Partisan Enthusiasm, Geriatric Incarceration, and the Politics of Abortion
IN THE NEWS: But 10 percent of Democrats in a recent poll by the Wilder School at VCU say they would prefer Republicans control the House. What's going on there? In the last decade, the population of people over the age of 55 who are incarcerated in Virginia has doubled, increasing from 7 percent to 14 percent. Advocates say that's because of over-policing of vulnerably populations, as well as the abolition of parole back in the 90s. Of the dozen races where Republicans are targeting Democrats running for the House of Delegates, only two so far are races where Republicans are raising the issue of abortion rights — House District 97 in Virginia Beach and House District 82 in Petersburg. What's behind the gap on the topic of abortion, and how do the political conversations intersect with the real stories of Virginians? At the Watercooler: The money committees are set to meet in the coming weeks...but there are still no budget amendments, and it's looking less likely as time goes on.
Episode Transcript
Michael Pope
I'm Michael Pope.
Thomas Bowman
I'm Tom Bowman.
Stephen Farnsworth
And this is Pod Virginia, a podcast that did not make the finals of the Women's World Cup.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, but they don't talk Virginia politics like we do, though. So everyone's got their strengths, Michael.
Stephen Farnsworth
OK, let's get to the news. Enthusiasm gap. If you ask Democrats who should control the next House of Delegates, you would expect them to say Democrats, right? Well, that's what most of them say. But 10% of Democrats in a recent poll by the Wilder School at VCU say they would prefer Republicans control the House of Delegates. I asked former governor Doug Wilder about this last week.
Michael Pope
Only 80% of Democrats in your poll say they want a Democratic majority in the House. That was dumbfounding to me. What did you make of that number?
Governor Douglas Wilder
I'm still as dumbfounded as you are; I haven't been able to wrap my arms around it. It's, it's, it's confusing to me. But it's what people think.
Thomas Bowman
It's what the people think. There's got to be some explanation of why 10% of Democrats in this poll want Republicans to control the House. Maybe it's that same logic, Michael, that makes only four out of five dentists think toothpaste is good. But here's a possible explanation from Jennifer Victor at George Mason University.
Wanda Bertram
When you have 10% of the out party saying that they are OK with the status quo or the other party controlling the legislative chamber, that says something to me about some preference for the status quo. It could also be a sense. And we've seen a little bit of this in recent election cycles; we are seeing sort of a renewed interest among some voters for ticket-splitting, which is where a voter will vote for one party in one office and another party in another office.
Stephen Farnsworth
Yeah, if you look at this poll from VCU, the Senate numbers were different, which is kind of interesting. 88% of Democrats say they want Democrats to control the Senate, but only 80% of Democrats say they want Democrats to control the House. What do you make of this enthusiasm gap?
Thomas Bowman
Off that top line, I'm just as dumbfounded as Governor Wilder is. I will say, though, that Virginia does have a pretty long history of ticket-splitting up until very recently, as far as political history goes. So there's nothing entirely new about that. There's a gender gap where a majority of men want Republicans to control the House, but only a plurality of women want Democrats to keep control of the Senate. I will also point out, Michael, that's historically how it breaks down for se, certainly, at least in a pre-Trump era. So, there's nothing new there. The thing that stuck out to me with the wording of that question was that there were two things: one, why might somebody prefer Republicans or Democrats control one party or the other?
Stephen Farnsworth
Yeah, they didn't ask who you're going to vote for. They asked Who would you prefer control?
Thomas Bowman
Yes, exactly. That's not a question asking: Who do you plan to vote for? There could be all sorts of reasons why you might prefer one party or the other, and it's not necessarily going to translate to a vote. The other thing that jumps out at me, Michael, is there are a lot fewer Republicans today than there were in 2016, for example, and certainly a lot fewer people who consider themselves Republicans than in 2016. And that might tell us something about this 10 to 20% of people who self-identify as Democrats now, but we don't know for how long they've self-identified as Democrats still preferring Republican control over the House. So, if you know they've only recently switched to voting for Democrats, they may still certainly have some ingrained sympathy for the Republican Party in control of at least one of the chambers of government.
