IN THE NEWS:

During the pandemic, election officials started making ballot drop boxes available to make voting easier. Now those drop boxes are an object of suspicion. Voting advocates say the recent updates to election laws make Virginia a leader in easy and convenient voting, despite its past history of voter restriction.

The cost of maintaining a line of communication to people behind bars in Virginia prisons can be burdensome for many families. Companies that provide vending services for telecommunications contracts make millions of dollars while the families of people who are incarcerated suffer.

At the Watercooler:

• Alexsis Rodgers is running for the seat that will be vacated by Senator Jennifer McClellan when she is elected to Congress on Feb. 21

• Democrats have a blue wall that is standing in the way of any changes to abortion rights. Last week, a Senate subcommittee rejected a 15-week ban, a 24-week ban and a total ban. Plus they rejected a resolution saying life begins at conception.

• Delegate Danica Roem and Senator Chap Petersen are working together to keep data centers out of Prince William County. They say these things are a drain on the power grid, a serious problem for stormwater management and an eyesore next to Civil War battlefields.

• In his State of the Commonwealth Address, the governor talked about throwing the book at people who witness an overdose. The idea is to go after drug dealers. But the way it would actually work is that people won't call for help because they’ll be afraid of being charged with felony murder.

Trivia: How many Indian tribes does Virginia have?

Episode Transcript

Michael Pope 

On this episode of Pod Virginia.

Thomas Bowman 

Electioneering. In the Commonwealth.

Michael Pope 

Making calls from prison.

Thomas Bowman 

Plus, we're going to read your tweets and play a round of trivia.

Michael Pope 

You are listening to Pod Virginia stick around.

I'm Michael Pope.

Thomas Bowman 

I'm Tom Bowman.

Michael Pope 

And this is Pod Virginia, a podcast that's getting ready for its debut on C-SPAN. Thomas, do you watch a lot of C-SPANs?

Thomas Bowman 

Sometimes, but wait, what are you talking about? What's going on here?

Michael Pope 

You may recall last week; I gave a speech to the Virginia Historical Society at the Virginia Museum of History and Culture on Arthur Ashe Boulevard in Richmond. Well, guess who was there to record the event and broadcast C-SPAN? If you missed the speech, you will be able to watch it on C-SPAN, which I am super jazzed about. In this line of work that I do, I have the opportunity to every now and then meet a famous person. Sometimes they're very famous. But there's only been one person that I've ever met in my time as a journalist that I stopped what I was doing and ran over there and took a selfie with this person. And that's Brian Lamb, the head guy, and C-SPAN. So being on C span is like a dream come true for me, especially since my speech to the Virginia Historical Society at the Virginia Museum of History and Culture about the Byrd machine is going to be one hour on C-SPAN. So stay tuned for details about when you are going to be able to watch it and tune in.

Thomas Bowman 

The real question is, Were they able to get crowd shots like on the reality show of the floor of the House chamber?

Michael Pope 

That's a really good question. I don't know what kind of footage C-SPAN had, but they had more than one camera there. So hopefully, they did get some audience reaction.

Thomas Bowman 

We're gonna have to tune in to find out, I guess.

Michael Pope 

Well, let's get the news. Rock the Vote. Now during the pandemic, election officials started making ballot drop boxes available so voting would be easier. Now those drop boxes are objects of suspicion. Check out this exchange between Democratic State Senator Jennifer Boysko and Republican Senator Amanda Chase who introduced a bill outlawing drop boxes. The interchange here is really interesting because you'll hear Senator Chase explain why she wants to get rid of drop boxes, and then Boysko hits her up with a trick question. So check this out.

Amanda Chase 

These boxes have created a lot of consternation among Virginians. And with that, I would move would pass this bill.

Thomas Bowman 

Yes, Mr. Chairman, I have a question for the patron. Are you familiar with mailboxes?

Amanda Chase 

I'm dumbfounded by your question. Of course. I'm familiar with mailboxes.

Thomas Bowman 

And can you tell me how you use a mailbox?

Amanda Chase 

Actually, I use a post office box because I don't trust the mail service. I don't trust my mailbox.

Thomas Bowman 

Voting advocates say the recent updates to election laws make Virginia a leader in easy and convenient voting. So despite its past history of voter restrictions. Listen to Senator Jennifer McClellan, who's currently running for Congress in a special election.

Jennifer McClellan 

The vast majority of people could pay payroll taxes my father had to pay them. That makes me and everybody else who has had a family member to had to jump through hoop after hoop after hoop that wasn't a big deal for other people. Very sensitive to measures that are going to put barriers in the way of casting a fundamental right.

