Vetoed Train Regulations, Arena Job Numbers, and the Next Election
IN THE NEWS:
Next week is the final deadline for candidates who want to run for Congress this year, which means that the politics for this year's congressional races are already starting to take shape. The primary election that's currently attracting the largest number of candidates is the Tenth Congressional District, which is open because Jennifer Wexton is vacating the seat.
"30,000 jobs" has become a rallying cry for supporters of a proposal to create a sports arena in Alexandria. But is that a credible number? A request for more information about how that number was calculated was initially met with silence and delays. Finally, 54 days after the request, city officials responded with a one-page document that lays out some but not all of the details. For now the arena proposal is in a holding pattern after the General Assembly failed to include it in its budget proposal.
How many people should be working on trains that come through Virginia? Democrats say all those trains should have at least a two-person crew, and they sent the governor a bill that requires that. But the governor is vetoing that bill. His veto message says the proposed regulations disrupt the ability of railroad companies to access new markets.
At the Watercooler:
Operation Ceasefire--Speaker Scott and AG Miyares were at an event last week to announce a reduction in violent crime in parts of Virginia.
What exactly is going on with the "radio silence" communications strategy from advocates behind the arena?
Episode Transcript
Michael Pope
I'm Michael Pope.
Lauren Burke
I'm Lauren Burke.
Michael Pope
And this is Pod Virginia, a podcast celebrating a birthday this week. Today is the birthday of our own Lauren Victoria Burke. Happy birthday!
Lauren Burke
Thank you. The years go by very quickly. I also want to shout out the late great Aretha Franklin, who was born on this day, along with Elton John. I would also like to say happy birthday to Nancy Pelosi, whose birthday is tomorrow.
Michael Pope
That's quite a power band you've got.
Lauren Burke
Hello, Aries rising.
Michael Pope
Alright, let's get to the news. Next week is the final deadline for candidates who want to run for Congress this year. That means that the politics for this year's congressional races are already starting to take shape. The only incumbent to face a primary challenge so far is Republican Congressman Bob Good. He fell out of favor with Trump supporters when he backed Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. J. Miles Coleman at the University of Virginia says it's difficult to know what will happen in this primary.
J. Miles Coleman
This is a little new territory for him in that this is the first primary he's had to run in. In the past two times, he won at these somewhat shady conventions, you could argue.
Lauren Burke
The primary election that's currently attracting the largest number of candidates is the 10th congressional district, which is open because Jennifer Wexton is vacating the seat. Sam Shirazi says it's the most crowded field of candidates in recent memory.
Sam Shirazi
It's very unusual. You have two State Senators running. You have three current Delegates running, and you have a former Speaker of the House running. You have a former Education Secretary of Virginia running. Just a lot of people throwing their hats into the ring here.
Michael Pope
Yeah, a lot of people throwing their hats into the ring. So Virginia has eleven congressional districts, and seven of them will have primary contests in June of this year. I'm particularly interested here in the 10th, which you heard Sam Shirazi talk about. Lauren, thirteen candidates are running in this race. I remember when Jim Moran decided that he was going to retire, and there was an open congressional seat in the eighth. I remember there were 12 maximum. I mean, most of them ended up dropping out before the primary. But at one point, the maximum number of candidates was like 12. And I thought that was a ridiculously large field. We've got this Wexton seat that's now open in Northern Virginia. There are thirteen candidates, including Senator Jennifer Boysko, former Speaker Eileen Filler-Corn, Delegate Dan Helmer, Delegate Michelle Maldonado, former Education Secretary of Atif Qarni, Delegate David Reid, and Senator Suhas Subramanyam. Lauren, what do you make of this crazy Democratic primary here in the 10th?
Lauren Burke
I don't think it's that surprising. I can remember when Congressman Beyer ran that first time, there had to be at least 15 people in that race.
Michael Pope
That's the one I was just talking about. That's where the Moran seat opened up. And my memory is that 12 was the maximum number of candidates, but it was a lot.
Lauren Burke
It certainly was a ton. And I remember going to the events, and the dais was really long. It was a really interesting race with a lot of good people. And I think it's the same with the 10th. And for that matter, the seventh, which I think has 21 people, if I counted that correctly. It's amazing how many people are running, but it actually isn't that amazing to me. These are densely populated areas in the Commonwealth of Virginia. I went to some of the events; I went to the Fairfax Dems straw poll, and the former Speaker Filler-Corn was there, and Eileen Filler-Corn was there. Dan Helmer was there. I've gone to events and seen Michelle Maldonado, and I'm sure I'll run into Senator Jennifer Boysko at some point. Obviously, she, Delegate Maldonado, Delegate Reid, and Delegate Helmer have been in session. And didn't get the same runway as everybody else. But now that the campaign has begun in earnest, I'm sure we'll be seeing all these candidates at all the candidate forums. And it'll be very interesting to watch because it is going to be very competitive.
