Karl Frisch, Vice Chair of Fairfax County's School Board, joins Michael to discuss last week's elections in terms of school boards across the Commonwealth. By and large, it was a rejection of book-bannings and anti-trans policies, with big wins for moderate and Democratic candidates in many localities, including some that went for Governor Youngkin in 2021. They also discuss the rise of several Fairfax County School Board members to statewide office, and how that will impact the incoming General Assembly as leadership power shifts away from Northern Virginia.

Episode Transcript

Michael Pope  

My name is Michael Pope. And this is Pod Virginia, a podcast that is looking ahead to future elections to understand what culture wars might mean for politics, especially school board politics here in Virginia. And we've got a great guest; he is currently the Vice-Chairman of the Fairfax County School Board, and he's soon to be the Chairman as of January 1st. Karl Frisch, thanks for joining us.

Karl Frisch  

Thanks for having me. Longtime listener. 

Michael Pope  

Thanks for listening and for coming on the podcast. I want to open it up to your general reaction to the election results. Which I think could be described as a rejection of banning books and a rejection of bullying trans kids. Would you agree with that?

Karl Frisch  

Yeah, it's a repudiation of the Youngkin agenda and banning books and the opposition to inclusivity, you name it. This was a repudiation of the attacks on public education, which have been relentless over the last several years. So it's it was a big day.

Michael Pope  

Now you say, relentless there in Fairfax County where you are? There were several attempts to recall sitting elected officials. Walk us through that, and what happened with all that? 

Karl Frisch  

We had several unsuccessful recall efforts. We had several recall attempts against incumbent school board members over the last few years; the ones that garnered enough signatures went to court and were thrown out because you can't just recall somebody for a difference of opinion on policy in the Commonwealth of Virginia, so those were thrown out. 

Michael Pope  

To be clear about the recall effort, who paid for all that? 

Karl Frisch  

An organization was started and funded with more than $100,000 in dark money; according to campaign finance reports, that money was spent on professional signature gathering and other things designed to bring these recalls to fruition. Of course, it's not clear whether or not they had the signatures to begin with for the recalls, but when they did go to court, they failed on the merits because you cannot recall somebody simply because you disagree with their politics.

Michael Pope  

So, Fairfax County School Board has become a launching point for members of the General Assembly. Three of your members are moving from the school board to the statehouse: Laura Jane-Cohen, Karen Keys-Gamarra in the House, and Stella Pekarsky in the Senate. This will be a historic level of influence for the Fairfax County School Board getting representation in the General Assembly.

Karl Frisch  

I certainly hope so. Look, Laura Jane, Karen, and Stella understand the unique challenges we have in Fairfax County. When our general assembly colleagues talk to us about matching funds for teacher pay raises, many parts of the Commonwealth counties are getting a 50/50 match. Still, here in Fairfax, we get less than 20% of the funds needed for these pay raises because of how funding is decided. And, of course, there's a JLARC report that explains the need for reform on this front, and I have every confidence that Laura Jane, Karen, and Stella will be among those leading the fight to finally bring funding formula changes to the Commonwealth so that everybody has access to quality education. 

Michael Pope  

They will be there in Richmond, representing Fairfax. But all three of those new members will be freshmen.

Karl Frisch  

They will be among many freshmen, though, so.

Michael Pope  

Right, and obviously, they will have seniority based randomly on the incoming class. The point I was going to get to, though, was that we're seeing a diminution of the influence of Northern Virginia, with many of the most senior leadership people moving away from Northern Virginia toward Hampton Roads. As you mentioned, Fairfax is in a unique position because of the scale, frankly, and so many rules that apply to most school divisions don't apply to Fairfax because it's so large and complicated. Are you worried about the leadership at the General Assembly not knowing or, frankly, not caring about Fairfax County?

Karl Frisch  

I think that the Democratic majorities care about public education, and having the experience that Laura Jane, Karen, and Stella bring to the legislature is going to be critical for us; you know, they will be able to stand on the floor and express how this impacts our community in a way that is, deeply impactful. So, you always want seniority, for sure, but experience counts as well, direct experience at that.