Stephen Farnsworth
Yeah, we are talking about a self-selecting group of people here. These are people who tell the pollsters at VCU, hey, I'm a Democrat, and I prefer Republicans control the House. Unfortunately, you don't get to cross-examine these As documents; I wish you could because I want to meet these 10% of Democrats that prefer Republicans control the House, like, who are these people want to say that? The other really interesting thing that jumped out at me at this poll was they looked at age groups. And so what you found is the youngest cohort was very strongly in favor of Democrats, that the kind of Gen Z voters, they want Democrats to control the House, they want Democrats to control the Senate. But then, you know, once you get past the age of 25, you don't get strong majorities until you get into like baby boomer territory. So this means that you have a lot of millennial voters out there who just aren't sure what they want. I mean, like, there's a plurality here, there's a plurality there, but you don't really see a lot of strong majority support the way you do with that youngest cohort of Gen Z voters. What do you make of the kind of millennial malaise?
Thomas Bowman
I don't know what to make of that, Michael; that's also weird to me. I wish I had something substantive to say in response, but I guess what I would point out is that it's just one poll. And we would need to have not just this but other polls to confirm that this data is valid. I've also seen some concern over the wording of various questions. Why did they word something this way? Or why did they ask that question? But the most striking element of this poll, of course, Michael, is nothing that we've talked about yet.
Stephen Farnsworth
Yeah, to be fair, the headlines from this poll are all about Youngkin. In the presidential race, I was actually focused on these two questions about the House and the Senate. But yeah, the Presidential stuff actually got a lot of interesting discussion.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah. And, of course, the summary of the headline for that. One is that, you know, in a head-to-head matchup against Joe Biden, Glenn Youngkin is the only potential Republican contender who would win his home state in a matchup against Joe Biden. So, I think that is fascinating because, officially, Glenn Youngkin is not in the race. The Washington Examiner actually suggested that perhaps this would make it a little tougher for him to say no. I don't know if he's decided not to run or if he's still thinking about it. But that headline in that VCU poll might give him something more to think about?
Stephen Farnsworth
Well, so the polling from VCU was pretty strong for Youngkin. But if you look at the other presidential contenders, I don't know about DeSantis. DeSantis is very popular in Florida. If you think about his recent reelection, the margin of victory was overwhelmingly in favor of DeSantis. So, the idea that Biden would beat DeSantis in Florida, I don't know if I buy that.
Thomas Bowman
Hey, man, we're just reporting the other people's news. Well, that was to be clear.
Stephen Farnsworth
The Washington Examiner pointed that out. I mean, like, if there's polling data out there that says that that's interesting and worth thinking about. I mean, like, I think the polling data that we just went through with VCU, I think a lot of people were like, what I don't I'm not sure that I buy that. That's what the polling data says.
Thomas Bowman
It's a very nice thought that Joe Biden might be able to beat DeSantis in Florida. Look, I certainly would love for that to be true. And it is so early that none of these polls truly matter yet. They're interesting. There's something for us to talk about in these segments. But the reality is, we've got a long way to go before November of 2024.
Stephen Farnsworth
All right, but we got a short way until our next story. Exhausted incarceration. Now, in the last decade, the population of people over the age of 55 who are incarcerated in Virginia Prisons has doubled, increasing from 7% to 14%. That's according to a new report from the Prison Policy Institute. Wanda Bertram at The Institute says part of the reason for that is the over-policing of certain populations.
Wanda Bertram
When we send police to scenes where someone is having a mental health crisis, and they arrest that person, or when there's a law in a state that prohibits something like sleeping in a public park. So we're now criminalizing that; that means that there are more people who are homeless or mentally ill who end up behind bars, and that skews the population older.
Thomas Bowman
Another important reason for the granting of people incarcerated in Virginia is the abolition of parole back in the 1990s. Shawn Weneta, at the ACLU of Virginia, says all those tough-on-crime laws have turned prisons into nursing homes.
Shawn Weneta
There's a direct line between that and the enactment of truth in sentencing and the abolition of parole and elimination incentives for rehabilitation and elimination opportunities and mechanisms for review. That is the driver in Virginia, which is costing us hundreds of millions of dollars a year.
