What Were the Most Popular Episodes of 2021?
The team took a look back at their top-10 most downloaded episodes from 2021 and reflected back on some of the key moments.
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Michael Pope
I'm Michael Pope.
Thomas Bowman
And I'm Thomas Bowman.
Michael Pope
And this is Transition Virginia, the podcast that examines the ongoing transition of power in Virginia politics.
Thomas Bowman
This week, we're gonna take a look back at 2021. And it's been quite the year.
Michael Pope
Yes, it has. This year has seen our little podcast on Virginia politics take a huge leap, in terms of the number of people who listen to the show, as well as the number of our listeners who help us pay the bills by being patrons.
Thomas Bowman
Yes, and we've done some really amazing shows this year. So we thought it might be a good idea to take a look back at the year that was.
Michael Pope
So with that in mind, we've done some digging into our stats to figure out which of our shows from this year have been the most popular.
Thomas Bowman
So here it is, our top 10 most popular Transition Virginia podcasts of 2021.
Michael Pope
Okay, this is gonna be really exciting. I mean, this is kind of like a cross between the David Letterman Top 10 List and the Casey Caisson Countdown. Okay, so coming in at number 10. Our episode from way back in January, "Diving Into the Weeds on Marijuana Policy: A Joint Effort." Thomas Bowman, great title. Thank you for coming up with that, one of my favorite titles. We were joined by Jenn Michelle Pedini of Virginia Normal.
Jenn Michelle Pedini
Not only do we have Altria in our backyard, but we have the burgeoning cannabis industry that will be knocking at Virginia's doors.
Michael Pope
We were also joined by the Director of Public Policy for Columbia Care, Ngiste Abebe.
Ngiste Abebe
Jim Crow, and so many things baked into our Constitution, and then into our laws, have been about finding any possible proxy to continue to subjugate non white folks through the law. And if we're going to seriously look at how we dismantle the legacy of Jim Crow, dismantle the legacy of slavery inside of Virginia, we absolutely should be fighting for automatic expungement.
Michael Pope
So Thomas, this is one of my favorite episodes. I feel like I'm gonna say that a lot this episode, but it's true. This particular one I really liked, because it was an ongoing policy discussion that had a lot of angles to it. And we did it while the General Assembly was in the midst of debating all this stuff. And it wasn't just as simple as legalize or don't legalize, it was, okay, so once you've legalized, how do you sell it? Who gets the licenses? Then there are, you know, how many licenses are going to be available in a certain region? Are people who have been disproportionately harmed by the War on Drugs going to be benefited by getting the license? Where does the money go? Who regulates it? Is it ABC, or is it a new agency? There are so many questions. And this this episode actually was able to do a deep dive into the policy debate and figure out, sort of, what they were debating and and what the possible outcomes might be.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, and with the election going the way it went in November, I think a lot of their plans are kind of out the window. There was, and still is, a desire to speed up the timeline for legalization and for retail establishments. And this is the single most bipartisan policy that Virginia elected officials could propose. However, I think some of the equity things that the fine tuning that Democrats had hoped to make, are probably out the window. And hello, big business.
Michael Pope
You know, you're right to point out the election, and the influence the election is going to have on marijuana policy. A couple things about that. One is, you'll recall, there was this other debate, separate debate, about whether or not to make legalization immediate or wait until you could stand up the market. And they just barely got through the actual legalization. So today, as of this hour, marijuana is legal in Virginia, thanks to that debate, despite the fact it was, you know, you can't- the market doesn't exist yet.
Thomas Bowman
Right.
Michael Pope
So you know, Republicans, when they come into power, they could make marijuana illegal again...that actually seems unlikely, to me. Then there's this other part where there's the Reenactment Clause on all the regulatory stuff. So standing up the market, how did the licenses work? How did the social equity part of the licensing, how does that work? Who regulates it, standing of this new agency? All of that has a Reenactment Clause, and that actually does seem unlikely that Republicans would just say, "Okay, all the things that Democrats did when they were in power, we're gonna put our stamp of approval on that." Thomas, what do you get the sense of where this is headed in terms of, "Okay, so this is legal, but there's no market and there's no licenses?" Is the General Assembly going to create a market and a regulatory agency and licenses, or are they just going to leave us in this gray area where it's legal, but you can't buy it?
