Why should VA localities want public sector unions?
The Transition Team analyzes Rep. Don Beyer's proposal to mandate COVID vaccines for train and air travel. Then they answer a listener message about the state of House of Delegates races. Thomas and Michael also interview David Broder and Tammie Wondong of SEIU 512 about collective bargaining for public employees, and reasons why localities should support it.
Michael Pope
Welcome to Transition Virginia, the podcast that's still covering the transition of power in Virginia politics. I'm Michael Pope.
Thomas Bowman
And I'm Thomas Bowman. Later in the show, we'll talk to David Broder and Tammie Wondong of SEIU 512, about how employees of local governments across Virginia are entering into collective bargaining agreements.
Michael Pope
Now, as you might imagine, not everyone likes the idea of collective bargaining, or even union organizing, for that matter. And that brings us, Thomas, to one of our new sponsors.
Steve Artley
This message brought to you by big friends of bosses and magnets and is solely responsible for its content. Hello, this is Boss, I got to make water. Speaking on behalf of big friends of bosses and magnets, about a growing movement in our legislature that's sympathetic to organized labor, eroding the hallowed halls of Virginia businesses. I'm just one boss, but I got to take a stand. I'll be out there in the dark, I'll be everywhere. Wherever there's a fight, so management can stay on top, I'll be there. Wherever there's a union agitator, trying to organize, greedily demanding extra pay for overtime hours or health benefits as good as their boss's, monies that chop into corporate profits to cause executive to make cuts and seven figure salaries, or curb company yachts, country club memberships, I'll be there. I'll be in the way bosses yell when their pockets are bulging with year end bonuses. I'll be in a way owners laugh when they screw a retiree out of his pension. And when the executives are eating the food that laborers raise, living in the mansions workers build, I'll be there too. You can join me in the fight to save the magnets. Put a clamp on organized labor. Here's how. Send your certified check to BFBM P.O. Box 86 Cayman Islands or call 866 offshored 91141. Overseas tolls, foreign payoffs, and kickbacks may apply.
Michael Pope
Foreign kickbacks may apply. Thomas that was, the one and only, Steve Artley evoking, "The Grapes of Wrath," that famous speech from, "The Grapes of Wrath." Yet another masterpiece here from our regular contributor Steve Artley.
Thomas Bowman
Thanks again, Steve. We can always count on you to pull through with one of these things. And thanks for being a sponsor.
Michael Pope
A pseudo sponsor anyway. Okay, well, let's get on to the news. Okay, so you've heard about President Biden's new vaccine mandate for employers that have more than 100 employees. But have you heard about what Congressman Beyer is proposing? Vaccine mandates for domestic flights. You want to get on a domestic flight and head anywhere in the United States? Get ready to show proof of vaccination, or a negative COVID test. That's the idea behind Congressman Beyers Safe Travels Act, which would also apply to Amtrak passengers. Now I asked Kenneth Button at George Mason University Schar School about how the airline industry might respond to this. And here's what he told me.
Kenneth Button
The airline industry is in a pretty tricky position because the pickup in traffic is nowhere near as fast as they thought it would be. Therefore, they want to get more passengers. And they want people to be able to fly, to get on planes easily, and off of planes easily, with a minimum disruption. So on that side, they presumably do not like the idea of testing. On the other hand, there are people who won't fly unless there's testing or evidence that one has been vaccinated. But I also think you have to look at the longer term picture. If people do get any form of transmission on the flight, and it's demonstrated, then the airline industry will have real problems in the longer term.
Michael Pope
So the airlines are in a tricky position, but Beyer might also be in a tricky position because his bill, if it becomes law, would be challenged in court. Here's what Virginia legal expert, Rich Kelsey, says about the potential legal challenge.
Rich Kelsey
He has to prove that his bill, which he says will help prevent the spread of COVID, that the vaccine actually does that. And I'm not really sure. I know a lot of people feel that way. But I'm not really sure that anyone has ever actually said that. What the vaccine does, according to the CDC, is it helps to prevent the severity of an outbreak of COVID. But everybody knows that a person that has been vaccinated can A) get COVID and B) spread COVID. And so I think the problem that we're going to have here is this idea that merely being vaccinated prevents the spread of COVID. I do think he'd have a better chance, if he just simply said, "You want to fly, you have to show that you've been tested in the last 72 hours," because that goes to whether or not a person has COVID. And so I think there's a legitimate challenge there.
