Secret Recordings, Transgender Model Policies, and The Casino Ballot Question (with Lauren Burke)
IN THE NEWS:
When he ran for governor, candidate Glenn Youngkin was secretly recorded talking about why he couldn't say more about abortion. Now, a candidate for the House of Delegates is explaining why a secretly recorded audio clip reveals he supports a 100 percent ban on abortion. What's going on with these secretly recorded audio conversations, and what are the journalistic ethics around reporting on the findings?
Last month, the state Department of Education released model policies for school divisions across Virginia relating to transgender students. The model policies suggest that parents should have the final say about names, pronouns and bathrooms – not the students. Now the Spotsylvania School Board is the first to adopt those new model policies.
Will voters in Richmond have a ballot question on a new casino this November? The question is working its way through the courts even now.
At the Watercooler:
Democrat Trudy Berry had all the paperwork she needed to run in Mecklenburg, but a clerical error is leaving her out of the race--and she's wondering why the State Board of Elections denied her appeal when similar issues were successfully appealed in the past. Plus, local elected officials are frustrated by the lack of a state budget.
Episode Transcript
Michael Pope
I'm Michael Pope.
Lauren Burke
I'm Lauren Burke.
Michael Pope
And this is Pod Virginia, a podcast that is missing Thomas Bowman this week. He's not here this week. But we are really happy to welcome to the podcast our friend Lauren Victoria Burke, founder of Black Virginia News. Thanks for returning to pod Virginia.
Lauren Burke
Thanks for having me, Michael; I'm glad to be here. It's a lot of fun.
Michael Pope
So, the last time you were on our podcast, you had your own podcast, the Burke File, which is great. I highly recommend it. Go there and hit the subscribe button right now. But now you've got two podcasts? You're the machine! Cranking them out here.
Lauren Burke
Two is too many, as it turns out, but it's a lot of fun. I am doing Black Virginia News with a couple of people and trying to cover some stuff in Virginia that doesn't get covered in the Black community in Virginia, the 20%. And we'll see how it goes. But the Burke File is still there. There's plenty to talk about, as you know, Michael,
Michael Pope
There is a lot to talk about. So before we move on from Black Virginia News, it's a podcast. It's also like a substack, right?
Lauren Burke
Absolutely. So it has a substack. So basically, it's got a blog component that has a podcast attached to it as well. Both have the same name. I am starting to really notice that, of course, there's a news desert out there globally, but particularly, I think, in the Black community. And I love the Richmond Free Press in The New Journal and Guide: the historic New Journal and Guide, Norfolk, but there's certainly a lot of Black Virginia that is not covered, both historically and contemporaneously. And so I'll be doing that.
Michael Pope
Alright, let's get to the news. The audio they don't want you to hear now when he ran for Governor in 2021. Candidate Glenn Youngkin was secretly recorded on the campaign trail talking about why he couldn't say more about abortion. Then last year, a congressional candidate was secretly recorded saying she was skeptical women could get pregnant from rape. Now, a candidate for the House of Delegates is explaining why a secretly recorded audio clip reveals that he actually supports a 100% ban on abortion, even though his official position is the 15-week ban. Fred Brown is chairman of the ethics committee at the Society for Professional Journalists.
Fred Brown
It's sneaky; it's underhanded. And it's the sort of thing that makes people mistrust journalists. But it's also, in this case, a way of getting information that otherwise might not make it into the public sphere.
Lauren Burke
Kelly McBride at the Poynter Center says that there would be a danger in having the recording and not reporting on it.
Kelly McBride
I don't think that it is appropriate for a journalist to automatically ignore audio or video or any materials because they were surreptitiously obtained. Because if you did that, you would be ignoring information that your audience genuinely needs to know.
Michael Pope
Yeah, she tells me that candidates, journalists, and news consumers people who listen to this podcast should expect more of this in the future. I think if you look at recent campaign cycles, I think that's evidence of that. Lauren, there was a time when journalists did a lot of undercover journalism; they would pretend to be somebody that they weren't, or they would act a certain kind of way in order to get information. This actually was very popular for a long period of time. It's now kind of fallen out of favor. You really don't see journalists doing this sort of thing anymore. In fact, in all three of these cases we just mentioned, the audio didn't come from journalists; it came from activists who gave it to journalists. So there's a lot of ethical questions there.
Lauren Burke
Yeah, absolutely. We live in an age where everybody is media, essentially. Because the tools of media are held in everybody's hand with their cell phone. So, the standard audio recorders are on everyone's phone. Obviously, everyone has the ability to video. And so everybody's throwing it up on social media, typically Facebook and Twitter, at will. And from that point is typically where journalists do get it. But I will say, in any sort of journalistic moment that I'm having, I typically will tell people, I am recording you whether I'm in a one-party or a two-party jurisdiction. Of course, Virginia is a one-party jurisdiction, meaning that you have to be in the discussion when you are recording somebody on the phone, and you do not need their permission. But even if I didn't think that I was going to use it for journalistic purposes, I would typically tell someone if I was recording them.
