No full episode this week, but Thomas and Michael want to wish you a happy Thanksgiving—and a quick discussion on the origins of the tradition.

Episode Transcript

Michael Pope

I'm Michael Pope.

Thomas Bowman

I'm Thomas Bowman.

Michael Pope

And this is Pod Virginia, which is taking a holiday for Thanksgiving. We'll be in your feed here with just a quick conversation about Thanksgiving and let you get back to eating. Do you have any traditions for Thanksgiving, Thomas? What do you normally eat?

Thomas Bowman

My Thanksgiving tradition starts with trying to decide which parent or step-parent, or in-law to actually spend Thanksgiving with.

Michael Pope

Republicans? Are you gonna spend the time with the Republicans, the Trumpers?

Thomas Bowman

I got to spread it equally. The first step to my Thanksgiving is that. Then depending on where I go, it might be the food. It might be the people that make up the tradition, but it's a lot of fun either way.

Michael Pope

Every time we get to Thanksgiving, I always think about the origin story of Thanksgiving and what people think the roots are. Thomas, what would you say most people think the history of Thanksgiving is all about?

Thomas Bowman

Well, that's a loaded question, Michael. I think what we were taught is that on Thanksgiving, a bunch of settlers were starving. A bunch of colonists were starving and didn't know how to survive that winter. The Indians show up, teach them how to farm, and then they have an abundant harvest and live happily ever after. And that's what we're all supposed to be thankful for.

Michael Pope

Yeah, well, that's certainly the myth that the Pilgrims held the first Thanksgiving in New England. But historians that have looked at this say that is not true. So take everything you think you know about Thanksgiving and throw it in the garbage can. Back in 2016, I had an opportunity to interview a great historian. Sadly, he's no longer with us, Michael Gannon. This is someone who had written about the history of Thanksgiving through his research on Florida history. Florida's history is very intense and very crazy. So Michael Gannon says the first Thanksgiving actually happened in Florida at St. Augustine in 1565. That was the first Thanksgiving in 1565. So Michael Gannon says the reason you think it happened in Massachusetts is a matter of public relations. So I got some audio from my conversation with him back in 2016. This is the late historian Michael Gannon explaining the myth of Thanksgiving.

Michael Gannon

It's a matter of ignorance and self-promotion. But the people in New England seized on everything that they wanted to just say they were the first, and of course, they weren't, but they gathered all the publicity and promoted themselves. From that day down to this.

Thomas Bowman

Don't trust a Yankee moral story.

Michael Pope

Those New Englanders, you got to look skeptically at New England. So you know, even Virginia has a claim to an earlier Thanksgiving than the pilgrims. You know, Virginia can claim a 1619 Thanksgiving. That's two years before Thanksgiving in Plymouth. So I mean, all this stuff about the pilgrims in New England having the first Thanksgiving is a marketing strategy. And this is historians interpreting things in a way to fit a certain kind of narrative.

Thomas Bowman

Also, it wasn't Florida. It wasn't Florida, a Spanish colony at the time. It was a Spanish colony. Yes. So this made it even say, well, it doesn't count because it's not they had to Thanksgiving, why would it not count? Well, it wasn't part of the English colonies, but it was we're in Virginia, which was an English colony. That's why it wouldn't count.

Michael Pope

St. Augustine is America now. Yeah. Well, if Thanksgiving happened in St. Augustine, which was Thanksgiving.

Thomas Bowman

It didn't happen in America happened in the British colonies.

Michael Pope

You could make the argument that Virginia would be the site of the oldest Thanksgiving.

Thomas Bowman

I think we just found two separate religions out of this and have them war for centuries.

Michael Pope

All right. Well, that's enough of this claptrap. Happy Thanksgiving.