Markus Schmidt: Marie March Charges Wren Williams With Assault, Battery
Delegate Wren Williams and Delegate Marie March face each other in a primary in HD-47. Photo courtesy of Cardinal News.
Michael Pope
I'm Michael Pope.
Thomas Bowman
I'm Thomas Bowman.
Michael Pope
And this is Pod Virginia, a podcast that's already taking a look at 2023.
Thomas Bowman
That's right. The '23 primary season will be one of the most interesting ever, and part of the reason for that is we have just so many races where incumbents are facing other incumbents.
Michael Pope
Yeah. And that brings us to one of the most fascinating Republican primaries in recent memory. It pits incumbent Republican delegate Marie March against incumbent Republican delegate Wren Williams.
Thomas Bowman
So joining us to understand this primary fight, which we mean literally, is Markus Schmidt at Cardinal news, Marcus, thanks for being on the show.
Markus Schmidt
Of course. Thanks for having me today.
Michael Pope
So before we get into this primary, I want to do a shout out here to Cardinal News. You guys are celebrating your one year anniversary. Congratulations!
Markus Schmidt
Thank you. Yeah, we're really excited. You know, we started a year ago. And we started with literally with nothing with very few donations, very few requests, zero readers, really. And now we are, you know, being read statewide. And it's definitely a big success for us. We're very happy about it. We didn't see that coming.
Michael Pope
Yeah. And, you've got this big story here. That's that's a live one right now. So let's get into it. This Republican primary here in Southwest Virginia, I want to start out by talking about the candidates who are these people? Let's start with Marie March. So she is representing the seat that was vacated by former Delegate Nick Rush. And some people see her as kind of like an Amanda Chase 2.0, right? So like, Who is Marie March, and what is she like to be around?
Markus Schmidt
I think that's a fair description. Some people have also compared her to Lauren Boebert, or the congresswoman because they both share their fascination and passion for guns and gun rights and gun rights legislation. Marie March is a business owner, she owns several restaurants in Floyd County, and she was actually present at the January 6, stop steal rally in Washington, DC and January 6 2021. And when she was elected in the first legislative session earlier this year, she really didn't do much in terms of accomplishing anything. She sponsored a bill that would have allowed public school systems in Virginia to place In God We Trust decals and school buses, and the bill failed and committee but March said at the time that would help identify the communists and the legislator. And she also sponsored the bill to remove--and a little bit more serious side-- the so called Red Flag Law which allows authorities to take guns away from people that are deemed dangerous to themselves. But this bill also failed. So you get an idea of where she's at politically.
Thomas Bowman
Alright, this story has another key player Delegate Wen Williams last year he knocked off incumbent Republican Charles Poindexter. How did he manage to defeat a longtime incumbent Republican Markus?
Markus Schmidt
Well, he has been a Republican player in his home district for a while he's young, he has been able to motivate a lot of people to go out and vote and to support the Republican Party again. And I think he has injected some, you know, new energy into the race. And also he's a diehard Trump supporter. He was one of the attorneys in Wisconsin on President Trump's team trying to challenge the election results from the 2020 presidential election in that state. So, he has met with President Trump at least once that we know of, and that is very helpful in his district which is very Trump leaning.
Michael Pope
Alright, so that sets the stage here and these two incumbents that we're talking about are facing each other in a Republican primary. This is kind of an unusual situation cuz We got redistricting, which threw a lot of incumbents in districts with each other. So this is one of several primaries that we're going to see next year where you've got two incumbents facing each other. That's the kind of thing that only happens like once every 10 years. And so here we are in an election cycle where you got incumbents versus incumbents. And, gosh, things are getting rough. And I mean, rough, literally. Markus Schmidt explained to us and our listeners what happened last weekend.
