Michael Pope 0:30

I'm Michael Pope.

Thomas Bowman 1:11

I'm Thomas Bowman.

David Ramadan 1:12

And I am David Ramadan.

Michael Pope 1:14

And this is Transition Virginia, the podcast that examines the ongoing transition of power in Virginia politics, and hey, we've got a new transition of power, Republicans are coming into power. Now, David Ramadan, I'm eager to get your perspective on Republicans coming into power, because you are a former Republican elected official, who made the decision to endorse the Democratic candidate for governor instead of the Republican candidate for governor. I'd love to hear your perspective about that decision, about your endorsement, and how you feel about it now, in retrospect?

David Ramadan 1:58

Thanks, Michael. And good to be back with you and Thomas on the podcast. Look, I'm a lifelong conservative and still am. And as a lifelong conservative, I endorsed Terry McAuliffe for governor, because I truly believed, and still do, that he would have made a great governor, and that he was the best man for the job. Terry had the vision, Terry had the experience, Terry had the fortitude to take Virginia to the next step. Mr. Youngkin, now, Governor Elect Youngkin, who I publicly congratulated, won the campaign. It was the perfect storm, in my mind. I wrote an op ed in the in the Washington Post about that, that included schools issues, Right to Work, defund the police, you know, the atmosphere and Biden's ratings out of D.C. The three candidates from one side being all Nova, versus the demographic, and geographic variety on the on the Republican side. So there were many, many factors which will take a whole episode on its own, to discuss what happened. However, I believed, then, and those are facts, Mr. Youngkin, now Governor Elect Youngkin, did not have the experience, did not have the knowledge, and he had gone out of day one on his primary talking about election integrity, which is a dog whistle for the big lie that came out of D.C. I'm told that he does not believe that. I was told then that he doesn't believe this stuff, and he was saying it so that he can win the primary.

Michael Pope 3:36

What do you think about that? So you just said that you were told that he doesn't believe that. What's your impression of what he actually believes?

David Ramadan 3:44

I don't know. I don't know him. Never, never sat down and met with him so I can ask him that. I said, you know, when even before I endorsed Terry I was asked if I would meet with him, I said absolutely. If he wants to call, I'll take his call, if he wants to meet, I'll meet. Heck, I'll take him for a Lebanese meal, as I take all everybody that I consider friends, or contacts, and happy to discuss any issue with him. But my point, then to the person asking me that, I said, "But let me tell you, I'm going to tell him to his face what I'm telling you. I think it's worse if he doesn't believe it, and he's trafficking in it." At least I give Donald Trump a little bit of credit, not much, I mean, if you see my fingers is they're almost touching, just little bitty stuff with credit for believing his own crazy stuff. But if you don't believe in your trafficking in it, that that's worse in my mind. So we'll see. We'll know when he governed. Now, how's he going to govern? We'll we'll all be watching. I wish him luck. I wish everybody who won luck, because that's better for Virginia, better for our Commonwealth for them to succeed, I want anybody in office to succeed, but only time will tell if he believes that or not. And, hey, there's going to be an early indication, what's he going to do in that Virginia seven primary, when his best buddy on the campaign trail, and Trump in heels, Amanda Chase decided to jump in. Was there a deal made between them? Did he tell her to not run as an independent and he'll endorser for this? Who knows? Did he...Is he gonna come in and endorse her on her campaign or not? Is he gonna do it because he believes in her message? Or was there a side deal? Who knows? I mean, we'll get to figure all that out as we come down. But Terry was the better candidate, in my mind, for the job. And I don't regret it, and put aside my personal friendship with him, of course, but it is what it is, and our fellow Virginians decided who to vote for, slim majority, but they did. And guess what, we did not have election integrity issues in Virginia, obviously, because Virginia was governed by Democrats in the House, and the Senate, and the Governor's Mansion. And heck, if there was election integrity issues, don't you think they would have rigged it? No, they didn't. No, we never had election integrity issues in Virginia. It was a dog whistle. And I do hope that the Governor Elect does not govern in the way that he ran on those issues, but that he comes to senses and sensibility and get to realize what Virginia is all about.

Thomas Bowman 6:18

Terry McAuliffe was the only Democrat you endorsed as far as the statewides go, right?