Michael Pope
You mentioned the seventh Congressional District. This is the one that was opened up by Abigail Spanberger, who, of course, is not running for reelection to Congress because she wants to run for Governor. So, six Democrats are running for that seat and eight Republicans. So it's crowded, but not as crowded as the 10th. And so the open Spanberger seat has Delegate Elizabeth Guzman, Delegate Briana Sewell, and also this guy, Eugene Vindman, which is interesting because he's raised more than $2 million. He's kind of catapulted himself to front-runner status here based on name recognition.
Lauren Burke
Oh, absolutely. I am also a military vet, which is really important in Virginia for a lot of these races. If you look over the Republican side, they have a very impressive candidate named Derrick Anderson, who was a Green Beret. They also have another military person on the Republican side, Cameron Hamilton, who was a Navy Seal. So it's likely whoever the Democratic candidate is in seventh, they're going to be running against someone in the military with an impressive story. For example, Derrick Anderson and the Republican's Green Beret story and his ad feature are really impressive. The thing about Vindman is that he's likely to be the nominee because the vote was split among Black voters in the Prince William area. Because you have Andrea Bailey, the Potomac District Supervisor on the Prince William Board of County Supervisors. Then you have Margaret Franklin. And then you have Delegate Briana Sewell. So you have three Black candidates running in the seventh. And what tends to happen is a vote split. It might not be an even split, but it'll probably be a split enough to put Vindman over the top. Of course, the other person in there, too, who's important to mention is former Delegate Guzman. So there's that as well. It's good to see this many people running who are really high-quality candidates. But the Democrats, I think, have to be slightly aware of the fact that, quite frankly, I think there's a lack of energy this year and this cycle. The top of the ticket is going to be Joe Biden and Donald Trump. And I don't sense the same level of energy this year that we had last presidential cycle, not yet. Maybe it's too early, I don't know, but if I was Tim Kaine and the gang, I would be thinking about that. Because Tim Kaine looks like Hung Cao is probably gonna get the GOP nomination. There are a lot of people in that race as well, on the Republican side. Three people raised over $400,000. So I think it's going to be Hung Cao, but we don't know. But it'll be competitive and interesting. I think it's a more purple result. Obviously, Governor Youngkin showed everybody how purple that can get. He got real purple, and it got red. So I think the Democrats should be a little bit, I don't know, I wouldn't say worried, but I'm just saying the level of energy isn't what it was four years ago.
Michael Pope
You mentioned Derrick Anderson; he is one of eight Republicans running for the seventh congressional district, which is going to be vacated by Abigail Spanberger. I thought it was interesting that the Democrats are already running against Derrick Anderson as if he's the candidate. I got an email from the DCCC, and the headline is Derrick Anderson and Donald Trump poised to unveil a nationwide abortion ban by gleefully endorsing Donald Trump. Derrick Anderson is joining the former president's efforts to ban abortions nationwide and disregarding a decade-long standard of Roe v. Wade. So yeah, the Democrats either want to run against Derrick Anderson, or they've looked at the dynamics of this race and decided that he's probably gonna be the nominee.
Lauren Burke
Yeah, well, they should be early on that. I don't think he mentioned the abortion in the ad that he has up on his site. But his ad is impressive. There's no doubt about that. And his and his bio is impressive. To go back to the tenth for a second on that Republican side. They have the typical sort of MAGA candidate, Mike Clancy, who's raised a bunch of money, and then they have Alicia Andrews. Now, that's gonna be an interesting choice for Republicans. Are they going to do a sort of Republican-lite, or are they going to go full MAGA? Mike Clancy is going full MAGA for the 10th, and I don't think it will work particularly well for them. But suppose they find a more moderate candidate. In that case, if you look at the Alicia Andrews ad, you can't even tell whether it's Republican or Democrat. The colors on the website and everything don't really signal any of that, which is completely different from what Clancy is doing. It was funny when I was at the Fairfax Dems straw poll thing. One of the candidates, I can't remember which one, it wasn't Helmer or Speaker Filler-Corn. But they got up and said, Look, this is not just about winning the primary. This is about who can win the general as if to say, we're going to have some big-time competition from these Republicans. And I think that's right. I think that Derek Anderson is an impressive candidate. So, it's interesting that DCCC is doing that already.
Michael Pope
Yeah, it's worth noting that Alicia Andrews ran against Jennifer Wexton back in 2020. Wexton won that race with what looks like 57% of the vote vs. 43% for Alicia Andrews. So she's got some name recognition and background here as a candidate. Didn't she work for the Youngkin administration at one point? So, she's also kind of an impressive candidate. Yeah, that's one to watch; that Republican primary is there.