Thomas Bowman
Well, the best thing, policy wise, would be to create a separate ABC just for cannabis. And the reason for that is the requirements to sell cannabis, the expertise you need, as the retailer, as the at the point of sale, is far greater than the expertise you need to just ring up a bottle of rum or vodka for the customer in front of you. In especially the medical side, there could be a lot of quacks and fraudsters. And what you don't want is for somebody to sell you something that does the opposite of what you want. Because this is actually a very diverse space. I don't know if you've dabbled any, Michael, but if you have dabbled, you might know that some marijuana strains will energize you, and give you more of a head rush, and other strains will give you, what we think of, as couch lock. And those are two extremes of the same coin, where there's tons of different cannabinoids that give you different kinds of medical, like actually medical effects. And so you want an expert at the point of sale, who can do a, you know, play a 20 Questions game, potentially, with somebody who may not be there for specifically medical reasons, but they've got something that they're looking for. And so you need a well educated retail establishment. The other thing cannabis requires that is very different from ABC is the entire medical aspect, the legitimate medical aspect, and you're going to have a lot of opportunity for industry takeover, or industry capture of that agency. And I wouldn't be surprised if Altria's game plan is, "No no, no you guys do whatever you want to do. Set it up, however you want to set it up." Because they're going to come in, once the federal government legalizes it, because they've got millions of acres of pot farms out in California, they've got Canadian distributors, and packaging, and, you know, manufacturing, marijuana companies, products. And of course, they've got their assembly lines in China. So I would not be opposed, personally, this is just me, I would not be opposed, personally, to creating an opportunity for those old cigarette companies to come in and make marijuana cigarettes, but only if, if and only if, it were a one for one trade on the cigarette side of their business, just to give them a different way to make money that didn't kill their users.
Michael Pope
So you mentioned the need for a new regulatory agency that's not at the alcohol, you know, control board. And that was actually one of the very first policy decisions they made in this debate is not going with VABC, and creating a new regulatory agency. All of that, of course, is dependent on the Reenactment Clause. So you know, the, I guess, the lawmakers will be debating this, again. Do you have a sense of what Republicans, I mean, do you think that they want to go with VABC, or create a new independent regulatory agency for this stuff or, or not do any of this?
Thomas Bowman
The reality is the easiest bill is just to legalize it, and it would become a free for all. But that's also probably not a wise thing to do. You've got some other issues that do require some thinking through like, frankly, the best way to bank the revenues from marijuana, is through a state bank, or a community bank, because any bank that does interstate commerce, can't touch the marijuana industry right now, because it would be considered money laundering. So there's a lot of challenges, you need a majority vote to create a new agency, but you also need a lot of money to create a new agency. So it's not just the cannabis agency, you need a Bank of Virginia basically, which is what North Dakota has. And there's also, like, cannabis, or digital asset banks that you could back end into it, and there's or there's some kind of like, bond swap, you might, potentially, be able to do, but it's not an easy question to answer. Even when the Democrats are in charge, I have no clue the direction they would want to take it. And so with the Republicans in charge, I don't think they really know either, they didn't like all of the, they felt unnecessary, complications that the Democrats were putting in, and they're gonna want to take a look at some of those. And, you know, from the consumer point of view, it's probably going to be better, but from, you know, the equity point of view, I don't think that's a very big concern of theirs. So, you know, I don't know if we're gonna like the product better or not.
Michael Pope
Well, maybe we will end up doing another episode on this and it might be one of our most listened to episodes of 2022. Okay, so, coming in at number nine is our show from June on, "The Urban Rural Divide in Virginia with John Provo at Virginia Tech."
John Provo
I'm surprised we don't see more coalition's between central city communities with poverty challenges in rural areas.
Michael Pope
So John Provo was on the show in June, he was plugging a book called, "Vibrant Virginia," which is out now. And full disclosure, I wanted to do this episode because I was also moderating a panel of authors, so that every chapter in, "Vibrant Virginia," has a different author or set of authors. And so there were- every chapter had a different topic. So there's like a chapter on broadband expansion, and a chapter on economic development. And there's a chapter on public art, and the chapter on inter jurisdictional conflict.
Thomas Bowman
Sounds riveting.
