Michael Pope is out this week, so Lauren Burke of the BURKEFILE Podcast filled in as guest host.

IN THE NEWS: Lawmakers are returning to Richmond for a Reconvene Session, and they're faced with more than two dozen vetoes from the Governor's Office. One of those vetoes was a bill introduced by Del. Patrick Hope to establish a work group to study whether juvenile justice services should be moved from the Department of Public Safety and Homeland Security to Health and Human Resources.

Also, several Virginia media organizations are filing suit to see submissions to a tip line for parents to submit complaints about objectionable material in the classroom.

Finally, VA Attorney General Jason Miyares filed a brief with the Supreme Court to oppose the reformed admissions process at Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology, which he calls, "discriminatory."

INTERVIEW:

Delegate Danica Roem talks about her new book, "Burn the Page: A True Story of Torching Doubts, Blazing Trails, and Igniting Change." She talks about the way trauma and tragedy can bond people, the responsibility of elected representatives to serve their communities, and the importance of being able to tell your own story.

See more at https://linktr.ee/JacklegMedia.

Learn about our sponsor SAARA of Virginia: saara.org.

Thomas Bowman

I'm Thomas Bowman.

Lauren Burke

I'm Lauren Burke.

Thomas Bowman

And this is Pod Virginia, a podcast that's missing one of its hosts. Michael's not here and so we've got Lauren Burke of the BURKEFILE Podcast filling in. Lauren, thanks for being on the show.

Lauren Burke

No problem. I love this podcast and I'm glad to be here.

Thomas Bowman

Nice of you to say- your check is in the mail. Later in the show, you'll hear a conversation Michael and I had with Delegate Danica Roem. She's got a new book out this week. In fact, the publication date is tomorrow, or Tuesday, if you're listening to this later. The title of the book is, "Burn the Page: A True Story of Torching Doubts, Blazing Trails, and Igniting Change." Stick around for that. There's a lot that we unpack.

Lauren Burke

Can't wait to give that a listen.

Thomas Bowman

All right, let's do the news. This week, lawmakers are returning to Richmond for a Reconvene Session. They'll consider all of the Governor's vetoes, which they have the power to overturn with a super majority, but don't look for that to happen. It's very rare. One of the two dozen vetoes was of a bill that created a workgroup to examine juvenile justice. Some people argue, the juvenile justice services should be moved from Public Safety to Health and Human Resources. Lauren, what did you think about that bill and that veto?

Lauren Burke

You know, it is a really odd veto, in terms of the fact that Delegate Hope's bill, all it did was really set up a working group to talk about the idea of moving juvenile justice services. It wasn't as if it was some huge move. But you know, in the Governor and Governor Youngkin's veto notes, he did mention that the increase in crime is something that he was, apparently, concerned about and vetoed the bill. He also, oddly, I thought, put in there that he thought that delegates should just offer the bill that just made the move, and didn't have the study group. Now all these bills have study groups. And so the idea that you would just, you know, introduce a bill, and then change something, make some sort of major change, without a study, is, sort of, unheard of in Virginia state politics. So, that might be a reflection of the Governor not knowing what he's doing? I mean, it's sort of odd. It's also sort of looked as if the Governor was sort of saying to delegates, "Hey, just put together a bill that just makes the change." I mean, but you can't tell if he's indicating that or not, it's sort of out up there in the air.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, that's definitely not how the Virginia government works. We always like to look around and see what other people are doing before we jump off the deep end. And, you know, at the end of the day, it's supposed to be about doing the right thing for the kids, because most of the places were failing juveniles in the juvenile justice system, revolves around mental health, poverty, education, which are the domain of Health and Human Services.

Lauren Burke

Absolutely right, Thomas. And I would think that a study for this type of complex subject matter, obviously, studying that would be a good idea. And as you already mentioned, typically with bills like this, you look at what other states have done, whether it's succeeded, whether it's failed, you come back to see whether it'll work in the Commonwealth of Virginia and of course, that, ultimately, is the most important question.

Thomas Bowman

All right, let's move on. Also in the news, media organizations are filing suit to see tip line submissions from parents who have used some classroom instruction as objectionable. Lauren, what do you make of that lawsuit?