Lauren Burke
Yeah, and also, just like the primary, the Republican primary in the fifth with Bob Good vs. Senator John McGuire. Interesting that Good is apparently not right-wing enough for the folks.
Michael Pope
Lauren, he turned his back on Donald Trump. You don't do that in the Republican party. He endorsed DeSantis, and so the Trump people hate him. That gives a huge opening for McGuire.
Lauren Burke
What does that say about Winsome Sears vs. Mijares for Governor? Obviously, Sears has not endorsed Trump yet.
Michael Pope
Yeah, but she didn't endorse DeSantis.
Lauren Burke
She didn't endorse DeSantis, but she hasn't kissed Trump's ring. It sounds like she's not going to be doing that anytime soon. So it's an interesting moment there. Because Bob Good, I've seen him operate in the halls of Congress. And interestingly, he supported DeSantis. But that's going to be interesting. And it's a huge district that covers a lot of land. It goes from Danville all the way up to Charlottesville. So it'll be interesting to see that race play out. That was an exciting race back in 2020. We had Cameron Webb, I think that is a comparable example because it's a presidential year. Good went up against Cameron Webb. Cameron Webb had a really energetic campaign. And it was like 52%-475, and it was close. Closer than I think the Republicans expected. But the primary, of course, is first, and that'll be on June 18th. So we'll see what happens.
Michael Pope
Well, listeners, be sure to stay tuned to Pod Virginia because the final deadline for candidates is Thursday, April 4th. After we get a complete list of candidates, I'm hoping to get Sam Shirazi on the podcast so we can go through all of the races. Which should be popular with our listeners; the same Shirazi episodes we did last year are literally the most popular episodes we've ever done on Pod Virginia. So, I look forward to that one. All right, let's move on to our next story. Job scan, 30,000 jobs. It's been a rallying cry for supporters of a proposal to create a sports arena in Alexandria. But is it a credible number? A request for more information about how that number was calculated was initially met with silence and delays. Finally, 54 days after the request, city officials responded with a one-page document that lays out some, but not all, of the details. Here's Stephanie Landrum, President and CEO of the Alexandria Economic Development Partnership.
Stephanie Landrum
The delay in providing us specific information about jobs is that information was never intended to be released at this level.
Michael Pope
She says part of the problem with disclosing information to the public is that the deal was still being negotiated in private.
Stephanie Landrum
We cannot release information while we're still negotiating. Frankly, that has been the major deciding factor in how and what we've released.
Michael Pope
So Stephanie Landrum says the prediction of 30,000 jobs is based on a solid analysis, even if the details behind how it was calculated are not available to the public.
Stephanie Landrum
It's not a normal part of what gets released to the public because it does include proprietary information. Frankly, it shows other businesses how we evaluate projects and will give them better information to come and negotiate with jurisdictions moving forward.
Lauren Burke
According to Heywood Sanders, a University of Texas Professor of Public Policy, the city has released little information so far. He believes the one-page document provided 54 days after the request for information is a red flag.
Heywood Sanders
It's a lovely-looking document. It is full of no substance whatsoever.
Lauren Burke
He says the one-page document produced 54 days after the request for information was a masterpiece and obfuscation.
Heywood Sanders
It either assumes that anybody who reads this is totally naive, or it's based on the assumption that the Governor of Virginia quoted 30,000 jobs some months ago as the product of this project. Somehow, finally, they had to come up with a document that got close to 30,000.
Michael Pope
So, for now, the arena proposal is in a holding pattern after the General Assembly failed to include it in its budget proposal. Now, the Governor could revive the issue with a budget amendment or a special session. However, it would likely face the same opposition unless Senator Louise Lucas drops her opposition. So, Lauren, I want to circle back around to this 30,000 jobs issue, which we've talked about many times in this podcast. And I wanna circle back around to it as I finally was able to talk to Stephanie Landrum. So you heard her sound bites there. You heard her side of the story, finally. I actually asked her for an interview back in January. So it took me two months. Two months to get this interview. So basically, she said, Look, we never intended to provide you this information. Anyway, it's proprietary. What do you make of that?
Lauren Burke
What I make of that is that they don't have their act together. They made a public announcement in December 2023 of all this information. Did they actually think that nobody was going to ask about the details? And here's the other thing, if, in fact, they didn't want to put that information out. The best they could have informed the elected officials involved in this project. Then, they could have told their constituents what was going on. They didn't do that. To me, it's malpractice to not talk to the media. Because you're not talking to the people who have to partner alongside you in this project. Moving forward with regard to funding, planning, and jobs, they should have known full well that the job number is the first thing that everyone is going to ask about. You can say it's proprietary, but for whatever reason, they don't have their act together with the details. And if you don't have your act together, then don't have the Governor get up and say 30,000 jobs. Which, by the way, is a permanent part of his talking points every time he brings up this arena project.