Michael Pope
It is. I mean, this is a Virginia Tech book, right? So this is actually aimed at academics and eggheads. And it actually is very riveting from that perspective. And if you think about the urban rural divide, it's so interesting in Virginia, because it touches on everything. I remember, sort of preparing for that panel discussion, I went back into all of my scripts over the last few years. And I just did like a word search for, "urban," and, "rural," to figure out like, what context if I talked about the urban rural divide. And perhaps unsurprisingly, it came up in so many contexts, like with the economy, with prisons, with gerrymandering, with elections, with religion, with demographics. I mean, the urban rural divide is just so ever present in Virginia politics, and life in Virginia, that it is worth taking a look at the- this urban rural divide, and what it means, and what we can learn from it.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, and I'm very surprised that Terry McAuliffe didn't make this a chief part of his campaign plan. Going into all the small towns in Virginia, and touting a small town Revitalization Act, or something that just dumps money into them. Because it's not just the infrastructure you need for broadband, which is, yes, incredibly important. But also, each town, for example, is going to need a data center, the same way that it needed a library. Each town is going to need renewable energy infrastructure, in the same way that, you know, the cities do. And what's interesting is that the small cities in Virginia, are actually far greater than big cities. So there's lots of like 10, 20, 30,000 population cities, like Norton comes to mind, out in Southwest Virginia, where if you dump money into this, and make it a community hub for the rural areas surrounding it, all of the people who want to leave the cities because of COVID, or high rents, have somewhere attractive to go.
Michael Pope
You mentioned every small town across rural Virginia is going to need a data center, just like it needs a library, I'm reminded of a different episode we did in 2021, with Dwayne Yancey of Cardinal News, where he had actually had to do the episode from the parking lot of his local library, because the lack of broadband access out where he lives. So I mean, you know, clearly this is a huge issue across rural Virginia, and you bring up Terry McAuliffe, I remember some Democrats after the election, grousing that his whole campaign strategy was just aimed at the population centers in Northern Virginia, and he didn't really do enough time thinking about the rest of Virginia. And you know, maybe he might have won if he had.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, it's really easy after a loss to point your finger at everybody. And there's plenty of that to go around. But this is one criticism that I genuinely believe is valid, the belief that a Democrat can win a campaign just by running in Northern Virginia, and other urban areas like Richmond, and sometimes Hampton Roads, is now a dead theory. Let's bury it and let's move on, and Virginian elected officials, you cannot win just off the votes of Northern Virginia, because the Democratic Party is supposed to be the party of the little guy. And the Northern Virginia suburbs are not where the little guy lives. So if you want to represent the working class, the little guy, you know, the economically disadvantaged, well, the suburbanites are only going to be fairweather allies. And I say that with love.
Michael Pope
Okay, well, coming in at number eight, our friend Chaz Nuttcombe, with one of our most controversial episodes of the year, an episode we did back in April on House incumbent Democrats who are being challenged in the primary.
Chaz Nuttycombe
Do not rule this one out for an upset.
Michael Pope
So Thomas, if you'll recall, there were a number of Democrat House incumbents, who lost in that primary. Steve Heretic, Ibraheem Samirah, Lee Carter, Mark Levine, and this episode took place before the primary, and we walk through district by district, each of the House Democrats who are being challenged, and what those elections look like. And it was a fascinating episode, it got a lot of listeners, we dropped a lot of names in that episode, which is perhaps why we got so many listeners. It was also one of the most controversial, because we got some pushback on some of the things that Chaz Nuttycombe said in the episode. And so yeah, in retrospect, what do you what do you make of that episode, Thomas?
Thomas Bowman
Well, I think that, not only did we call the vast majority of the people who would lose in the primaries, but it also was a nice preview of the people who lost the general elections, too. If you were paying attention at where the trends were, some very interesting things happened. And so election predictions are always a tough game, and they're a dangerous game to play. But these are fun episodes. Right? It's why we do it.
Michael Pope
You know, I have to say, the speculation is kind of fun, but I think there's also, you know, that's sort of the sugar and sweets part of it. But there's also kind of a meat and potatoes and eat your vegetables kind of stuff. Because we walk through the the players, and the candidates, and the districts, and the background, the context of what's been going on in those districts. And the dynamics, you know, I mean, if you think about the ones who lost here, Samirah, Carter, Levine, they were, you know, not beloved members of the Caucus, shall we say? And they, I mean, they were kind of like the the loud mouth Caucus, I guess, is one way of looking at it. And so it was interesting from that perspective, because there was a theme to the House incumbents who lost right?
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, I guess. I don't know that it all falls into that box. Lee Carter did not want his campaign knocking doors due to the pandemic. And, you know, I think that, between that, and the hundreds of death threats that he was getting daily, probably played a role in him not really wanting to win reelection. But with Mark Levine and Ibraheem Samirah, that's definitely the loudmouth Caucus going down that nobody really liked. And then Heretic was a self own, because he came out as a financial predator, in one of the most impoverished districts in Hampton Roads, in Portsmouth. So, I mean, good riddance?