David Ramadan 6:23

Correct. As a matter of fact, not only he's only one I endorsed, the only one I supported. I did support Jason Miyares for Attorney General. This wasn't a matter of Republicans or Democrats. I did not endorse, or support, anybody on the LG race. Even though I served as a Republican, I consider myself, now, a former Republican, and my support and decision on who to help on a campaign, and different levels, depend on the candidate himself or herself, not based on which letter is is after their name. So I endorsed and worked on the campaign trail for Terry McAuliffe, and I supported Jason Miyares for Attorney General during this campaign.

Thomas Bowman 7:07

Well, I'm so glad that you mentioned that, because in the second half of the show, we interviewed the Commonwealth Attorney for Fairfax County, Steve Descano. He's fired up. And he had a lot to say about the Attorney General Elect Jason Miyares.

Michael Pope 7:24

Yes, you will definitely want to stick around for the second half of the podcast when you will hear from the Fairfax County Commonwealth's Attorney, Steve Descano. But first, let's get to the news. So what happens when your local prosecutor, decides against pressing charges in a case, or maybe they strike a controversial plea deal? Attorney General elect Jason Miyares says, "[he] wants to step in and prosecute local cases when the Commonwealth's Attorney won't."

Jason Miyares 7:59

In all this discussion about criminal justice reform the media's talked about, you know the person they never talked about? Victims. They don't talk about the victims. And that has been a central plank of why I ran, central plank of what got me elected. So I'm going to end the criminal first, victim last mindset, and have a victim first, criminal last mindset.

Michael Pope 8:18

Miyares wants to the General Assembly to allow a sheriff, or chief of police, to request his office step in and take up cases that won't be handled by a local elected prosecutor. Now Senator John Edwards is a Democrat from Roanoke, who is Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and he says, "That bill that Miyares wants, has no chance at all in [his] committee."

John Edwards 8:45

He has no authority under the Constitution. And the likelihood of the assembly granting of that authority is zero. That's not going to happen, not in the Senate of Virginia, and not in my committee.

Michael Pope 8:56

So, David Ramadan, I'd love to get your perspective here, in terms of what we can expect, in terms of a House/Senate relationship in 2022. Now historically, of course, the House and Senate have been at odds, even when they're both of the same party. This is a kind of a different situation where you're- we're going to have a new Republican majority in the House that will be at odds with a Democratically controlled Senate. What's gonna happen with this bill that the Attorney General wants, and seems like it may get through a Republican controlled House, then it gets over to Chairman Edwards' Judiciary Committee. David Ramadan, what's going to happen in that Judiciary Committee meeting, when Chairman Edwards is going to do everything in his power to kill that bill?

David Ramadan 9:51

Look, Attorney General Elect Jason Miyares is very smart. And you got to really listen to to what he's talking about. He was talking about victims first, criminal last. That does not mean, necessarily, that he's going to take away prosecutorial- or he or he intends to, take away prosecutorial discretion from Commonwealth Attorneys. So the devils in the details here, on what is going to be what the general, or aka, "the General," as we refer to our Attorney Generals in Virginia, what the General is going to want, or what he's going to try to get through the General Assembly. Put that aside for a second, something that that all of us who served in Richmond would know, that the biggest fights in the General Assembly is not between Republicans and Democrats in the House, or Republicans and Democrats in the Senate. It's actually between the House and the Senate period. And that's the regardless of who's in charge of each chamber. Even when Republicans were in charge of both, you would see the biggest fights and disagreements between the House in general and then the Senate in general. We've seen in the last two years, even though both House and Senate were controlled by the Democrats, and we saw huge fights between the Democrats in the House and the Democrats in the Senate. Those two bodies don't play well to start with. And I'll have a story after story on showing up in front of the Senate committees as a member of the House. I've served when they were...when the Democrats were in control. So the head of the committee would be a Democrat, and I've served when the Republicans controlled the Senate and a Republican would be in charge of that committee, and two of which are on this particular committee, Saslaw and Norment. And let me tell you, it doesn't matter if you're Republican or Democrat, you show up in front of those senators, and they've got a mind of their own that has nothing to do with an R or a D. They function independently of political affiliation when they're down there.

Michael Pope 11:51

And also their default, this is my impression of sitting in on many of those committee meetings, it seems to me like their default is to kill it.

David Ramadan 12:00

Yes.

Michael Pope 12:01

Right. Whatever the bill is, let's just get rid of this thing, and move on to the next thing on the agenda. I mean, like, I kind of feel like the default move is, let's end this thing now and talk about something else.

