Michael Pope

Welcome to Transition Virginia, the podcast that still examines the ongoing transition of power in Virginia politics. I'm Michael Pope.

Thomas Bowman

And I'm Thomas Bowman. Later in the show, we'll talk about the fight to protect reproductive rights. We're joined by the Executive Director of Planned Parenthood Advocates of Virginia, Jamie Lockhart and Dr. Shanthi Ramesh, the Medical Director of The Virginia League for Planned Parenthood.

Michael Pope

We talk about that new law in Texas and what it means for states across the country, including here in Virginia. We also talk about the influence reproductive rights will have in this election cycle, plus, we talk a little bit about language.

Thomas Bowman

Speaking of language, Michael, I know 2019 is ancient history now, but didn't you cover an anti abortion rally back then? Because I think I recall seeing you get into it on Twitter about how you were framing opponents of abortion rights?

Michael Pope

It's funny how 2019 seems like such ancient history, doesn't it? I mean, like, it's almost like we're talking about a different planet. But yeah, it was during the veto session back in April, early April of 2019. There were thousands of people that were there in Capitol Square. And so I was there, taking pictures, and doing live tweeting, and I did a story for the radio about it. And now NPR style is to avoid using the terms, "pro-choice," and "pro- life," in favor of, "abortion rights supporters," and, "abortion rights opponents."

Thomas Bowman

Why is that?

Michael Pope

Well, I think the terms, "pro-choice," and, "pro-life," don't really tell you what's at stake. There are actual rights that are involved here. And the old terms kind of obscure the fact that people who call themselves, "pro-life," are opposing abortion rights. The Associated Press has very similar rules. They've also abandoned, "pro-life," and, "pro- choice," in favor of, "anti-abortion," and, "abortion rights supporters." Now the problem is that people who are anti abortion, and oppose abortion rights, they really like being called, "pro-life." And when you don't use their language, it gets under their skin. And so that's what happened in April of 2019, when I was at this rally in Capitol Square, right there on the steps of the Capitol. I tweeted a photo of the scene and I wrote that, "Thousands of abortion rights opponents had gathered for the March on Life." And I was immediately hit on Twitter by somebody asking me if I was afraid to call the rally a, "pro-life rally?" So I ignored it and continued tweeting the event. Now, later when Republican lawmakers emerged on the scene to dramatically walk down the steps of the Capitol, I tweeted a photo of that and once again, I called the event a, "gathering of abortion rights opponents." Now once again, I was hit with Twitter by criticism saying, "I wasn't calling it a 'pro-life' rally." And once again, I did not engage these people on Twitter, I just sort of let it hang out there.

Thomas Bowman

Don't feed the trolls.

Michael Pope

And so when this, "March For Life," was almost over, I walked down to the base of the Hill so that I could get one of those panoramic shots of the scene, because there were literally thousands of people there. And so once again, I called this thing a, "gathering of abortion rights opponents." And this time, I got a response from a friend of mine who's an Episcopal priest, and he wondered why I wasn't calling the people in the crowd, "life proponents." So I posted the link of the AP style book, and explained the phrases, "abortion rights supporter" and, "abortion rights opponent," are ways of describing people they clarify what's at stake in the policy debate. Now he thought the word, "supporter," might sort of tip the scales, and seem to favor one side over the other, which is a perspective I can understand. And I guess this kind of crystallizes the debate over language, which is that we have these laws, and these rights, that some people want to protect, and support, while other people want to undermine, and get rid of. So I can understand why the people at that rally prefer to be called, "pro-life," but in reality, they're opposing abortion rights.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, well, stick around for later in the episode, because you'll really want to hear our guests demystify what it is to have an abortion. They walk us through it, and they also walk us through the many other services that they offer, including, Michael, a vasectomy. So, if you identify as a man, or non-binary gender, and you walk into a Planned Parenthood, you can get your vasectomy, so definitely take them up on that as soon as you're ready.

Michael Pope

Okay, Thomas, we should welcome our new Patreons. Who do we have to thank this week?