Stephen Farnsworth
Yeah, so here is a shocking statistic. This is something to think about. If Virginia were an independent country, it would have the highest incarceration rate in the world the highest incarceration rate in the world. So, if lawmakers here in Virginia really are serious about reducing mass incarceration, they should do a few things to bring back the parole system that was ended in the 1990s. Getting rid of all these mandatory minimum sentences instituting compassionate release? There is a menu of options to look at here. I mean, you really want to ask the question, OK, you got all these older people in prisons? Does that really keep communities safe? Like keeping people in prison who are in their 60s 70s and 80s? Is that making any community any safer? Is it a good use of public dollars? You know, I mean, like, these are kind of serious questions that we're confronted with because we have a mass incarceration issue in Virginia. And you really got to ask yourself, Is this the best way to do things?
Thomas Bowman
Yeah. And clearly, it's not Michael because the drivers of what's putting people in prison is not just, you know, abolition of parole, right? We've got substance abuse problems, we've got over-policing of homeless populations. When I was an intern in a law office, I recall one case that we were assigned was a homeless person who was arrested for trespassing or vagrancy or something like that. And the prosecutor knew what was going on. The homeless person himself knew what was going on. The defendant, in our case, knew it was going on. And, of course, the judge knew what was going on. If you or I got busted for trespassing, we would be led out on a release, find perhaps, and then, if the cops even arrested us in the first place, but in this case, everybody knew that this person was looking for a safe place, because often homeless shelters are not safe places, and certainly the streets are not safe places. They were looking for a place where they could get a couple meals and shower, and medical care is a big one. And so the judge, in this case, in this very, like skewed, warped version of reality we live in, had to say like, OK, well, you know, 10 days in jails, and presumably, that let the person get what they needed. And I think they had been in jail before and were familiar with this group of attorneys. So, none of that needs to happen because we could be investing in our social welfare safety nets and making sure that not only can this person get on their feet, but they can pay it forward to be a productive member of society in the future.
Stephen Farnsworth
Yeah, this report from the Prison Policy Institute goes state by state over these numbers. And so what we're seeing in Virginia here is over-policing of homeless people, over-policing of people with substance abuse disorders, and over-policing of people who have mental illness. So those are groups of people who all need services. Is it the best course of action to deliver those services behind bars? Or is there a better way to get homeless people services where you don't lock them up to get people to substance abuse orders where they're not in prison? To help people who have mental illness? Instead of locking them up? Maybe have them in a center where they could receive services and treatment? Where they're not incarcerated? It does seem like there's got to be a better way of doing this than having the highest incarceration rate in the world.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, I mean, how does this help people, like, as our community is actually safer by, like, keeping Grandpa in prison?
Stephen Farnsworth
Well, let's move on to our next story. Risky Business of the dozen races where Republicans are targeting Democrats running for the House of Delegates. Only two so far are races where Republicans are raising the issue of abortion rights, so no Democrats bring up abortion. Republicans are bringing up abortion rights in House District 97 in Virginia Beach and House District 82 in Petersburg, both toss-up races. Now, in both cases, Republicans are charging Democrats to support elective abortion until the moment of birth. Michael Feggan is the Democratic candidate running in that toss-up race in Virginia Beach. And this is what he told me last week about that attack.
Michael Feggan
It's misleading, it's false, is offensive, and is dangerous. That is just not how simply medical care works. These anti-abortion politicians and groups are they're not telling the truth and not describing exactly what happens. Not only is it misleading and dangerous, but it lacks compassion for families who have to make these series of difficult decisions with their providers.
Stephen Farnsworth
So Feggan tells me he's running on preserving the existing law, which protects abortion rights through the second trimester and requires three doctors to sign off on abortions in the third trimester. So that's existing Virginia law. That's what vegans want to preserve. Republicans on the campaign trail are hoping for the 15-week ban, that is, Glenn Youngkin's 15-week ban; they're hoping that's a winner for them on the campaign trail. So here's the question, Thomas: Is it a good idea for Republicans to be raising the issue of abortion?