David Ramadan 12:10

Correct. If it's coming from the House, their default is to kill it. If it's something that's coming from the general public that they'd like to get credit for, their default is to pass it, and then let the House kill it. We've seen many of those over the years. That's just the game or the name of the game down there.

Michael Pope 12:31

So I'm glad you brought that up. I had an opportunity to interview Jason Miyares about that bill, giving his office the ability to prosecute those local cases. And I asked him specifically, you know, do you have a patron yet? And he did not. He has put together like a, you know, like, a workgroup, an advisory committee, and he's still working through the details about how it would work, and what the language would be, and who would patron it. And so at this point, we really don't know if it's a House patron or a Senate patron. But it sounds like from, if I'm hearing you right, that it would stand a better chance of passing if it had a Senate patron, right?

David Ramadan 13:09

No, not necessarily, because that's when then, within the Senate, it will play with with Republicans versus Democrats. But if it's coming overall from the House, then it's not that. And I, look, it's gonna be, not just this bill, any initiatives taken by- that are going to be considered, not necessarily just partisan, but they're going to be considered either leaning right, or right initiatives, coming out, either from Senate members or House members, are going to be stopped in the Senate, and they're going to be stopped mostly in committees, rather than in the fourth floor, because the Senate Caucus has more room to play in committees than they do on the Senate floor. For example, et's use Senate Judiciary here as an example. Senate Judiciary has 15 members, 10 Democrats and five Republicans. So even if 1, 2, 3 Democrat senators decided not to play with the rest of their Caucus, right? And we've heard quite a bit about the independent streak of few of the senators, namely Chap Peterson and Joe Morrissey, both of which are members of the Senate Judiciary Committee. But even if they I'm not saying that they would support this bill, but in general, if you've got 1, 2, 3 Democrat senators that decide not to play on a specific bill or issue, the rest of the Senate Caucus are still going to have enough votes to kill most of these bills in committees. The danger is if it makes it to the to them, danger to the Senate Caucus on controlling these votes is if these bills make it out of committee to the floor. On the 21/19 majority on the floor, it takes one senator to be absent, it takes one senator to not be paying attention, takes one senator to defect on that issue or decide not to vote on the issue, they don't even have to vote with other side, they can simply decide not to vote on it. And if that happens, then you got 20/19, and the Lieutenant Governor can, if it's an even vote, the Lieutenant Governor, on most of these can jump in. So there'll be- there's less room for the Senate Caucus on the floor. But I suspect that most of these issues, including this one, should it make it to the Senate, whether it's from a Senate member, or if it makes it out of the House comes to the Senate, will die in committees, because the the numbers on committees is much higher than it is on the floor.

Thomas Bowman 13:13

Yeah. And Dave, you are not playing up the rivalry between the House and the Senate enough, even as much as you are because I've never seen any kind of like the partisan rancor just drops away when the House, which is what I would always watch, got to vote on a motion to reject the Senate amendments and insist on their own. Because that's, it seems like increasingly, that's the one time, no matter what the bill is, that the Republicans and the Democrats often will have a unanimous vote.

David Ramadan 16:15

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and look, there are hundreds of these examples. In the last two years there are image, after image, after image of, of the Speaker of the House and the Majority Leader working the Senate folks in the in the hallway, and the Senate folks are Saslaw and Lucas, and they're all of the same party, they're all of the same area, most of them- so Saslaw and, and Eileen, and Chanel, they're all from Northern Virginia. And on one big issue after another, most of which are Democratic issues or left issues, they even found major disagreements among them. So this is not necessarily a partisan issue, as much as it is a territorial in the way that the two bodies work. And we will see that again and again, which, overall, is going to be also a major impediment for the Governor Elect who made a lot promises. And he's not going to be able to deliver on most of these promises, because most of his promises, if not all, will be stopped in the Senate. So the name of the game will be what happens next year, we're most likely going to have another election for, at least the House of Delegates next year, special election. And then what happens in 2023, when they are all up for reelection again, and that's both House and Senate. And unless the Republicans get majority of both House and Senate, you're going to see, not only Jason Miyares initiatives, but the Governor Elects initiatives as well stopped in Senate committees. And that's probably about 99% of those will be stopped.

Michael Pope 17:53

All right. Well, Virginia politics is a business that's largely predicated on relationships. And we, at Transition Virginia, value our relationship with David Ramadan, so it's so great to talk to you again. Thank you for joining us.