Thomas Bowman

Yes, Michael, we've got a couple new Patreons here. So Derek L. and Benjamin H. are the newest friends of the podcast. Thank you for being our friends, and for buying Michael a coffee to get him a drink when he edits the show. And we also have a brand new statewide candidate, Michael.

Michael Pope

Statewide candidate. What's that?

Thomas Bowman

That's the highest Patreon tier we offer right now.

Michael Pope

Thank you.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, thank you, Tom G. for chipping in to help us produce the show. We answer every question from patrons in this tier. We also let them request a topic for an episode. So Tom, let us know if there's a topic you think Transition Virginia should cover.

Michael Pope

So we're hearing from our patreons about how much they love the show. We're also hearing from our listeners about our regular contributor, Steve Artley. Right?

Thomas Bowman

Steve Artley's stuff is a hit. Tracy Israel wrote, "I wanted to let you know that I loved Steve Artley's comedy spots on the podcasts about broadband, the eviction moratorium, political gridlock, and public sector unions. He's a funny guy and does great work."

Michael Pope

We also got this email from Carlisle Bean, who wrote, "I got to compliment you on your regular contributor, Steve Artley. He puts a humorous spin on your deadly serious commentaries, which makes their subject more comprehensible to the uneducated, but vocal minority among us. Anything that helps neutralize that cohort is a good thing. Plus he's lucid and funny, his skillful parodies are decidedly entertaining." Thank you, Carlisle Bean writes to us, and I would say the same thing back to Carlisle Bean. So thank you for the response, and keep the letters coming. Hopefully we will be able to read them on the podcast. And now, Thomas, speaking of Steve Artley, I mean he's so popular, we should probably play his latest parody, which he's calling, "The Reproductive Rights Melody."

Steve Artley

The claws of Texas are upon you, women where you stand. Made to ever subjugate you, body, mind, and gland. Rods chicks deem, "What are you to us?" Choice ain't up to you. Your own holy sacred uterus becomes our domain too. Oh, the hello schmoes of Texas have done it once again. Women's rights and choices are left up to the man. Don't think you'll ever change this by voting at the polls. Because voting law restrictions have plugged up all the holes. Performed by the Proud Refresh of Inbred Caveman Crap, and fully endorsed by American Taliban.

Michael Pope

Everything is bigger in Texas, Thomas, including the parody. You'll notice that he skillfully combines, "The Eyes of Texas," with, "The Ides of March." So there's, "The Ides of Texas." Very clever, Steve.

Thomas Bowman

Yes, thank you again. So stick around for our interview with Planned Parenthood, you're definitely gonna want to hear it.

Michael Pope

Okay, let's get onto the headlines. Back in the 1990s, Virginia approved a bunch of Get Tough on Crime laws. One of them is now preventing Rudy Carey from having his dream job as a substance abuse counselor. That's because he's got a conviction from 2004, a time when he was struggling with substance abuse. Now he's turned his life around and he wants to help other people do the same thing.

Rudy Carey

I love to help people. It's nothing more priceless to me than to see people in my community, and they constantly say, "Thank you for what you've done in my life. And when are you coming back?" and I can only say, "I don't know." So I had to change my career.

Michael Pope

That was Rudy Carey speaking at a press conference outside the Federal Courthouse in Richmond, where he's challenging Virginia law as unconstitutional. Now, he's working with a lawyer from The Institute for Justice, Andrew Ward, who says, "These laws, these barrier crimes, prevent people from holding jobs, regardless of how long ago the crime happened, or what the offense was, or whether they're fit to hold the job today." Here's some audio from Andrew Ward outside the courthouse.

Andrew Ward

People shouldn't be judged for who they used to be, they should be judged for who they are today. People change, no one should be denied the right to work because of irrelevant criminal convictions. They should be assessed for whether they're fit for the job now.