Michael Pope
Well, coming in at number seven, our episode from July on the Clean Economy Act, where we drilled down, in painstaking detail, on how this law works and what it means. We were joined by Senator Jennifer McClellan.
Jennifer McClellan
When we passed the Clean Economy Act, I literally wanted to jump out of my chair and shout, "The Eagle has landed." Because this bill is going to be as transformative, in Virginia, as landing on the Moon was in 1969.
Michael Pope
And we were also joined by Harry Godfrey of Virginia Advanced Energy Economy.
Harry Godfrey
Once you build a solar farm, once you build a wind farm, the cost of that power does not change, because there's no fuel risk.
Michael Pope
So once again, this was one of my favorite episodes. I'm gonna say that probably several times. But the reason I really liked this episode is because it took this kind of long form thing that we do with the podcast, this was like a podcast that was one of our longest podcasts, actually, might be our longest podcast, because we really get into detail about how this thing works. There's the 2050 deadline for, you know, getting rid of fossil fuels. How does that work? You know, what does the transition look like? What does the labor market look like for solar farms and wind farms? Does this increase the cost of energy or decrease the cost of energy in the long term? Like this is...we gotten into some really serious issues here with this law and how it works. And I think this was really an interesting and enlightening episode from that perspective.
Thomas Bowman
Oh, yeah. And it was refreshing to hear from Senator Jennifer McClellan, and humbling, really, I felt humbled to have her on our show. And the reality is, if you are interested in the weeds, in policy weeds, which I think a lot of, I think you might be, then go back and listen to this episode, because you're getting the patron herself, telling you exactly what's in this bill, as well as the Virginia Advanced Energy Economy organization, which represents not just the industry, but also like manufacturers and consumers, people who want renewable energy, people who traditionally did not want renewable energy. So they're kind of a, they're an interesting stakeholder because of that, and I highly recommend that one. And also, McClellan was coming off of her bid to run for governor. And it really made me think, "Oh man, what might have been?"
Michael Pope
Yeah, you really have to wonder what the general election would have looked like if it were Jennifer McClellan versus Glenn Youngkin. And that's an impossible, sort of, scenario to envision, of course, but it's worth thinking about what that, how that campaign might have looked differently. And the outcome, of course, might have been different. But this episode is also interesting in a way that's similar to the marijuana discussion that we had earlier this episode, which is, now that Republicans are going to be in charge, are they going to be winding this stuff back? I mean, in 2022, are we going to see the new General Assembly Republican majority, undo some of this stuff from the Clean Economy Act? Are we gonna see new Governor Youngkin undo some of this stuff from the Clean Economy Act? I mean, this episode, like the marijuana episode, actually, is, has long lasting importance because of the environment that we're now in. Right?
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, I don't genuinely get the sense that anybody wants to touch it. I think the House will have, you know, whatever its bill is gonna be in 2022. And the Senate is gonna say, "No, thank you." And the, and the Democratic leadership in the Senate is going to kill this one in committee, if it even gets that far. Because the reality is, this is a really complex bill. It's not good business policy. So if you're, I mean, if you're in that energy industry, you do not want the laws changing year in and year out, and flip flopping back and forth, because it creates an unstable business climate. And I think if that message pervades in the General Assembly, then you might have some Republicans willing to back off, because, you know, it's, it's a decent bill, it's... everybody was happy coming out of that session, as far as negotiation goes. There's some people who felt it didn't go far enough. And, you know, valid. The climate is the most important thing we have facing us right now. And at least this is something, and you got to walk before you can run. And this was definitely a great, not just a step, but a leap forward.
Michael Pope
Well, coming in at number six, our Election Preview from late October, we were joined by Sean Perryman.
Sean Perryman
How strong is that blue wall in Northern Virginia?
Michael Pope
Not strong enough, apparently. We were also joined by Mike Allers.
Mike Allers
As a Republican, we smell blood right now.
Michael Pope
They definitely smelled a lot of blood, Thomas, and this was a discussion, was a fun discussion, right before the election, and you kind of got the vibe, the sense, that that McAuliffe did not have a lock on things, that the Republicans had momentum at their back. And it was, I mean, the point of the episode was not to make predictions, but you kind of did get a sense of where things might be headed, if you listen to that episode.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah. Sean Perryman is definitely somebody that Virginia Politico's need to listen to. He is incredibly smart. He was right. He was the most accurate prognosticator we had on Transition Virginia, regarding election outcomes. And he predicted that whichever party won the governorship, would also win Lieutenant Governor, and Attorney General. I don't think he thought it was going for the Republicans. But he was technically correct. And technically correct is the best kind of correct.
