Jordan Miles: The Trouble with Virginia's Gold Rush
Prospectors hope to strike it rich in rural Buckingham County, about 60 miles west of Richmond. Residents are worried the mining process will contaminate fundamental things like air, soil, and even drinking water. Buckingham County Board of Supervisors Chairman Jordan Miles joins Thomas and Michael to discuss why he thinks a ban on gold mining would be a good idea to protect his constituents--and where such proposals might stand in the General Assembly.
Episode Transcript
Michael Pope
On this episode of Pod Virginia, the gold rush, not the one that happened in the 1840s. The one that's going on right now.
Thomas Jordan Miles
The risks just simply outweigh the cost and the benefits.
Thomas Bowman
Jordan Miles is on the show today.
Thomas Jordan Miles
I am a politician guys.
Thomas Bowman
He's the chairman of the Buckingham County Board of Supervisors,
Unknown Speaker
it certainly would be pretty damn hard for a legislator to go home and explain how they voted against not putting poison in the ground.
Michael Pope
You are listening to Pod Virginia.
Thomas Jordan Miles
The best Virginia politics podcast and the Commonwealth.
Thomas Bowman
I'm Thomas Bowman.
Michael Pope
And this is Pod Virginia, where all that glitters is not necessarily gold.
Thomas Bowman
Prospectors who strike it rich in rural Buckingham County. That's about 60 miles west of Richmond. Residents are worried the mining process will contaminate fundamental things like air, soil, and even drinking water.
Michael Pope
And we've got the best guest to understand the gold rush and the upcoming debate and the next General Assembly session. He's chairman of the Buckingham County Board of Supervisors. Jordan miles. Thanks for joining us.
Thomas Jordan Miles
Yes, a pleasure to be here with you all. I'm a huge fan of your podcast, and I listen to it when I go jogging. And it's fantastic. The best Virginia politics podcast in the Commonwealth,
Thomas Bowman
We're gonna have to reintegrate those station callouts back into our show, Michael.
Michael Pope
All right, we want to talk about the gold rush. So gold was discovered in Buckingham County about two years ago. And now there is a rush to make a whole lot of money. And so I'm reading about this, and something jumped out at me, which was really interesting. And it has to do with prospecting. So if you're not mining for metals, you're just prospecting. None of these environmental rules apply to you. So you can be prospecting for gold there in Buckingham County as part of the gold rush. Dig a big hole, and that hole might end up polluting the groundwater. The James River is only a couple of miles away. So what's the deal with prospecting? It seems like this is a huge loophole. And is there an effort to close that loophole?
Thomas Jordan Miles
So prospecting comes for many different reasons. In some instances, if a farmer wants to build a silo or if someone wants to put a house on some questionable soil. Or if, for instance, we were looking for for a space to put a new public library in Buckingham several years ago, your core sample to see if to see what's under the ground but be to see if the soil can handle a structure or some sort of exploratory activity. In Buckingham, we consider it an accessory use. So it is by right to core sample, I do view it, Thomas and Michael, as a property rights matter in that if I owned this property or found leasing this property didn't have enough permission from the landowner, I should be able to sample and see what's under the ground, whether it's looking for minerals, or seeing if it's structurally able to support putting something on top of the soil. So I do think it should remain by right now. There are opinions that if you intend to mine or do something commercial, with the results of that, perhaps you should have to register with the county, at least letting the county know what's going on, what you're doing, or some sort of a permit. But right now, and in most localities, it is by right.
Thomas Bowman
So tell us about this controversy in Buckingham about gold mining. In your own words, what's going on? And why are some of your residents concerned?