Michael Pope
Yeah, and there are examples of journalists getting fired because they didn't tell the person that they were recording them. Even if it was totally legal. As you point out, in Virginia. If I record a conversation with you and don't tell you, that's totally legal. But if I record a conversation between you and, you know, a relative of yours, and I'm not a party to that conversation, that's illegal. So, in all these cases, we've got these abortion rights activists being in public settings. This is another part of what we're talking about here. When Glenn Youngkin made those comments, he was on the campaign trail talking to voters. When the congressional candidate made her comments about pregnancy, not resulting from rape, that was in a public setting, they were at a campaign event. This most recent incident with the House of Delegates member was the same thing; he was shaking hands with voters at a public event in a public space. So that's a little bit different than you know; you'll recall Mitt Romney, during the presidential campaign, was secretly recorded at a private fundraiser. But that was a little bit of a different story.
Lauren Burke
Yeah, that was a way different story. We saw another one with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. not too long ago. I don't know that he knew that he was being recorded. But quite frankly, most people in public life are generally aware that anytime there is any sort of public setting, they could be recorded. And obviously, at a political event, you'd be thinking that. But then the reason that a lot of these journalistic rules are getting thrown around very loosely is that we do have a lot of people in the journalistic space who are not specifically journalists doing this type of activity. So that can be good, that can be bad. I'm sure that most of them, particularly activists, would argue that this is important and needs to get out there. But at the same time, there does need to be, I think, some general rules of conduct. But certainly, as you just said, though, at a public event, in a political space where someone is speaking, you know, most people would assume I'm being recorded on some level, particularly with today's technology around.
Michael Pope
Yeah, and it does really get to the heart of this thing that people hate about politicians, that they say one thing when they're in one audience, and they say something totally different when they're in a different audience of people. And it really drives right to the heart of this abortion debate because the Republican official narrative is a 15-week ban; we support the 15-week ban. There's polling that says it has majority support. But if you dig down, some of them actually want a 100% ban, but their official position is a 15-week ban. So the comments here in this most recent example really kind of reveal something very important. Also worth pointing out is that this most recent example was recorded by an activist, but it's not like the activist posted it to Twitter; they went to the Washington Post, and they said, Hey, Washington Post, I've got this audio, do you want to do anything with it? And then the Post has all these ethical standards that they are duty bound to follow and confirm it's legit. You know, this is actually what you're telling me it is. And they did; they called the candidate, who confirmed that it was him. And then weighed the news value of it. Clearly, it had solid news value because the candidate was saying something slightly different to this voter than his official position. And he also explained it to the Post interview, which was so good for him that he didn't just hang up the phone. He talked to the Post and explained exactly what was going on there. If someone came to me with secretly recorded audio, I would be hesitant to use it. I'm not saying I wouldn't. But the reason I would be hesitant to use it is I never want to be in a position where I feel like people are using me? The activist who gave me the audio is using me to launder their agenda with this audio clip that they have given me. So clearly, the Post doesn't want to be used either. So they made a determination about the news value of this particular sound clip and ended up using it, and now it has upended this particular campaign and added to this narrative of abortion rights being one of the central compelling issues in this General Assembly election.
Lauren Burke
Absolutely. Well, it's funny; so much of what is given to reporters is someone trying to use a reporter to amplify something they want amplified. I mean, that happens a lot. In fact, I would almost venture to guess that probably 50% or 60% of the stories you're seeing are the result of somebody tipping off a report and trying to amplify something they want to amplify. And then, of course, the reporter has to make a judgment about whether or not that information should be amplified. But in the case of a surreptitious recording involving someone getting hurt or national security, I suspect that all the rules at the Washington Post would have gone out the window if it was something in one of those categories. Because if somebody brings you something surreptitious that involves a crime or someone being hurt in some way, or someone about to be hurt, or some reason to believe that something is going to happen, that's going to be bad for somebody else, that needs to be prevented. And that audio would help prevent that, either by presenting it to the police, or whatever it might be, you're going to drop the rules at that point. I suspect if you're a media organization, and certainly if national security falls into that category. These things we're talking about are activists who believe in a certain thing or a certain policy. So it's a little bit different. So it does come down to the individual judgment of us as reporters making a decision. But of course, what we're seeing here is the diversification of information, information technology, and the way that journalism has been impacted by the fact that we have, quote, citizen journalists out there, really acting, I mean, and we've seen it so many times where people have just surreptitiously recorded somebody and throw it on Twitter or throw it on Facebook. And that in itself became a story, just from that act alone.
Michael Pope
Well, let's move on to our next story. Model behavior. Last month, Governor Glenn Youngkin's Department of Education released new model policies for school divisions across Virginia relating to transgender students. The model policies suggest the parents should have the final say about names and pronouns and bathrooms, not the students. Now, the Spotsylvania school board is the first in Virginia to adopt these new model policies. Here's Spotsylvania school board member April Gillespie.
April Gillespie
It's not up to us to say what's acceptable and what's not acceptable in people's homes. And, oh, you can do it differently here at school, we won't tell your parents. We can't do that. That's not our place,
Lauren Burke
James Fetterman at the Virginia Education Association. Says the school board should reject the Governor's new model policies.
James Fetterman
The Governor and the Spotsylvania school board are willing to implement policies that are simply cruel. All young people in our public schools deserve to feel safe and to exercise their right to live authentically.