Markus Schmidt
Well, last Saturday, there was the ninth Congressional District Gala and with Will at the meeting center, a local event venue in town. And the event was hosted by the Republican Committee of the district and was also attended by Congressman Morgan Griffith from Salem. So a lot of you know, the southwest Virginia, Southside Virginia political players were present. And it was about 8:30pm. Between 8:30 / 8:45pm when most people were already on their way out. Congressman Griffin was gone already. So what happened when Delegate Williams was about to leave, he is married, his wife is two months pregnant. And he said he was trying to make his way out of the ballroom in the venue, when he walked through a small group of people there, including Marie March, and he bumped into her. Now his side of the story is that he just briefly bumped into her turn around, said I'm sorry, and he left the room. Her story, however, is very different. She said that he she was body slammed by Delegate Williams, she stumbled, she almost fell down. And she looked at it as a physical assault and bullying. So she immediately alerted police officers who were at the venue, and one of the officers followed Mr. Williams outside and confronted him in the parking lot as he was about to get into his car.
Thomas Bowman
And that's kind of where this story takes an interesting twist. Because according to a recent report you just filed right before we started recording this, Marcus, you just FOIA'd that that video. And your story says that what Marie March might have told these cops doesn't match up with that footage.
Markus Schmidt
Well, there's you know, we have to understand there several videos. And that's the great thing about you know, maybe it's even a bad thing depends on your position about, you know, year 2022. You have video cameras everywhere. So we have surveillance footage that we received last night that shows two separate incidents, one shows the actual alleged assault, it's some very grainy footage that was kind of filmed from far away, you can't really make out who was who... We had to figure it out by really repeatedly looking at it. And you can't really see Wren Williams bumped into Marie March, but you can see a move through that little cluster of people and you don't see anyone any of you know, any silhouettes or any any shadows of anyone stumbling or falling. So in that regard, you can say, well, you know, it didn't really match with what Marie March was saying. Then there's another video from the surveillance video from that venue that shows Marie March talking to police officers. It doesn't have any sound, but it shows her just gesticulating, and she was trying to kind of reenact of how he bumped into her and she pretended to stumble. So that was her side of the story. So but we saw the police officers and the video so we submitted a Freedom of Information Act request this morning with the with with police department. And they sent us the two clips, each one from each officer. And the one clip that shows the Officer Lester confronting Mr. Williams in the parking lot. And surprisingly, Mr. Williams did not agree to even state his name. He didn't want to address what happened and he asked if the officer would place him under arrest. When they said well, you know, we could we got to figure out what's happening. He said, "Well, if I'm not being arrested, I'm gonna get in my car and leave." He seems to be clearly taken off, you know, caught off guard by the incident but at the same time, he is an attorney he knows that you know, sometimes it's better to not say anything and I think that's the path he chose to for this particular situation.
Michael Pope
All right, so just to review here, there are three different videos the first video is sort of security camera footage, it sounds like it's grainy, it's difficult to make out. But you really don't see Delegate Wren pushing Delegate March in the way that she's describing it that's how you describe that first video...
Markus Schmidt
Right...
Michael Pope
...And then there's a second video where she's speaking to police, and kind of reenacting it for police. And then a third video of body cam footage of officers speaking to Wren. Did I get all that correct?
Markus Schmidt
Yes, there's actually a fourth. From each officer there's a video, but they're almost identical. So you know when we're talking about the comfort, you know, the officer confronting Delegate Williams outside that's basically two videos from from just two different angles but the same video the same content.
Michael Pope
Alright well, let's focus on that first one: the security camera footage of the actual incident. It sounds like that's the only footage that we've got the actual incident itself. You said it's grainy, it's hard to make out, you actually had to watch it several times to figure out what what you were looking at. But it sounds to me like, from what you have been able to learn looking at this video, it doesn't really look like he pushed her. Is that right?
Markus Schmidt
You can see it the video doesn't show it. I'm just very careful. Because you know, you never know the circumstances how how people were standing and maybe covering the situation. The point that we try to make with that particular story is that the video itself does not prove that Marie March was right, that you know, that that's what happened. It didn't confirm her story. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen. You just you know, it's very hard to tell. We just don't see anyone stumbling or you know, there's no, no signs of violence at all in that situation, he just kind of moves through this little group of people. And the whole incident takes maybe five to six seconds and he walks out.