Michael Pope

According to the Virginia Department of Behavioral Health and Developmental Services, in the last three years, more than 1100 people have been ineligible for jobs based on old convictions. State officials also, by the way, point out a shortage of counselors, adding that the law is preventing people with valuable experience from helping others. Thomas, this is one of a string of stories that have emerged in the last few years, since the Democrats took power, where the- this new Democratic majority is sort of undoing all this tough on crime stuff that the last Democratic majority put in place.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, and, and we know that's because the Criminal Code disproportionately affected people of color. And so these barrier crimes were implemented as a way to decrease opportunities for people who had been to prison, which were, statistically, more likely to be people of color.

Michael Pope

Yeah, and I think, you know, even the lawyers who are challenging this law, they will say, there are certain circumstances where you probably wouldn't want someone who was guilty of a certain kind of crime, doing a certain kind of work, you know, things involving children, for example. And so you can sort of see the case for some of this stuff. But in this guy's case, he was convicted of, he was convicted of a violent crime, so we're not- we're not talking about a non-violent crime here. When he had a drug problem, he actually assaulted a police officer. And so that actually is a violent crime. But now, he's turned his life around. And you know, he actually had a gig as a substance abuse counselor for a while, until his employer found out about his conviction, and fired him because of this barrier crime. So there's actually kind of two things that are going on here. One is, the legal challenge in federal court. And I'll be following that and, you know, hopefully, we can bring you some sort of update on that. That's the sort of legal challenge. You know, there's a separate opportunity here, Thomas, for members of the General Assembly, to take legislative action to get rid of some of these barrier crimes. Do you think that we might see something like that on the agenda for this year or the coming years?

Thomas Bowman

Well, certainly could be something on the agenda. And the General Assembly, historically, likes to clarify the law with the possibility of a court ruling, overturning it, or changing it in a way that usually the ruling party, at the time, doesn't like. And so I don't know how it will play out. I don't know where it is on their agenda. But I can certainly see somebody on the Courts Committee wanting to take a pass at it.

Michael Pope

Yeah. If you're a member of the Courts Committee, and you're listening to this podcast, perhaps you you might want to consider that. You know, actually, Thomas, I hadn't thought about that, about the sort of the tension between the Federal Court and the General Assembly, that if the Federal Courts strike something down as unconstitutional, or just plain bad, that it might actually make the Democratic majority look bad. I mean, the implication is, you know, "Gosh, lawmakers, you could have done away with this, if you wanted to, but you didn't even bring this up."

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, and that's probably a headline that the Democrats don't want right now, especially going into elections, depending of course, on how long it takes for things to process. And it does take, often years, for court hearings to process, but if you challenge one of these things, any law, if you challenge the law, and then the law changes, that challenge gets dismissed as moot, because it's no longer the law. And that actually just happened, not in Virginia, but in Florida, where the courts were getting ready to overturn Florida's ban on school masks and withholding funding from the school districts that ignored that. And they changed the law right before the judge could make a ruling, so the judge had to dismiss it, and they only changed it mildly. But the implication is that anybody who wants to go challenge this again, is going to have to go back and start from square one.

Michael Pope

I'm glad you brought up COVID policy, Thomas, because that is the subject of our voicemail. Our voicemail for this week comes From Cathy Burns. Now, she heard our recent discussion about the bill introduced by Congressman Don Beyer, that would require a vaccination, or a negative COVID test, before anybody could get on a domestic flight. Here's her reaction to our discussion about that.

Cathy Burns

If we're going to try and bring business back, we have to feel we're safe. I would feel much safer if I got on a plane and I knew everybody had had the shot. I went to Arena Stage last week, and they checked, you had to have the shot. I bought tickets for the Alexandria Symphony, and for the Washington Metropolitan Philharmonic, and to get into there, we all have to have the shot and wear a mask. And I think, certainly in an airplane, where they're recycling this air, that's a good thing. There may be cases where, individual cases, where they'd rather get the shot, but I think it needs to be as simplified as possible. Id the airlines don't want to have to spend money doing two options. I think sometimes in life, we give people too many options, and then they can't make up their mind. But I would feel much safer if I knew everybody on the plane had the shot, then I would only have to worry about somebody drinking too much and punching someone.