Thomas Bowman
It's quite possible that they've got some internal polling that suggests if they were to bring up abortion in this specific context, it would have a political advantage for their candidate and certain specific districts. I think you have to look toward Ohio to see just how universally unpopular the Republican position on abortion is. I'll say this to Democrats who want to criticize such a tailored attack as misleading and a lie. There's no requirement and campaign politics to tell the truth; I think we've seen that over and over again, and unfortunately, these lies can work. So that's part of what you sign up for is a game of hardball when you decide to run for office, and they could very well win a race or two, depending on the specific district, based on those misleading representations and lies, because truth is not prerequisite in political campaigns. And I would also point out to Democrats that it's a wedge issue on purpose. Every minute you spend talking about abortion is a minute you're not spending talking about other very popular policies; historically, democratic economic policies have been very popular with the people. And then, in the 1980s, Republicans realized that if they made Democrats talk about a constitutional amendment to ban abortion instead of the economic things that they want to talk about, then the Republicans could beat Democrats.
Stephen Farnsworth
But this is the Democrats' top issue. So I mean, like, it is interesting that Republicans are raising the issue that Democrats want to talk about, and in many races, this is not an issue where Republicans want to answer questions about what their abortion policy is. They've got this 15-week ban thing. But then, if you start digging down into well, what about this situation? What about that situation? What about, in this case, and like, these are issues that people in your family might be dealing with? You might have a sister that is dealing with this, a cousin, a neighbor, and you know, the details of how all this stuff works. It gets really complicated really quick when you start talking about the real world and how these policies actually translate to people's lives, which is why the Democrats want to talk about this on the campaign trail. So it's really interesting that the Republicans are bringing this up, and it kind of seems like a gamble. Here's Stephen Farnsworth at the University of Mary Washington.
There are a few things more risky in politics than choosing to talk about an issue that is a loser for your side. Polls have consistently shown that Democrats have the advantage on the abortion question. And that advantage has gotten bigger in the wake of the decision by the Supreme Court to reverse Roe versus Wade. So yeah, Farnsworth is pointing out that their polls consistently show Democrats have the advantage. However, I will point out this recent Christopher Newport poll, which agrees with what Farnsworth just said but also complicates it a little bit. OK, so the Christopher Newport poll said 67% of people in Virginia say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, a huge, overwhelming majority of 67%. However, when the same people in the same poll were asked about the 15-week, 51% supported it. So Republicans feel like they're on pretty solid ground, supporting the 15-week ban the most solid ground that could possibly be on, and they also are going after Democrats who have supported this Amendment that Democrats were trying to do earlier this year. Our listeners may remember during the General Assembly session, there was this Amendment that Democrats say codified existing Virginia law, which protects abortion through the second trimester and requires three doctors to sign off on abortion in the third trimester; that's the existing Virginia law. That's what Democrats say; the Amendment did Republicans say that's not true, that Democrats are lying, Democrats are misleading you, that the Amendment actually would allow abortion up to the moment of birth. So on the campaign trail, they're saying anyone who supported that Amendment or said they would vote for that Amendment if elected, they're actually supporting abortion up until the moment of birth. So, they feel like this is an argument they want to make on the campaign trail. They want to raise the issue in Virginia Beach and Petersburg, and I guess we'll have to see if that's a successful strategy or not.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, Michael, I think the important takeaway that you listening at home need to understand is in every specific case, whether it's at 15 weeks or 6 weeks, or at 39 and a half weeks. In every specific case, reproductive health care decisions are made only between that person, that family, and the doctor, and that government has absolutely no place in that conversation. And neither do the rest of us, by the way, because that's such a personal decision. And there are all sorts of legitimate reasons why it might need to happen. And Michael, I actually got permission from Rachael because, in many ways, I'm disgusted that this is an election campaign issue that either party thinks that they're able to take advantage of, and I get, you got to do what you got to do to get elected. And we certainly do want to protect, at least in my family, we want Democrats in charge so that they will protect reproductive healthcare rights, but I've got a personal story to share. So, I haven't talked about this on the podcast before. But back in September of 2022, my wife and I, who had been trying to get pregnant all year, found out we were pregnant, and then shortly thereafter, we found out that the baby was not viable and that we would need to terminate the pregnancy because, at