Michael Pope
It's been pretty thoroughly fact-checked on this podcast. And they continue to use this data point. The position we get from Stephanie Landrum is, trust us. We've done this analysis, and it's a solid analysis, but we're not gonna give you the details because it's proprietary. And this is a private negotiation. We can't share it publicly because it's private. Well, then, why are you seeking public money? Either we're having a public discussion about public financing, or we're having a public discussion about private finance. And you're not going to tell us the details? I think that's the point we've come to with this inquiry about the 30,000 jobs. We're at an impasse here because they're not going to tell us.
Lauren Burke
Monumental, or somebody in this production, has got to be the director. Somebody's got to tell people the basic details of what this project is. So, if it's not going to be Landrum and the Alexandria Economic Development Partnership. And it's not going to be monumental, and it hasn't been the Governor's office. Who is it going to be? Where are we to find these details? The elected officials should have been the first group that they had a meeting with. However, I found out from Speaker Scott and leader Surovell that there was no meeting. I think it was Speaker Scott who said there was no meeting with everyone in a room. I mean, what, are you kidding me? I find that to be surprising, deeply surprising. And then all of this deep breathing about, well, you've asked me too many times, and this was never meant to be public. Are you kidding me? I mean, maybe they haven't worked on a big project in a long time, I don't know. They bring the Alexandria Economic Development Partnership,
Michael Pope
Amazon, keep in mind these are the same people that landed the Amazon deal.
Lauren Burke
Right, so I don't know why everyone is acting surprised at these very basic questions. To me, the 30,000 jobs number was something they put out there. They should have been overly prepared to explain the details of that particular statistic. And once you get past the point where someone is requesting specific information, and not just the media, but apparently elected officials, were asking these questions and not getting specific answers. This happened in December, and now we're like three months later, somewhere over these three months. The answer should have been provided, but it hasn't been.
Michael Pope
For our listeners in Northern Virginia, tonight, Monday, March 25th. There is a panel discussion in Old Town Alexandria at 7pm at the Lyceum. It's going to feature former Vice Mayor Andrew McDonald. Dennis Coates, a professor of economics at the University of Maryland. Katie Waynick is president of the Delray Citizens Association, and Tom Copco is a board member at Cameron Stations Civic Association. So, if you are in Northern Virginia and want to hear more about both sides of this debate. Please come to the Agenda Alexandria panel discussion at the Lyceum at 7pm tonight, Monday, March 25th. Okay, moving on to our next story. Loaded like a freight train. How many people should be working on trains that come through Virginia? Democrats say trains should have at least a two-person crew, and they sent the Governor a bill that requires that. But the Governor is vetoing that bill. His veto message says the proposed regulations disrupt the ability of railroad companies to access new markets. Here's delicate Shelly Simonds, a Democrat from Newport News, who introduced the bill.
Shelly Simonds
The Governor did mention the importance of innovation in his veto statement. However, this industry seems to only use technology when it suits its business model. Every day, these trains come barreling through our towns and cities. And we have a right to know that they're using technology for our safety, not just for profit.
Lauren Burke
Ronnie Hobbs is Virginia State Director of the International Association of Sheet Metal, Air, Rail, and Transportation Workers, the union representing railroad workers.
Ronnie Hobbs
We have the opportunity to override a veto, and it simply requires two-thirds of the vote. So, I would definitely encourage all Senators and Delegates here to look past profit and look towards safety, to hear what your constituents say, and to do the right thing.
Michael Pope
He says to do the right thing, but overriding a veto takes a supermajority vote. And, Lauren, the bill we're talking about passed on a party-line vote. All the Democrats voted for it, and all the Republicans voted against it. When did railroad safety become a partisan issue?
Lauren Burke
I don't know that railroad safety is a partisan issue. I am a little curious as to why this conversation on this legislation was hatched? Did we have an accident involving a one-person railroad train operator recently? Is there some specific reason?
Michael Pope
Yeah, don't forget that huge derailment in Ohio.
Lauren Burke
Ohio is not the Commonwealth of Virginia. We do have a lot of train tracks and train activity in Virginia. And I'm not thinking to myself that this bill was urgent. I'm just honestly asking, is there some particular reason that there has to be two people and not one?
Michael Pope
Safety? Yeah, the issue here is the railroad companies, and you even heard the Governor in his veto message talk about innovation and technology. That's basically saying, well, we've got a computer system here that can make sure this train is safe. And we don't need to have two actual humans on the train. Shelley Simonds said, Well, it's not really a good idea to trust technology that much, and why don't we put two people on the train to make sure that we don't have the kind of derailment that we saw in East Palestine, Ohio?
Lauren Burke
Yeah, I'm not a train expert. But we have an electronic train in the US Capitol that takes US Senators, their staff, and all the tourists in the building back and forth. It is unmanned.