Michael Pope

Oh, gosh, I love Cathy Burns. By the way, you heard some noise in the background. I was having lunch with Cathy Burns, and Steve Artley, at our favorite Greek restaurant, an outdoor spot. They've got a great atrium spot, outdoors, in Old Town. So yeah, Thomas, this idea from Congressman Beyer, about requiring the vaccine before you could get on a flight, clearly, has prompted some response from people. However, I've asked Congressman Beyer's office for an update, and they had no update to give, which is an indication that, you know, Beyer's bill was more of a message bill, and it's doesn't seem to be going anywhere, it doesn't seem to have any traction now. The Biden Administration could have done this, right? It seems like they haven't, I guess, they're not into this right now. Right?

Thomas Bowman

Well, they'll get there. But my impression is that Biden doesn't want to impose everything all at once. Even though, scientifically speaking, as far as a pandemic goes, you want to clamp down and then reduce, rather than boil the frog. It's not a good strategy in a pandemic. But here's what's going on, is we would rather have the industry come to its own agreement to mandate that all travelers have to be vaccinated, because there's not really a good enforcement mechanism from the federal government, due to HIPAA laws, the airline, private airline companies can't really verify whether or not you are actually vaccinated.

Michael Pope

Well, can't they ask you for your vaccination card?

Thomas Bowman

Well, they can ask you for it, but the reality is, that they don't really have a good way to police it, or verify that it's real, or in a valid card. What's going on here, though, is, what's likely to happen is, that the pressure from lost business, is going to make this an economic decision. You've already saw United Airlines institute a vaccine mandate for all their travelers. And they are the first big big airline, in the United States, to do that. Some other smaller airlines had already done so. And I think that you'll see the dam breaking, because what I'm hearing when I talk to private companies, and business, Michael, is that because they have a duty to keep their employees safe, and healthy on the job, they're actually telling them, "You can't fly, you have to go take a car. Because if you fly, and you catch COVID, because we made you fly, then that liability could fall back on us." And of course, they don't want that. So ultimately, this is going to be a business decision.

Michael Pope

Well, going back to this thing about like, presenting your vaccination card to get into places. So like, you know, in this context, we're talking about getting on the airplane. But you know, more and more, I'm asked to show my vaccination card. You know, when I went to cover the debate with McAuliffe and Youngkin, they asked me to show my vaccination card to get into the Sleisenger Center in Northern Virginia Community College, which is by the way, the same place the Alexandria Symphony plays, you heard Cathy Burns, talk about going to the symphony, same venue. You had to show your vaccination card to get in to see the symphony, you also had to show your vaccination card to get in to see the debate for Governor. But that's not true to get on American Airlines to fly down to Florida? Like, you know, the airlines could, if legally, especially if legally required, it would give them some cover if they were legally required. They could ask for people to prove that they've been vaccinated before they got on the airplane. Right? You made it sound earlier, like, do we even know that's the case?

Thomas Bowman

Well look, a top VA doctor in Michigan actually just got arrested, Michael, because she was selling fake vaccine cards for $200. They were real cards, Michael, but they were fraudulently obtained on the consumer side. So here's the problem with any of the mandates. There's not really a way to ensure that the paper is actually valid, that you actually got the vaccine.

Michael Pope

Well, let me ask about a twist on that, which is, in Virginia, you can also get the QR code, which I think the whole point of the QR code is that it's either, I mean, impossible is probably too strong of a word, but it would be very difficult to forge something like the QR code, that has your name, and personal identifiers on it. Is that a solution to this?

Thomas Bowman

It is a solution to this. There's a there's a lot that you can do digitally that would be a solution. Also, for example, non fungible tokens are really hot right now, you could actually, at the doctor's office, have a non transferable NFT minted, that says, who you are, when you got your shot, what shot you got. And if you can't transfer it to anybody, it proves that you're the owner, there's no trust required. So there are innovative solutions that government I think will get to, or that probably the way things work in the United States, a private company will get to that can lobby the government to implement their particular product. So Virginia's got the QR code, that's a solution that other countries and states have also tried, and it does work better than these paper cards.