Thomas Bowman
Now, obviously, in hotly-contested primary elections, there's a lot of emotions going around. And also, stories can get exaggerated for political gain. But is there a history of bad blood between these two that we know of Markus?
Markus Schmidt
No, we don't actually. And from what I understand this, they don't even really know each other that well. And when I did my first interviews with both candidates earlier this year, at the beginning of the legislative session, they didn't really say anything about each other, you know? And I think they knew already in the back of their head, that the primary was up on the horizon, because in December, the Virginia Supreme Court had redrawn the district. So there were already they already knew that they were going to be the same district together. So I think they were just kind of careful observing each other. They were both part of the Southwest delegation. But what I've heard from some of my sources is that that Marie March is definitely less liked and welcome among Republicans in the caucus, than, Mr. Williams is. And that is because she's seen as more extreme who just kind of revels in controversy, you know, those kinds of situations... while Mr. Williams has at least, you know, he has done something for his district. For example, he was an important player and bring in a new investor to reopen the shuttered Patrick County Hospital. That's a very big deal for the community because the the county was left without a hospital urgent care facility after the hospital shutdown four years ago... four or five years ago. So there's some accomplishments that he can show while there's really very little that Marie March has to show other than creating controversy.
Michael Pope
So walk us through the process here. So Wren Williams has been charged with a class one misdemeanor, what's what's next for this case?
Markus Schmidt
Yeah, the process. I mean, technically, he could have been arrested on the spot because there was enough probable cause. But the police officers decided not to do that. I don't know why. The video doesn't really give any ideas of that. But after Mr. Williams had left, Marie March, told the officers that she would like to file charges against him. And the officer offered to escort her to the magistrate's office and with Will, which is where the charges were filed. And then the office says at least one of the officers called Mr. Williams at home later at night and told him that the charges have been filed. And there is a court date set for an arraignment for November 21 at 8:30am. And that's obviously going to be a very interesting event to attend.
Thomas Bowman
You know, it's interesting, I just pulled up from the ACLU of Virginia that they do say while the constitutionality of the request is not necessarily clear, the established precedent is that if a cop does request your identifying information or your name, you do have to provide it to them. So I don't know if there's a charge associated with that. I can't find anything while we're here talking but interesting that a lawyer, a trial lawyer would refuse to even identify themselves.
Markus Schmidt
Yeah, and that's, you know, that's what surprised us. When we watched that video. We really, we FOIA'd the video because I was interested in hearing what Marie March told the officers when she was, you know, in that second surveillance video from the previous that we got last night... when she was trying to reenact or kind of recreate how she had been pushed and how she was stumbling and almost fell. And I was I wanted to hear that. So I didn't really expect to see this confrontation between the police officer and Wren Williams that came as a surprise to us as well.
Michael Pope
You mentioned you were eager to hear what Marie March said. What did she say?
Markus Schmidt
It was literally really a reiteration of what she had told me in person when we talked on Sunday morning about it, that Mr. Williams had been in an angry mood all night he had interjecting himself into several discussions between supporters of Marie March and other Republicans. And he was visibly upset and in an aggressive mood. Again, that's her words, and I'm paraphrasing here. And that's when he when he left that he pushed his way through that group. And she also said and reiterated as well, that while there was this group of people out, most people had already left the event. So there was actually an you can see that in the surveillance video of the incident. There's a lot of space in the lobby, yet he chose to go through that group of people. So the she, she claims that there was intentional that he wanted to bully her that he wanted to, yeah, to push her just as property as a sign of strength or domination. You get the idea...
Michael Pope
On that issue. I mean, this case is somewhat complicated by the fact that the what we're looking at here is charges of a man shoving a woman. So I mean, that is something to keep in mind as you think about how this unfolds, right? I mean, like, there is there is a gender dynamic at work here that influences how people think about all this, right?