Michael Pope
Yeah, these new model policies are a 180 from the previous administration's model policy. So the Northam administration had model policies that said, hey, schools, you should actually respect the wishes of transgender students to choose their own names and pronouns and bathrooms. So, school boards in Virginia right now are considering what they want to do. Do they want to adopt these new Youngkin model policies? Do they want to keep the old Northam model policies? Or do they want to just ignore everything and keep their existing policies in place? We've seen Spotsylvania, of course, has adopted them. Fairfax has explicitly rejected them. I think we are seeing some chatter about Arlington and Alexandria potentially rejecting them in the near future. Lauren, what do you make of the school boards across Virginia looking in the mirror and trying to figure out what they want to do with this?
Lauren Burke
Yeah, and I'm sure that this will obviously be a school-board-by-school-board decision. It's really a great example of how so many of these issues are falling to school boards, which, a lot of times in these election cycles that we have in Virginia, we don't pay too much attention to them. We sure as heck are paying attention to him now. It's funny; I saw Governor Youngkin in Fredericksburg at one of his parent's matters events. And he had said offhandedly that, it was a sort of funny little side saying that, you know, our kids think that me and my wife are the meanest parents around because we dictate what they're going to do in their lives. So he's a real believer in parents making that decision. Typically, with minors, we do tend to have the attitude that a minor's parents should, of course, have a say in what is going on in that minor's life. But this is an issue that has become something bigger in the news as we go. And I don't know that we've completely figured out all the issues they are in yet. So, I can imagine certainly that the school boards, depending on where you are in Virginia, will have different model policies. It is really hard to predict what each school board would do, although Arlington and Alexandria and Fairfax, of course, are not surprising that, of course, they're saying they're empowering, you know, the students and letting the students make the decision.
Michael Pope
Yeah, you would think it would be a really easy decision for a lot of school boards, especially on the extremes, right. So, like, if you're in a really red jurisdiction, it's kind of a no-brainer to adopt the model policies, politically speaking. Then, you know, the opposite is the case for very blue jurisdictions like Arlington and Alexandria, which would be like sticking to the Governor's projected model policies.
Lauren Burke
Right.
Michael Pope
You know, there's another important aspect to this. And maybe it's a little bit of a nuance, but worth thinking about, which is, are these school boards under an obligation? Do they have a legal requirement to adopt the model policies? And I'm pretty sure the answer to that is no. And the reason for that is the reason that we've got these model policies is, in 2020 when the Democrats were in power, they created a law that ordered the Department of Education to create model policies. So the school boards have this suggestion: You can adopt the model policy, but they're not legally required to. It would have been different if the General Assembly said school boards across Virginia must adopt the model policy, but that's not what they did. They said the Department of Education must come up with a model policy. So, the school boards can either adopt the model policy or totally reject it, and they would be under no legal obligation. The Department of Education has no enforcement power. If your local school board doesn't want to adopt the model policy that the Department of Education has come up with. That's perfectly okay. They're elected officials, most of them are elected officials, and they can do with their own policies what they want to do. So, I would imagine most school boards would just keep their existing policy and not want to wade into this debate.
Lauren Burke
Yeah, I agree. I think that's exactly what's going to happen. I don't know. These things are so nuanced and so personal that everybody and every community is gonna have to work through the issue on their own. And have their own community conversations about it. It's interesting when it breaks down to politics, and certain folks pushing their agenda one way or the other is where I think you lose a lot of people. But as long as it stays sort of a common sense, conversational community, by community type of approach, it should work. But you're right; there is no enforcement action for the school board. So, in a lot of cases, it'll be something that would not be waded into unless there is some sort of reason to wade into it. Which typically, sometimes, there is. But again, it will be obviously a community by community, school board, by school board, set of decisions. And it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out.
Michael Pope
Alright, moving on to our final story of the day. Double or Nothing on casinos. Will voters in Richmond have a ballot question this November about a new casino there in Richmond? Well, first, it was on, and then it was off. And now nobody seems to know what's going on. Now, by way of background. When Democrats had control of the General Assembly, they passed a bill that would allow casinos in economically disadvantaged areas as long as voters approved. Well, guess what? Voters in Richmond did not approve. And they rejected a casino proposal in 2021. Now, the same developer is back with the same plans, for the most part. Although we still don't know if it's going to be on the ballot or not. So, Lauren, you were in the courtroom last week for a hearing on this. What happened?
Lauren Burke
Well, what happened was an hour-long hearing in which the judge effectively said, Hey, we're gonna hold things up. And this is not necessarily going to be on the ballot until we figure these things out. And it's an issue around a few things. Standing of the folks that Chap Peterson is representing, the young, I keep saying young lions, but it's the Good Lions, it's the good lions. And they're basically arguing that the no-bid process should not have been a bid process, which it wasn't in the first round.
Michael Pope
Just to be clear here. So the Richmond Lodge #1 is one of the Good Lions; they are the owners of Pop's Bingo World, which clearly does not want a casino in Richmond. So there's a business interest here, and the people who are challenging the casino because they own Pops Bingo World, and the last thing they want is a casino stealing all of their business. Right?