one point, we thought it was Atopic and then realized that it wasn't Atopic, but it still wasn't viable. And we had to have not one, not two, not three, but four attempted abortions over the course of about six weeks, the entire time knowing that the fetus was not viable. And it destroyed my wife. Emotionally, it destroyed me. And it was one of the most painful things to ever happen in our life. We were so excited to be parents and have a kid. And every time we turn on NPR, every time we turn on the news, we hear about how you know Roe v Wade at the time was at risk or then later overturned. It was triggering just to have that in the news cycle. At the time, it was such a cruel thing to have happened and not be able to do anything ever turn away from it. Because everywhere you turn it to what people were talking about, you look at the headlines, you look at the turn on the news, you talk about how either one party is trying to defend your right to have an abortion, and another party is trying to take it away and play all of these, like stupid fucking games, about what ifs and all of these case studies and the bottom line is that it's so triggering to people who have gone through this that for over a year now. We weren't allowed to talk about it, and we didn't want to talk about it. The zeitgeist has gone in a direction that is so sickening to both of us that she has let me share this story and said it was finally OK because we now have another child on the way. And we're due in September. But for a while, we weren't sure if she would ever be able to conceive again. And certainly, if we were beyond this 15-week ban or whatever, which we eventually got to for the end of the attempts, that could have destroyed her uterus and not killed her at one point. And yeah, they say, Oh, the life of the Mother, the life of the mother. Well, that's bullshit. Because if you have taken an unviable pregnancy to term when you're forced, you can actually destroy your ability, it can destroy your uterus, it can destroy the ability of that woman to ever conceive again, in some cases, and so it doesn't matter when it is, it's an important decision. It's a personal one; it's one that is never getting taken lightly. And it's such an unhelpful political dialogue that, you know, I really hope that some of the people who are listening to this, you know, just it's often done in the name of religion and protecting life. And all of this stuff and, and I would like those people to think and consider some of the things that they you should have learned in Sunday School, which is, you can tell Christians by their fruit, right, so to observe the fruit, the fruit of the Spirit being love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, self-control, these lies the damage that these abhorrent policies or even if it's just rhetoric, the damage that this causes people cannot, and that theology and that faith tradition cannot come from God. Christians are commanded to think and act differently. And so when you've got a political consultant saying do this unethical thing, do that unethical thing, rip apart people's hearts by putting their reproductive health care at risk, fire that fucking consultant because they are not telling you to do good things, are telling you to do bad things, and you don't need to listen to those people.
Stephen Farnsworth
Wow, that's that's really a harrowing story. Thomas, thanks for sharing that it is a reminder that these decisions made by elected officials reach into the doctor's offices. As you were just sharing your own personal story. I'm thinking about our listeners, you know, being in a doctor's office and, here comes the senator walking into the doctor's office saying, No, you can't do this. No, you should do that. And I mean, like, medical decisions probably should be made by medical professionals and not people who are elected. I think that's a proposition most people probably could support, although maybe not, I don't know.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah. And to the Democrats who are running on it. Look, this is just one perspective. But this is our perspective in light of the story I just shared. Shut the fuck up. We don't want to hear it either because of how damaging it is. Maybe I don't need to say it in those words, but, like, it's not necessarily as helpful as they think it is. Just to keep this in the news.
Michael Pope
All right, let's take a break. When we come back, we'll head around the Commonwealth, play a round of trivia and read your comments.
Stephen Farnsworth
It's time to go around the Commonwealth. In Newport News, the school board decided that a first-grade teacher getting shot in the shoulder by a student could not be written off as a mere workplace incident.
Thomas Bowman
The reasoning comes from the court case of Duh v the. Why in the hell would anyone ever classify it that way?
Stephen Farnsworth
Because Virginia uses more air conditioning and this hot as-ever summer, Dominion Energy wants to build another natural gas plant in Chesterfield County, despite natural gas being a huge part of climate change.
Thomas Bowman
It's like if someone had a cavity in their tooth and decided to cover it with Laffy Taffy, your solution is the problem.
Michael Pope
Laffy Taffy. In a Prince William County election, a candidate who could not get the Democrat's endorsements switched to the Republicans after they offered him theirs. Another 19-year-old party hopping in Hanover County. The school board has been criticized for using a book selection guide more or less written by the anti-LGBT group Moms for Liberty.
Thomas Bowman
Liberty! The power to do as one pleases, unless you're gay or like to read books they don't like.