Michael Pope 

So this Senate committee here, the Senate Privileges and Elections Committee, has already rejected every effort to roll back any part of voting in Virginia. So the Senate committee rejected a requirement for photo ID. The committee rejected limiting the number of days of early voting from 45 days to seven days rejected. The committee rejected prohibiting drop boxes. You heard the exchange there between Amanda Chase and Jennifer Boysko. The committee got rejected chases Bill prohibiting drop boxes. There was also some discussion about a forensic audit of the 2020 election. Nobody wants a forensic audit of the 2021 election; I don't know why that's the case. Maybe they liked the outcome. But people don't like the outcome of the 2020 election and want a forensic audit of it that was rejected. Also, eliminating the permanent absentee list that was rejected. Thomas, there's an interesting thing to look at for the future. You may remember Ben Tribbett was on the show; he predicted Republicans would eventually change their mind about this permanent absentee list. Because after they lose the election, after election after election, somebody's going to say, there's something's going on with this list here where Republicans are not getting ballots, but Democrats are getting ballots; because of the way this, the way people perceive the permanent absentee list. But for now, all of those potential changes to voting have been rejected by the Senate Committee that will continue to reject them, even when House Republicans send over bills after crossover.

Thomas Bowman 

That's right, Michael. And that's gonna be a theme of this session. So the Senate's talking about the blue wall that they've got against all of these kinds of measures and some other ones that will be talked about this session. And, of course, the House has its own red wall; all of the Democratic messaging bills will go and die there in that chamber. But Ben made a great point. And I think my response was, you know, play stupid games and win stupid prizes. That's what happened in Virginia Beach when Aaron Rouse won because of the mail and absentee ballot vote. That's just the first time, but it won't be the last time we see permanent absentee lists really making a difference. And Republicans have a choice because they're not going to pass their agenda. By the way, they shouldn't be passing their agenda because their voters really benefit from absentee voting. You know, this is often generational, or at least historically, this has been generational and doesn't inherently benefit one party or another, but often benefits older people who weren't able to leave their House. And there are plenty of other examples of groups that also benefit from it. But that was the traditional mainstream demographic here that used absentee voting. So Republicans are going to have to change their tune; they don't have another choice. But you know, as long as they're not going to, they're going to keep learning these lessons the hard way. And I think back to, like, that SpongeBob episode, where they're like, beating up on some guy and like, how many times are we gonna have to teach you this lesson, old man? Do you even know what I'm talking about, Michael?

I have no clue what you're talking about. But returning to the Senate Committee. It is really interesting that, for now, the Republican strategy is eliminating the permanent absentee list. So that that's their reaction to this right now is let's stop this from happening. Well, they're never going to win that argument. As long as Democrats are controlled by the Senate, they might, at some point in the future, change their perspective to say, if you can't beat them, join them. And I think Ben Tribbett predicted they would eventually get to that point where they say if you can't beat them, join them. For now. They're still trying to beat them.

We've got a pretty clear roadmap from other states. Other states have done this. The permanent absentee list is a step toward 100% mail-in voting. Oregon, for example, comes to mind. I'm not saying Virginia is going to be like Oregon anytime soon. I think that'd be pretty foolish to assert. But as far as what comes next, that will be the natural evolution is everybody's going to love permanent absentees like I do when they're on the list. There's going to be a hybrid option for a while where you can vote permanent absentee, or you can bring it in person to wherever your polling location is, if that's your bag, and you like that. Eventually, we're going to phase out into some kind of digital absentee vote, and who knows how long that'll take. But there's a pretty clear trajectory here of the way things are going, and the Republican Party faces a pretty steep demographic cliff. They can either get on board, or they can wait for 10-20 years, and there won't be any of those voters left.

Michael Pope 

Well, for now, their strategy seems to be to win elections, take control of the General Assembly, and roll back these voting measures to what it was like before 2020. We'll have to see who wins that argument and the election later this year. Moving on to our next story. Calling home so the cost of maintaining a line of communication to people behind bars in Virginia prisons can be crippling for many families. Ben Knotts at Americans for Prosperity says the captive market is not working.

Ben Knotts 

What wouldn't you do to speak with your son? What wouldn't you do to speak to your daughter? A lady in my church her daughter recently passed away, and she said, I'm so glad I got my credit card to pay to talk to her when she was in prison. That is what we're talking about.