Markus Schmidt
Yeah, absolutely agree with that. And I think, you know, she... Marie March may not be a longtime politician, but she's pretty savvy politically. So I'm sure that no matter what truly happened, she seized the moment and used it to her political advantage. That's for sure.
Thomas Bowman
Let's get into that real quick. I know, it's still early, but do you have a sense of how this is playing out in the district? What are people in southwest specifically in this district, saying about this incident?
Markus Schmidt
From what we hear? Really, it's, it's kind of like a divided response, you know, and I think that's, it depends on if you're Marie March supporter, of course, you're gonna believe her. If you're Wren Williams supporter, you're gonna believe him? Or at least you're gonna say, Well, you know, there's really no proof here that anything wrong on the intent is obviously important. And that's what's gonna be a key... a key moment in court is did he do this intentionally? Or was this an accident? And so right now, it's really, really hard to say what the dynamics are in the district. I think it's also important to note that she has several witnesses that are named on the warrant. And when I started calling this witnesses, it turned out that most of them were actually staffers. One of her legislative aides was there...an intern... So these people, and I talked to some of them, of course, they're gonna back her account, you know. So it's a little, you know, it's difficult to find out somebody who was truly unbiased walking into this and saying, "Okay, this is I really just want to find out what happened. I'm not, I don't really have, you know, any investment in this race."
Thomas Bowman
So the staffers, obviously, as witnesses are all on Marie March's payroll. Do we have a sense of how that would play out in in court with their testimony be taken as seriously as somebody who wasn't on this person's payroll?
Markus Schmidt
Well, I mean, if they're testify under oath, I guess it would, you know, I don't think that I absolutely think that will be taken seriously. Although, you know, it will be always with that, you know, with that knowledge as well, that they work for her. She, you know, she pays them so. But again, oh, you know, given the testimony under oath in court, it's a pretty big deal.
Michael Pope
I'm wondering about the potential downside for swearing out this warrants. You know, I, when I first heard about this, my first thought was, is there any precedent for something like this, like, can you think of any, you know, political rivalries that have gone on to be, you know, physical altercations? And, you know, if you think back, like to the 19th century, there was like, dueling that happened, right? I mean, like, I guess there is some precedent going way back in the distant past, but I don't I can't think of any sort of recent example of this kind of a thing happening, right?
Markus Schmidt
Absolutely not, and especially not in the same party. You know, these are Republicans. And if you've read my story from this morning, or what you actually posted last night, we of course, we reached out to Speaker Todd Gilbert and ask him and, you know, he is a former attorney. And he said, very clearly that I know, I know the law long enough to know that I'm not going to inject myself with an opinion about something like this, especially in such a politically charged climate. So Republicans don't want to talk I reached out to several of them, and they they won't comment on this.
Michael Pope
I'm wondering if there's a potential downside here for Marie March. So I mean, right now, she kind of has the upper hand because she's got this warrant. She's making her opponent look bad. And is there potential for blowback? Right? I mean, like, if, you know, if he prevails in court, or can in some way, weaponize this against her I mean, like, does she come out the winner of this, or is there are a potential downside for her engaging in this process?
Markus Schmidt
Of course, the way the court case will play out is going to have a big impact on that. But one of the main things to consider in this situation is there really at least as as of right now, there is no definite proof of what really happened. So it's a he said-she said, situation. Yes, there are a few witnesses who said, you know, support what she says. But they're her employees for the most part. So as long as there is no definite footage now, there's some footage that popped up that clearly shows that you know, what looked like an accidental bumping into her and he apologized and walks away... that would make her look bad. But right now, I think if if there was such clip, we would already have it. So for now, even if he gets away with it, I think it will be more like yeah, it was hard to prove that it happened because we didn't have to the footage, but hey, believe me, it really happened. I know. I will stay there, you know. So I think that's there's really not a downside for her. I think that really the the downside is for Wren Williams, because even if this all goes away, at some point, everybody will remember this. And that's going to haunt him.