Michael Pope
That's a fun train. Yes, I've been on the one, and I know exactly the one you're talking about.
Lauren Burke
It's a cute little train. And every now and then, it will get stuck. Or there will be a little thing where everybody's trapped for two minutes. But that rarely happens; it's like an elevator type of thing where every now and again, an elevator glitches out, and everybody's trapped for half an hour. But that'll rarely happen. I think that the automated train in the US Capitol has been there for at least 20 years. Probably 15 years, obviously, it's not necessarily comparable to what Delegate Simond is talking about when we're talking about freight trains.
Michael Pope
Delegate Simond's concern was with toxic materials being transported on railroads. Your local railroad goes through your city, town, or county every day, carrying highly explosive, toxic materials. And if the train derails in your neck of the woods, you're going to see a toxic cloud over your house. That's what happened in East Palestine. Shelly Simond says not in Virginia, but Republicans and Governor Youngkin disagree.
Lauren Burke
Yeah, I know I'm gonna get calls from a few of my Democratic friends, but I'm an if it ain't broke, don't fix it type of person. We're not Ohio. We're in Virginia, and I can't think of the last time we had a train accident. The last one in this area that I can remember was in Washington, DC. There was a major train accident involved In the Washington Metro in Washington, DC. Again, I'm not saying I'm an expert on this. It's something I'd have to read up on. But I am just curious about what technology we have now. And we're talking about unmanned cars. I'm sure you saw the news last week that electric cars will be encouraged in the next few decades. However, unmanned cars are another topic of conversation that keeps coming up. So I wouldn't say we should have unmanned trains, given what they sometimes carry. But I'm not really excited about this particular veto. There are a lot of vetoes to get excited about, and this is not at the top of my list.
Michael Pope
Well, then, let's take a break. When we come back, we'll read your comments and play a round of trivia. All right, let's play a round of trivia. Last week, we asked what would happen if there was a tie for Governor. Believe it or not, the Virginia constitution actually has a provision that explains what should happen if the vote is tied.
Lauren Burke
Zach Lincoln suggested the winner be drawn out of a fishbowl. Sorry, Zach.
Michael Pope
Shawn Weneta suggested film canisters, which, of course, were used in the 2018 House election, which was tied between David Yancey and Shelly Simonds.
Lauren Burke
Were their names pulled out of a film canister or pulled out of a bowl?
Michael Pope
Yeah, their names were put in a film canister, and the film canisters were put in the bowl. And so they reached in to randomly select the name from the film canister that was in the bowl. It seems like something out of a movie, but yes, it actually happened.
Lauren Burke
It did actually happen. So Shawn Weneta, you're on solid ground with that guest, but no, that's not how it's described in the Constitution.
Michael Pope
The correct answer is that if the vote is tied, the General Assembly will choose the Governor, and we have some winners.
Lauren Burke
Jamie Lockhart and Andrew Millin are our winners this week.
Michael Pope
Yeah, we'll make sure you get all the cryptocurrency coming to you from winning the contest.
Lauren Burke
What's our next trivia question for this week?
Michael Pope
All right. Here's our trivia question for this week: Which Virginia Mayor worked with a US attorney named James Comey back in the 1990s on an initiative called Project Exile, which shifted gun crimes to federal court, where defendants faced harsher sentences?
Lauren Burke
If you think you know the answer, hit us up on social media, you could win a prize.
Michael Pope
Let's head over to the water cooler. Lauren, what's the latest you're hearing around the watercooler?
Lauren Burke
I want to talk about Operation Ceasefire. Last week in Norfolk, March 20th, Speaker Don Scott and Attorney General Jason Miyares both were at a press conference with a ton of law enforcement officials announcing a reduction in crime across the board in many of Virginia's cities. This is a really good announcement and a positive thing to say about a subject that comes up a lot in our politics: crime policy, violent crime, to be specific. The biggest reduction was in Hopewell, but Norfolk, Lynchburg, Petersburg, Portsmouth, and Chesapeake all had reductions in crime. Operation Ceasefire has been going on for a few years now. And it was good to see the bipartisanship here. Certainly, when it comes to justice, reform issues, and crime issues, they have all become extremely partisan. And as we saw in 2023, a lot of those crime issues were used in a ton of political ads by Republicans against Democrats. Usually talking about violent crime. And this really sort of goes back to the Southern strategy, to the days of Nixon. When Roger Ailes worked for Nixon, they really used the crime policy not only as a policy but as a racial wedge as well. It is so good to see the bipartisanship, and I thought I would bring that up for the water cooler because it is a rare thing. It is a rare thing to see.
Michael Pope
As a theme of the Speakership of Don Scott, he frequently extends the olive branch and says, Hey, Republicans; we might disagree on abortion, we might disagree on guns, but here's something we could work together on.