Thomas Bowman 

Companies that provide vending services for telecoms contracts make millions of dollars. At the same time, the families of people who are incarcerated are the ones paying the bills. Santia Nance is co-founder of Sistas in Prison Reform.

Santa Nance 

They're paying hundreds of dollars to hear the voices of their loved ones. To see them on some really bad internet screen just for 40 minutes, having to choose between the carton of eggs that they might get and just getting to see them for an hour.

Michael Pope 

This is a really important story here in terms of the health, the mental health of people who are incarcerated in Virginia prisons. Their relationships with their families, their relationships, and their communities. Is it ethical to hit them up for like $15 for a telephone conversation that lasts 15 minutes? A lot of people would say that's unethical and wrong and counterproductive to the family lives in a way that only benefits these third-party vendors who get corrupt contracts from people who run the prison system in Virginia. And they're all getting rich while these families are suffering. So that's what we're talking about here with this potential legislation introduced by Senator Jennifer Boysko that would require prisons to offer free telephone calls for people who are incarcerated.

Thomas Bowman 

I'm glad that we can agree with Americans for Prosperity on this issue. It is absolutely nuts that this is the status quo. And we mentioned in our episode with Ben Knotts that one of the things that they're going to have to address is that the Constitution, the 13th Amendment, has a loophole for people who are in prison; they're still eligible for slavery. And that is absolutely unconscionable. I will say, though, I find it really fascinating that this about-face on criminal justice reform and finding their conscience really comes only after the Department of Justice is breathing down the necks of all the MAGA Republicans they helped elevate.

Michael Pope 

You've gotta give Americans for Prosperity credit here for a position. They are taking the right position now, which is the important part they're supporting. Jennifer Bo goes bill. You know who else was at that press conference was Senator Chap Peterson, who is offering the budget amendment. So so, we've got Boysko working the policy angle of this, and we've got Peterson working the money angle of this. There will be a cost to state taxpayers because we're talking about state prisons here. Somebody's got to pay for this. And Chap Peterson is trying to figure out a way to shepherd this through the budget process. Even if the voice goes bill fails in committee, there is still the possibility that Senator Peterson's budget amendment might make this policy through the budget.

Thomas Bowman 

Yeah, and there's so much to unpack, Michael, when it comes to opportunities for reforming our injustice system. I think, for example, about procurement. Virginia's procurement law has a weird, weird line in it that says something to the effect of if the Department of Corrections makes something like a license plate or office furniture, Virginia has to get it from the Department of Corrections. So that makes it impossible for private businesses and small businesses to compete against a bunch of people who are caught up in prison, making 22 cents an hour. That's it. That's all they get. Of course, that's not the value of those contracts; the rest of that money is just going straight into the private prison pockets. This is not how a healthy and free market economy is supposed to work.

Michael Pope 

This is actually a really important point about the captive market. I mean, we're talking about captive people who are in prison, right? I mean, this is the captive market. They've got no alternative. It's not like they can say I don't like AT&T; I'm gonna go with Sprint. They've got one vendor that they've got to deal with. Yeah,

Thomas Bowman 

Well, I'm glad that they're aboard, and hopefully, we can make some real progress, Finally, on this issue.

Michael Pope 

All right, let's get to some trivia. All right, so last week, we asked you about the Create Mission of the Virginia State Senate. So Thomas, what was the Senate created?

Thomas Bowman 

I thought I knew, and I was wrong. I thought I remembered it being much later in the 20th century. But it turns out you were able to correct me, Michael. So what was it?

Michael Pope 

Now you do have some history working in the House as a staffer, and there is this longtime house Senate rivalry. So if you're in the House, and you want to trash talk the Senate, which is what I would imagine they spend most of their time doing. You would try to say bad things about them. So the reality is the Virginia State Senate is a much newer creature. So the House dates back like 400 years, the Senate dates back like 200 years. The creation of the state senate was in 1776. The Senate was created by the Constitution of 1776, which called for a Senate with 24 members and 1/4 to be elected each year. A fun fact about the original version of the Senate is that the senators could not propose legislation; they could only make amendments to bills that came out of the House. Which, by the way, is really interesting because that's exactly how the House of Lords works over in the British Parliament. They cannot originate anything in the House of Lords. They can only make changes or amendments to stuff that comes over from the House. So that's what they thought when they created the original version of the Senate in 1776.

Thomas Bowman 

Can you imagine if Scott Surovell was prohibited from introducing legislation?

Michael Pope 

Or Jennifer Boysko. We would not be talking about this bill that we just talked about with telecommunications contracts because Senate Jennifer Boyko would not be allowed to introduce any legislation.