Michael Pope
So Thomas, what do you think about this debate here, in terms of requiring a testing mandate, instead of a vaccine mandate for domestic flights?
Thomas Bowman
People who are unvaccinated are 11 times more likely to get COVID. And there is a long legal history of vaccine mandates, across the spectrum, for hundreds of years in American history. So any thought that it wouldn't stand up in court, it's just wrong. The Supreme Court has already ruled on the legality of vaccine mandates, and found that absolutely, it's legal. And they did that over 100 years ago, schools have vaccine mandates. In fact, when the COVID vaccine gets recommended for schoolchildren, by the CDC, then it will automatically become part of the regimen for Virginia school children, thanks to a law that the Virginia Democrats passed in 2019, before COVID was even on the scene. So because of that, yes, the vaccine mandates will absolutely stand up in court, anybody who tries to fight it is absolutely wasting their money. And these vaccines are absolutely effective at preventing the spread of COVID in the first place, in addition to making it far less likely that you would have a severe case or hospitalization, or you know, God forbid, even death. As far as the airlines go, Michael, the airlines actually have an incentive to mandate vaccines for their passengers. And there's a few reasons for that. One, the people who don't want to get vaccines, are also the people who don't want to wear masks, in many cases, who are presenting problems to the airline workers, and they're having to actually ban them from flying, altogether, on their airline. The other thing is that they've already lost customers. And the reason that they've already lost customers is because they perceive flying as an unsafe activity in this pandemic. And rightly so, because we know the science. If you are in a contained area, with COVID around, and for an extended period of time. And by the way, Delta allows for fleeting transmission. So somebody can literally just walk past you, even outside, and transmit COVID to you. That's how quickly it transmits, compared to the original wild strain of COVID, Michael, which used to take about 15 minutes of exposure. So yeah, airlines are not, frankly, safe right now. So people are more likely to travel on an airline where they know for sure that everybody around them is vaccinated. And this is not rocket science, right? So they've had like, for example, in the past Polio vaccine mandates to travel on airlines, Smallpox vaccine airline mandates. You used to have to show your Smallpox vaccine card, or your Polio vaccine card as recently as the 60s or 70s. So this is not a new thing. This is not something that anybody can legitimately challenge, because in order to legitimately challenge it, you have to prove that you were harmed by the policy. And by definition, there will be not a single human being that can prove they were harmed by a vaccine mandate. So I think it would just get dismissed outright from court or just completely shut down. So I mean, Michael, these airlines know that they can attract more passengers by having these vaccine mandates. You're already seeing some airlines starting to do this, specifically, I can think of Cuantas is the first airline to mandate vaccines for all their passengers, and I know other airlines are considering it, including American, Southwest, and some very big carriers in the United States. So and now it's more likely that your fellow travelers are going to be vaccinated with Biden's new mandate that requires a vaccine for workers in businesses with over 100 employees. So, we're gonna get there, we need to get there faster. And people like Rich Kelsey, who are trying to throw up false legal arguments, and you know, I'm not sure why, but the science is available, the case history is available, you don't have to be an expert to know it's gonna stand up just fine.
Michael Pope
So the point he was trying to make is that if your concern is that you don't want to catch COVID on the flight, and there's this person sitting next to you that you're worried about, there, there are sort of two choices that we're presented with here in this sort of discussion. One is, that person has been vaccinated, in which case, Kelsey makes the makes the argument that person actually could have COVID, despite the fact they've been vaccinated, or the alternative is, that person has had the test within the 72 hours and tested negative. So from his perspective that, you know, you would rather want the person sitting next to you to have tested negative, and probably be negative, versus having been vaccinated, and potentially it could be positive, but we wouldn't know if they're positive or not.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, but why does he think it's got to be a binary choice? The science is very clear that you should be doing both.
