A Snap Election, Proposed Corporate Tax Cuts, and Rethinking Criminal Justice Reform
IN THE NEWS:
Balacing the Books: Governor Glenn Youngkin does not get to write Virginia's budget, he does get to kick off the process by making the first pass, sending his suggestion to members of the General Assembly. Outlining his proposal to the House and Senate money committees. As Thomas and Michael discuss, the Governor's controversial proposal prioritizes tax cuts for businesses and the wealthy over addressing the state's unmet needs.
Law and Order: A majority of voters in Virginia say they feel safe, even after all the criminal-justice reform efforts in recent years. That's the conclusion of a new poll from Data for Progress, which asked about decriminalizing marijuana, prohibiting racial profiling in traffic stops and ending the death penalty. The poll shows that Virginia voters prioritize community safety over prisons and jails, demonstrating a shift away from tough on crime policies.
Behind the Scenes: The primary to snag the Democratic nomination for the congressional seat formerly held by the late Donald McEachin is tomorrow, and the race features Senator Jennifer McClellan and Senator Joe Morrissey. Until a few days ago, it also featured Delegate Lamont Bagby, but he unexpectedly dropped out of the race last week.
Trivia:
Before George Vanderbilt selected Asheville, NC to construct the Biltmore mansion, he also considered a site in VA. Where was that site?
What Richmond landmark because the temporary home and office for the governor after a 1925 fire nearly burned down the Executive Mansion?
Episode Transcript
Michael Pope
On this episode of Pod Virginia.
Thomas Bowman
Tax cuts for corporations.
Michael Pope
Reconsidering criminal justice reform.
Unknown Speaker
When you look at the poll results, it seems like both were just fine with that.
Thomas Bowman
And a snap election with crackle and pop.
Michael Pope
Plus, we play a round of trivia.
Thomas Bowman
You're listening to Pod Virginia. Stick around
Michael Pope
I'm Michael Pope.
Thomas Bowman
I'm Tom Bowman.
Michael Pope
And this is Pod Virginia, a podcast that will not be releasing NFTs of our Co-hosts as superheroes.
Thomas Bowman
Okay, well, I guess I'll just return your Christmas present, Michael.
Michael Pope
You know, if there was an NFT of me as a superhero, like how Donald Trump has his NFPs that cost $100. So you pay Pod Virginia $100. For like a JPEG image of me, what would it be as a superhero? And I'm thinking I could use my superhero powers to bust into a smoke-filled room, where you have government officials that are trying to redact documents, and I rescue the redacted documents and release them to the public. And this would be like my superhero, its action.
So Pod Virginia listeners could spend $100 for a JPEG image of that.
Thomas Bowman
I think we might want to discuss pricing a little further; Michael, let's get to the news.
Michael Pope
Balancing the books, Governor Glenn Youngkin does not get to write the budget for Virginia. But he does get the kick off the process by making the first pass, sending his suggestions to members of the General Assembly. This is the governor outlining his proposals to the House and Senate money committees last week.
Glenn Youngkin
It's time for more jobs, more opportunities, better education, safer communities, a transformed behavioral health system, and a smarter government. And when we bring it all together, Virginia can accelerate on all fronts.
Michael Pope
So the budget, of course, always has lots of stuff in it. So let's break this down a little bit. There's a lot of stuff in here that probably will be wildly popular. There are 450 million in here for site readiness. This is an economic development thing. I think Democrats and Republicans are gonna agree on that 100 million for teacher retention bonuses, 100 million to fix the ridiculous sewer system in Richmond that floods poop into the river every time it rains, and 50 million for lab schools; that's probably not going to be much as popular. And, of course, the big talking point here, the big thing that's grabbed everybody's attention, is $1 billion worth of tax cuts. This is tax cuts to individuals through income tax. He wants to lower the income tax rate for individuals and then, of course, huge corporate tax cuts. And that's got everybody's attention. And you got people like House Leader Don Scott says, unfortunately, the governor seems to be putting corporate profits above all.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, look, Governor Youngkin proposed budget prioritizes tax cuts for businesses and the wealthy, over addressing the state's unmet needs, and we have a lot of those unmet needs. Another problem with this budget is really that it lacks a clear strategy and message about what the state is trying to achieve with its tax structure, Michael, there are lots of unmet needs. We have a long list of them, and there's still economic uncertainty from the pandemic. So these are going to be controversial suggestions.