Michael Pope

So clearly, Beyer's bill doesn't seem to be going anywhere right now. And I get the sense you don't feel like Biden is willing to move in that direction now. Do you think that might change over time?

Thomas Bowman

Well, I know it's something that they're actually discussing, and it and it will change over time. Biden is trying to give things as much time to work out as he can, because he doesn't want to implement more restrictions when United States society is on a hair trigger, civilly, and potentially spark something. You know, the protests, the Justice Department just had to, for example, intervene, and protect local elected school board officials, because of the amount of harassment they were getting for implementing COVID mandates and policies. And now think about the bandwidth that takes around the country. And then think about the bandwidth that's going to be required to deal with travelers on flights. The TSA is already underfunded, and stretched thin, and, arguably, doesn't work. So like, the reality is like, there's no easy solution to this challenge. And so Biden will probably get there if he has to go there. But he's hoping, if I were reading between the lines here, he's hoping that either the industry will police itself, and come up with their own policies, so he doesn't have to implement anything, or hopefully, we can out survive COVID. So...it's not an easy policy solution. Alright, Michael, let's take a break cuz when we come back, we'll be joined by the Executive Director of The Planned Parenthood Advocates of Virginia, Jamie Lockhart, and Dr. Shanthi Ramesh an OBGYN and the Medical Director of the Virginia League for Planned Parenthood.

Michael Pope

And we're back on Transition Virginia. We're joined by the Executive Director of Planned Parenthood Advocates of Virginia, Jamie Lockhart, thanks for joining us.

Jamie Lockhart

Thanks so much for having me.

Thomas Bowman

We're also joined by Dr. Shanthi Ramesh, an OBGYN, and the Medical Director of The Virginia League for Planned Parenthood. Dr. Ramesh, thanks for joining us today.

Dr. Shanthi Ramesh

Hi, happy to be here.

Michael Pope

Okay, so we have to start with this new Texas law, and the Supreme Court decision, that has totally upended the debate over abortion across America, state by state, in terms of what your state laws are on abortion, because this is all kind of up in the air now, and depending on how the Supreme Court takes action, you know, Virginia could be a place where it is impossible to get an abortion, in the near future. Open question to the panel here. How has this Texas law upended the entire debate and landscape that we're now in, in terms of reproductive rights in America, in general, and Virginia in particular?

Jamie Lockhart

Well, Texas passed a six-week abortion ban. No exceptions for rape or incest. And it's a sue thy neighbor, kind of bounty, attached to it, as well. And the Supreme Court let Texas' ban take effect. And the fact that Texas' ban took effect September 1st, and is still in effect over a month later, it has opened the floodgates to similar bans across the country. So we've seen, you know, Florida talking about a similar ban, and a ban, like Texas', could come to Virginia, if we're not successful with the elections on November 2.

Dr. Shanthi Ramesh

I'll just add, you know that we, in Virginia, are continuing to see patients who need to access abortion care. Some of those patients may be traveling from other states, including Texas. My patients are scared. They're worried about what could happen if something similar happened here in Virginia, and my staff is scared and nervous. They are hearing about this on the news, and really wondering, what's the future of abortion access in our country?

Thomas Bowman

Many people mistakenly credit Roe v Wade for coalescing Evangelical denominations as a highly effective voting block. According to both Politico and NPR's through line, it actually started right here, in Virginia, six years after Roe, as a response to Brown v Board of Education. Jerry Falwell ran a Segregation Academy in Lynchburg, and bemoaned anti-segregation Supreme Court rulings. He teamed up with the Cooke- funded, Heritage Foundation, to find a way to convince white voters to support segregationist politicians once again. They settled on a scheme to launch an anti- abortion propaganda campaign to convince Evangelicals that the litmus test for their vote should be support for a constitutional amendment banning abortion, which the segregationist politicians would successfully campaign on in 1980, instead of racism. Their plan to politicize women's health care, clearly worked. Jamie, will you describe some of the consequences that affect people today, because of the segregationists decision to politicize equal access to health care for women?