Thomas Bowman
You know, this is drawing some interesting commentary on social media from Virginia politicos. I want to point out what Brad Haywood tweeted out on September 25, shortly after you broke this story, he is the founder and executive director of Justice Forward Virginia, and a public defender in Northern Virginia as well. And he says, "Of course, no idea what actually happens here. But [he] can't help thinking that had Marie March been a cop, Delegate Williams would be facing six months of mandatory minimum jail time, and a lifelong felony record." And one Democratic delegate who is actually rallying in support of Delegate Marie March is Delegate Candi King who wrote, "Sending out serious thoughts and prayers for Delegate Marie March, I don't agree with her on almost anything, but women deserve to feel safe and free from harassment while doing their jobs. This type of behavior needs to be publicly condemned by the Republican leadership." So that's an interesting cross section, different opinions across ideologies, where you have Democrats and advocates weighing in, and then also the Republicans are very quiet here, surprisingly, or maybe not.
Markus Schmidt
Yes, it's very true. I mean, we are in, you know, still in the midst of the me too era. And so we are in a situation where usually when a woman makes such an accusation against a man, then yes, we'll give her the benefit of the doubt, you know. And it's almost like Wren Williams will have to prove that he didn't do it. So and that's not, you know, my personal judgment on this. It's just an observation. But you're absolutely right. Republican leadership has been very quiet on this. I reached out to Congressman Griffith, because he was the, you know, the special guest at the event. And we heard back saying, Well, he did not witness the event. No further comment. And again, I quoted earlier, Speaker Gilbert, he didn't really want to address this. He wants to see this play out in court. I'm sure that speaker Gilbert did not have a good Sunday. And I'm sure there was a lot going on behind the scenes. I've heard a little bit, but most Republicans don't want to talk about it, at least not in public.
Michael Pope
Well, one final question before we let you go, and we really appreciate you joining us on pond, Virginia. So this district, is Carroll County, Patrick County, a part of Henry County, Floyd County, Galax City. So that's kind of the area that we're talking about here. I'm wondering, is this the issue of the campaign moving forward? I mean, like, we, you know... Oftentimes, what you see in these kinds of primaries where you got two, you know, candidates from the same party challenging each other is that it's really not about policy or positions the candidates have, it's way more about, like biography and who they are, because they kind of agree on issues. I'm wondering, will this shoving incident actually end up being the issue in this campaign? Or are there other things that people should be looking at in terms of this particular Republican primary early next year?
Markus Schmidt
That's an interesting question. You have to you have to look at these guys. I mean, if you look at the presidential election in 2020, you had Trump go against Biden, so you can expect Trump to go by the Trump playbook. So you know what's going to happen but you also you can expect Biden to go after his playbook meaning you know, I'm gonna be trying to be better than that. I'll you know, if they go low, we stay high, all of that. But in this particular case, you have two young freshmen lawmakers who both play after the Trump playbook. And they're going against each other. So this is really a very unique situation that we have never seen before. We are, at least now, eight months, nine months away from the primary. We don't even know if it's going to be a primary might be convention. You know, that's what Marie March is pushing for because she's the kind of candidate... kinda like Bob Good in the Fifth Congressional District, she will be very good at riling up people at a convention and getting the delegates to back her. That's what she wants. While Wren Williams, would rather go the conventional way and have an actual primary election. But in this particular case, again, there are both Trumpers, they both have this type of playbook, they both crave the attention. My guess is that this is not the last thing that's gonna happen. You know, I don't I'm not saying we're gonna see more violence between the two of them, but I'm saying we're gonna see a very, very ugly primary that's coming up.
Thomas Bowman
All right, well, there's clearly more to come on the story. For the latest check out Cardinalnews.org so you can keep up with it as those developments happen, thank you for your reporting, Markus Schmidt.
Markus Schmidt
Thanks for having me guys. Appreciate it.