Lauren Burke
Right. And there's also an issue; there's a question of whether or not the process was open enough. Basically, the Richmond City Council passed it through, and a judge said, Hey, we're gonna have this vote again. Effectively, the same vote. The same ballot language that we had in 2021, again, this November, a little bit over 80 days on November 7th, 2023. For a lot of people, I think, there's a general view it was a little bit rushed and that the lack of detail around it was noteworthy. And then all of a sudden, Chap Peterson and his client, the good lions, show up and say, Wait a minute, what's going on here? This is a multi-million dollar, maybe perhaps a $300, $400, $500 million project. Which would make it one of the biggest in the history of the city of Richmond. Why is this no bid?
Michael Pope
Just to make sure that I've got my hands around it. In 2021, there was a bidding process. So Urban One was selected by the city council in 2021. There were six proposals, and the city council chose Urban One among the six proposals. And then that was rejected. Since that time, there have been maybe new business developments, and all those things distance get really murky. In fact, in terms of what actually happened. But Urban One now has a partnership with Churchill Downs or something like that. So now, in 2023, the Richmond City Council has once again gone with Urban One. But this time, there was no bidding process. So, last time, there was a bidding process. There were six proposals; they chose Urban One, which was rejected. Now, they chose Urban One, but there was no bidding process.
Lauren Burke
Yeah, it just sort of happened. The city council voted on it. And there was only one city council member who said they were against it. And really, I think there are a lot of details that haven't come out yet with regard to both sides of this conversation. I suspect that in the coming weeks, Urban One, who's half of the deal, of course, wants to casino, along with Churchill Downs. I think they will be detailing what the good sides of this are. And you can see Michael, around Virginia, you're seeing the casino in Bristol and the one in Portsmouth bring in millions and millions and millions of dollars. I suspect that the casino will be articulating what the benefits for Richmond are. But there was some opposition before; it narrowly lost before, but it didn't lose by a whole lot. But when you talk about casinos and economic development, what's going on in Richmond and the Navy Hill project did not get passed because people were against that. At some point, Richmond, just like any other city in the Commonwealth of Virginia, is going to need some development happening. There's not a whole lot happening in Richmond. I know there's a lot of reasons for that. But when you look at the money coming in for these other casinos, it would be hard to argue that at least this shouldn't be a discussion here. But at this moment, in this legal moment, we're about to find out whether or not this ballot initiative is going to go forward in November. That's really the question for this week.
Michael Pope
So the legal question here is, is it okay that they didn't have a bidding process? So, the Richmond Lodge #1 of the Good Lions, or Young Lions? Young Lions sounds better, right?
Lauren Burke
I know, Young Lions sound so much better. That's why I keep doing it, but it's Good Lions.
Michael Pope
Okay, so does Pops Bingo World have standing to challenge the fact that there was no bidding process?
Lauren Burke
Right, and do they have the standing to challenge that. Standing is always a thing in all of these cases, and it will be a thing in this case. And I can't imagine that they have the time to open a bidding process right now, less than 90 days to what would be the election day for this question. I don't think that's going to be a thing. But there are apparently some provisions in the Virginia constitution that mandate, and in the city provisions that mandate, there should be a bidding process. But again, that judge will decide that one way or the other, whether or not it's going to be on the ballot. That's the key question. Yeah, that's
Michael Pope
That's this week, right?
Lauren Burke
Yeah, that's this week, Thursday (August 24th, 2023). And so that is, is huge, in a lot of ways. I mean, again, I do think that the side that wants to casino will be articulating further the details of why this is going to be a good thing. And what you typically hear when you hear casinos is people complaining about, okay, wait a minute, this is going to suck money out of the community; it's going to lead to a bunch of dead-end jobs that don't matter. I really think that the casino side just needs to get their messaging out. I think they will get their messaging out to answer some of those questions. And I think a lot of those questions will be answered, and that may change the calculus and get it over the line in a way that didn't get over the line back in 2021.
Michael Pope
Alright, let's take a break. When we come back, we'll play a round of trivia and read your comments.
All right, let's go around the Commonwealth.
Lauren Burke
Governor Glenn Youngkin visited the Rockingham County Fair, helping to celebrate its 75th anniversary.
Michael Pope
Not in attendance was Donald Trump, who claimed fairness isn't really my game.
Lauren Burke
Senator Warner has sent a letter to the biggest AI companies, hoping to address security issues before the technology goes too far.
Michael Pope
The response was (in a robot voice), "Everything is fine. Please stop asking questions". That was my robot voice.
Lauren Burke
The Chesapeake school board will still allow their facility to be used by outside groups, even one called Satan Club.
Michael Pope
Yeah, the Satan cub. I think they're going straight to hell, really, because they missed the golden opportunity for a better name. The Beelzebub-Club.
Lauren Burke
In the ongoing battle against pollution, Loudoun County has added 16 electric buses to its fleet.
Michael Pope
Electric buses. Yes, when they asked how they were faring, the buses replied (in robot voice), "Everything is fine. Please stop asking questions". Let's play a round of trivia. So last week, we asked you about the mountain in the Shenandoah National Park that Harry Bryd climbed every year on his birthday. So when he was in a hotly contested Democratic primary against Francis Pickens Miller in 1952, he challenged his opponent to hike the mountain with him, so that never happened. But it sure added some drama to that 1952 US Senate primary.
Lauren Burke
Kaine has the Senate seat that Bryd once held.
Michael Pope
Yeah.
Lauren Burke
And he's on the ballot next year.