Michael Pope
Yes, if you'll recall that episode, Mike Allers also had a prediction, which turned out to be incorrect, which is that he predicted that Youngkin was going to win the top slot, and the Democrats are going to take the LG in the AG race, which, not have been unprecedented. There have been times, in even in recent Virginia history, where all the statewides don't go in the same direction. I think 2005 being the most recent one. So like, yes, there are recent examples of that happening. But clearly, that's not what happened. And Sean Perryman kind of nailed it in his prediction there. But the episode also was really interesting, because we kind of walked through the, the totality of the campaign, and all the things that had happened, and how, you know, the discussion of race had permeated, and how education had sort of taken over. And so yeah, I think it- when the election rolled around, if you listen to that episode, you kind of had a grasp on sort of why things were happening and, and the direction that things might be heading in.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, another one that's worth going back and listening to if you're somebody looking for, "Why did we get this outcome," if if you want to ruminate on election outcomes, go back and listen to that episode. Okay, Michael, let's take a break. I need more coffee. So when we come back, we're going to start with our fifth most popular episode of 2021, and count all the way down to our most popular episode of 2021.
Michael Pope
And we're back on Transition Virginia, we're talking about our most popular episodes of 2021. And we're halfway through the countdown. Now coming in at number five, our crossover episode with Bold Dominion, examining what happened on election night? We were joined by the Bold Dominion team, including Nathan Moore.
Nathan Moore
If you can make white people in America feel aggrieved, or afraid, or stressed out, they're gonna choose a right winger.
Michael Pope
Now, Thomas, this episode was done right after the election, feelings were still raw, emotions were still high. I know I hadn't really received a lot of sleep, I was operating on coffee and fumes. But we put together one hell of an episode that went through the election results and figured out what they meant and how we should think about them.
Thomas Bowman
Right. And this episode got very high praise from Virginia Politico's because they felt it was the most accurate takes, or best takes, on what happened in the election. We were not overly critical of any of the candidates. It was far more analytical in what our conclusions were. And I'm very proud of this episode. And I think it's, again, if you're somebody who is still ruminating on what happened and why, go back and listen to that episode.
Michael Pope
You know, I was able to do something kind of fun with that episode, too. In the middle of it, I stuck in this feature that I put together, called, "the Blame Game," where I took all this audio that I collected on election night. So I was at the the event in Northern Virginia, the the loser event, the was supposed to be the McAuliffe victory party, which ended up being the McAuliffe, you know, loser party, I guess. And so I talked to like Congressman Connolly, and Brian Moran, and Kay Corey, and a bunch of people. And I was, of course, on the radio, only able to use a very small sliver of that. But so for the episode, I took these longer clips of the back and forth that I had with with these individuals to get a sense of, kind of, what they were thinking in the moment. And so it was fun to actually use a lot of this audio that I would have otherwise just thrown away. Alright, coming in at number four, our episode from May when we talked about the Democratic primary for Governor, we were joined by Graham Moomaw of Virginia Mercury.
Graham Moomaw
If you're not landing shots on McAuliffe, and not taking him down a peg, like I really don't think it moves the needle that much.
Michael Pope
We were also joined by longtime friend of the show Trevor Southerland.
Trevor Southerland
I wonder how much of this is turned into a proxy for 2025?
Michael Pope
So, Thomas, how would you answer Trevor Southerland there? How much of the Democratic primary, I mean, at that point, in the Democratic primary, it seemed pretty obvious, McAuliffe was going to walk away with this thing in a pretty wide margin of victory. So there wasn't really a lot of drama, actually, for the Democratic primary for Governor. But it's Trevor right, though, that a lot of what happened in the primary, might actually end up being a proxy for the next campaign for Governor?
Thomas Bowman
Certainly, to a degree. The Virginia Democrats just lost huge names that were on their bench. So now people will be looking toward Jennifer McClellan to step in, and be the next Democratic nominee. But it's also going to be wide open for everybody else who might want to run for statewide, once again. And so, you know, we've got a situation here, where it's a little bit different. So you're not likely to have Jennifer Carroll Foy running for Governor in 2025 again, because she's busy running for Congress, in one of the new districts that got created near Prince William. So I don't know, exactly, the names that are going to step up, and if they're going to be the same. Jay Jones is now leaving office, for Jay Jones ran unsuccessfully against Mark Herring, for Attorney General. He is leaving office, and just resigning, all of a sudden, right before the session starts, because he wants to spend more time with his family. And he says he might come back one day and run for office. I don't see how you do it, at least statewide. I don't see how you do that without any kind of voter base, so, or constituency. So maybe a local office in Norfolk, which are very good offices to hold.