Jamie Lockhart

Yeah, I mean, the consequences of restrictions have been devastating. We started out talking about Texas, and how now, women, and people needing abortions, in Texas, have to travel out of state. But we've seen lots of onerous restrictions over time in the Commonwealth of Virginia, several restrictions that were just repealed in 2020. So between 2013 and 2020, people seeking abortion care had to have an unnecessary mandatory ultrasound. There's also been restrictions that have called for bias counseling, as well as these targeted restrictions on abortion providers, that regulate abortion providers, like hospitals, you know, requiring widths, and parking spots, and things that have nothing to do with the health and safety of the care being provided. And we also saw, until recently, that highly qualified, certified nurse midwives, and nurse practitioners, couldn't provide abortion care, just because of political reasons, not because of health, and safety, and the training that they have. So also, the mandatory waiting period is something that has been put into place, and that we repealed in 2020. But totally unnecessary. And something that people face in a lot of other states, like Texas has a 24 hour mandatory waiting period. North Carolina has a 72 hour mandatory waiting period. So they were successful over the years in putting a lot of restrictions in place that had nothing to do with health and safety. And were all about restricting access to essential, time sensitive, care.

Michael Pope

Okay, just now you walked through several of those restrictions that existed from kind of the Republican era of dominance in Virginia. One of the first things Democrats did once they assumed control the general assembly, was get rid of most of that. One thing that they tried to do that was unsuccessful, that kind of remains an open question, is this Kathy Tran bill, that, of course, caused a lot of controversy because of how the Governor spoke about it when he made that infamous appearance on WTOP. But let's talk about Kathy Tran's bill. So the- there's a requirement that three doctors need to sign off in certain circumstances, which of course could be a problem in rural areas. Explain what Kathy Tran was trying to accomplish, and what happened with that controversy?

Jamie Lockhart

Sure. Well, as I just mentioned, you know, abortion care is very time sensitive. And so anytime you put restrictions on the books, that require some amount of time, you're putting, in the case of an abortion happening later in pregnancy for a very kind of tragic situation, you're creating circumstances where lives could be in danger, because time is of the essence.

Michael Pope

So that Kathy Tran bill was aimed at these late term abortions, right?

Jamie Lockhart

Very rare abortions, occurring later in pregnancy.

Michael Pope

And the idea was that you would need three doctors. I mean, I guess the current law is that you would need three doctors to sign off on that. Is that right?

Jamie Lockhart

That's correct.

Michael Pope

Okay. Dr. Ramesh, is there any sort of medical reason for that kind of requirement?

Dr. Shanthi Ramesh

No, I mean, to me, just as Jamie said, you know, these are incredibly rare, specific situations. And I think it's just a case of legislating the exam room. These are very private, sometimes devastating circumstances, and I think really left best between a patient and her physician.

Michael Pope

And so Jamie Lockhart, how do we get from that discussion, of three doctors signing off, and the time constraints, and how do we get from that, to that description that Governor Northam made on WTOP?

Jamie Lockhart

You know, I'm not sure what the Governor meant in that situation. But I think, as Dr. Ramesh just said, these are very difficult decisions that have to be made between the patient and their care team. And they shouldn't be decisions for politicians or, you know, members of the General Assembly.

Thomas Bowman

Dr. Ramesh, would you help us demystify an abortion procedure? What happens once a woman has decided to have an abortion? What does that even mean? And what does the procedure actually entail?