Michael Pope
Yeah, the $1 billion tax cut package is clearly going to be the most controversial. I saw some interesting stats from the Commonwealth Institute. They said if we cut a billion dollars out of the budget, what else could we do with that $1 billion? And they calculated that $1 billion could buy 1,100 school counselors, 1,200 school nurses, and 700 more instructors for students who are learning English. So that, you know, that would be an investment in Virginia School.s That probably would make things better, especially considering Virginia ranks 41st in state support for public education.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, and, Michael, I think it's really important to point out here that Democrats are actually calling this budget proposal a good starting point for negotiations, but that some of these elements, like when we need to find money and fund things, Well, having a 20% tax cut for corporations is just not the vibe to accomplish that. So that will be gone, right? You go from 6% to 5%. That's almost a 20% tax cut right there. So that is probably not going to happen. Democrats, I don't think, are interested in doing that because the long-term budget picture in this state historically has not had surpluses, but thanks to, you know, ten years, basically, of democratic governance, we finally got it.
Michael Pope
You know, I think from Youngkin's perspective, even if he doesn't get the tax cuts he's looking for, he can still say, you know, I tried to get these tax cuts. Republicans can go on the campaign trail and say, we wanted tax cuts. And so even if they don't get the $1 billion of tax cuts, politically, they think it's a win for them.
Thomas Bowman
Maybe the problem is that Glenn Youngkin is likely to be sharing a stage with a Republican governor who actually did pass tax cuts. So the easy rebuttal from somebody like DeSantis, or whoever that primary opponent might be in a presidential election for the Republicans, is gonna be like, well look, you tried to do tax cuts, but you failed, we actually did it. And, you know, and blah, blah, blah, you fill in the blank from here. So I don't really think anybody's going to be deciding who they vote for based on tax cuts in one state. Look, Youngkin's budget is a gift to the wealthy. It's not a plan for the people of Virginia. And instead of addressing the pressing needs of our communities, Youngkin's budget prioritizes corporate tax cuts over investing in your well-being, so while we've got a long list of these unmet needs, Youngkin's budget puts tax cuts for the wealthy ahead of addressing pressing issues.
Michael Pope
One more budget thing here before we move on is $12 million to demolish the Pocahontas building. Now, the Pocahontas building is not a grand luxury building. But it has a lot of sentimental value in terms of the fact that it was the sort of ad hoc General Assembly building for several years. And Thomas, the location of our early episodes. We recorded some of our earliest Pod Virginia episodes in that building. So I don't know what to think about that. But part of me is kind of sad to say goodbye to the Pocahontas building.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, and to be clear, the condition of the Pocahontas building is not nearly as bad as the old General Assembly Building, which is down, and we've got a new one getting ready to open. But the Pocahontas building is a really weird building. If you get off on the wrong side of the elevator bank, then you're on the wrong... it's two buildings that got connected. At one point, basically, that is what happened.
Michael Pope
It is very confusing. I frequently run up to people in the hallways who have no clue where they are or where they're going.
Thomas Bowman
And the staircases don't let you off on every single floor.
Michael Pope
Okay, you're talking me into the $12 billion to demolish it.
Thomas Bowman
I'm surprised it's only 12 million.
Michael Pope
Let's get to our next story. Law and order. A majority of Virginia voters say they feel safe even after all the criminal justice reform efforts in recent years. That's the conclusion of a new poll from data for progress, which asked about things like decriminalizing marijuana, prohibiting racial profiling in traffic stops, and ending the death penalty. Rob Poggenklass is the executive director of Justice Forward Virginia.
Rob Poggenklass
Virginia was on this tough-on-crime path from about 1994 to 2019. And suddenly, we had this big course correction in 2020 and 2021. And when you look at the poll results, it seems like folks were just fine with that, and they want to continue to see it happen.
Thomas Bowman
One of the questions in the poll was to voters agreed or disagreed with this statement, "the law should not second guess police officers as motivations for conducting traffic stops." 54% disagreed with that proposition, which is why Valerie Slater at Rise for Youth predicts Republican efforts to bring back pretextual policing are going to fail.
Valerie Slater
No one wants to be in fear that having an air freshener hanging from their rearview mirror could potentially land them with engagement police with police. And so for the police that has the ability to pull folks over for very minor and noncriminal reasons. No one is excited about going back to the days.