Michael Pope
You know, what's interesting about the Jay Jones arc for 2021, is he was the only double filer to successfully be reelected. So like the voters there in his district, said, "Yeah, we're gonna hire you for another two years." And then before the first day of session, he says, "Well, maybe I'm not going to come after all." So I mean, yeah, yeah, like you...He, but he also clearly telegraphed that he's interested in doing things in the future. So I feel like we'll definitely we'll hear from him again. Although, you know, I guess it won't be in his current House of Delegates seats, at least not in the near future. Alright, so coming in at number three, our show from June analyzing the results of the Democratic primary. We were joined by the Dean of the Shar School, Mark Rozell.
Mark Rozell
Both parties actually got their more ideological type candidate in the Lieutenant Governor nomination.
Michael Pope
We were also joined by Kyle Kondik at the University of Virginia Center for Politics.
Kyle Kondik
A lot of people feel like Hampton Roads is not just important for the statewide, but there are also some districts in that part of the state that are really important for majority control of the House of Delegates this year.
Michael Pope
So yeah, this is another one of these analysis episodes, like the one we talked about with Bold Dominion. This happened right after the election, in this case, the primary, and we went through the results, and what they meant, and you know, what we could learn from them. And clearly, this got a lot of feedback, because it's one of our most popular episodes of the year, our third most popular episode of the year. What did you make of this discussion we had with Mark Rozell and Kyle Kondik?
Thomas Bowman
Well, it was a fascinating discussion, and always nice to be joined by UVA Center for Politics and George Mason's Schar School. They're good friends of ours. I don't know that I really agree, looking back, that both parties got their more ideological type candidate for Lieutenant Governor. Hala Ayala was, sure, she's liberal, and sure, she's progressive, but the ideological candidate was Sam Rasoul. And maybe there's another one but not Hala. And everybody deliberately mobilized against Sam Rasoul for whatever the reasons were. And so I'm...they selected Hala because she didn't pose a threat to what other people wanted. Right? She was a party person who would toe the McAuliffe line, and that's not ideological, that's pro Terry McAuliffe. So Hala, also, likely to run for Congress with the new district lines. So she's also somebody we potentially have not heard the last from. So yeah, people like collection analyses.
Michael Pope
Clearly, this is some of our most popular episodes, but this next episode is not an election analysis. So coming at it number two, a break from all of our election specials. One of our most popular episodes ever, the episode we did back in June about Critical Race Theory, we were joined by Virginia Commonwealth University Professor Jatia Wrighten.
Jatia Wrighten
I think Critical Race Theory sort of acts as an umbrella of fear that conservatives and Republicans have really been able to get behind, without actually having to understand what that theory actually entails, and what its purpose is.
Michael Pope
We were also joined by Sean Perryman, who appears on our list twice. Clearly, our listeners love hearing from Sean Perryman.
Sean Perryman
They're using Critical Race Theory as shorthand for anything that they don't agree with. It's sort of the Boogeyman. It's the same as cancel culture. It's really the shorthand for, "wokeness," if you will.
Michael Pope
So once again, Thomas, this is one of my favorite episodes, because we were able to do so much with the long form format we had here. We explained, the professor explained exactly what Critical Race Theory is, she actually works in this space, and is an actual legit expert on this sort of stuff. And she spent the first part of the episode explaining exactly what it is and what it meant. And then we also had soundbites that we took from, like the Loudoun County School Board, and Fox News, where they were talking about Critical Race Theory. And then we broke it down, and explained, kind of, what was going on, and why people were saying what they were saying, and what it meant for the election. And again, one of my favorite episodes, because you really got a grasp on what was actually going on, and what it meant, and why people were saying what they were saying, and sort of, what the what the environment that we were working in was at the time.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, and this episode, I'm so glad we did that episode, because I felt like I finally understood the Critical Race Theory debate after listening to Dr. Wrighten, who we had back for another episode later, and Sean Perryman who, also, was mentioned previously. So once again, my advice to Virginia Politicos is listen to these smart people who are telling the truth. Listen to Sean Perryman, listen to Jatia Wrighten. It might be difficult to hear, especially if you're invested in a different narrative, or a different point of view.