David Ramadan 18:08

Happy to be with you.

Thomas Bowman 18:09

Thanks David.

Michael Pope 18:12

All right. When we come back, we will be joined by the Commonwealth's Attorney for Fairfax County, Steve Descano. He's got a few things to say about Attorney General Elect Jason Miyares' plan to Bigfoot local prosecutors in Fairfax and Loudoun County. We'll hear about that after this break.

And we're back on Transition Virginia. We're talking about newly elected Attorney General, Jason Miyares, and his campaign promise to take over prosecutions he doesn't feel like are being handled properly in places like Fairfax County. Well guess who doesn't think too much of that idea? Commonwealth's Attorney Steve Descano, who's joining us now. Thanks for joining us.

Steve Descano 19:44

Thanks for having me, Michael and Thomas. I'm really glad to be here.

Michael Pope 19:47

Well, we're glad to have you. And we really appreciate you joining us on the podcast. So I want to get into this criticism that we've heard from Miyares, both on the campaign trail, and now that he's been elected, what he envisions for the upcoming General Assembly session, where he wants the General Assembly to give his office the power to prosecute cases in Loudoun County, in Fairfax County, basically anywhere he doesn't think that they were adjudicated properly. And I had an opportunity to speak to Miyares recently about this. And I asked him about how local prosecutors across Virginia might end up reacting to his proposed legislation. This is a bit of our exchange on that. As a Commonwealth's Attorney, wouldn't it have bothered you for the AG's office to come in and do what it thinks you should have done? Wouldn't that have bothered you as a local prosecutor?

Jason Miyares 20:40

What bothers me are prosecutors that decide to ignore the voices of the victims. And that's why you have such outrage all over Northern Virginia, where you have prosecutors that aren't doing their job.

Michael Pope 20:52

Steve Descano, I think he's looking at you. Why is it that Jason Miyares thinks that you are not doing your job? And what's your reaction to that?

Steve Descano 21:01

Well, I think what's really clear here is that this is a political ploy. When he says that these cases aren't being quote unquote, "adjudicated properly in certain jurisdictions," what he's really referring to is jurisdictions that didn't vote for him. And jurisdictions that don't see the criminal justice system the way that he would like them to see. I mean, there's a reason why he came out of Fairfax County with about 30% of the vote. And the fact that that matter is that the people of Fairfax, the people of Northern Virginia, they don't agree with him. They've elected their Commonwealth's attorney's, such as myself and Fairfax, to do a job and do it a certain way. And really, what's happening here is the same thing that happens anytime somebody shines a light on the system or tries to improve the system or reform the system, which is people will try to use victims as props, and try to make bad faith arguments to maintain that power and kill reform. And that's what Jason Miyares is doing. He's doing in conjunction with Glenn Youngkin, with right wing forces, the FOP, all these other people who are against reform, that's what's really happening here.

Thomas Bowman 22:01

Steve, with an AG that's hostile, to you personally, but other Democratic Commonwealth Attorneys as well. Where does this leave criminal justice reform advocates who got elected on an agenda to take more of a humanist approach to criminal prosecutions?

Steve Descano 22:19

Well, quite frankly, for somebody like myself, and my colleagues who have been elected to do this work, in a locality that allows us to still do this work. The fact of the matter is, is that the people of Fairfax County elected me by a wide margin to do this, they rejected him by an even larger margin. And that's the reason why Jason Miyares wants to get this proposal, which is radical, and unprecedented, approved, because he knows that the path to doing what he wants, the path to going backwards comes through me in Fairfax County. And if he thinks that he's going to be able to ignore the will of the people of Fairfax County, he's got another thing coming. And we just saw polls on this last month. The people who voted for reform, want reform, Miyares' arguments fell flat. And you know, quite frankly, he can't accept that. And he's really, disgustingly, using victims and fear to try to get around the fact that his ideas were rejected.

Michael Pope 23:14

So when I talked to Miyares, the specific case in Fairfax County that caught his attention, was the prosecution of a man accused of repeatedly sexually assaulting a girl in Fairfax County, a minor. And there was a plea deal in the case that the judge rejected because like, I guess the judge didn't feel like it was harsh enough. The case itself seems like there were flaws with the investigation, and the detective might not have turned over all the exculpatory information. And the detective might have been unfamiliar with handling the evidence. So it sounds, to me, like the plea deal that your office put together was kind of, from your perspective, the best that you could have gotten out of the circumstances. So one person who was upset about that plea deal was the mother of the victim. And you know, Miyares, his focus, he says, is on the victims. And when I spoke to him, he actually spoke at length about how he wants to represent victims. Here's part of that exchange.