Michael Pope
Well, the the legislation, Beyer's legislation is a binary choice. To get on a domestic flight, the choice is it A or B, either you have to show you've been vaccinated or take the test.
Thomas Bowman
Okay. But it shouldn't be a binary choice, the best policy that would actually be rooted in science is to be vaccinated and show up with a test. In fact, they have rapid tests that you could actually, if you wanted, take in the airport.
Michael Pope
That's what the Schar School guy said, actually, when I interviewed him, is that it Beyer's bill would be better if instead of being A or B, it was A and B.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, well, then I would agree with that, because that's what the science says.
Michael Pope
Well, maybe Congressman Beyer's people are listening to this and they make it, kind of make an amendment to their legislation. Okay, so let's move on to the next part of our show where we check our messages. This one comes from @likeigiveadamn on Twitter. He asks, "Can we get some update on how the legislative races are shaping up?" Well, thanks for the question, Adam, and thanks for being a regular listener and an OG fan of the podcast from way back in the day, before the pandemic even. So, Adam, Republicans are targeting about a dozen incumbent Democrats. The Republican State Legislative Committee actually has a list, like a published list, of the 13 Democratic incumbents that they're targeting for defeat. So the most competitive races are Roz Tyler in Southside and Chris Hurst in Blacksburg. In Northern Virginia, they're targeting Wendy Gooditis, Josh Cole, Elizabeth Guzman and Dan Helmer. In the Richmond area, they're targeting Don Adams, Skylar Van Valkenburg, and Rodney Willett. Down in Virginia Beach, they're targeting Kelly Converse Fowler, Nancy Guy, Alex Askew, and Martha Mugler. Thomas, what do you think about this list of specific incumbents that Republicans are targeting?
Thomas Bowman
Well, from the Republican perspective, this is exactly who you want to target, because these are the people who one, are most likely to lose if you field the high quality candidate against them. And two, they're going to have very expensive races, just because you're fielding a candidate against them. Nothing is for sure in Virginia politics. And so these are the people, if you're the Republican Party, that you want to go after, because you stand the best chance of winning, and you can potentially just beat them by having more money than the incumbent does. And Michael, I also, on this issue, checked in with a member of the House of Delegates about these races. And this delegate said they were particularly worried about six races, in particular, Josh Cole, Kelly Fowler, Nancy Guy, Chris Hurst, Roz Tyler, and Alex Askew. These are some of the most competitive races and that's six seats. And that is enough for the 55 Democrats that are currently in the majority to lose that majority.
Michael Pope
The bare minimum.
Thomas Bowman
Right.
Michael Pope
That's the bare minimum they would need, right, like so they would that gives them no room for error.
Thomas Bowman
Correct. Now, the Democrats believe that they might be able to flip a seat or two, and they're targeting Glenn Davis in Virginia Beach, some Republicans in the Richmond suburbs and exurbs like Kirk Cox in Colonial Heights, Roxanne Robinson in Chesterfield, and Rob Bloxom in Accomack County on the Eastern Shore. Now the problem is they go after these Republicans every year. So I don't really feel comfortable saying whether or not they're like easy ones, because the Democrats already have the easy wins. They're sitting on them. So the good news for some of these people is that they're not all running against strong Republican challengers. Particularly I can think of Wendy Gooditis is running against, what many people consider, to be a weak Republican candidate in Loudoun County. And most observers that I've spoken with think that she should be able to hang on. But like I said, Michael, there are no guarantees in Virginia politics.
Michael Pope
So the Democrats have had two election cycles where they picked up a lot of seats, most notably, the one in 2017, where they picked up a whole bunch of seats. So I guess the real question is, are there any Democratic incumbents out there who are actually in what should be Republican seats?