Lauren Burke
Absolutely. And I think it's a good thing to select to work together because there's really no reason for it to be partisan one way or the other. The violent crime rates have been down across the country. Still, unfortunately, it's true Republicans love to use this issue as a way to scare suburban housewives. That's really just what they do with it in all of their ads. It's been happening more and more with each election cycle. Certainly, it filters down from the national level and is really seen in a lot of these ads in a way that's very pronounced. But again, to keep it positive here, this was a moment of bipartisanship. And it was good news. And we'll see what happens next. The Governor is getting close to setting the veto record. You know, that press conference with the Speaker and AG happens, right, as the Governor is making all these veto announcements. So it's sort of a break from that. And it's a nice bipartisan thing to see. What about you, Michael, what do you got for the water cooler?
Michael Pope
I want to talk about crisis communications. And I want to pick your brain, Lauren, because you are one of the world's experts on crisis communications. So I'm curious about the strategy of silence, not responding to questions, not responding to emails, not responding to phone calls, especially when you've made a commitment. So, way back in January, I talked to Stephanie Landrum of the Alexandria Economic Development Partnership. I made the inquiry about 30,000 jobs, and then she just failed to respond to calls and emails. I actually had to get the mayor involved to get her response through the city to get the one-page document. Alright, so two months of not returning phone calls, not returning emails, just silence when she told me that she would be answering the inquiry, and then she didn't. I also had to get the mayor involved to get the one-page document. So that's Stephanie Landrum's silence with ADP. Then, on the city side, I talked to Ebony Fleming about this one-page document. I wanted to ask a pretty simple question: When was this document created? Because the one-page document they finally shared with me after 54 days did not have a date on it. And we don't know when that document was produced. I was curious about my timeline when this one-page document was produced. She said she would get back to me, but she didn't. And then she stopped responding to emails. I had to get the city manager involved to have her respond. Then Monica Dixon of Monumental said that she would come to Pod Virginia. At the last possible minute, she canceled on us. I'm baffled by this strategy. Monumental is one thing; let's take them off the table. The city government just did not respond, saying that they would get back to me with stuff, and then just failed to respond to subsequent emails. What's with the silence? Lauren Burke, obviously, these people are in crisis. Does silence work as a crisis comms strategy?
Lauren Burke
It highly depends on exactly what type of situation we're dealing with. Actually, as crises go, I don't see this as a crisis. It's a problem, but it's not an immediate crisis where you have a news organization on the phone saying, we're going to press the button, and 30 minutes from now, something is going to break your reputation or something like that. It's just an ongoing sort of rolling issue with regard to the 30,000 jobs questions. But it really depends on what we're talking about. In the old school crisis comms, what I call the whims and common attitude prevailed, which is that if you didn't respond, that didn't give fuel to the story. That doesn't work in a 24-hour news cycle. Newspapers, as the dominant platform, are gone and have been gone for about 15 years. But that did work when we had the fax machine. And, it was literally you had literally 24 hours to deal with something. Now, we effectively have no news cycle whatsoever. Because the news is continuous on social media. The news producers can be anybody. A person on the street with a cell phone or a person who is a dedicated reporter getting paid at the Washington Post could be anybody. But I do think that certainly a government actor, in this case, the city of Alexandria, has more responsibility for your questions and should be way more reactive than anybody else. It really should never be complete silence. But I will say, as somebody who's been in journalism and politics and has seen both sides of these situations, A lot of times as a journalist, if you put too much pressure on people, they get scared, lockdown, and go silent. When I used to work at ABC News, if I called somebody from ABC News, everybody just would get scared. Even though it wasn't a phone call. It was some sort of Inquisition; it would just be a basic question. So I think it's important as a journalist to let people know that you're not about to blow them up. And I'm totally down with not coming at it with this sort of scary adversarial thing because I do think that there is some logic for our elected officials. They do owe the public answers, and I'm totally down with that. But we live in a world where somebody hitting the like button on Twitter can blow up their reputation in literally 30 minutes.
Michael Pope
A couple of things to keep in mind here. One is that we're talking about economic data about 30,000 jobs. This is a totally legit inquiry here. And that's part of this. Another part of this that is worth thinking about is that they told me that they would get back to me with information and then failed to respond to subsequent emails. So it'd be one thing if I just asked a question, and they ignored the question. I had telephone conversations and email conversations with them. And they said, Yeah, we'll get back to you on that. And then they just stopped responding to emails.
Lauren Burke
I think it's important to develop an off-the-record strategy with something like that. These people are clearly scared of something like they know they're getting rolled by Senator Lucas, and they can see what's going on. We can see what's happening. And she's winning the communications game because she is playing in the present-day world of communications. State Senator and Finance Chair Louise Lucas is playing the current way, the way you have to play. Which is sort of a constant communication that lets people know how you feel about something. They're not really reacting in kind, and they're getting rolled. They've been rolled the entire time. And they have the information. So, it doesn't make any sense. But the first mistake they made was really not designating a quarterback of the communications, which could've been Monumental. It could've been the Governor's office; it could've been the city of Alexandria.