Lauren Burke

Yeah, what I make of that lawsuit is the Virginia FOIA laws are terrible, and good for these media organizations for getting together and doing what they're doing. Frankly, you know, these are things that the public should be able to see, we see almost every media organization that covers Virginia involved in this lawsuit, including NPR, VPM, Washington Post, Virginia Mercury, and the Richmond Times Dispatch, just to name a few. The FOIA laws in Virginia are difficult, even when journalists request very basic information. That should not be the case, it should not be this difficult. And, you know, it was the Governor who came up with this idea for the tip line. Okay, you've got the tip line, why is it a big secret? What what's on the tip line? Like, why can't people see what people are observing and what their suggestions are? It's not- it shouldn't be a big deal.

Thomas Bowman

You know, I have a sneaky suspicion that some of it is due to embarrassment out of the things that people are reporting, which may or may not be related to, actually, objectionable material. My understanding is that Gen Z Tiktok took over on this one.

Lauren Burke

That's absolutely right, Thomas. I have a feeling that that's the type of high comedy that Youngkin administration doesn't want anyone to see. But you know, either way, it's the type of thing that they set it up. It's a public line, and sort of, obviously, a new thing, a new policy. Did they think that nobody was going to file a FOIA request for that? Of course, somebody's going to file a FOIA request for that. So you know, it'll be interesting to see what happens next.

Thomas Bowman

And to explain the state of Virginia's FOIA laws, because we rank among the worst states for Sunshine laws, and the Executive, specifically, can really stand behind any excuse they want not to turn over the documents. And, historically, while this does get abused, some times, the government has been, at least, willing to give a legitimate reason, or a semi legitimate facade reason, for why they wouldn't do it. And they do turn over lots of material on the whole. But this is a little out of character, even for a state with such poor Sunshine laws.

Lauren Burke

Yeah, Thomas, you're being very polite. I mean, they can- the FOIA laws of Virginia are terrible. I mean, basically, you can slap Governor's working papers on anything, and give really no big reason for that. And as somebody who has been impressed and in politics and was FOIA other states, like, you know, Illinois, New York, it's amazing to me how quickly these other states, you know, respond, and get the information back in a very, very quick period of time.

Thomas Bowman

Well Lauren, I think you've got a few stories for me. What do you got?

Lauren Burke

Absolutely. Virginia Attorney General Jason Miyares is filing a brief in the U.S. Supreme Court, along with 15 other attorneys general, opposing an admission process at Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology that he calls, "discriminatory."

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, this was an issue that I actually got to work on when I was a staffer in the House of Delegates, because we represented South Fairfax County. And under the old system, there were no kids getting admitted to Thomas Jefferson High School from South Fairfax County, which if you know those communities along Route 1, there's a lot of minority communities, immigrants, and new- or new Americans, generally, returning citizens. That's also one of the parts of the county that has high poverty rates. So, the way they they were doing admissions, was entirely based off testing, and how test scores went, which sounds like a good, fair way to do it, until you understand that the people getting admitted to these, were the ones with structural advantages, like a parent who could stay home and read with them when they were young.

Lauren Burke

Absolutely, I- this is an emotional issue, to say the least, that every time it comes up, whether it be in a Virginia political debate, or on social media, it is a very emotional issue. Obviously, people's children, and teaching, and where they go to school, is a big deal. I don't know that we use testing for just admissions for anything, whether it's college or anything else. Usually, you know, you take a test, whether it's the LSAT, or anything else, but there's always some other thing that you have to do, right? Whether it's an interview, whether it's an essay, there's always something else. So it's not just your test score that gets you in. The other thing I would say is I think it does matter. I think diversity does matter, you know, in the school system. I think, you know, a lot of these schools, particularly on the college level, want there to be a diverse group of people. That's not something I know a lot of people agree with on these debates. They just want it to be that the the test score, and that is it. But really, if you're looking for a a sort of diverse group of folks to go to that high school, which, of course, is a publicly funded high school, I think there's an argument to be made, that we should strive for that. I don't think there's anything...nobody should be shy in saying that. Also, just knowing the history of Virginia, and education and how it's affected Black people, is just completely different. I mean, we go 350 years, leaving a group out of an equal education system, you can't expect that they're going to be, like equal to everybody else, suddenly, over just the last 60 years. I'm a kid that did go to a private school, private Catholic school. But my parents, you know, they paid for that. And there was a test, but there was also other things that got me, and it was essays, it was, also, other stipulations that got you into the school. To me, a public school, with public money, should have a view of some diversity for that school.