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, Roz Tyler comes to mind. She just had her district redistricted after the racial packing court case. And she is now in a lean Republican district, very slightly lean Republican, one that somebody who was an active candidate could potentially hold on for the Democratic Party, but Roz Tyler, she is not as active compared to, like, I can think of a candidate like Irene Shin who's knocking doors all day long, even in a Democratic district, she's not necessarily doing that. So that is going to be one that is very difficult for the Democrats to keep, not impossible, and certainly, given enough turnout, they could keep it, but that's gonna be a tough one. I think that's the one that they are most likely to lose. Chris Hurst in Blacksburg, too, is one where they're likely to lose. Because, again, turnout margins are not amazing there. And you need a very activated Democratic base in order to keep a seat like that. So we'll see. It's not impossible, they could of course, just keep everybody, but there also could lose some people. And some of the reason for that, Michael, is fundraising. Now that Democrats have the majority, and the trifecta, even, it's a lot less compelling of a pitch to donors to say, "Help us keep the majority," then to, "Help us take the majority." So when they were trying to take the majority, they had partners like Mike Bloomberg, and a lot of money pouring in from California, and New York, Democratic donors who wanted to assist with that. But those people are gone now, Michael, now that Democrats have that majority, there's no incentive for them to try to take it. So what we're seeing is that a lot of lobbyist money becomes more important. And normally, for the average member, there's at least 20 to $40,000, depending on your rank, and your committee positions, of lobbyist money available where all they have to do is call, but I'm hearing that some lobbyists are refusing to contribute, especially to the leadership pacs, like the Speaker's pac. And the reason that I'm hearing for this is because they're playing footsie with unions. Luke Torian, specifically, came out in favor of a number of union, pro union issues, including the Repeal of Right to Work on his Labor Day message.
Michael Pope
Yeah, actually Thomas, that was a huge moment, because Luke Torian is such an influential member. He's part of the Legislative Black Caucus. He's Chairman of the Appropriations Committee. He's an extremely influential member. Do you think, Thomas, Luke Torian, moving in the direction of overturning Right to Work will bring other Democrats along with him?
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, I think it does. And Luke Torian, by the way, was never previously known for super progressive policy stances. And I think that this reflects a couple things. One, Luke Torian is a pastor. And so he believes in doing things because they're the right thing to do. Luke Torian is also relatively high ranking in the Black Caucus. And because we know Right to Work's history as a Jim Crow Law, this could potentially be an issue that the Black Caucus decides to take on. And I think it would behoove them to do so. And that could absolutely shift the tide in Virginia, because the Black Caucus has often been very cooperative with the Republican Party when they were in the majority. And so they've built up a lot of credibility among some of those people, and those, with those relationships that they have. And it could, at the very least, send a signal that it is time to consider such a policy. And Michael, because he's Chairman of House Appropriations, because he's so high ranking, that could very well send a message to people like Terry McAuliffe, who's running statewide, that says, "Come on, we're ready for this. Let's do it." This is a bill that would likely pass the House, if they thought it could pass the Senate.
Michael Pope
Which right now, I mean, unless something changes with the Senate, that's not going to happen, Thomas. I mean, like I, I've interviewed these senators, they're not on board with it. And it's...unless things change, you know, things, of course, could change. But the way things are now, the Senate is just not going to go for this, at least the current Senate. And so you would really need to wait until after the next Senate election to get any movement on this.
Thomas Bowman
That's right, Michael. The Virginia Senate is a far more conservative institution, just all around. And there are a lot more...It's not fair to call them Southern Dems, because they're not Southern Dems, the way that they would be known colloquially, but they have the inherited spirit, I would say, of the Southern Dems, and they're, they like to be far more pro business, I can think of like, at least like people like Monte Mason and Linwood Lewis and Creigh Deeds, who would not support this, or would only support it under duress. So it's going to take something like Terry McAuliffe, coming out in favor of repealing Right to Work in this campaign.
Michael Pope
I don't get that sense that that's gonna happen, Thomas.
Thomas Bowman
I mean, like, I don't either.
Michael Pope
Even if the Senate decides they want to go for this, or let's even say after the Senate election, after the Senate election, and in the next Governor, potentially Terry McAuliffe, or potentially Glenn Youngkin, is in the second half of his term, I get the sense that a Governor McAuliffe, a potential future Governor McAuliffe, would sort of use his powers of persuasion to prevent that bill from ever arriving on his desk. I just don't think he's in the camp of people that want to overturn Right to Work. And so, you know, I'm kind of wondering about Torian's movement here. Does this actually change the potential course of future events, or is Terry McAuliffe's unwillingness to move forward with this, just going to put a stop sign on that?