Michael Pope
I can imagine... wouldn't it be funny if Kaine challenged his opponent to some sort of physical feat? Like a race or something like that?
Lauren Burke
I think Kaine will win.
Michael Pope
Well, we will see, we'll have to see. Alright, so we have a winner for our trivia contest, Issac Sarver, who also happens to be a regional director for Senator Mark Warner. So, he probably knows something about all of this. And we've got some prizes, potential prizes here. A hipster Nixon poster reading, I did secret recordings before they were cool. Or an IOU from the Rockingham County Fair. You bring it, we'll deep fry it. Or perhaps a personalized Michael Pope robot voice on your voicemail. (in a robot voice), "I don't know if anyone would like that."
Lauren Burke
Very nice. Okay, so what's the trivia question for next week?
Michael Pope
Yeah, let's move on. Let's return to the year 2023. So, forget about the 1950s for now; let's return to our current election cycle. Here is the trivia question: How many incumbents are running unchallenged this year? I'll give you a hint. It's too many.
Lauren Burke
It is definitely, definitely too many.
Michael Pope
When you got these new maps, and these are brand new maps. Obviously, there are lots of incumbents, but nobody is an incumbent in the traditional sense where they're running on the same map. Everybody's running in these new maps. And even under those circumstances, we can't get candidates to challenge some of these people? What's up with that?.
Lauren Burke
I know, and with the new maps, as we just learned on primary day, June 20th, that anything can happen with these new maps. So I'm surprised it wasn't more of a very formal strategy to run in every seat. Particularly in this age of politics, we have with MAGA, and all this and knowing that Trump could come back, so we'll see. There are a lot of unchallenged incumbents, too many?
Michael Pope
Yeah, actually, in Alexandria, where I live, we have three House members in our Alexandria delegation, and none of them have a challenger. They were all unopposed. If you thought these new maps were going to lead to more competition, think again. Because we're not really seeing it, certainly where I live. What about you, where you live? Do you have challengers on the ballot?
Lauren Burke
Well, yes. House District 89 is where I vote. So we have Karen Jenkins and Clint Jenkins ascending, which, by the way, is a historic thing. A married couple.
Michael Pope
Yeah, that's historic.
Lauren Burke
Yeah, it is a historic thing. But anyway, yes. There is a lot of competition, certainly in the Hampton Roads area, Southside. But you're right when it gets really blue and really red, the parties kind of just don't run anybody. Which a lot of people argue is a strategic mistake because that open incumbent isn't allowed to take the campaign money they have and help other folks who are in contested races.
Michael Pope
Alright, let's head over to the water cooler. Lauren, what's the latest you're hearing about the water cooler.
Lauren Burke
Well, speaking of contested races and open seats and all that, a typo in an email, leaving a Southside Senator without opposition this fall, is one of the issues. Democrat Trudy Berry thought she had done everything she needed to do to get on the ballot to run against Republican Senator Frank Ruff of Mecklenburg. Unfortunately, a democratic official, Oliver, tragically passed away, by the way, on July 19th after a long illness. Accidentally left off the .gov in the email address at the end. Thus, Trudy Berry's paperwork was not sent to the right place before the April 11th deadline. As a result, it looks like Trudy Berry won't be on the ballot. The state board of elections declined to hear her appeal, and Trudy Berry and her attorney were wondering why she hasn't received the same treatment as Dave LaRock, Clint Jenkins, and Terry Kilgore, who had very similar situations.
Michael Pope
If you live in glass houses, don't throw stones. I certainly make a lot of typos and errors myself. So, I'm not going to cast any aspersions there. As you mentioned, Dave LaRock found himself in a similar situation, and he ended up being on the ballot. Clint Jenkins was in a similar situation; he ended up being on the ballot. Terry Kilgore, again, was in a very similar situation; he ended up being on the ballot. There is a key distinction, though, because now there's new leadership. Now we've got the Governor Youngkin version of the State Board of Elections.
Lauren Burke
Exactly.
Michael Pope
When Bob Brink was chairman, he was willing to give some leeway to LaRock, Jenkins, and Kilgore. Now, the new chairman, John O'Bannon, is a former Republican Delegate. And it seems like he's less willing to let stuff slide.
Lauren Burke
Yeah, apparently. It's kind of odd because the state party now has finally come out and said, which they did this week at the hearing that Trudy Barry's attorney spoke at. They came out and said it was an honest mistake; it was something that shouldn't have happened. We are for her being on the ballot; she should be on the ballot. The other thing is sort of related to this as in that same district in that same area, where Clem Oliver is the democratic chair, Jasmine Lipscomb, in HD 49, had a paperwork timing issue that I think is related to the fact tragically that Clem Oliver was passing away from cancer at the same time. And so the lack of sort of awareness, and you have to realize that the state party, of course, does have a spreadsheet of what's going on, for all the candidates, for who has filed and who hasn't. This is not something generally that nobody knows about. These things are paid attention to: who's filing and who is not. So I think at the moment where we see Danny Marshall and Frank Ruff, two Republicans who now have no opposition because of these, quote, paperwork, snafus. I think, in a year where redistricting has played a huge factor in the level of competition and, quite frankly, also the issue of abortion is now playing a huge factor, as we saw in Ohio, a red state. One would think that both parties, particularly the Democratic Party, would want to seat every seat and run candidates for every seat. And something like the Trudy Berry situation where it is really a fluke. And now the state party is saying, yeah, this is a fluke, an error, by somebody who tragically just passed away in July. You would think that the board would say, Look, she should be on the ballot; we should have competition; it shouldn't just be people running against nobody. And in the past, they have fixed these problems up. That same board has said, Look, this was a mistake; we'll just say that, you know, this person shouldn't be seated. And you know, Trudy Barry had all her other paperwork in on time. So it's really strange that it's not been fixed, frankly. But it hasn't been fixed, and the conversation continues. What about you, Michael? What's the latest you've heard about the water cooler?