Stephen Farnsworth
The Washington Metro Rail Safety Commission says that automated trains are not safe to use yet, citing issues that could create a catastrophe if not addressed.
Thomas Bowman
A catastrophe, if not addressed, is also Trump's new campaign slogan.
Michael Pope
All right, let's play some trivia. So last week, we asked you which Virginia newspaper added the word NIMBY to the lexicon,
NIMBY, as in Not in my backyard.
Not in my backyard. But the newspaper that coined that phrase is actually in our backyard. It's the Daily Press of Newport News. And our trivia contest has a winner.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, you've heard his name already on this podcast and as a winner before Shawn Weneta of the ACLU.
Michael Pope
Yes, Shawn Weneta, you heard him talking about mass incarceration in the last segment; now he's making a return as the winner of our trivia contest this week. Thomas, hasn't he won this thing before?
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, I'm a super fan, and that's who your competition is, the ACLU, so you guys gotta get on this trivia stuff.
Michael Pope
Thomas, tell him what he's won!
Thomas Bowman
A bumper sticker that says, 80% of Democrats like Shawn Weneta.
Michael Pope
10% of Democrats like somebody else. All right, so congratulations to Shawn Wenetea when he was the first person to get the right answer, but he's not alone. Boyd Walker also chimed in with the right answer, although Shawn Weneta hit the buzzer first.
Thomas Bowman
All right, so what's the trivia question for this week, Michael? OK,
Michael Pope
This week is fun. Our trivia question this week is about a famous mountain in Virginia. It's the name of the mountain in Shenandoah National Park that Harry Bryd climbed every year for his birthday. But there's more to the story than that. In 1952, When Francis Pickens Miller challenged Bryd to the Democratic primary for the US Senate, Bryd actually challenged Miller to climb the mountain. So they were in this hotly contested Democratic primary, and Bryd challenged his opponent to climb this mountain. So keep in mind, Harry Bryd was like 65 years old at the time, and the other guy was like 57. So, the columnist at the time started reading the candidate's mountain climbing abilities and predicting who would finish first. But alas, the hike never happened. And Bryd ended up winning the 1952 primary anyway, even without this hiking contest. So here's the trivia question. What is the name of this famous mountain that Harry Bryd climbed every year for his birthday?
Thomas Bowman
If you think you know, hit us up on social media.
Michael Pope
All right, so let's head over to the water cooler.
Thomas Bowman
All right, Michael, what are we talking about today?
Michael Pope
All right. Well, I'm looking at my calendar. And I'm looking at the rest of August. And I'm seeing a very important date here next week, August 23rd. So this is next Wednesday, a week from Wednesday, is when the money committees are going to have that annual meeting. So, the House Appropriations Committee and the Senate Finance Committee will be meeting in Richmond, and the governor will be there to make a presentation. And so you got all these people in the same room at the same time, but guess what they don't have or at least they don't have yet.
Thomas Bowman
What's that?
Michael Pope
Budget amendments: We still don't have budget amendments for the last general assembly session. So all of those bills that they passed earlier this year, that require any amount of funding, none of those things are funded that huge mental health reform that Governor Youngkin wanted to create mobile units and crisis receiving centers, and none of that's been financed like nothing has been financed. We're like coasting on this two-year budget that was passed last year. We haven't funded any of the new priorities. And now we're getting to this date on our calendar next week when the money committees are going to meet in Richmond. And as of the recording of this podcast, we still don't have any movement toward any kind of agreement on budget amendments.
Thomas Bowman
What are you hearing? Do you think that there's some agreement in the works? I understand Barry Knight sent over a Republican proposal several weeks back for Democrats? What's going on?
Michael Pope
Well, this is part of the problem with doing this all behind closed doors and these secret closed-door conference committees that are not open to the public and not open to the press. All we have are smoke signals. We don't really know what was going on in these rooms. So the Democrats had a recent proposal, and Republicans had a recent counter-proposal. Who knows? I don't know. And also, even among the money committees, there's only a small handful of leadership people that are really doing this stuff anyway. So I mean, as the clock keeps ticking every day that we go by without any budget amendments, we're getting closer to just not having budget amendments as we've already done. Our listeners will recall we talked about this on the podcast way back in the early 2000s. The General Assembly never got around to passing budget amendments, and there was one year when they just didn't have budget amendments. And I think that's seems like it's pretty clear. That's where we're headed right now. All right, let's open up that Pod Virginia mailbag. Thomas, what are our listeners talking about?