Michael Pope
Well, Republicans are certainly excited to see if they can repeal this thing. This debate over pretextual policing sounds kind of academic and wonky. If you ask most people about pretextual policing and they'll say What the hell are you talking about? But if you say, well, you know the police can pull you over if you have an air freshener dangling from your rearview mirror? They'll say what can they really do that? And yes, they could before this reform, but now, of course, they can't do that because of this criminal justice reform. That is going to be the biggest criminal justice debate that we're going to see in this upcoming session. Republicans are going to try to repeal that. But this poll shows that it's actually pretty popular.
Thomas Bowman
Yes and no, Michael, because it is popular, but it wasn't popular enough to prevent a bunch of Democrats from losing and including Terry McAuliffe. And the poll does highlight the importance of politicians prioritizing these evidence-informed criminal justice reforms, as voters are certainly more likely to support politicians that prioritize those reforms. But the reality is, Michael, this is primary bait. People don't change their votes based on these policies; they might change who they would vote for in the primary based on those policies. And that's a much narrower subset of the electorate.
Michael Pope
Well, you know, what I find really interesting in this last election cycle, the Republicans chose a closing argument of crime, crime is out of control, you're not safe, your neighborhoods not safe. And guess what? That failed. That argument did not win over voters. And so I mean, we're headed into a session where Republicans are going to say, you know, you're not safe, and we need to bring back pretextual policing. But the poll shows that it is actually popular, not wildly popular. 54% is not a huge margin, but it is a majority. Then you get into other parts of this poll that I find really interesting. 76% of people in this poll say they would rather see funding for crime prevention, rather than money for prisons and jails. So that's an interesting development, especially when you consider 73% of Republicans said they rather see funding for crime prevention programs rather than more money for prisons and jails. And then also 65% say they'd like to see more equity between prosecutors and public defenders. You ever every time I talk to public defenders, I can tell you they are overworked and underpaid. And that's a budget item, of course. But something to come out of this poll is that maybe we should see more money for public defenders.
Thomas Bowman
Yeah, this is gonna be one of those situations, Michael, where there's, it's not necessarily mutually exclusive. This could be a yes and situation. The conditions of prisons and jails absolutely need to be improved. And that does take more money. And where you spend that kind of money does matter. And there are some contractual obligations in the case of private prisons or whatnot to consider. So it's not clear when you just give money to prisons and jails because it may not go to what you are hoping it goes to, but also to prioritize community safety. Michael, I'm grateful to see Virginians reject the fear-mongering tactics of opponents to these reforms, and they're instead supporting evidence-based reforms that do keep communities safe. But I will note, Michael, that right now, nobody's passions are inflamed. So this poll, like all polls, is just a snapshot of where people are at the moment that it was taken. And in many elections, people's passions are inflamed. So I'm not saying enough to like change the outcome of an election; we've got a couple of years worth of recent history that shows that suggest people aren't going to change how they vote necessarily. But when people are fired up about a specific issue, and their passions are inflamed, those numbers might look a little bit different than when people are not having their passions inflamed on this issue right now.
Michael Pope
Well, this poll was taken before the election when Republicans were, you know, enunciating their closing argument of rising crime.
Thomas Bowman
But we're on state issues now. And that was obviously a federal electorate poll. So I mean, I would be very curious to have this poll get done again in September or October next year.
Michael Pope
Okay, Data for Progress, hopefully, you're listening. So hey, Thomas, do you remember when we had artificial intelligence? Give us suggestions about things that we should talk about on the podcast.
Thomas Bowman
No, when was that?
Michael Pope
Well, one of the things they said that we should do is a behind-the-scenes so let's go to our behind-the-scenes segment. Snap election with crackle and pop. So the primary to snag the Democratic nomination for the congressional seat held by Donald McEachin is tomorrow. And so that primary feature is Senator Jennifer McClellan and Senator Joe Morrissey now until a few days ago. It also featured Delegate Lamont Bagby, but he unexpectedly dropped out of the race last week. So it seems like there was a lot of tension inside the Democratic Party between the McClellan crowd and the Bagby crowd. And that was created, you know, a lot of uneasiness that they were both running for this seat. What do you think led to Delegate Bagby's decision to unexpectedly drop out of this race?