Jason Miyares 24:15

They have this overriding fear that they're going to be forgotten. And right now, you have victims that are being forgotten, and it breaks my heart. And all this discussion about criminal justice reform the media's talked about, you know, the person they never talked about, reporters never talk about? Victims. They don't talk about the victim, and then it's been a central plank of why I ran, a central plank of what got me elected. So I'm going to end the criminal first, victim last mindset, and have a victim first, criminal last mindset.

Michael Pope 24:44

So Steve Descano, in recent years, we really have seen a lot of changes in the criminal justice system. Some people, like Jason Miyares, interpret that as a criminals first mindset. What would you say to Miyares, and other people, who are concerned about all these changes being essentially, from their perspective, a criminals first mindset? What's your response to that?

Steve Descano 25:08

Well, listening to Jason Miyares, what he just said, you know, I have two thoughts. The first one, it's absolutely disgusting. For him to use the victim of a crime as a political prop, for him to gain political power, which is what he's trying to do, really shows that this is not a guy who understands what prosecution is supposed to be about, and really isn't somebody who's seeking justice. And quite frankly, the idea that when he says that he says it over and over again, my God, it's almost like he's one of those plush dolls, where you pull a string, and you hear, "Victims first, criminals last," or, "Criminals first, victims last." I feel like if he was in here right now, I could pull that string and get that, and get nothing but that. But the fact of the matter is, is that he makes these arguments in bad faith. And people like him, these right wing extremists, make these arguments in bad faith. And I do want to touch on that one case that you mentioned, because it really goes to show how much in bad faith these arguments are. What we're talking about, and I can't talk about- there's basically conflation of two cases, and one, I can't really talk about because it's a live case. But another case where he criticized me, it was a sexual assault case, where we got a 17 year sentence. And he tried to make a big deal out of that. Let me tell you why I did that because it's illustrative of how in bad faith these arguments are. When you have a prosecution, you're trying to do a couple of things. One, you're trying to get guaranteed accountability. Getting a plea agreement gets guaranteed accountability, because the person pleads guilty, you don't take any risk at trial. The second thing is when we have a young victim, we're trying not to traumatize them further. People don't realize how traumatic it is to spend a day getting questioned harshly about the worst thing that ever happened to you in your life. This plea agreement allowed us to keep that young girl off the stand so she didn't have to relive that trauma. And then the third thing that they- he makes a big deal out of, is a 17 year sentence. Well, let me tell you a couple things about that 17 year sentence. First of all, it's higher than 75% of the sentences for this crime in Virginia. Second of all, what he never mentions is that this defendant is in his mid 50s. 17 years puts this guy into his 70s, it's likely that he may never see another- may never see another day outside. And when you take all that into consideration, and when you really put the victim first, and really make sure that they don't have to get traumatized, and there's guaranteed accountability, when you actually take a victim first approach, you see, it's very different from his approach. And what you see is that, what he says, that pull the string and hear that hear the sentence, that is all about political posturing, political points, because he knows that when you actually get into the specifics, people won't see the world the way that he does.

Michael Pope 27:40

Well one of the things about the victim in that case, is that the judge in the case, Thomas Mann, told the victim, "Your government has failed you." What's your reaction to what Judge Mann said there, that, "Your government has failed you?"

Steve Descano 27:55

I think it's really disappointing that a judge would make a political statement from the bench. And quite frankly, if he had the courage of his convictions, he could have rejected that plea. But he did not. Because all political posturing aside, he knows that that was a good plea, and for all the reasons that we just went through. But again, it goes to the fact that, look, if you want to make an enemy, try to change something, even if you're trying to change it for the better. And that's what we're doing here. As soon as you start to shine a light and try to change, you have these forces that are so wedded to doing what they have always done, that they will make up any reason in bad faith to try and come after you. Luckily, the people of Fairfax County, they know what's going on. They want criminal justice reform. They said it when they elected me in 2019. And they set it again in 2021, when they gave Jason Miyares about 30% of the vote.