Dr. Shanthi Ramesh

Yeah, absolutely, I'd be happy to. So I think the first myth to bust is that not all people seeking abortions, identify as women. And so really, anyone who could become pregnant, seeks abortion services. So you'll hear Jamie and I'll reference people seeking abortion care. And that's something we're really sensitive to at Planned Parenthood, we take care of a lot of transgender and gender nonconforming patients. So when someone finds out that they are pregnant, and they can't be, or don't want to be, they will often contact one of our health centers, either through a phone call, or through online scheduling, and make arrangements based on how far along they think they are in the pregnancy, to come in, to meet with one of our staff. And usually this entails doing some history taking, talking about a patient's options, sometimes an ultrasound, depending on the circumstances. Sometimes we have patients who've had an ultrasound somewhere else, and they'll bring that, that will work. And we offer both medication, abortion and procedure based abortion, at our health centers. Medication abortion, pretty simply, is just a combination of a couple of medications, one you take here with us, and a set that you take at home, that essentially causes a miscarriage, and so patients will pass the pregnancy at home. That's an option up until around 11 weeks of pregnancy. Then the other option is an in-clinic option, which is a procedure really similar to what would happen for a miscarriage. Patients often receive IV sedation so they're nice and comfortable. And we perform a pretty straightforward, outpatient procedure, usually takes a couple minutes. They recover here for about a half an hour, and then will go home. Many of our patients choose to do testing for other things, like sexually transmitted infections, or to access birth control while they're here. And those are other services that we offer, really to a wide range of patients seeking our care.

Michael Pope

You just raised something that's actually become somewhat of an issue on the campaign trail, which is, you know, at what stage does the fetus have the ability to feel pain? Dr. Ramesh walk us inside of the sort of different timeframes that the law creates cut off points there.

Dr. Shanthi Ramesh

Right, so in obstetrics and gynecology, we use a trimester framework and the vast majority of our patients, at Planned Parenthood, are in the first trimester of pregnancy, which is really the first 13 to 14 weeks of pregnancy. In terms of fetal pain, there is data available to demonstrate, sort of both, looking at nervous system development, that fetal pain develops right around 28 weeks. And so that's, those are not patients that we're seeing here at Planned Parenthood. We do provide abortions in the second trimester at two of our health centers, and that's something that was instrumentally changed by the laws that Jamie is referencing, that were brought back, and really opened access to a population that has a very difficult time accessing care otherwise.

Thomas Bowman

So what happens when people seeking an abortion don't have access to a safe or legal medical procedure?

Dr. Shanthi Ramesh

Well, we have great data on that actually, from the turn away study done by our folks in California, that really demonstrates that, patients who are not able to access the care they need, they often end up parenting, and are at increased risk of ongoing complications with their health, including their mental health, and similar outcomes. I can tell you, as someone who sees patients every day, majority of my patients really express relief at being able to access this service. And so it's just an incredibly, incredibly important part of care. That when you're living in a place where you may have to travel over 100 miles or more to access the care, can really- those barriers really add up.

Michael Pope

So Planned Parenthood is probably best known for a place where people can get a safe legal abortion, but the patients are not exclusively women. These clinics serve men, non binary genders, as you were just talking about, and abortions are only one of the services that is offered by Planned Parenthood. Dr. Ramesh, could you describe the typical patients that are helped there at Planned Parenthood, and outline kind of the breadth of services that are available?

Dr. Shanthi Ramesh

Oh, absolutely. So abortion is a really important part of our work. But like you said, it's not our only service. So at our health centers, we offer the services, typically you would think of happening at Planned Parenthood. So annual exams for cervical cancer screening, birth control, counseling, and starting of a birth control method. We offer primary care services. So we manage folks diabetes, and high blood pressure, anxiety, and depression is a huge part of our primary care patient population, especially right now during the pandemic. We provide gender affirming hormone services to transgender and nonbinary folks, and we even do vasectomy at two of our four health centers.

Thomas Bowman

I'll know where to come in a couple of years when I'm done having kids. Jamie, coming from Planned Parenthood Advocates of Virginia, what is your role during this election season?

Jamie Lockhart

So, in addition to running Planned Parenthood Advocates of Virginia, I also serve as Executive Director of Planned Parenthood Virginia Pac, our political action committee, and Planned Parenthood Advocates of Virginia have endorsed over 75 candidates for the House of Delegates, as well as Terry McAuliffe for Governor, Haya Ayala for Lieutenant Governor, and Mark Herring for Attorney General. And the pac is working to get out the vote for them. So we are doing door knocking, we are making phone calls, we are running digital ads in support of some of our candidates, as well as sending out mail. So we're kind of going all in to make sure that we keep our pro-reproductive health majority in the House of Delegates, and that we also keep the statewide offices in in the hands of those that will stand up for Reproductive Rights.