Michael Pope
There is a dispiriting part of this too, which is, you know, people are willing, and eager, to believe things that just are not true, right? So like Critical Race Theory is not taught in Virginia classrooms. And yet so many voters believe that it is. I, you know, during the campaign, I talked to voters on the campaign trail, and they just were willing, eager really, to believe things that were not true. And that, you know, was a major plank of the Youngkin campaign was banning Critical Race Theory from Virginia schools. But guess what? Critical Race Theory is not taught at Virginia schools. And so that does not mean that you can't ban it, of course. And so I think this, you know, looking ahead to 2022, this is an issue that will come up again, because there will be a bill to ban Critical Race Theory from Virginia schools. And I actually kind of think that's low hanging fruit, because, you know, it's sort of like banning a legal theory about like equitable distribution in divorce cases from third grade classrooms. Well, it's pretty easy to ban and arcane legal theory from a third grade classroom, because they're never going to talk about it anyway. So this episode actually has some some shelf life here, because it's a debate that's going to be very important in 2022.
Thomas Bowman
Well, yeah, but it's not as low hanging fruit, Michael, as you might think, because one thing that every bill has to do, is define their terms. And the Republicans are not going to be capable of defining what Critical Race Theory is. And if they do so, what they're going to find is that they've got a bill that doesn't do anything, because Critical Race Theory is just a framework to analyze history, and other other elements of social and cultural developments in the United States, and structures, and power structures, etc. And so you can't ban that, you can't- that's a First Amendment problem. Because you know, people can do whatever they want. And it takes like 70 years for these new frameworks to come about. So the frameworks that we have right now, that we're teaching little kids, were originally proposed in like the 30s, and 40s. English comes to mind, where we have like a very like, textual meaning analysis, where if if you know enough about the author, and you know enough about the symbolism that the author was looking for, then you can understand exactly what they meant out of it, no matter what, every single book. And that was an interpretation of literature that was popularized in the 20s and 30s. So that starts in academia, then that then the academics have to teach it to their students. And it has to catch on among the rest, enough academics, to teach the students at a critical mass, that takes time. And then those students need to come up, matriculate, to become professors themselves, and in classrooms themselves, and become principals, and policymakers themselves. And so it takes 70 years for that to come about. And so Critical Race Theory, which really starts in the 1970s as an academic theoretical framework, you've got another 30 years or so before you start seeing it in classrooms as a way to interpret the past.
Michael Pope
It does seem strange to ban a theory, that you're saying, "This theory is so dangerous, that we don't even want it discussed or contemplated in classrooms." So that that does seem a little outside the scope of how classrooms normally operate. But keep in mind, a number of states have already done this. So like you said earlier, they're going to, when they define their terms, they're going to realize they've got a bill that doesn't do anything. Well, I think some people would be kind of happy with that, actually. And because they can campaign on it and they can go to voters and say, "Look, we have accomplished this." Now keep in mind, seven states have done this, Arkansas, Florida, Idaho, Iowa, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, and Tennessee have all banned Critical Race Theory. So Virginia might end up being added to that list sometime soon.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah. And look, this is what another reason why I said before the break, you can't count on the suburbs, because the suburbs, I think I described it in this episode, is like sand people, where they scare easily. So they're only fairweather friends for the Democratic Party. If the Democratic Party is the party of the oppressed, the suburbs are the opposite of the oppressed. They're the ones doing the oppression on the rest of the populace. And now we see, the suburbs have now elected a Republican slate on opposition to Critical Race Theory, that's going to lead to more oppression. So like that to the Democrats chose to throw in with, they were afraid of losing the suburbs, so they didn't go all out on rural and urban populations who they took for granted, that the rural populations were gonna vote Republican anyway. And the urban populations were gonna vote Democrat anyway. And look where that gotcha.
Michael Pope
Yeah, you know, the so our episode on Critical Race Theory sort of talked about what the actual theory was, and what it meant, and then talked about the political debate, and sort of, you feel like you're kind of banging your head against the wall a little bit. There's the old axiom in politics, if you're explaining you're losing. So this, this issue of Critical Race Theory, put Democrats on the defensive, because they said, "Well, wait a second, let me explain to you this academic theory that is arcane, and actually difficult to kind of grasp," and so like, I think it'd be interesting to sort of think about, in retrospect, what could have happened with that debate? Like what...So clearly, Democrats chose the wrong path, because they lost the debate of a Critical Race Theory. How could they have done things differently?