Thomas Bowman
I would consider it a shot across the bow, Michael. Most of the lobbyists in Richmond are Republicans, and they represent non union or anti union organizations. These people are in their ears all the time, they have a purse that they can use as a stick or a carrot, if they don't like the things that the Democrats are trying to do. And they are, overwhelmingly, in favor of big business. So if you support any of these policies, what you need to do is get in touch with your elected representative, or someone like Chairman Torian. And you need to tell them one, that you're glad that they've- he's taken the stance, or that they've taken the stance, and that you want to see the Right to Work repealed because they need to hear from more people than just the ones who are lobbying them representing big businesses. All right, we got to take a break, because when we come back, we're going to talk to David Broder and Tammie Wondong from SEIU 512, about employees of local government entering into collective bargaining agreements with their employers. We'll be right back.
Michael Pope
And we're back on Transition Virginia. We're going to talk about collective bargaining. Now this year, for the first time ever, employees of local governments have been able to enter into collective bargaining agreements with their employer. How will that work? And what can local governments expect?
Thomas Bowman
We've got a great panel to dig into this issue. We're joined by a human services assistant for the Department of Family Services at Fairfax County. She's joining us in her role as the Fairfax Chapter President for SEIU 512. Tammie Wondong, thank you for joining us.
Tammie Wondong
It's great to be here.
Michael Pope
We're also joined by the President of SEIU 512, David Broder. Thanks for joining us.
David Broder
Thanks so much for having us.
Thomas Bowman
So Tammie, what Is the Service Employees International Union? And who do you represent?
Tammie Wondong
We are local government workers. And our positions consist of homecare workers, child care workers, social workers, mental health, maintenance mechanics, just about everything it takes to take care of daily living. So that's who we are.
Michael Pope
David Broder, what exactly is collective bargaining? How does it work? What does it look like? Why should our listeners care about this issue?
David Broder
It's a great question. So collective bargaining is the process by which workers come together to form a union and bargain with their employer for better pay benefits and working conditions. But more importantly, collective bargaining has proven to be the best tool for improving the lives of workers, for improving the services delivered to a community, for fighting poverty, and for advancing equity throughout our region, whether you're in a union or not. And a little bit closer to home, for me, collective bargaining, and union contracts, are the reason that my family entered the middle class and how I was able to grow up healthy and safe.
Thomas Bowman
Virginia, for the first time, passed a law that would allow localities to enter into these collective bargaining agreements. What was that 2020 legislation, and how did it change things for working families in Virginia, David?
David Broder
So for 44 years, Virginia banned all workers from collective bargaining. And I just want to point out how out of the mainstream we have been. Workers, public sector workers in 47 other states, and D.C., have had collective bargaining rights, but Virginia workers have gone without. And what the legislature did last year, was to repeal that ban for local government employees like Tammie and her co workers, and allow local governments to choose to opt in to granting collective bargaining rights for frontline essential workers.
Michael Pope
So Alexandria was the first out of the gate here to pass an ordinance for collective bargaining and the agreement they struck allowed for collective bargaining for pay and benefits, but notably, not for discipline. Tammie Wondong, how important is collective bargaining for the issue of discipline?
Tammie Wondong
It will be very important. Workers often come to the union, and when they come, you know, with their concerns, it's mainly because they are fearful of speaking up. Because if they speak up, you know, there's retaliation, that they feel in some sort of a way. So they come because they have the support of the Union. And sometimes when things do happen, they just found that some workers say, "I'm just gonna let it go. And I'm gonna look for another job, I don't want to be bothered." You know, so the fear of fighting for what's right, they didn't have that. But collective bargaining will bring that to the front. When there is concern, they can speak up, and they will be able to sit with their supervisors to work this problem out, but the correct policies and procedures that go along with it, more so than just leaving their employment out of frustration or fear that nothing can be done.