Thomas Bowman

Jamie, in the last debate, the moderator brought up the possibility of support for a constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to an abortion. I assume Planned Parenthood has has a opinion on that. What's your position? And do you think that would be a good idea?

Jamie Lockhart

Yes, we absolutely need to make sure that the right to a safe, legal abortion is protected in the Commonwealth. And as we mentioned earlier, the Supreme Court has really, you know, undone 50 years of precedent by not stopping Texas's law from taking effect. So we need to make sure that in the next legislative session, we move forward legislation to protect the right, no matter what happens in the Federal Courts.

Michael Pope

I'm curious about the language that we use to talk about all this stuff and how it's changed in recent years. You know, for many, many, many years, our listeners probably heard about the debate over, "pro-choice versus pro-life." In more recent years, the language has evolved and we now talk about, "abortion rights supporters," and, "abortion rights opponents," or,"reproductive rights supporters," and, "reproductive rights opponents." Talk about that language, in terms of, "pro-choice," and, "pro-life," and sort of how that's problematic?

Jamie Lockhart

Sure, well, I don't think the exact terminology is that important, but you know, when someone makes the decision to end their pregnancy, and have have an abortion, they should be able to do so. And so, you know, ultimately, those words about how we feel, doesn't matter to the individual who has made the decision to end their pregnancy.

Michael Pope

I hear you. But I mean, for people who are journalists, and you know, write things in the newspaper, and say things on the radio, the language is actually really important. So I'm just sort of wondering, why, "pro-life, pro-choice," why that framing was so bad, we should abandon it?

Jamie Lockhart

Well, I think that, you know, people like us, who are, you know, either reporting, or who who do this work every day, are often talking about these terms. But we found that folks that are actually seeking care, don't, don't put themselves on that binary, do not identify with with the kind of two political terms that were used of, "pro-choice or pro-life." And so I think, talking about what it is, which is a right to safe legal abortion, is how we talk about it now.

Thomas Bowman

Jamie and Dr. Ramesh, thanks for joining us today. Is there anything else that you would like to say, on the subjects that we've been discussing?

Jamie Lockhart

I'll start, and say that Virginians have an important choice to make, now through November 2, and that abortion rights are on the line in this election. We've seen how Glenn Youngkin was secretly recorded saying he wants to go on offense, to defund Planned Parenthood, and to to ban abortion. And we also saw that Winsome Sears, the Republican candidate for Lieutenant Governor, would support a Texas-style abortion ban. And so it's critically important that those who support abortion rights, turn out to vote. And on PPAV's website, you can see all the candidates that we've endorsed in this election.

Dr. Shanthi Ramesh

Yeah, I'll just second what Jamie is saying, and, you know, this is not theoretical. Every day, I'm seeing patients who are accessing abortion care, and hearing their stories. I have, you know, patients who come from all walks of life, and knowing what accessing a safe, legal abortion means to them, and for their futures. And so I think sometimes we get caught up in thinking of the politics, and these- we hear about these bans, and we don't realize that there are people on the other end of this, who really need this care. And that's, you know, that's what I see every day as a doctor. And we're not talking about restrictions, or legislation that improves health and safety. It's really aimed at limiting access to this essential care. And so I think it's just incredibly incredibly important, as Jamie said, that folks get out and vote this year, especially.

Thomas Bowman

So that's all for this episode, hit us up on social media or get in touch at Transitionvirginia.com. There, you can check the transcripts for this episode, and find the links to support the show on Patreon. Special thanks to Emily Cottrell, who transcribes every one of these so they're accessible to everyone.

Michael Pope

Thanks for listening to Transition Virginia. If you like what you heard, give us a five star review. It helps other people find the show. We'll be back next week, so subscribe to the show so you don't miss a single episode.

Transition VA

Transition Virginia is produced by Jackleg Media, LLC.