Michael Pope
Wait a second. We don't know that they didn't designate a quarterback. Maybe they do have a quarterback, and that person has never talked to you or me. I'm saying they may have a quarterback, and their quarterback is hidden.
Lauren Burke
Well, I sense that there was no quarterback because we can never get any answers from any of the three entities involved. So I'm sensing no quarterback; I'm sensing there's a center that is starting to snap the ball to nobody.
Michael Pope
I have a suspicion about that. My suspicion is that Monumental is the force telling the city Oh, you can't really release this information. And Monumental is telling ADP you can't really release this information. So, silence, foot-dragging, and stonewalling are really dictated by this corporate interest that wants government money.
Lauren Burke
Well, right. But I think if Ted Leonsis and Monumental, or Ted Leonsis, his son, were the quarterback, I think that would have been made clear to us. The reporting in the Washington Post apparently alleged Monumental was told by the Governor's office not to communicate with the General Assembly. That's problematic. That, right there, is why I'm asking, Okay, well, who's really in charge of telling the public or the media the details of this project is. I find corporate entities typically are completely locked down. But sometimes they're not. However, the government is different; the city of Alexandria should be the most responsive group in that three-pronged story.
Michael Pope
I give a failing grade for transparency.
Lauren Burke
Yeah, it's that's problematic. Obviously, it's the public's money, and their job is, in fact, to serve the public, which is a little bit different. Obviously, Monumental is a corporate entity. A lot of times, I am not surprised, not pissed, and I don't take it personally when elected officials lockdown. Because there's a very good reason to lock down. The reason is that Section 230 protects these social media platforms from defamation. And if you're an elected official, I don't care what anybody says; an elected official has absolutely no protection under the law against defamation. You have no protection. If you're an elected official, and somebody prints something defamatory. It gets published, you can sue all you want, but you're going to lose. You're not going to meet the malice standard, the Time's Sullivan standard; it's not going to happen. I don't care what anyone says; I know there's all these theories about, oh, you can sue, and you can do this, and you can do that. But the reality is that a reporter who reports inaccurate information and blows somebody up is not going to suffer. They're not going to be punished. And everyone knows that. That's the backstory of what you're dealing with. You're asking a simple, basic question that should have been answered three months ago about something they announced publicly in December of 2023. With regard to jobs, it is the number one most important issue for everybody, including elected officials, constituents, and everyone else. And they still do not have an answer. So, I agree with you; there should have been an answer. But I totally understand when elected officials get very weary of the media in this age. Where the media is in a freefall. The business model for the media is in freefall. When it gets into freefall, people get desperate for click traffic.
Michael Pope
Good luck, and just to be clear here, it's not the electeds. I talked to Adam Ebbin about this, Scott Surovell about this, and Alfonso Lopez. Members of the Alexandria Delegation are more than willing to talk about their thoughts and feelings. It was the government officials here, the Alexandria Economic Development Partnership, and the city's communications director. They're the ones who are stonewalling.
Lauren Burke
But those people read the paper just like everybody else. They see the general disposition of the media, which is quite aggressive. And all I'm saying is it's quite aggressive often because of the business model. The way that media organizations make money is through web traffic. And that is predicated often on scandal. So I'm just saying that it's hard for people to understand who is in the media and what it is to be on the other side of it. And I'm just saying, somebody who's been on the other side of it for a member of Congress and Lieutenant Governor of Virginia, and political candidates, it's easy for the media to say, oh, trust us, and I just want some information. But the media blows people up. And it happens very fast. And I just say that you need to keep that in mind. But you do have to answer to the bad media that does dumb things. The honest reporter trying to get basic facts has to pay the price for stupid reporting. The Daily Mail and these sort of clickbait factories that want to blow people up every day. So, I can understand some of the confusion, even though I don't personally like it. But I try to get people on sort of the footing, just saying it at the front of the conversation; look just in the background, what's going on here? What's going on here with the 30,000? I'm not going to report anything yet. I just want to know what is going on. Do you not have the answer? Should I just stop asking? Should I wait? Or do you just not know? Sometimes, the people you're talking to just don't know. Sometimes, what happens is you're talking to somebody on the lower end of the totem pole. And the Ted Leonsis of the world haven't shared the information. I'm not saying that's the case; I don't know that in this case. But I'm saying I've seen that happen. So I think that's probably the issue.