Thomas Bowman
Arlington has also taken action by passing one of these ordinances, and Fairfax and Loudoun are currently considering it. And there's discussion that Richmond and Charlottesville are up next. David, is there anywhere else we can expect local governments to take action?
David Broder
I hope to see every local government take action to give workers this fundamental human right. And I think this is a real opportunity for local elected officials to live their values, especially as we've gone through the pandemic. If you have called a frontline essential worker, a hero, if you've put out a yard sign to thank them, then you need to pass collective bargaining rights so that those same workers, whether they're mental health workers, social workers, librarians, trash collectors, will have the ability to have a seat at the table so that they can bargain over do they have enough PPE so that they can bargain over flexible work schedules that allow them to care for the community and their family, and to bargain for better services for all working families.
Michael Pope
I'm curious about how this works, what the process here is. We talked about ordinances, so Alexandria is passing an ordinance, Arlington has passed an ordinance. What exactly does that mean? Tammie Wondong, how does this process work?
Tammie Wondong
Well, when the ordinance is passed, okay, that becomes, as we say, a ratified contract, and no longer can the worker be put in a situation where your job is changing all the time. You're supposed to have a set duties as to what your job title says it is for you to do. But since the pandemic, it's kind of where they have placed people to do additional jobs, and I can speak to that myself. I have pretty much been all around the county doing other workers jobs, filling in, just to stay employed myself. Okay, but those are not the duties of my assigned position. So with an ordinance in place, before that can happen, that would have to be a negotiation, you must be able to sit down and say, "This is what has come forth. You just can't put it up on the employee to do this just to maintain employment."
Michael Pope
David Broder, that ordinance that Alexandria has passed, that Arlington has passed, it's not the end of the process. It's the beginning of the process, right? Doesn't it like start, start things moving forward, as opposed to being sort of the end result of this agreement?
David Broder
That's right, the ordinance really kind of lays out the rules of the road. It's kind of like legislation. And it sets some very important things for collective bargaining. It sets out who's covered, what's the process by which workers choose to have a union, because we want to make very clear, collective bargaining, or ordinances, don't bring the union, workers decide whether or not they want to have a union. Collective bargaining ordinances merely lay out how that happens, who's covered, and what they have the right to bargain over. It's really the start of the process. And it matters greatly. As we've said, it is fantastic that workers in Alexandria pushed and got an even better ordinance than was first proposed. But it's really problematic that they don't have the ability to even bargain over discipline. And I'll tell you why. Many times people say, "Oh, this is an issue where the union wants to protect bad workers." That's totally untrue. And it's an anti worker lie. Why it's important is workers need to feel safe, that they can speak out when something is going wrong. And we saw this during the pandemic, in nursing homes. Nursing homes that had collective bargaining, where people could speak out because they bargained safe, transparent discipline processes, they were able to say what was going wrong, get what they needed, and unionized nursing homes saw 30% fewer deaths among clients and workers than non unionized nursing homes. This is literally a matter of life and death. And we need everything to be on the table for frontline workers.
Thomas Bowman
Everything on the table, so you have an ordinance that sets the rules of the game, then the workers themselves, assuming that ordinance passes, the workers themselves have a vote. Do we want to be represented by a union, and you need 30% of workers to vote in favor of entering into this?
David Broder
When 30% of workers sign membership cards, it triggers a union election. And then the union is one when a majority of those in the election vote yes, for the union. Just the same way that we pick our elected leaders, it's that same open, transparent, democratic process that workers use to choose whether or not they want to have a union represent them.
Thomas Bowman
You have your collective bargaining agreement negotiations. And those, as you were saying, would include things like discipline, or it should, pay working conditions, benefits. Tammie, I'm wondering if there's been a time in your role with SEIU 512, that you can speak to, where the union has directly improved the situation for these workers?