Thomas Bowman

There's definitely a lot more to unpack with this admissions case. All right, well, we have one last item before we take a commercial break. And that's listener mail, which is my favorite part. So on Twitter @JPbrown56 commented about our last show, "Great pod all. I learned a lot. Lobbyists and advocates are hugely influential, especially with part time legislators. We should all have a better understanding of how our system really works." Lauren, I'm curious, you used to work in the Lieutenant Governor's Office. What's your perspective on the lobbyists in Virginia, in a way that might be even different from a legislators perspective?

Lauren Burke

Yeah, that was an excellent pod. And you know, Chris Saxman, made, in particular, a few really good points about relationship building. I really thought he made a nice point with regard to talking to people you might not, necessarily, agree with, because lobbyists do tend to be on your policy side, you know, so you're like talking to people, and you're agreeing, and there's really no, quote, "lobbying," you're just sort of talking through the details of an issue of a piece of law, or a piece of legislation. But actually, I found it more interesting when people came by that we might not have agreed with. I remember having a meeting in the office, with regard to qualified immunity, and we had a bunch of law enforcement, came by. It was a very informative, very good meeting. And it helps you to learn the other perspectives on an issue, which I think is really important. And whether you agree or not, you should hear those, and really, you end up learning a lot. But lobbyists, as it was mentioned in that pod, are really important in Virginia, because we do have the term limitation on the governor. So a lot of these lobbyists, as you know, you know, outlive, and out career, the governor that we happen to have in the mansion in the Commonwealth.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah. And, you know, that was one of those interviews, where 10 minutes after we hang up, I thought of 10 better questions that I should have asked, and, and one of them was like, I kind of wish I had dug in a little bit more on the integrity piece, and always telling the truth. And how would a lobbyist rectify that? Specifically, a contract lobbyist, who gets paid to take a certain position on an issue? How do you rectify that with integrity being so important?

Lauren Burke

Yeah, it's, it's, uh, you know, what, what we find, though, is that when people come by, they understand that, you know just as much about the issue, a lot of times than they do, so they're not going to try to fool you. You know, they'll, they'll say, "Okay, well, look, these are the things that you may not like, and let's talk about those things." And so it's better to be candid about that, and just go into it, then sort of act like, you know, everybody's on the same page. And I don't know whether we can call it like, "integrity," but let's just- let's just get to the point of, of just saying, "These are the weaknesses, these are the strengths of this policy, and get on with it." And it is important to network and relationship build, which of course in Richmond happens, you know, so much of the time, after six and seven o'clock, and really get to know people. But yeah, as somebody who's also worked on the federal level, I found the Richmond experience to be a lot less contentious, you know, and often just a lot more fun, quite frankly.

Thomas Bowman

All right, well, let's take a break because we're all out of time for today. When we come back, we'll be joined by the author of, "Burn the Page," Delegate Danica Roem. We'll be right back.

Michael Pope

And we're back on Pod Virginia. We're joined by the author of a new book, "Burn the Page, A True Story of Torching Doubts, Blazing Trails and Igniting Change." She's returning to the podcast to tell us a little bit about the book and why she wrote it. Delegate Danica Roem, thanks for returning to the podcast.

Danica Roem

Thank you so much, Michael. It's so good to both be back with you and Thomas.

Thomas Bowman

Well, it's great to have you, Danica. Let's start with the title, "Burn the Page: A True Story of Torching Doubts, Blazing Trails, and Igniting Change." You packed a lot into that title. So, can you unpack some of that for the person listening? What does that all mean?

Danica Roem

Sure. So my original title of, "Transgender Delegate Writes Book," didn't get picked up by the publisher as a good idea. So, although, and this is true, I very much wanted that title, because I thought it was funny. And so when I was asked to write another one, my agent suggested, "Turn the Page," the classic Bob Seger song that was also covered by Metallica. And, instead, I went with, let's make it a little bit more metal, and make it something that's easily searchable, "Burn the Page." So that's how that came about. And the entire point, was to set fire to narratives you don't want to be in anymore based on other people telling your story for you. And it's, in essence, just about capturing your own narrative, and being vulnerable enough to be visible in your own skin, to tell people, "This is who I am." And the importance that comes with storytelling, you know. In the 10 and a half years I spent in newsrooms as a news reporter, and the four years I spent earning my journalism degree, we always heard the importance of, "Tell me a story." What I'm trying to get at, more than anything with this, is that, you, alone, know who you are, at your most deep, in your most authentic sense. And I think, especially, for LGBTQ people, this is very relatable. But I also think that, even if you're just good old fashioned cishet, just the way mom used to make them, well, then you can probably relate to this in some way, shape, or form, if you've ever been afraid of, you know, living your truth as well.