Thomas Bowman
It's all in your framing and messaging, that's 100% of the debate, as in how you frame it, how you message it. And if Democrats failed, it's somewhere, it's got one of those two aspects involved. And so to your point, if you're explaining, you're losing, then the counter to that is to have talking points ready to go that reframes that debate, and in a very snappy message saying, like, "I just want our kids to learn the truth. I don't care what the truth is, as long as it's the truth. I want to have the best schools. I want to have the best educated populace so that we can have good jobs for them."
Michael Pope
It would have been interesting, in retrospect, it would have been interesting to hear Jennifer McClellan explain to Glenn Youngkin what Critical Race Theory was, I mean, like, I would love to see that counterfactual.
Thomas Bowman
Sure, I agree. But let's move on, because we're ready to move on to our number one most popular episode of 2021.
Michael Pope
Coming in at first place, our most popular episode of 2021, Chaz Nuttycombe, with our October episode about the most competitive House races.
Chaz Nuttycombe
Is there going to be a suburban swing back to the Republicans? If so, how big is it going to be?
Michael Pope
Yes, Chaz Nuttycombe, there would be a suburban swing back to Republicans, and it would be so big, that it would take out seven unlucky Democrats, two Republican challengers, those seven were Nancy Guy, Alex Askew, Martha Mugler, Joshua Cole, Roz Tyler, Chris Hurst, and an incumbent Democrat we didn't even talk about on that episode, Thomas, Laschrece Aird, also lost. What, so what do you make of this most popular episode of 2021? Why was this the one that got so many listens?
Thomas Bowman
Well, once again, well, I think Chaz Nuttycombe as a well known analyst, is a pretty big draw. So we should definitely have him on more. But number two, the rankings that he put together were, I mean, nearly spot on. Obviously, nobody predicted Aird going down. And I think that's kind of the point, is the Democrats didn't see this coming. They thought they were going to lose 2, 3, 4 delegates, and keep control of the House. And it didn't go that way. And one reason it didn't go that way is because Terry McAuliffe didn't leave Northern Virginia or Richmond. And so all of these Democrats, outside of Northern Virginia, or Richmond, didn't get any coattails, didn't get any excitement. And you know, a vote is a vote is a vote, on the statewide level, if it comes from Martinsville or Bristol or Fairfax County. And so you got to go out to Martinsville and Bristol, etc., in order to get more votes there. Because what happened was, Democrats didn't even try, which sent the message that we don't care about you, which encouraged everybody else to go vote for the guy who was at least showing up at the local businesses and establishments in town, Glenn Youngkin.
Michael Pope
So if you take a look at all these episodes, as a theme, there are several lessons that you and I are getting from our listeners. They like elections. They like the pre election discussion, where we go into the specifics of the candidates, and the dynamics of the election. They like the analysis that happens after the election. So the, sort of, all the election related stuff, but they also are really into the deep dives on the Clean Economy Act and Critical Race Theory. If we're looking ahead for 2022, I think we're probably going to have a lot more elections next year. I think that's on the horizon. So we definitely want to do that. But also keeping in mind that we want to do some deep dives on issues like marijuana legalization, that our listeners want to hear about. The other takeaway lesson here is that people want to hear from Sean Perryman and Chaz Nuttycombe.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, I guess we're gonna need to keep them on speed dial.
Michael Pope
Any other thoughts that you got to take away from our top 10 list here of 2021?
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, sure, Michael. It reaffirms my belief that people are hungry for more long form news and analysis, like we bring on Transition Virginia. And I think that this fills a gap, and so I'm just going to put out a call. If you liked any of these episodes, and you think that we should be doing more of it, we need your help. Sign up and become a patreon, so that Michael and I can afford to continue doing this. It's a it's definitely a labor of love. And so, and we love the people who help us.
Michael Pope
Okay, so one more thing before we leave. We've got a special New Years surprise from our friend Steve Artley.
Thomas Bowman
So that's all for this episode. Hit us up on social media or get in touch at transitionvirginia.com. There you can check the transcript of this episode and find the links to support the show on Patreon. Special thanks to Emily Cottrell who transcribes every one of these so they're accessible to everyone.
Michael Pope
Thanks for listening to Transition Virginia. If you like what you heard, give us a five star review. It helps other people find the show. We'll be back next week so subscribe to the show so you don't miss a single episode.
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