Michael Pope
Well, last week, I was in Richmond for the Virginia Association of Counties Summit, which was kind of, I would describe, nerdy fun. I mean, you could nerd out on local government. I've spent many, many years covering local government in Northern Virginia. So, I actually love stuff like this. And there were a lot of really interesting panel discussions. Sam Rasul was there; he talked, and he urged local governments to try to stay out of the headlines. Which was kind of interesting to a journalist; I was like, What do you mean to stay out of the... but he was talking about, like, fighting the urge to be in the national headlines. You know, with, like, banning books, for example, or even, and he didn't explicitly say this, but you could also interpret it from our previous discussion on transgender policies. You know, if your local school board takes a vote one way or the other, it's going to make headlines; you could just sort of keep your existing policy; you don't have to change your policy. So you know, Rasul is urging them to stay out of the national headlines with the culture wars. Terry Kilgore was talking about nuclear power; he represents part of Virginia that, for many, many years, survived on coal. That, of course, is diminishing. So, these small modular reactors are viewed by a lot of people as the next best thing and nuclear power could be very important for Virginia's future. Senator Creigh Deeds was there, and he talked about the budget, and he was pretty hopeful about a potential budget deal. And in the room here with all these members of Boards of Supervisors and county officials from all across Virginia, the budget impasse was the topic of conversation, and these people were worked up about it, Lauren; I mean, they were really mad that the General Assembly has failed to come around to make budget amendments. And when you bring this topic up at the budget amendments, people will say, Well, Virginia's got a two-year budget, and it's not like the government's going to shut down; we've got it, we've got an existing budget in place. And so it's really not the end of the world that you don't have budget amendments. Well, just try telling that to the supervisors. One of the ones I spoke with was a supervisor in Floyd County, Linda DeVito Kuchenbuch, and she was telling me that her local school division can't buy a school bus. They want to buy a school bus, and they need to buy a school bus. They were depending on a budget amendment to allow them to buy a school bus. And now the safety of their students is in peril because of the inaction of the General Assembly. So, this actually has real-world consequences here that I think people often overlook when they talk about the political back and forth.
Lauren Burke
Oh, absolutely. I do think they are going to come up with a budget. They are going to come up with a budget, I think, in part because, quite frankly, I do my prediction for Glenn Youngkin is he's going to end up in the 2024 presidential race. And the last thing he needs around his neck is not having a budget done, which is just the most basic thing that an executive does.
Michael Pope
Yeah, but for him, he can blame the Democrats. This is really very tribal in terms of, like, if you're mad about the budget impasse, and you're Republican, you can blame the Democrats. And if you're a Democrat, you can blame the Republicans; everybody gets to point a finger.
Lauren Burke
Yeah, you get to point a finger. But I just think it's a bad look when you can't do one of the most basic functions of the chief executive of a Commonwealth in this case. And so I just think he's going to figure out a way to make it happen. I am interested. Sam Rasoul's a nice guy; he's too nice. He's too nice, so I mean, the idea of staying out of the staying out of the national media. I think this is the day that we live in now, the era that we're in now, is all but impossible. So much is going on, from the banning of books, and some of this is happening in Virginia, taking books off the shelves, and certainly the abortion issue and the Roe being repealed. I think it's really hard, even when you're a local-level politician, to stay out of those conversations.
Michael Pope
It's so funny you say that Rasoul's too nice. He actually had an anecdote that speaks to that a little bit about something that happened recently. Where the Republicans had killed a bunch of Democratic bills, and the Democrats were mad. And they went into their closed-door caucus, and they're yelling, you know, those Republicans! I can't believe they did this! We need to screw them over somehow! So, one of the bills on the docket that day was to give taxing authority to Halifax so they could build a high school. Well, guess what you need, like a two-thirds vote on the taxing authority bill. So the Democrats had this golden opportunity to screw the Republicans. And in their caucus meeting, they were all saying we're going to prevent them from getting the taxing authority in Halifax as revenge for what happened that day in the General Assembly. And Rasoul says that he stood up and said, hey, you know, this is really not a good idea because this goes against everything we stand for. And they kind of need a high school than Halifax. So, if they want to tax themselves to build a high school, it's probably a good thing to let them do it. And so it kind of runs counter to the tribal instinct to screw the Republicans and prevent them from having the taxing authority. But the levelheaded thing to do was to vote in favor of them despite the fact that your urge was to seek revenge, right? But apparently, resold talked them into voting in favor of the Halifax taxing authority, and they're about to get their new high school.