Thomas Bowman
Hey, our academic discussion of the diverse field of candidates really sparked a little controversy on X. So a friend of the show, Kevin Saucedo-Broach, reacted to it this way, two white men spend 10 minutes patting Virginia Democrats on the back for substantive candidate diversity with little to no mention of representation for Latinos, Asians, Queer people, or the Indigenous.
Michael Pope
Yeah, good point. I would say I agree.
Thomas Bowman
We agree.
Michael Pope
Yeah, we've agreed: too many candidates have too often been too white and too male for too long. So what I was trying to do with that segment was point out this historic number of female candidates on the ballot this year and the historic number of Black candidates on the ballot this year, which I thought was interesting and worth talking about. Alright, so should we have also talked about Latino candidates? Yes, Asian candidates, Queer candidates, Indigenous candidates, yes to all of the above. So yeah, I would actually wholeheartedly agree with that assessment.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, for sure. And I guess that's the parcel of trying to cram an issue into 10 minutes; there's no possible way we can cover a discussion like descriptive or substantive representation and do it justice in the 10 minutes or so that we give to that one particular news topic. So yeah, we hear you loud and clear, Kevin; you're right.
Michael Pope
Yeah. And on the issue of Latino candidates, it is really interesting. Juan Pablo Segura, of course, is in this toss-up Senate race in Loudoun, and he could very well likely be the first Latino in the Virginia Senate. And he would not be alone as Don Scott might end up being the first Black man as Speaker of the House, maybe Locke might end up being the first Black woman to be leader of the Senate, Danica Rome might end up being the first Transgender woman in the Senate after being the first Transgender woman in the House. So I mean, like, there is a whole lot of diversity in a whole lot of areas in Virginia.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, and Michael, as it coded to that conversation, I think it's really important to point out to avoid some misunderstanding; I also saw flying around that it is entirely possible to be both substantively representative and descriptively representative. They are not mutually exclusive categories. So there are a couple of knuckleheads on Twitter that assumed because I happen to say that Mamie Locke was descriptive representation and Surovell was substantive representation. And they have inferred that I was dismissive of her. That is incorrect, and that is absolutely not accurate to the academic discussion we had; you can be both substantively representative and descriptively. Representative. That is, how it can work.
Michael Pope
We also heard from the State Fair Project, who loved our episode with former education secretary Atif Qarni, posting this on X. Another great listen: Atif explained thoroughly the latest policies for Virginia schools concerning transgender students, a follow-up from his appearance at a recent Virginia woman's Summit.
Thomas Bowman
And also a follow-up to his appearance on the podcast last year on May 16th, 2022, when he joined us to talk about the transgender policy that he helped implement during the Northam administration.
Michael Pope
Yeah. And we also heard from people making a correction to what I said about early voting starting this month. That doesn't start this month. It starts next month, so 45 days; math is not my strong suit, Thomas. 45 days until Election Day is next month, not this month. So there you go. Early voting does start early, but not that early.
Thomas Bowman
All right. Well, let's get to the fun part. Birthdays. Yeah, let's celebrate some stuff on the calendar. Monday, August 14th, is Pakistan Independence Day, the day Pakistan declared independence from the British Empire in 1947.
Michael Pope
Wednesday, August 16th, is the birthday of Delegate Carrie Coyner of Chesterfield.
Thomas Bowman
It's also National Airborne Day, honoring the airborne armed forces.
Michael Pope
Plus, it's the Reverend Dr. Wyatt T. Walker Day honoring the Petersburg pastor who became chief of staff to Martin Luther King and also an early Board member of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.
Thomas Bowman
Thursday, August 17th. It is Coates Disease Awareness Day.
Michael Pope
Saturday, August 19th, is the birthday of Deputy Secretary of Public Safety and Homeland Security Maggie Clary.
Thomas Bowman
And Sunday, August 20th. It is the birthday of Delegate Lee Ware of Powhatan, and that's it for this episode.