Thomas Bowman 28:46

I think it's really interesting that you point out that the victim in that one case, did not want to testify, because it really highlights that what Miyares is trying to do, is actually put a partisan agenda first, before he's even in office. He's not thinking about victims, because that victim didn't, in that specific case, didn't want to testify. And also, sometimes you don't get a conviction if you don't have a plea deal involved, for maybe inadequate procedures done by the police, or a thin amount of evidence, or for whatever reason, the state doesn't want to go up into trial. And if you can get that person to plea down, you do get accountability, you do get conviction, and I think former Commonwealth's Attorney, Ag Miyares knows that.

Steve Descano 29:32

He does know that and that's why what he's doing is so gross. Because it is a clear political agenda and political partisan power grab. The fact of the matter is anybody who spent a day in a prosecutor's office knows that every time you go to trial, you take a risk and knows how difficult it is for a young person in particular, to go and testify on the stand, whether or not they, at that moment, think they want to or they or they don't want to. When you see it once or twice, you realize how difficult it is. So I'm really glad you pointed that out, because it shines a light on the lie that Jason Miyares is putting out there. He's trying to act as if he is really the defender of communities, even though he wants Commonwealth's Attorneys to take risks with community safety, that are pointless, other than to beat your chest, and act like you're the toughest guy on the planet. My job, as a prosecutor, is not about me, it's about doing what's right for the community. And getting that guaranteed ability, and helping people avoid trauma, and keeping the community safe. And that's what I intend to keep doing. Because that's what the people of Fairfax County want me to do. And if Jason Miyares thinks that he's going to come into Fairfax County, ignore the will of the people, try to undercut what we're doing here in this office, then he's got another thing coming. Because he's got to run through me. And when he's got to run through me, that means he's got to run to the rest of the people of Fairfax County, we know that's not going to happen.

Thomas Bowman 30:54

So with Miyares winning, how does your role as Fairfax County's Commonwealth Attorney change, compared to what you thought it was going to be with a Republican Attorney General that wants to act like Virginia's top cop, and try to run roughshod over local authority?

Steve Descano 31:09

Well, it doesn't really change at all because he can cosplay all he wants. But the fact of the matter is, is the Constitution doesn't give him the power that he wants. If he really wanted to run prosecution in Fairfax County, he should be on the ballot in two years against me, because I have the job that gives people the power to do what he is seeking to do. So my job doesn't really change that much at all, because he's not the boss of me, that's the genius of our system here. As the local elected Commonwealth's Attorney, I run prosecutions in Fairfax County. He has no authority to do anything in that realm. The really only big change is that I have looked forward to continuing the work that I did with Mark Herrings office, the continuing work with the Attorney General's office that actually would have been useful to the people of Fairfax County. I have worked, and continue to work, with the AG's office on a number of cases. We work on cases because they have some level of expertise on things like animal cruelty cases. So we bring them in and we work side by side on those types of cases. There are other specific types of cases that that office has, specific tools that we use. My worry is that Jason Miyares is so partisan, and he's such a political hack in trying to get these powers that are not his, that he will refuse to engage in good faith with this office. And at the end of the day, all that would do is hurt the people of Fairfax County, the same people that he came on your radio show and said he wants to help.

Michael Pope 32:38

So it's not just cases in Fairfax County where the new Attorney General wants to come in and take action, also in your neighboring jurisdiction over in Loudoun County. There are also a series of cases that he doesn't like the way the Commonwealth's Attorney out there in Loudoun has handled them. Here's what he told me in the part of our discussion where Jason Miyares talks about Loudoun County.

Jason Miyares 33:03

The Loudoun Commonwealth's Attorney has basically, they went from having over 700 domestic violence cases in a year, to about 300, because the Loudoun Prosecutor has decided that domestic violence cases shouldn't have a criminal justice response, which I find so tone deaf, and so devoid of reality, I was just like speechless, when I heard that.

Michael Pope 33:24

Steve Descano, I'm not gonna ask you about your opinion about how the Loudoun County prosecutor is handling cases over there. But I do want to get your perspective on changing perceptions in how domestic violence cases should be handling. You and the other progressive prosecutors for justice might have a different perspective on the best way to handle these kinds of cases. And should they always be part of the criminal justice system? Or maybe there are other ways of handling them? What's the sort of latest thinking, or maybe even evolving thinking, about how domestic violence cases should be handled?