Michael Pope  

So, the candidates for Fairfax County School Board that the Democratic party endorsed swept all the seats. Explain that; how did that happen? And tell us about your new school board members.

Karl Frisch  

Well, to put a finer point on it. After years of attacks, all 12 of us, the Democratic-endorsed candidates, won our elections this past week. At the at-large level, we have three at-large members who represent the entire county, and they won by a little bit more than a 65,000 vote margin over the Republican-endorsed candidates. And that is way up from where we were in 2019. Four years ago, the Democratic-endorsed candidates won by a 44,000 vote margin. So, it's more than a 20,000 vote increase since 2019. This is even though Republican candidates for the school board in Fairfax County had 75% more money in their campaigns than in 2019. And at the district level, you've got nine Democrats who won their magisterial districts, many of them by larger margins than the Democrats did in 2019. In my case, I won almost 67% of the vote, up from 62% in 2019 and more than 1,000 more votes than I did in 2019. So, the message here is that the fundamentals of public education are what people care about. I went door-knocking with a reporter during the campaign; we knocked on doors for several hours together. During those conversations, we talked about bus routes, school renovations, teacher retention, the need for better mental health support, and all sorts of issues that people are thinking about when it comes to our schools. Not a single person asked me about bathrooms, not a single person asked me about CRT, not a single person asked me about watering down our history curriculum. And so candidates who focused on the important subjects that voters actually care about did very well in this election this year, up and down the ballot in Fairfax County and other places.

Michael Pope  

And tell us about the new incoming members. 

Karl Frisch  

Well, in the Dranesville district, we have Robin Lady, a career educator who recently retired from FCPS as a Director of Student Services. She won by a hefty margin over her opponent and will be a great addition. I think probably the most high profile of late has been Marcia C. St. John-Cunning, who was elected in Franconia despite the fact that Republicans tried to remove her from the ballot not once, not twice, but three times unsuccessfully. She won by a nice wide margin as well. She's a longtime FCPS employee who worked as a family liaison with schools in her district. We've got incumbents Melanie Meren in Hunter Mill, Richard Anderson in Mason, and Rachna Sizemore Heizer, who was at large ran in Braddock this year, and one. Additionally, we have Sandy Anderson, who ran in what many people would consider to be the most conservative district in Fairfax County, and she won by an extensive margin over her opponent. She's a STEM curriculum developer and a former PTA leader. Seema Dixit is a small business person and a Foundation founder in the Sully district; she won by a wide margin and is also a former PTA leader. Mateo Dunne ran in the Mount Vernon district and won by a large margin. He is a lawyer and a former PTA leader. And now I'm going to say I've probably forgotten somebody; oh, Kyle McDaniel ran at large; he's a father, a pilot, a small business owner, and a great guy. And then we have two returning board members, who previously served on the board and ran at large, Ilryong Moon and Ryan McElveen, who are returning to the board at large. So we're looking forward to having a board, continuing to be focused on what every family wants for their kids, and making sure that they have a safe and inclusive school with world-class educators who are committed to getting them everything they need to succeed. 

Michael Pope  

You mentioned critical race theory a minute ago. I want to follow up on that because in the election, when Glenn Youngkin was elected in 2021, obviously, this was a huge issue on the campaign trail, and Republicans got a lot of political benefit out of this despite the fact that it was not taught in Virginia schools. This is a legal theory that's taught in law schools. It's kind of like saying we're going to teach the concept of proximate cause in third grade. It's just ridiculous. However, they successfully persuaded people that this was a danger, and clearly, it motivated voters in 2021. They tried to do that this year with ESG. But that didn't work. Why do you think that's the case? 

Karl Frisch  

Well, people focused on what matters in our schools, not just in Fairfax County. Look, Glenn Youngkin did not do well here in 2021. I think he won two or three precincts in the entire county. And you've got a lot of Republicans here now scratching their heads about why he wasn't there for them in Fairfax County in this election. And candidates across Virginia who focused on the fundamental issues parents care about were elected in Loudoun County, Spotsylvania, and Glocester all over the Commonwealth. You have examples of nuts and bolts leaders who are committed to making sure that their kids and their district have what they need to succeed and that they have great teachers. And that's without much help from the governor, mind you.