Thomas Jordan Miles
A few years ago, the county learned of some activity going on near the James River in the northwest portion of the county. And we were sort of caught off guard, and they were exploratory mining, and at the time, we really didn't know what was going on. So we, the county, put a stop on things until we could figure out who, when, and where. And the and after that, they did resume, and that has continued that core sampling has continued after we did make it by right, and Aston Bay is an exploratory company that looks to see if there is, in fact, enough gold to make money to sell to a mining operation and to get investors excited as well. And they have found some gold. They haven't found a huge amount, is my understanding, but it is substantial. And so residents in that community, understandably and appropriately, do fear that a gold mine starts that a portion of their community, that the wells are going to be poisoned with cyanide, their air, they're going to see pollution, they're going to hear noise. And there are lots of concerns around health and lifestyle, frankly, and what could happen to the vegetation, what could happen to the animals, what could happen to the humans. And so that's something that the House bill that delegate Guzman introduced a few sessions back in terms of a study, and I am a member of that work group commissioned by the bill. And so we are concluding our work, we are finalizing our study with the National Academy of Sciences as part of this as well, and they have issued their study, which does state that Virginia does not have the regulatory framework to handle a gold mine. And I would have to agree with that just from looking at some of the existing regulatory procedures and policies, whether it's the Department of Environmental Quality or Virginia energy, which was DME. Virginia does not have what it takes, in my opinion, to regulate safely, and have an operating commercial goldmine.
Michael Pope
So you would like to see a ban, right? You are a member of this workgroup that's about to put out this report that will make recommendations. Are we likely to see a recommendation to ban gold mining in Virginia?
Thomas Jordan Miles
That's something I've been working on, along with some other workgroup members. There are those of us that would like to see a ban on any new gold mining or a moratorium. I would prefer the ban. So we'll see if that comes as part of our study. I'd like to see that. And, yes, speaking as a committee member of the workgroup, I would like to see a ban on gold binding across the Commonwealth. And I'm hoping the General Assembly will take our findings seriously. I have my doubts because I know how politics works. And it's an election year coming up for all 140 Of those folks. And so that's what I would like to see.
Thomas Bowman
So there's gold in Buckingham County. And you think that because Virginia lacks a regulatory framework, we shouldn't be mining it yet. But gold is used in all sorts of advanced manufacturing. And it's required for everyday items like lithium-ion batteries, electrical components, and a ton more. But material value aside, the 21st century is going to need a lot of gold. So America, at the same time, wants to mine it and have more resources like that here in the United States instead of China. So, supervisor Miles, why shouldn't Virginia mine gold,
Thomas Jordan Miles
Myself as a community member, someone who knows the people in this community, and someone who really cares about environmental justice and the environment and values clean water and clean air. Not everyone has that. I don't think that that community and I don't think the Commonwealth can handle it. I don't think they can handle it. I think it would be a detriment to the people in this community or in any community. And you can use that same argument about metallic metals. When it comes to copper, when comes to any other metallic metal that is used to program the computer that I'm talking about right now, my iPhone, that I like so much. My Apple watches that I like so much. So I certainly see the standard that you are making. But I would argue that this community in the Commonwealth doesn't have what it takes to safely do it now if we could safely do it. And if we did have the regulatory framework, it would be much different.
Thomas Bowman
Supervisory miles, central to much of the controversy here, is the fact that Virginia doesn't have those regulatory frameworks for metals mining, specifically gold. Instead, it mostly looks at sand and gravel mining, and of course, there's coal. So what kind of regulatory framework do you want to see? And what would make Buckingham County and its residents feel a lot better at night? If there were to be gold mining or prospecting or anything happening down the road?
Thomas Jordan Miles
Well, let me tell you what would make the people of Buckingham and other people concerned across the Commonwealth happy is if their locality using their zoning ordinance just banned it outright. We could have in the Commonwealth more people working for Virginia energy and more experts working for DEQ. But the risks just simply outweigh the cost and the benefits to me. It would probably be nearly impossible. And again, I'm not an expert, but I do know how local government works. And I know how to represent people really well. So I think that would make the people of Buckingham happy.
Michael Pope
You mentioned that you might actually support commercial gold mining and Buckingham County if there was a way to do it safely. What would be that metric? How would you know if it was safe or not?
Thomas Jordan Miles
Well, you wouldn't be using any harsh chemicals.
Michael Pope
Well, harsh chemicals are used in industrial settings all the time. Right?
Thomas Jordan Miles
I can't answer that question as embarrassed as I am about that. The study has really focused on what we have now, not what we want. And that is because the bill was written like that. The bill, that bill called for us to look at the regulatory framework as it exists not as we would want it to be, to have a goldmine if that makes sense. So we've been looking maybe a little too narrowly. One could argue about how the current regulatory framework is instead of how we could be improved to allow a goldmine.