Lauren Burke
Wow, he's such a nice dude, though. I mean, you wish that most politicians had that sort of conciliatory attitude: let's not fight. But we're in an age where that doesn't necessarily work all the time. But it is good to hear that it is good to hear that.
Michael Pope
Alright, let's go ahead and open up that Pod Virginia mailbag! And get a sense of what our listeners are talking about. So we got a lot of feedback about our exit interview with Senate Majority Leader Dick Saslaw, who, on our podcast, he admitted to making a mistake supporting the redistricting commission. So, Blue Virginia had some comments on that posting. The only reason that Saslaw seems to dislike the redistricting commission is that some of his allies and pals lost their primaries; George Barker, Chap Petersen, Joe Morrissey, and others were screwed by it, like Linwood Louis. Another person said Senator Saslaw, Barker, and colleagues set up a flawed referendum to keep control in the hands of the legislative leaders. It was doomed to deadlock, and it appears the Virginia Supreme Court empowered skilled experts who drew mostly fair districts. Philip Thompson wrote that Saslaw didn't think it would be used to get rid of conservative white male Democrats like him, but the Virginia General Assembly would look more like the population of Virginia. And Cheryl Baldwin posted Virginia Democrats had been the ones demanding a bipartisan redistricting commission when they were in the minority. They got to choose the very Democrat-leaning special master from California who, indeed, produced a Democrat-leaning redistricting map. This is Cheryl Baldwin's perspective. So she says that Virginia is overwhelmingly supportive of the commission with a two-thirds vote. So yeah, Lauren. Wow, that interview with Dick Saslaw really sparked a lot of discussion.
Lauren Burke
Absolutely. It was a great interview, Michael; it was fantastic, actually. And it's funny that right at the end, that hit. I think Phil Thompson actually sums up, probably, why he said that when we do have a historic moment, in which we're going to have a record number of African Americans in the Virginia Senate next year. No matter what, we're gonna have a record number of African Americans in the Virginia Senate. And we're going to have a record number of African Americans in the Virginia House. So, the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus is going to hit a record. So it is kind of quizzical in that at that moment. Senator Saslaw says, Well, this, this redistricting thing was a bad idea. But to Phil Thompson's point, he's an attorney in Loudoun, and a friend of mine and a Marine. Thank you for your service, Phil. It is making Virginia more representative. I mean, the population in the Commonwealth is 20% Black, and without African Americans, Democrats cannot win anything statewide. Certainly, it is one of the most dedicated groups in the Democratic Party, so why wouldn't it have that representation? But I just think that is what we should be trying to get to representation. And it does matter in policy; people's lived experiences and where they come from, of course, matter in policy.
Michael Pope
It did strike me that the reason that Saslaw thought it was a mistake is that so many incumbents were pushed out. And I think a lot of voters are like, okay, so what? So what if the incumbents got voted out?
Lauren Burke
Well, I do think Saslaw's point on the loss of historic memory is huge. I do think that he makes a very good point on that. Because you do want people around who know what's going on and who knows what has happened in the past. There's no doubt about that. And you're losing a lot of that historical memory with a lot of the folks that are leaving. And shout out to some of the folks leaving: I mean, I love Saddam's Salim, I thought he ran a fantastic race. But Chap Peterson was a good senator for his constituency; he represented small business really, really well. I do think there's a need in the party in both parties to have some moderates. People that do sometimes lean a little bit to the other side. Having everybody to the left and everybody to the right is not necessarily a good thing in our politics. Because this is a historic change that we're about to see, there's no doubt about it. It's also a shift. And maybe he's reacting to this as well. But I don't think he implicitly said it; he's in Falls Church. There is going to be a shift of power. If the Democrats take the House back and keep the Senate, there's going to be a shift in power from Northern Virginia, in my view, to Hampton Roads. And that shift is going to be reflected in some of the Black members. You already have Bobby Scott, who was chair of a very influential committee that everybody cares about, which is Jobs and Education, and he is the ranking member of that committee and doing check ceremonies every five seconds. You could potentially have made Mamie Locke as Majority Leader in the Senate. You would also historically have the first Black speaker of the House and leader, Don Scott. So even without that happening, even if they don't take the House, you do have that influence, and of course, Louise Lucas ends up as the Chair of the Finance Committee. So there's a geographic shift there. And that's probably what I suspect in the back of his mind was thinking when he said, Wow, this redistricting thing didn't go too well. But again, I do think he's right on the historical memory piece you do. You do want people who do know how the Commonwealth is governed, the things that have happened in the past, and we're losing a lot of those people. And that part is not necessarily a good thing.
Michael Pope
Yeah, actually, you raise a really strong point that I hadn't actually thought about, which is In the scenario where you've got speaker Don Scott, Majority Leader Mamie Locke, and Senate Finance Chair Louise Lucas, that's a center of power in Hampton Roads. I mean, that's sort of leaving Northern Virginia in the dust.
Lauren Burke
Absolutely. Also, you do have a governor who is from Virginia Beach, and the Attorney General is from Virginia Beach. There are a bunch of power players from that part of the state in a way that we have not had. I don't think ever if I had to look. So it's not just the demographic or the racial or that this or that. I mean, is this a geographical shift there? So we'll see what that means. It may mean a lot. It may mean not a lot, you know; you don't know until history gives you the answer. But it was a really good interview, Michael; I'm glad you did it. I went it when it hit when it hit my podcasting app. I was there at seven in the morning and wherever it was updated. It was a fantastic interview. We don't do enough of these exit interviews, and Dick SASLAW is a historic figure in the Commonwealth of Virginia and has lived a lot of history. He ran statewide, and really, there's a lot to learn. And want to hear from him whether we agree with it or not. I really love that interview.