Michael Pope

So one of the features of your book is that you begin each chapter with a bit of opposition research against you, which is like a running theme of the book, opposition research against you. You even say that you considered having a page on your campaign website called, "The Dirt," which, ostensibly, would announce all of opposition research to the world. Your campaign team, smartly, talked you out of adding that to your campaign website. Danica Roem, why did you choose to publish so much of the opposition research against you in your own book?

Danica Roem

Because that was the contract that I signed. Aside from that, it was part of my pitch. And the reason it was part of my pitch was, I wanted to tell a story about flipping the script, about what it means to have people, you know, basically use those things that are perceived to be negative about you, in a way that's supposed to be hurtful, in a way that's supposed to attack you, in a way that's supposed to keep you down. How do you take all of those attacks that come against you? On the one hand, I did- some of those chapters have my own self opposition research, but others that I pulled from, were direct mail pieces that the Republican Party of Virginia sent out against me, that were authorized by the candidates running against me in 2017 and 2019. Some were from newspaper stories, like editorial, or even just like a Washington Post headline, that I love referring to, because it is so funny to me. And really just taking all the-

Michael Pope

Wait, what was the headline?

Danica Roem

Oh, that one was the one of, I'm going to paraphrase off the top my head, it was the, "Marshall Ad accuses Roem of lewd behavior in old video of her band." And-

Michael Pope

Why do you like that headline so much?

Danica Roem

It's objectively funny, Michael. How could you not laugh at that? I mean, like, that's hilarious. The guy who is the self described Chief Homophobe of Virginia, saying anything about my life, in terms of, "Oh my goodness, that's obscene." It was just like, you have to be kidding. But this is also, as I mentioned, in the book, I've used humor throughout my life, to deflect, you know, negativity, really. And as I talk about in, "Burn the Page," which is now out through Viking Books, I talk about the fact that it's like, look, I went through a lot of trauma as a kid where, you know, my dad killed himself when I was three years old in a very violent way. You know, my grandmother, who I lived with, you know, right after he died, she died of Parkinson's by the time I turned seven, you know, then there was all this stuff with my mom's ex from the early 90s, who has been out of her life since '96. Just, you know, there's a lot of stuff where I had to have coping mechanisms, and for me, humor, and being able to laugh at, you know, the absurdities of life. That, to me is so important. That's why, you know, stand up comedy has been a really important part of my life. So, you know, I think it's really important for, especially, in campaign world, to take a step back, take the job seriously, but don't take yourself as seriously, so that you can look at things that are supposed to be negative about you, and find a way to make it work for you instead, or, at the very least, have a laugh about it, and don't let it bring it down.

Michael Pope

Well, the book is very funny. And you've got lots of great lines in here. I'm going to read one of them that that stands out is a quote from you. "There's nothing like watching a television ad portraying me as a conceited whore, when I knew it was a total, an absolute lie. I am not conceded."

Danica Roem

That's right. That's right.

Thomas Bowman

We're going to circle back to your dad in a moment, but first, I want to talk to you about flipping the script. You've won your campaigns by hammering on local issues, while your opponents run against your gender identity and sexuality. There's a debate happening in the Democratic Party, right now, about the dominance of social issues in their messaging. What was your experience? And what lessons might that experience hold for Democratic candidates who need to win votes from people who disagree with the party's platform on LGBTQ rights and other social issues?

Danica Roem

Well, so to begin with, keep in mind, my platform, very much, you know, and go back to the first campaign, or, you know, I was talking about traffic, jobs, health care, schools, and equality, and making Virginia a more inclusive Commonwealth. That was very much part of my platform. And here in Northern Virginia, guess what, for anyone who lives in Northern Virginia, talking to some of y'all right now, this is some of the most diverse area of the entire country. And when I think about this, right now, I look at who my neighbors are, I think about the doors, I knock. And you know what a common theme is, they all get stuck in traffic, they all need quality, affordable health care, right, where your doctor gives you a prescription, your health insurance should be covering it. If you're hurt, you should be able to, you know, afford to get whatever your ailment is treated, or prevented in the first place. If your kids go to public school, you want your teachers to be well paid, and that you were welcomed here because of who you are, not despite it. Look, in 2017/2019, our Democratic candidates running on very pro inclusive equality messages, we won majorities in the State Senate, the State House, flipped a ton of local government seats. And then 2018 and 2020, we were winning big at the federal levels, too, with an inclusive message. What I do think is very important that I touched on in the book here, is that the way that we present this, and the way that we navigate the issues, themselves, it's got to be constituent service based. It's got to be what can we do to make lives better for people in a very holistic way, without excluding others. It's about bringing people in who haven't been in. People very much understand wanting to be included, and not wanting to be left out. And my inclusion shouldn't have to come at someone else's, you know, an entire demographics expense, it is simply saying, "Hey, I belong here, too. I have good ideas, too." And when we do it, right, we are creating that big tent by inviting the most number of people into it, as opposed to telling other people they don't belong.