Michael Pope  

Let me ask you about that. What do you think was going on there? The governor has the ability to raise not just money but record amounts of money. Terry McAuliffe was the previous record holder in terms of money. And Youngkin lapped that several times in terms of the amount of money he could raise. Why do you think it is he didn't share the wealth with these conservative school board candidates across Virginia?

Karl Frisch  

For Glenn Youngkin, it was never about the school board. It was about himself. He has shown in his time as governor that public education is only really front of mind for him if he can turn it into a culture war issue that he can use to propel himself nationally. This is a guy whose first real action as governor was to, you know, set up a tip line for people to complain about their teachers, which he's never used. Can you point to a single example of him talking about it since the day it was launched? This is a guy whose education department had a math error that, you know, cut millions of dollars in school funding for students who need it most and who are economically disadvantaged, and they never fixed it. This guy's education department has been slow in teacher certifications and a host of other issues. So, if he cared about education, he could have started there over the last two years, but he didn't. And so I think conservative school board candidates are waking up today, scratching their heads, wondering where he was for them. And he wasn't there for them. We'll see how much money he has left after these final campaign finance reports come out. But you know, whether it's Glenn Youngkin, statewide in Virginia, or even Pat Herrity, here in Fairfax County, whose last report said he had $150,000 left in the bank. I think you've got some very angry people here in Fairfax County and elsewhere who blamed governing Youngkin for their failures.

Michael Pope  

I want to walk through some of those elections, specifically Loudoun and Spotsylvania. So, let's start with Loudoun. If you watch Fox News, which many of our listeners probably don't do, but I do. They talk about Loudoun all the time. This television channel is devoted to covering Loudoun County politics. Still, they could not, even with all of the potential Youngkin money they had access to and the politics around CRT and Fox News, aiming their big media microscope at Loudoun County. Democrats were able to gain a majority, so what's your perspective on what happened in Loudoun County regarding the election results?

Karl Frisch  

Well, I think everybody knows that Loudoun has been ground zero in the culture war attacks on public education. But after this election, when you know anti-education organizations put hundreds of thousands of dollars into the races there, progressives maintained a solid majority on the school board there, I think a 6-3 majority. So, those attacks did not fare well for the far right.

Michael Pope  

Do you think that's a fulcrum for Loudoun politics?

Karl Frisch  

I can't speak to that. I can tell you that it's not dissimilar from what we've seen in other places: candidates who focused on the bread-and-butter issues of public education were rewarded with votes on election day, and those who focused on internet-driven conspiracy theories and culture war issues did not do well. 

Michael Pope  

Well, speaking of internet-driven culture war issues, let's move down to Spotsylvania County, where there was a school board member who openly advocated for burning books. I remember when I first read about this, I questioned if he said that. So when I went to watch the video online, he openly advocated for burning books during a school board meeting, which was recorded for posterity. He lost, so tell me, what's your perspective on what happened in Spotsylvania? 

Karl Frisch  

Well, this is an interesting one because Youngkin got 66% of the vote there. And so we've certainly seen the cultural war at play in Spotsylvania; in fact, things have gotten so bad there. I believe they even went to four-day school weeks for a time, if not currently because they don't have the teachers to staff their schools fully. They fired the superintendent, which looked like a backroom deal of some kind, all kinds of weird things going on; we in Fairfax County were able to point to Spotsylvania and say, this is what happens when you elect anti-education advocates to the school board. And despite all of that parents and educators pushed back hard. And progressives won a majority on the board there again, despite the fact that Youngkin had 66% of the vote there just two years ago.

Michael Pope  

So we talked out loud about Spotsylvania, the peninsula, James City County, and Williamsburg. I know one of our dedicated listeners, Randy Riffle, who was successful out there. What do you think of the election out in James City County Williamsburg?