Thomas Bowman
Well, Delegate Bagby himself was very clear about the reason for that. And recently covered in Axios, is where I saw it. But Delegate Bagby quite plainly said that his decision to run caused a tough split in the party, which also made someone like Joe Morrissey more likely to win. And it was a distraction. So Jennifer McClellan clearly had the support. He likely called around, and some of the people he thought would be easy supporters in his column were telling him no, or they were for Jen or whatever. And that definitely tracks is that this conversation that they would be having behind the scenes in the background is got a lot to do with Delegate Badby and Senator Jennifer McClellan, not wanting to cause distractions because we still have a session, right? We're gonna have a special election on Tuesday, the day after this comes out. But the general election doesn't happen until February. So we've got an entire legislative General Assembly session to get through. And this would be a huge distraction. It also would make Joe Morrissey more likely to win, although I still would have found that very narrow. The other explanation is that Bagby being another male in the race, the males could split each other's votes, and Jennifer McClellan would take it, or of course, the Black Caucus, because Babgby's chairman of the Black Caucus would be worried that having two black people in the race would split the vote and Jim Morrissey would get elected. So there are a lot of considerations and scheming and machinations that happen. And those aren't all bad things, by the way.
Michael Pope
Let me add some more behind-the-scenes scheming and machinations. Before Bagby made his decision to drop out of the race, a lot of Democratic House Democrats were talking about Jeff Bourne, possibly running for the seat that McClellan would vacate. So in the scenario where McClellan wins the special election and goes to Congress, vacates the Senate seat. So Jeff Bourne gets an exit out of this tricky three-way race that he's currently in with Don Adams and Betsy Carr. So it's a way for Jeff Bourne to not have to deal with this three-way race that he's currently involved in and run in the special election for the Senate. However, now that Bagby is not running for Congress do you think he might be interested in that Senate seat?
Thomas Bowman
I have no idea. If you are truly following in the footsteps of Don McEachin, Don McEachin, of course, was the house Chair of the Legislative Black Caucus. Also, Senator McClellan has his former Senate seat. And then, of course, districts are brand new and redrawn. And so Bagby, who is now chair of the Black Caucus, could also run for Senate following Don McEachin's footsteps if McClellan's Senate seat opens up. I don't know what's likely or not likely. Michael Bagby has an easy reelect now from the primary and the general if you wanted to stay on his Delegate, and you're right; there is a really tight three-way race. But by the design of this system, and this will be controversial for some of our listeners, the system that we're in, Michael, is designed so that everybody can be replaceable. It can function if we lose in a three-way primary Bourne, Carr, or Don Adams. We're going to lose two of those people. And the system is designed to continue, and it will be just fine. And it has been for the last 400 years of Virginia's history.
Michael Pope
All right, so that was the discussion that AI told us we should have. It also made a suggestion that we should talk trivia, so let's get to that. All right, so let's talk trivia, Thomas. Give us some give us political trivia questions.
Thomas Bowman
All right. Well, this isn't really political, but this is Virginia. So you're familiar with the Biltmore, right, the Biltmore mansion?
Michael Pope
Kind of what's the Biltmore mansion?
Thomas Bowman
All right. It's like the largest private home in the United States of America. It's got like 200 rooms, swimming pools, like multiple levels of basements.
Michael Pope
Oh, this is the one in North Carolina. Right.
Thomas Bowman
In Asheville. Yeah, so it's huge. Right. So before George Vanderbilt selected Asheville, North Carolina, to construct the Biltmore mansion. He also considered a site in Virginia First; where was that site?
Michael Pope
Well, if I were a super wealthy person, and I was building a mansion, I would pick, Um, let me see here, Alexandria!
Thomas Bowman
Is that the same place you would put the third capital of Virginia?
Michael Pope
You know what? I didn't mention this last week, but I've listened to the podcast. I am kicking myself for not mentioning that there is a building in Old Town Alexandria that actually served as the capital of occupied Virginia during the Civil War. And the same building also served as the first capital of West Virginia. So actually, Old Town Alexandria has a building that has served as the capital of Virginia.