Michael Pope

So one of the more difficult chapters of your life, that you spell out for readers, is the suicide of your father. At one point in the book, you even mentioned that, "child of suicide," doesn't, typically, end up in the bio section of a social media account, or on a resume, but it's clearly something that you think readers should know about. What should people come away with after reading about your father's suicide?

Danica Roem

You know, the first thing is that I wanted anyone who's experienced trauma, and loss, to feel that this is relatable for them, and that for some folks, you know, a transgender metalhead yogini, reporter, stepmom, vegetarian might not be the most relatable platform of identities in the world. But hey, I've gone through trauma, I've gone through loss, I know what it means to, you know, have to overcome obstacles in my life, in order to succeed. And I know what it means to have to grapple with a lot of life's questions that are absolutely irepairable, because the worst has happened. I think that is something that is very relatable for a lot of folks. And even if it's not, the concept of loss very much is, and so by being open and honest about that, and by telling that story, I wanted to invite people in, in that regard of saying like, "Hey, you know what, I might not be able to relate to all these other things in your life, but I do understand how grief, and how mourning, and how loss can shape someone's personality, and then can shape someone's public service." You know, kind of to quote a Tool song, you know, are to actually bastardize a Tool song, you know, "Pieces don't fit." Where do you go from here and where do you pick up? And the answer is, you will always have that God sized hole in your heart. But what you have to do, instead, is find another path to go forward on. You don't forget it at that point. And in fact, you try to look at that grief, not as a, you know, I don't want to say the word opportunity, per se, but really just, you have an option with that grief of saying, "Okay, what can I do to tell stories about this person? What can I do to tell stories about my relationship to loss, and maybe form a bond with other people who've gone through something similar?" Those bonds are the things that break across ideological lines, they break across party ID. And they are the sort of thing that people understand beyond politics.

Thomas Bowman

I found your authenticity powerful, and it makes, "Burn the Page," incredibly compelling and readable. I want to pivot now to a little bit lighter part of the book. At one point, you say, "Remind me to tell you about the time an older Republican colleague tried to save my soul outside the State Capitol." So okay, Delegate, we're reminding you, who was it and what happened?

Danica Roem

Well, I mentioned in the book, it was it was Delegable LaRock who came up to me in my freshman years, like, it was that March 2018. And he asked me to step outside for a, quote, "breath of fresh air." And he started, when I walked outside, he was telling me, you know, "God is listening." And you know, all this sort of stuff that I heard in Catholic school over 13 years, you know what I mean? And I remind him, "I went to Catholic school for 13 years, you're not going to tell me anything I haven't heard yet." And it was interesting with that was, I had expected more of that to happen when I first got there. And I was relatively surprised it only happened once, and from one person, which is what made it notable. But what also made that notable, is it was kind of a foreshadowing for what happened in 2020, when him and I debated on the House floor about Delegate Mark Levine's bill, that was going to add sexual orientation, gender identity, to about 70 different sections of code in Virginia. And, you know, he gave this like, eight some odd minutes speech where, you know, he was decrying, you know, not only the bill, but, basically, kind of making a martyr out of a teacher who is refusing to properly gender one of his students, right? And in about three and a half minutes, I stood up and went toe to toe with that, got a standing ovation, and we passed the bill on a bipartisan basis afterward. I think that what happened in 2018, definitely reinforced how I felt when I got into the majority, in that I didn't feel like I had to be quiet about how I felt anymore. I didn't have to keep walking on eggshells, like I had done for my first two years, because I was afraid of what would happen. And turned out, I was on the kill list for the first year anyway. And yet, the weirdest thing about the General Assembly is, you can be adamantly opposed to each other on so much, and then find yourselves voting along the same lines, as your own caucus members are voting differently from both of you. And that happened to me this year, in committee, where one of my bills, died on a tie vote, and he was actually voting with me, it was the weirdest thing, right? And I actually even said, I made a joke about that in my presentation of the bill, where I go, "In the political matchup of the year."