Karl Frisch  

I think Randy's election is a good example of voters rewarding somebody who's focused on the issues and really taking the time to get to know them. This is somebody who knocked on doors and communicated with voters about the issues they care about. He was rewarded with a seat on the school board. I think it's fantastic. Even in Gloucester, you've got examples of a fairly conservative county typically run by far-right interests. And they flipped not to a Democratic majority per se but to a more moderate bipartisan majority, with some more moderate Republicans and Democrats getting elected. They're on their school board. So you're seeing examples of this all over the Commonwealth. And don't get me wrong, there are examples of more extreme members getting elected to school boards. Goochland is a good example, where moderate conservative board members were pushed out in favor of Qanon following anti-vaxxers and pro-January 6th people. But by and large, there are a lot of great examples of public education winning at the ballot box on Tuesday.

Michael Pope  

Goochland says that one more time, explain what's happening in Goochland. 

Karl Frisch  

Well, they had a fairly middle-of-the-road conservative board there, as far as I'm aware, and their majority kind of was pushed out by some folks who are election-denying QAnon followers, anti-vaxxers, January 6th type people. 

Michael Pope  

Okay, so this is not a 100% victory here for the forces battling book banning and bullying trans kids, and this made-up CRT nonsense because that, I mean, it sounds like those candidates were largely successful in a lot of these key races. However, it sounds like people on the other side of those issues were also successful in this election, right?

Karl Frisch  

In some places, yeah. And you can't have blinders on to ignore places that need more work. So I think that that's an area where more progress needs to be made, but for a movement that started over the last two years to reclaim the School Board in favor of public education for our students and families—tremendous progress in Tuesday's election all over the Commonwealth. Even in Albermarle, you've got an at-large member of one of the most expensive school boards and races on record, well over $100,000 for each candidate. In Allison Spillman, the Democratic-endorsed candidate was victorious. They're over, I believe, Antonin Scalia's daughter or granddaughter, so we're seeing, you know, signs of Hope all over the Commonwealth. And my hope is that this foreshadows where we're going to be in two years in the next governor's race when our newly installed democratic majorities and in the General Assembly are reelected. Hopefully, we end up with a Democratic governor who cares about our public schools.

Michael Pope  

Well, I know you hope this will be a fulcrum and a turning point. However, I'm not convinced about the polling shows. I'm going to ask you about some of the polling that happened during the election, specifically on transgender students. So there was a poll, I think it was the George Mason Schar school poll, that happened late in the election cycle that had two specific questions about transgender students. And they were both probably alarming to people on your side of this issue. One was about bathrooms; the other was about sports. And so, the majority of respondents to this poll didn't like the idea that students could choose their gender in terms of which bathrooms they used, and they didn't like the idea of transgender girls competing in sports. What do you make of that? And what do you think the future is of, where are politics heading on that issue?

Karl Frisch  

Well, I think part of it is how people also weigh the importance of issues, right? And so when I talk about these things with voters or others, I talk about how important it is that we do everything we can to make sure that students show up ready to learn and be successful in our schools. And that means helping them so that they don't have to carry the weight of the world on their shoulders through our hallways. And when we put forward policies that ensure privacy for all of our students in the bathrooms and locker rooms, etc. And we protect our LGBTQ students by having inclusive schools; everybody benefits. And I think you're going to find that as we kind of move forward here, the salience of this issue on the right may maintain because it's good fodder for them on conservative media, but I don't think it's going to have legs in the long run. I'm old enough to remember when they were trying to keep gay and lesbian people from teaching, working in schools, or being on overnight trips, and everything else. So I think people would be shocked if somebody tried that today.

Michael Pope  

Let's talk about the political salience that you just raised. I mean, there is every indication that Republicans will continue to use this on the campaign trail, and it clearly polls well; for them, this is an issue where polling is on their side. What would you say to future candidates that might be listening to this now, in terms of the messaging needed to hear when someone, a voter, comes up when their door knocking, and a voter says, well, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of boys deciding that they could use the girl's restroom, and there might be some danger there. And I heard on Fox News that they're using it to sexually assault girls in the bathrooms. And then there's the whole sports thing, which is a separate issue that excites people in terms of the high passion issue here. What is the message to those parents who are concerned about this stuff? 