Tammie Wondong
One situation that we can talk about, that we're very proud of, is the paid family leave. Prior to paid family leave, there was only roughly two weeks of leave for the workers, you know, whether they became new parents, or it was mainly for people who had given birth, but there was nothing else for the other workers. So we fought and we put forth before the board of supervisors stating that, you know, paid family leave is a very necessary leave, you know, due to aging parents, you know, sickness on the job, because you know, you cannot work when you're sick, of course. But that six weeks of paid family leave would be a life changer. And it has been a life changer for many of our workers, just having that cushion there for if they exhausted, currently, that they have, they can move over into the paid family leave. So you know, that is one item that we raise, and we present it, and we fought for it, and we won it.
Thomas Bowman
We talked about why a worker might want to be represented by a union, but it's not just the workers who can benefit from a union representing them, right? Why would a locality, like Fairfax, or like Richmond, or like Buckingham County, why would one of these localities want to do that?
David Broder
So the benefits to communities are so clear, and Tammie can talk about the amazing work that she has done with families, and children, and older adults and how that's made the community richer. But here is why it's so important. Here's why when I take my union hat off, as a dad of two young kids in the Fairfax County Public School System who use the local libraries, and the local parks, here's why I care about it. When frontline workers have a seat at the table, they can improve the services for everybody. They know best, what's needed, they know best how to deliver great services, they know best where to find cost savings, they know best how to keep the community whole and safe. When localities pass collective bargaining, they see their recruitment and retention dramatically improve, which is another area that we can lower costs for local governments and put that money, put those savings, into better services and into livable wages and benefits so that workers like Tammie can do what she does best for our region's families.
Tammie Wondong
Okay, and I also would like to add that I have been employed for 32 years in the county, and I started as a Sack worker, many of those children are now young adults with their own families. And the beauty of what I can see with that is they have gone off to school, and came back, and have taken jobs in the county. So it's just that they didn't leave to go to another state or another jurisdiction, they came back home after receiving education, started their families, where they are now raising their families. And giving back to Fairfax County, as Fairfax County gave to them, as you know, as they were coming up as young children. So that's what you want to do, you want to retain, and they need to come back, give back, work in their community, and grow old in their community. You know, so that's, that's more or less what we're looking for. And I can attest to seeing many families, even the older adults, being able to thrive in their communities without having to be placed outside of jurisdictions, because their monies is not enough. But you know, when services are put there, they can stay and stay within the communities of what is affordable for them, because that's where they raised their family. And that's where they work. But now they need to age in place. And that needs to be their final resting place.
David Broder
I'll tell you one other reason real quick, why it's important for local governments to pass collective bargaining. We are all seeing in the news, how hard time businesses are having attracting workers back to work in the pandemic. And it's impacting local services. My children to go to the school aged Child Care program. It's an amazing program in Fairfax County that provides after school education for local students. But we had one daughter who got in and our other daughter was on the waiting list, because the county has had a hard time recruiting enough educators, she just got in. And so providing a contract, having clear benchmarks for pay and benefits that workers can count on, is going to make it easier for local governments to recruit the educators and the first responders that all of us rely on. And we're never going to get out of this pandemic if we don't have them in place.
Michael Pope
So, we've been talking about employees of local governments, you guys represent employees of local governments, but what about state workers? So when the General Assembly was considering the legislation back in 2020, the House wanted to allow collective bargaining for state workers. But the votes were not there in the Senate. David Broder, should state workers also be able to engage in collective bargaining, and if so, should that be on the agenda for the future?
David Broder
Yes, every single worker deserves collective bargaining rights, every single worker. So state workers deserve collective bargaining rights, homecare workers deserve collective bargaining rights, higher ed employees deserve collective bargaining rights. The legislature absolutely needs to come back, next January, and pass a comprehensive bill to ensure that every worker has the right, if they want to, to join together with their co workers, form a union, and bargain a contract.
Thomas Bowman
The law that they passed in 2020 really sets up Virginia as a wild west for localities that can pass whatever the ordinance is going to be, and there's no set...your collective bargaining shall include, at least, right, outline. What changes what SEIU like to make to improve the state law, if any, in the process of collective bargaining in the public sector in Virginia?