Thomas Bowman
Interesting. Well, we should definitely get back to that because I was not aware of that fact, Michael. But no, it was not Alexandria. George Vanderbilt almost considered Burke's garden in Tazwell, Virginia, also known as God's Thumbprint. And it is beautiful. I've been there myself, and you have panoramic 365-degree views of mountains all around you because you have to go up, and it's, it's basically a depression inside a giant mountain, almost like a volcanic crater. But it is very. It's fertile. It's green. They've got rare birds, they've got animals, it's great for any kind of natural activity, you'd want to do the fishing, hunting, all that stuff.
Michael Pope
God's Thumbprint is a really interesting name. Yeah, I mean, perhaps we could record a future episode of the podcast out there in Vanderbilt's first choice.
Thomas Bowman
Well, you may not have any internet. So if you ever wanted to get some like Amish pies, it was a general store right there.
Michael Pope
That sounds good. Definitely, we should check that out. All right. Well, my trivia question is about the massive fire in 1925. That almost burned down the Executive Mansion. Now this fire at the Executive Mansion started when the five-year-old son of the governor at the time, a guy by the name of Elbert Trinkle, so the five-year-old son of Governor Trinkle accidentally set fire to the Christmas tree with a sparkler that was given to him by the mansions butler. So this time of year, you want to keep in mind Christmas trees are, you know, highly flammable. These are trees that we chopped down and brought into the inside of our house and put lights on them. So the Christmas tree caught on fire because the five-year-old son and the house almost burned down. So when newly elected governor Harry Bryd was inaugurated, he could not live in the Executive Mansion and conduct his business there. So here's the trivia question what Richmond landmark became the temporary home and office for the governor of Virginia in the 1920s?
Thomas Bowman
Oh. The 1920s.
Michael Pope
I'll give you a hint. It is a building that is still around, and you might have even been in it.
Thomas Bowman
Huh? Was it? Old City Hall?
Michael Pope
That's a good guess. But no, it is the Jefferson hotel.
Thomas Bowman
I almost guessed the Jefferson, dammit.
Michael Pope
That Spanish Baroque landmark luxury hotel in West Franklin Street. So don't book a room just yet, Thomas, because if you want to stay there, it costs about $400 a night. I recently checked out the restaurant there, Lemaire, and so if you order aside Caesar salad, that's gonna set you back like $15. And don't even think about ordering the beef tenderloin at the Jefferson Hotel. That's like $55. But so it's still a luxury, even today. But back in the 1920s, that was where Governor Byrd actually did all of his business and, you know, met all the Cabinet officials, and you know, his family lived there at the Jefferson hotel, it was essentially the executive mansion for a brief period of time, the 1920s.
Thomas Bowman
That's fantastic. I was just there, and I didn't know anything about that history.
Michael Pope
And you know, if you want to know more about that, there is a book that actually makes great Christmas presents called the Bryd machine in Virginia. Check it out on amazon.com and buy it for all of your friends and relatives.
Thomas Bowman
Michael, I went on to Virginia places.org to try to find out more about this 1926 fire.
Michael Pope
'25.
Thomas Bowman
Oh, the first floor was reconstructed after the 1926 fire, is what this says; '25 doesn't matter. Either way, though. It says the governor was away, but his wife realized after escaping the house that their 15-year-old son was asleep upstairs. She raised inside up the steps, suffered second-degree burns on her arms and legs, and then got trapped in there with her teenage son, but thankfully the fire department was able to get her out. But they were 10 feet too short with their ladders. So she had to climb outside the window ledge and was dropped into the arms of a fireman who caught her and broke his shoulder in the process. And then the 15-year-old then fell safely into the arms of that Butler. That sounds dramatic. Also destroyed in the fire was a Stradivarius violin.
Michael Pope
The fire itself was highly dramatic because you just as you just laid out some of the details there and almost burnt the executive mansion to the ground. Virginia actually has the oldest executive or governor's mansion in the continental United States. And it's really something that man, like, there are all kinds of historical paintings and objects, and to have a lot of that stuff burned down to the fire was a real tragedy and almost became a human tragedy. But fortunately, everybody survived.
Thomas Bowman
This is a great place to leave it. Thanks for listening, and happy birthday to Delegate Lamont Bagby and Clerk of the Senate Susan Sharp. Bagby and Sharp both have a birthday this Week on Wednesday. So please take a minute to wish them happy birthdays if you see them this week. Michael, it's also your birthday coming up, right?
Michael Pope
Last Week.
Thomas Bowman
Oh, it was last week? Ah dammit. We should have mentioned it. Well, never mind that.