Michael Pope
You just said something really significant, which is like having a conversation in the background. Worth noting for our listeners that having a conversation on background is something you do with people that you already have an established relationship with. You don't talk to a complete stranger in the background; that would be a very bad idea. And I'll tell you a story, an anecdote about this. A few years ago, I was working on a story about private prisons in Virginia. There's one private prison in Virginia; it was operated by a very shady organization called the GEO Group. So I reached out to the GEO Group for an on-the-record comment, and I got a call from someone I've never met before who worked for the GEO Group, who said, Hey, can we talk off the record? And I said, No, we're not going to talk to you. I'm not going to talk to you off the record; I want to record the conversation. He pushed back and said, Well, you don't want to really know what's going on. And I said, Of course, I want to know what's going on. And I want it on the record; I will not be speaking to you off the record, I will not be speaking to you on background, I don't know you, I don't have a relationship with you. So, the first words out of your mouth will probably be a lie. I didn't tell him that. But I mean, I know that because of decades of doing this job. So, there was one opportunity for the media to speak to the consultant about the background. And I said, I will not be speaking to you on background; I want an on-the-record conversation. If you're going to explain to me the 30,000 jobs, it's going to be on the record; it's not going to be on background. I don't have a relationship with these consultants. I'm only having an on-the-record conversation with them. They referred my questions to the Alexandria Economic Development Partnership, which, to her credit, Landrum definitely finally did speak with me two months after my request. The funny thing is she could have had that conversation initially. Why did she wait two months to have that conversation? Is the same thing with the communications director for the city of Alexandria? It's a pretty simple question. When was this one-page document created? She could have answered that question easily the day I asked it instead of dragging it out and having me get the city manager involved in answering the question. So it's the silence. It's the silence that's concerning to me. And I'm not sure that this is a very successful crisis comms strategy.
Lauren Burke
Well, I don't know. I think Landrum may have known the answer and was probably afraid to tell you. If I were Landrum, and I didn't know the answer, I would have told you. Can I talk to you off the record?
J. Miles Coleman
Landrum has a different story because I've known her for more than a decade. I would have talked to Landrum off the record or on the record just to get a sense of what's going on, but I'm certainly not talking to the consultant on the record.
Lauren Burke
As I was saying before about the way the media currently operates, if someone calls you on the phone and says, We need to be on the record, then that means everything you say after that sentence can be used for public consumption. So, knowing that and sensing that I would lock down if I was the comms person. Because I know you're going to report every little thing I'm saying. And we're not going to have a human-to-human conversation that sometimes requires a little bit of leeway when it comes to on-the-record and off-the-record conversations. But again, it depends on what we're talking about; when we're talking about 30,000 jobs for a $1.5 billion arena project, that really shouldn't be off the record. We had an elected official stand on a stage and announce that publicly. So we're not talking about some big emerging scandal. Your point is well taken with regard to the lack of response, particularly from the city of Alexandria.
Michael Pope
Let's open up that Pod Virginia mailbag. Lauren, what are our listeners talking about?
Lauren Burke
Brian Devine heard our discussion of the Governor's comments about the budget and posted this; Youngkin calling toll relief a pet project means he hasn't learned his lesson and working with L Louise Lucas.
Michael Pope
Yeah, I think Brian Devine might be onto something. Lauren, I'd love to get your thoughts on the Governor saying Louise Lucas wants a pot shop on every street corner and a slot machine in every 7/11. Is he going to get what he wants out of Louis Lucas by trash-talking her on the Washington Post that way?
Lauren Burke
Yeah, that would be a big no. I think the two of them really have to sit down and talk with each other in the interest of the Commonwealth of Virginia.
Michael Pope
We also heard from Delegate Amy Laufer, who heard our interview with Speaker Don Scott and posted this. We are proud of our Speaker, Don Scott. He gave a great recap of the session, finishing on time and with a bipartisan budget.
Lauren Burke
Steven Vervier heard our discussion of the Alexandria arena and posted this. It was a great episode. As Greg Leroy said, in the end, if the arena was dead, there would be a chance to talk about alternatives. I suspect there are ideas better suited to the site than this arena. Let's talk them through and see which one best suits Alexandrians.
Michael Pope
We also heard from Cameron Thompson at CBS 6 in Richmond, who congratulated us for winning our trivia contest last week. But he wondered if members of the Virginia Capital Correspondents Association perhaps had an unethical advantage; I would say no. I mean, if you know the answer to the trivia question, then you know the answer to the trivia question. It's open to everyone. We thank everyone for playing. Alright, let's celebrate birthdays. This week, we are starting out with our own Lauren Burke! Happy birthday today, Monday, March 25th. So I hope you have a wonderful birthday.
Lauren Burke
Oh, absolutely. Well, thank you very much. Thursday, March 28th, is the birthday of Secretary of Labor Bryan Slater.
Michael Pope
Saturday, March 30th, is the birthday of Congressman Gerry Conley. So, happy birthday all around.
Lauren Burke
That's it for this episode of Pod Virginia.