David Broder
The rights you have on the job shouldn't be dictated by county lines. Tammie could tell you more about her co workers who've gone from one county to the next in search of better pay so they can care for their families. And we're really at risk, as you say, of creating this wild west, where workers are going to have wildly divergent rights. And where counties that don't pass collective bargaining, are going to be at a real disadvantage to recruit the educators and first responders that they need. So every locality, every Virginian, needs the General Assembly to go back and pass a bill that does two things. One, creates a statewide standard so you don't have to worry about what rights you do or don't have, when you pass these imaginary lines that divide our counties and cities. And two, they need to pass a comprehensive bill that will give every worker in the public sector collective bargaining rights, because let's remember very briefly, that all private sector workers have collective bargaining rights as enshrined in federal law, but public employee rights are determined by state government. You know, we just need public employees to have the same rights that 10s of millions of workers have across the country.
Tammie Wondong
When young workers come to Fairfax County, they come to a great place to work. The trainings are phenomenal. There's always training is going around on to enhance our skill sets. But you know, when these young people come, and when they feel that they are not valued for what they bring to the table, what tends to happen, could be, they come, they receive all of this training, and their frustration will take them, as many as I know, to the next county who grabbed them right away, because why? They came from Fairfax County, and they have to do very little training of our employees when they go to the next County, because Fairfax County put you on that, you know, you know, you are a hot ticket item, okay, and very good package. But if you're not treated fairly on the job, you know, young people don't stay for the long haul. I see them come, get what they need, and they're gone, just like that. But if you- if they go over to the surrounding counties, they pick them up just like that. So this is what we want to try to stop because of the fact that the county, once again, have to hire, train, you know, recruiting and training workers, and then that same worker would turn around and go give all of that skill set to the next jurisdiction.
Michael Pope
One last question before we wrap this up. Critics of collective bargaining, say, "Allowing [this] for employees of local governments, will lead to higher property tax bills to pay for the increased cost." David Broder, have we seen that? And is that something that people should be worried about, moving into the future?
David Broder
I mean, critics of collective bargaining also think that we shouldn't have a minimum wage, and we shouldn't have child labor laws. So I only take their criticism so seriously. But to your question, no, it doesn't lead to higher local property taxes. What we see is it leads to more effective government. And yes, there are increases in living wages and benefits as we want for our community. Those workers put that money right back into the community. It's offset by the improved recruitment, and retention, and the cutting down on wasteful spending, and the money that's lost in having to replace the workers who leave. Collective bargaining is an unequivocal good for everybody.
Tammie Wondong
I ditto with with David. You know, it is a it is very necessary, at this point in time, in our lives, due to the fact that workers like myself, I am retiring out, okay. I have, you know, given over 32 years, at this time. Okay, but new people are coming in, but I want them to have better than what I have. So this is why the fight is critical. You know, it's kind of like a life and death, their life depends on it, because they want better for their families. And I just want to say, whereas I used to live in Fairfax County, but I've moved out so that I can have my salary to work better for me in Prince William County, you know, the same house that I live in, in Fairfax County, now will possibly cost me over a million dollars in Fairfax. But I have that same luxury in Prince William County, okay. People should not have to leave the county for better living. Pay your people, you know, let's enter into a great ordinance where they will have a say so around the conditions that they work in so that they won't have to flee to other jurisdictions just because something didn't quite go right.
David Broder
I think I would just add to those local elected leaders, to those state legislators who are looking at the question of establishing collective bargaining rights for their employees or for all workers, I would point them to the nonpartisan Watson Center poll that shows that nearly seven in 10 Virginians support collective bargaining rights. We would point to the polling that shows that unions are more popular than they've ever been. The community wants this, the community wants their first responders, their educators, their mental health staff to have a seat at the table, and elected officials should follow their lead.
Thomas Bowman
So that's all for this episode.
Michael Pope
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Thomas Bowman
Like and follow @TransitionVA on Twitter and anywhere pods are cast.
Michael Pope
Read the transcripts at TransitionVirginia.com and special thanks to Emily Cottrell for figuring out what the heck we're saying.
Thomas Bowman
Thanks for being on the Transition Team. We're your hosts, Thomas Bowman.
Michael Pope
And I'm Michael Pope.
