority at the time, try to get what you can pass and then don't give up because look what happened here. If you work with your legislators, and your community, and make people understand the importance of why this will make a huge impact on those who need it the most.

Thomas Bowman

I love that. It's a marathon not a sprint and six years is for a bill coming up as an idea and then eventually becoming a law is probably a little bit more accurate than anything you're gonna get out of Schoolhouse Rock, or your civics class and I I love this story, this narrative and of course, your overall goal and accomplishment. So congratulations, Holly Seybold. Thanks for explaining how you were able to win this major victory for people across Virginia.

Michael Pope

Thank you. Pod Virginia is a production of jackleg media. Our producer is Ariane blue. Our social media manager is Emily Cottrell. And our advertising sales manager is David O'Connell.

Thomas Bowman

Find us on Facebook or Twitter, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and hey, write a review on Apple Podcasts. It really helps people find the show.

Michael Pope

We'll be back next week with another episode of Pod Virginia.