Steve Descano 34:00

Well, it's a really great question. And I will say off the bat, that domestic violence cases are incredibly important to me, and incredibly important to this office. As a matter of fact, I created a unit dedicated to domestic violence cases in my office that had never existed before. And that's how seriously we take them. But we did it for another reason that connects with what Miyares is saying here. Seems to me that Jason Miyares tends to have a real black and white view of the world. And he really thinks that everything should get handled the same way. The reason we created our unit is because we recognize that every case should be handled individually. Every case should be handled in consultation with what the victims need and the victims want. If you take a look at domestic violence cases, many times these cases don't go forward. I think statewide in Virginia, less than 20% of these cases end up in prosecution. And many of those cases are because the victim doesn't want that prosecution. So whereas Jason Miyares, and his view of the world, would look at that victim and say, "Hey, we're going to prosecute this guy, you're going to get nothing." I think people who who really focus on the victim is really taking individualized approach, are trying to come up with some sort of remedy that gets a root causes, and really helps the victim get what they need to heal, and to move forward. Sometimes that's going to be a pure criminal justice response. Sometimes that's going to be something outside of the criminal justice system. Many times it's going to be a hybrid of the two. But the fact of the matter remains that if our system is really going to help these individuals, we have to give a broader response. And somebody like Jason Miyares is pretending to care about victims, using them as props in this disgusting way. But really trying to revive a system that robs them of agency, and doesn't help them at all, really goes to show what he's all about, which is trying to get power for himself, trying to continue on with the old ways, because the new ways are scary to him. And he just disagrees with them. And I think the domestic violence arena really goes to show how in bad faith, his criticisms are.

Michael Pope 36:13

Alright, one last question before we go, and, I really appreciate your time in joining us today, I want to ask you about something totally unrelated to all of the stuff that we just talked about, or I guess, mostly unrelated. So several years ago, I was researching the cash bail system in Fairfax County. And I spent a great deal of time with the guy who owned the largest bail bonding system in Fairfax County. I don't think they're in business anymore. And I think you're the reason they're not in business anymore. Give our listeners an update as to the state of the bail bonds industry in Fairfax County.

Steve Descano 36:48

Well as you can, as you can imagine, Michael, I'm not privy to the inside workings of a bail bonds company, I'm probably not their favorite person. But what I can say is that because of the reforms I've led in my office, primarily no longer asking for cash bond, that work would have dried up. And, you know, I didn't get into this business or make these reforms to hurt any small businesses. But what I did with these reforms is to try to help the community, and help the safety of the community. And we've been really successful with that. At the end of the day, in my opinion, a cash bail company is a company that makes its money off of the backs of poor people who are predominantly Black and Brown. And I think that's wrong. My job is not to prop up industries that shouldn't exist, my job is to work for the people and do justice. And by trying to eliminate cash bail, which we have gone a long way towards, I will still say there may be some judges or magistrates who use it in some cases, but we continue to work towards the goal of having cash bail be completely gone. What we've seen is what everybody's seen every other place that's been tried, which our outcomes improve. Recidivism tends to go down. There's not- there's not an increase in crime. And as a matter of fact, it's better for the community. So I'm very happy to say that we've been very successful in this arena.

Michael Pope 38:05

Great. Well, we really appreciate your time. Any other thoughts about any challenges that you foresee on the horizon, and how your constituents in Fairfax County might be affected by those challenges?

Steve Descano 38:18

You know, I have to say that the biggest challenge is the new administration coming in. I think we've talked a lot about Jason Miyares, but we can't we can't ignore the fact that he's doing all this in concert with Glenn Youngkin. I mean, Glenn Youngkin, he may like to wear a fleece vest and put a big smile on his face. But Miyares told the press that Youngkin's behind this power grab. And that and that Youngkin is going to be behind all of the legislative efforts that Miyares tries to move forward and rolling back the criminal justice reform efforts, and bills that the people of Fairfax fought so hard to get passed in the last couple of years. So I think that's the biggest challenge, knowing that we're going to have the new administration, whether it be Youngkin or Miyares' attack dog, trying to roll back these efforts. But the fact of the matter is, I know that my job, here in the county, is to continue on with reform. And I know that my job down in Richmond is to be down there, advocating for reform, and not letting Glenn Youngkin's attack dog and Jason Miyares trying to snow people in the thinking that reform is bad, and that the old ways are the good ways.