Karl Frisch  

I think you have to enter the conversation with respect for everybody, right? And second, you have to begin the conversation on verifiable facts. And so if somebody has been misled or is advancing misinformation, I think you have to politely explain to them how that information is inaccurate. Then, you need to talk about the shared values, what we want in our schools versus what we don't want in our schools. And I think everybody agrees that every student should be treated with respect and dignity and that our school should be safe and inclusive for everyone. Then we can have a conversation about what that looks like. I don't think anybody wants a student to carry the baggage of adult politics when they enter our schools. But they want to make sure that every student is prepared in our schools and ready to learn when they're there. 

Michael Pope  

Alright, one final line of questioning. I appreciate your time and coming to Pod Virginia. I'm curious if you could give me a preview of the chairmanship of Karl Frisch. So, you are about to become the Chairman of the Fairfax County School Board as of January 1st. So, come 2024, it'll be Chairman Frisch; tell me about your agenda for leading the school division. 

Karl Frisch  

Well, in Fairfax County Public Schools, we have a flat board. And so I hope that the year ahead for Fairfax County Public Schools includes a budget, which we will tackle early in the new year, that prioritizes teacher pay and staff pay and a continued effort to have targeted interventions to help people with COVID-19 learning loss. We also remove barriers to success that many English language learners, students with disabilities, and those who are of lesser income experience in most schools, so I think if we can remain focused on those issues, we'll be successful as a board. I know that my new and incoming colleagues and those already there are passionate about these issues and ready to get to work. Well,

Michael Pope  

specifically, what are you? What kind of specific agenda items do you have? You mentioned low-income students in particular; what can we hope to see happen there?

Karl Frisch  

Well, I think in a couple of ways, we've talked about looking at our budget in terms of where we might be able to find savings to do more targeted investments in schools. And we also have a new strategic plan, that's a seven year plan. And part of that is built on an equity commitment that includes more equitable funding for our schools. So that's one way that we can help students who maybe are on free and reduced meals; there's a great interest in expanding the number of students who receive free meals in our schools; the USDA Department of Agriculture has recently changed its formula, allowing school divisions to increase the number, I think for us, it would be about 20% more students who would receive these meals if we can find the money for it because the feds are not giving us money for it just yet. So that's one way I think for English language learners, for example, I think we have a number of things that we need to be doing, from increasing access to translation and interpretation services to making sure that we are digging in deep, especially with students who are, we call them our SLIFE, Students with Limited or Interrupted Formal Education, making sure that their families are connected to our schools to ensure their success. A lot of this is budget-dependent. So we're going to have to see where we are when the budget comes around the cycle. And we'll target our investments accordingly.

Michael Pope  

So, I appreciate you walking us through the particular investments you're hoping to make. You started that line of answer with the discussion about potentially finding some savings, which is probably more difficult; where do you think you can pick up some savings? 

Karl Frisch  

Well, 90% of our budget goes towards pay and benefits for staff or our teachers and our educators and staff. And so we have what we call the program budget. And we shall see. I think many of us are committed to finding savings by looking at every program that we've got and determining whether its salience is still there and whether it is still accomplishing the goal that it's set up to do. 

Michael Pope  

Do you think there are already programs that have lost their salience that you might want to take a critical look at,

Karl Frisch  

I would definitely like to take a look at the entire program budget, which is something that we've been talking about for years, as well as our school system. And I think we're probably hitting a critical mass in terms of the need and want to do it. I'm not speaking to what specific programs might be considered because we need a real analysis of all those programs so we're not pitting one against another. Most people assume that school board members have robust staffs, offices, and whatnot, and we don't. So, we will end up asking the superintendent for an analysis of various things to come back to us with ideas on whether things are still providing the efficacy that we want or if the money could be spent better in another direction. And that's important, especially if we want to make the case for additional funds. 

Michael Pope  

Alright, Mr. Vice Chairman, soon-to-be Chairman of the Fairfax County School Board, Karl Frisch, thanks for coming to Pod Virginia. 

Karl Frisch  

My pleasure.