Michael Pope
We also got a lot of feedback on our episode about the Readmission Act, which was about this lawsuit filed by the ACLU to challenge the fact that Virginia currently disenfranchises so many people in violation of the redistricting act. So, the folks at the ACLU posted that democracy should mean that everyone has a voice. The Great Falls Democrats also like the discussion of the ACLU lawsuit posting this yet another failed reconstruction law implementation and the vestige of Jim Crow. So, Lauren, this lawsuit is really interesting because it says, The 1870 readmission act that allowed Virginia to rejoin the United States of America, they were worried, and for a good reason. They were worried that Virginia would try to disenfranchise Black voters. And so they said, We're going to have a specific list, and you cannot disenfranchise anybody unless it's on this list. And here's the list. Murder, manslaughter, arson, burglary, robbery, rape, sodomy, mayhem and larceny. You will notice what's not on that list is drug offenses, right? So it is like actually, in violation of this 1870 law, this law still on the books, it's in violation of that law to disenfranchise people for drug offenses, or anything that's not on that list that I just read. So, this is a fascinating lawsuit. I'm really curious to see how this plays out. It's gonna
Lauren Burke
It would be very interesting to see how that plays out. Virginia has an unfortunate special history when it comes to issues of incarceration and district disenfranchisement, and, frankly, also to people dying in prison. So I mean, I think that all of that needs to be confronted, and I cannot wait to see the result of this lawsuit. You know, some of these older laws that come up and end up being issues contemporaneously in real-time have been a fascinating feature of Virginia's history. But this is something definitely to watch. And I'm glad that you guys highlighted it. You highlighted, I believe, the podcast, two podcasts before it was a really interesting discussion. Yeah,
Michael Pope
So stay tuned on that one. We also got some feedback on our discussion about how the number of people over the age of 55 behind bars in Virginia has doubled over the last decade. Sarah Shriver heard the episode and wondered about compassionate release, posting this on threads: How compassionate is it to lock people away during their working years and then release them with no income? No savings, no health care, no job, no home? I'm glad you shared the story of a man who wanted to go to jail just to have some peace for a few days. So much work needs to be done to perform prisons. It's overwhelming. So yeah, Lauren, Virginia has a mass incarceration problem here. It's actually if Virginia was a country that would have the highest rate of incarceration in the world. And so you really have to wonder about, you know, not just mass incarceration, but locking up people over the age of 55. Like, does that serve anybody's best interest?
Lauren Burke
Yeah, and no, it doesn't, and I'm gonna rip off some lines from what I heard Congressman Bobby Scott say in his last town hall in Newport News three days ago. You know, politicians really gain a lot by bragging about incarceration and being tough on crime and beating their chest on wanting to hand out felonies. And what it does is it disables everything, and it costs billions of dollars, and it doesn't work. And you know, the United States still leads the world in the rate of incarceration. Virginia is a leader in this country in the raid of incarceration specifically, and we are seeing these trends of policing homeless people and over-policing on people who are addicted to drugs, which, of course, has a racial component. And as we see the opioid blow up, particularly around fentanyl happening, a lot of times they're being white victims of that particular addiction, we're seeing a difference, a little bit of a shift on over-incarceration and punitive punishment on that issue. But still, we do see it, and it's a waste of money. And it's a waste of time. And when people need to be treated for substance abuse, that is a medical issue. That's what the focus should be. And not on incarceration. It's a very expensive game that we're playing. And we destabilize people when they have a felony, and they can't work, and they can't provide for their families. And particularly as we talk about nonviolent offenses like homelessness, my boyfriend and I have a homelessness thing that we do, pretty quietly, actually, in Virginia and Washington, DC, around the holidays, particularly on Thanksgiving and Christmas. And I'm amazed that there is no policy for that in this country. I know it's a complicated policy, housing insecurity. It is a complicated issue. But you know, when we can, we can ship billions of dollars overseas. I just feel like we can figure that that that out here. And you can see we're trying to criminalize homelessness, not only in California, but we're doing it on the east coast as well. And it says leading to a lot of a lot of taxpayer money going into that. That is just really a waste of time.
Michael Pope
All right, let's celebrate some days on the calendar.
Lauren Burke
This week is Virginia Aviation Week.
Michael Pope
Virginia Aviation Week, unless you fly United, in which case your holiday has been delayed. Today, Monday, August 21st, is the birthday of Senator Scott Surovell.
Lauren Burke
And Wednesday, August 23rd, is the birthday of House Majority Leader Terry Kilgore of Scott County.
Michael Pope
Thursday, August 24th, is the birthday of Senator George Barker of Fairfax and the birthday of Delegate John McGuire of Goochland County.
Lauren Burke
Saturday, August 26th, is Women's Equality Day.
Michael Pope
And then Sunday, August 27th, is the birthday of Delegate Tim Anderson of Virginia Beach. So that's it for this episode of Pod Virginia.