Thomas Bowman
What I'm getting out of this is that we just don't know what we don't know yet. So if we do know that there's not a sufficient regulatory framework, your thought is we should be pressing pause on this until we can craft one. And by the way, we don't know what that should be yet,
Thomas Jordan Miles
Right, I don't have it in front of me. But I did recommend several regulatory changes to what DEQ and their policies presented to us, and also what the Department of Mines, Minerals, and Energy posed to us. But again, I was told by staff that we're looking at the current regulatory framework. We're not wanting right now to change what the policy and the regulations are. For instance, one of the regulations from DME said at least once or twice a year, and an inspector will come out and inspect the mind; well, it's got to be more than that; it's got to be like ten times a year because of what's going in the ground and the dangerous activities that are going on. I think there was another part where there was a small number of feet away from the mine that adjoining landowners would have to be notified if something happened. It needs to be more than that. And so those are two examples. I wish I had to put up in front of me, but I don't, but those are two examples of changes that would be needed. But a plethora of changes would have to come about.
Michael Pope
So it sounds like the changes that would need to come about are really based on the fact that currently, in Virginia, there is so little mining for metals, and all of the mining regulations are about things like crushed stone or sand and gravel quarrying. So I mean, because there is such a lack of metal mining in Virginia, those kinds of things are not in the regulations. So what would you say if Virginia were to improve those regulations and bring on some guardrails here for metal mining? Would you feel safe, then?
Thomas Jordan Miles
I would have to look at those regulations.
Thomas Bowman
Smart answer.
Thomas Jordan Miles
I am a politician, guys.
Thomas Bowman
Well, I learned that Virginia controls all the ground mineral rights in Virginia. So in some states, when you buy a property, it's your right, whether or not you want to mine on it or whatever. And maybe, like in Utah or Colorado, that would make sense if you've got a, you know, if you've got a gold vein on your property or something like that, but in Virginia, if it's in the ground that belongs to the entire Commonwealth. So if mineral rights are a state issue, supervisor Miles, is there a concern here that since Virginia owns the mineral rights to everything under the ground, no matter where you are, is there a concern that Virginia or the General Assembly could pass a bill that sidestepped whatever the local officials wanted to do people like yourself?
Thomas Jordan Miles
Sure, I wouldn't be opposed to that. And speaking of the Virginia Association of Counties, they would be opposed to that because we need to retain local land use and local control 100%, And that would be encroaching on dangerous territory because they could start to pick other things that they like and tell us you don't have a damn thing to do with that. So don't address it in your zoning ordinance because you're parents in Richmond know what's going on.
Michael Pope
Virginia doesn't need to reinvent the wheel here. Mining for gold goes back, you know, kind of a long way. I mean, aren't there established protocols for mining it safely that have been established over a long period of time?
Thomas Jordan Miles
For aggregate mining? Sure. Like gravel and, for instance, clonite and things like that, but not necessarily for metallic mining. And that's what we've found.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, actually, I went down a weird Wikipedia rabbit hole several months ago, years, maybe at this point on gold mining in Virginia, and learned that right as things were kind of getting ready to start up. There are some interesting prospects when there are a lot more coal mines, actually, just in the middle of Southside Virginia. There used to be some in Midlothian. But when we were getting ready to start up metals mining, that's when we, of course, colonized the West, right, which is a lot richer. The gold is coming out of the ground, and Utah, the uranium comes out of the ground, and Utah, you could just walk right over it. And it's wide open spaces, no previous ownership. And it was a lot more conducive to binding because there were no regulatory zoning laws; for example, of course, there were Native American tribes. But the United States law did not respect those tribes and the first name of those rights. But because of that, the point is that in Virginia, it never really took off. There were some early colonial-era gold mines. There were some early American gold mines along the James River and all that area, but it never really took off. So it never really got the modern industrialized mining companies and regulations that states out West did. Alright, that's all the time we have for today. Remember, folks, if you're looking to mine gold, do the residents of Buckingham County have a solid look elsewhere? Board of Supervisors Chairman Thomas Jordan Miles, thank you again for joining us.
Thomas Jordan Miles
Thank you. It's been a pleasure.