Thomas Bowman

As a coda to that, so evangelical Christianity was my first language. And it strikes me as odd when I hear your story from Delegate LaRock, and he's not the only person like this in the world, of course, and it makes me wonder, do you not understand that the Christian God is non binary?

Danica Roem

Well, you can ask him that. That's, you know, I'm not gonna assume too heavy that, but what I will very, very much say is that I think the best thing that we can do, instead of, necessarily, challenging each other's religious beliefs, is understand that, like I was saying before, death is coming for all of us. And that religion exists because of the great unknown about what happens after death, right? And that everyone who has certain beliefs that they believe it, because they believe it to be true, but there's only one way to find out for sure, and we'll all get there eventually. So in the meantime, let's you know, just try to be more inclusive. Let's try to understand that we are all in this together. And that when we clash, and it's going to happen, that we at least check in on each other at the end of the day. And at the same time, when you do have those irrevocable differences, sometimes you have to stand up and you have to make a point.

Michael Pope

So when you talk about your first campaign, you mentioned an anecdote where Republican Party Chairman John Whitbeck is on the Kojo Nandi Show, and they're talking about Tom Sherwood. It's like one of the Politics Hour segments, and Whitbeck laughs at the idea that you might actually beat Bob Marshall, uproariously laughs, like it's a joke. Now you say that moment, there on WAMU, offers a lesson for readers. What's the lesson?

Danica Roem

If there's a lesson to be had in that, it's don't believe your own headlines, right? And that summer in 2017, the Republican Party of Virginia absolutely believed their own headlines. They genuinely believed, "Look, Bob Marshall's been elected 13 times. He's not going to lose to this transgender metalhead from Manassas, it's not going to happen." They refused to believe it. After that election, and then after John's run for office, I like to think that what constitutes electability, can really depend on the candidate, and how well the candidate is willing to work, and how hard they are, and how much they relate to their district, not necessarily just based on ideology, or just on identity. Instead, it's like, I'm looking for candidates who work hard. And my job, now, as Executive Director of Merge Virginia, where my job is to recruit trained Democratic women to run for office, I'm looking for people who come from all sorts of different backgrounds, and I'm saying, "How hard are you willing to work? How hard are you willing to do what it takes to earn this? And remember that every day you're campaigning, you're earning it, and when you're in elected office, you were only there, so as long as the people think that you're doing a good job, so keep on earning it."

Michael Pope

Delegate Roem, where can people buy your book?

Danica Roem

You can buy my book at Penguinrandomhouse.com. You can google my name, it's spelled Danica, last name, Roem, type that in with, "Burn the Page," and you'll find it and that though, on the PRH website, you're going to see all the different options that you have. So that if you, you know prefer going through some of the big guys, those options are there. But if you also like supporting your Indie bookstores, those are there, as well. There's the audio book, and there's the ebook as well. And I will also be in Alexandria for a book launch party at Old Town Books at 7pm on April 28, which happens to be Michael Pope's hometown. Isn't that so cool?

Michael Pope

That's, actually, how I found out about your book, that the local bookstore, who is doing that, and I agree with you, support your local bookstores, was saying, "Hey, Delegate Roem has a new book, and she's going to be appearing at April 28." And I said, "You know what, I bet I can get Viking to send me an advanced copy," which they, gladly, did. So thank you so much for appearing on our show, Delegate Danica Roem, author of, "Burn the Page: A True Story of Torching Doubts, Blazing Trails, and Igniting Change," also known by, the alternative title, that she didn't get, "Transgender Delegate Writes Book," Danica Roem, thanks for joining us.

Danica Roem

Thank you, Michael. And thank you all so much to all y'all who helped me pass 32 bills over my two and a half terms so far, including nine this year. Super cool of you.

Michael Pope

Pod Virginia is a production of Jackleg Media. Our Producer is Aaryan Balu, our Social Media Manager is Emily Cottrell, and our Advertising Sales Manager is David O'Connell.

Thomas Bowman

Find us on Facebook or Twitter, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and hey, write a review on Apple Podcasts. It really helps people find the show.

Michael Pope

We'll be back next week with another episode of Pod Virginia.