Thomas Bowman 

Well, I mentioned Scott Surovell, who is listening right now to this because he used to introduce, like, 50 bills, and they actually had to put a bill limit to deal with that. And so I don't know what it is now.

Michael Pope 

I think Alfonso Lopez is kind of guilty of that, too.

Thomas Bowman 

They all go through their phases. All right, so I've got an idea for our next trivia.

Michael Pope 

Okay. What's our trivia question for next week?

Thomas Bowman 

I've got our next trivia question, Michael. So how many Native American tribes does Virginia recognize at the state level?

Michael Pope 

Well, if you've got an answer to that, hit us up on social media; you can post to Twitter or any of the social media accounts that we've got. We'd love to hear from you. And we will be reading your responses on the air. All right, well, let's head over to the water cooler. Thomas, what's the latest you hear about the water cooler?

Thomas Bowman 

All right, a quick follow-up to some of the gossip we had two weeks ago. So Alexis Rodgers is indeed running for the seat that Jennifer McClellan will vacate once she's elected to Congress on February 21. We've also got Lamont Bagby, who has said he would run, and there are two other people in the mix, Delegate Don Adams. And Jeff Bourne is also considering a run.

Michael Pope 

That's a crazy primary.

Thomas Bowman 

It is, but if you think about it, Adams and born are in a tough spot; they're damned if they do and damned if they don't because they don't run for State Senate. They've got a really tough three-way primary themselves and Betsy Carr in the House of Delegates. And Betsy Carr has not indicated that she's interested in leaving right now. And it's my understanding that it's a very friendly district for Betsy Carr to win re-election.

Michael Pope 

Another really interesting quirk here is that we're talking about the unexpired term for the rest of Jennifer McClellan's term in office, which is basically the rest of this calendar year; it doesn't really extend into 2024 at all. So whoever gets elected to this position is going to immediately have to run for re-election. And so if this is a short term, or that person is really only going to be around for, like, the veto session, and any kind of special election that comes up in the remainder of the calendar year 2023. But then, whoever it is, is going to have to run for re-election, like immediately. Yeah, like, while they're doing the special election, basically.

Thomas Bowman 

Sounds like an expensive lifestyle. All right. We mentioned earlier about the Democrat's blue wall in the Senate, standing in the way of any changes to abortion rights. Last week a Senate subcommittee rejected a 15-week ban, a 24-week ban, and a total ban on abortion. Plus, they rejected a resolution saying that life began at conception.

Michael Pope 

You mentioned earlier in the show when we were talking about voting rights and Republican efforts to peel back voting rights. This is a theme, the blue wall vs. the red wall. And Democrats in the Senate are going to be rejecting a lot of the stuff that Republicans in the House throw at them. Including changes to elections and any change on abortion. If you talk to people on either side of this issue, Republicans that want to roll back abortion rights don't really feel like much is going to happen. And then people in favor of abortion rights also don't think that much is going to happen. Although they are worried after that Senate subcommittee rejected the 15-week ban and rejected the 24-week ban and rejected the total ban, and rejected the resolution that began said life begins at conception, it was a very long subcommittee meeting. After it was over, I met up with RaeAnn Pickett from Planned Parenthood at Sefton Coffee Company on Eight st, And so I asked her what was next in this fight. The

RaeAnn Pickett 

The ultimate goal of all of these bills is to ban abortion. The other side will not stop with abortion rights. We know that LGBTQ+ rights are under attack, and trans kids are under attack. And so we just cannot afford to be complacent at all.

Michael Pope 

Yeah, so nobody's expecting much action. But at the same time, this is not a time for complacency for anybody on any side of this issue.

Thomas Bowman 

And listeners to Pod Virginia know that this session is going to be all messaging bills, and all the messaging bills are gonna die. So there's going to be a lot of emotion and wailing and gnashing of teeth and a lot of high visibility news stories that might come out as far as the will they won't they, and the procedural stuff, But the reality is, in a divided government like this, very little of substantive change ever even occurs. Whether it's this issue or another issue, it does elevate the stakes for the elections themselves, and who controls which chambers to at least keep what you got and don't lose the other chamber. Also, you could pass everything you want. If you control both chambers and then a Republican Governor is going to (if you're the Democratic Party), the Republican Governor is going to veto everything. So unless you have two-thirds of the chambers to override a veto, you're still not really going to get any substantive policy accomplished. Unfortunately, we're in a political environment where you need all three branches of government. By the way, when the Democrats had the legislature and the executive, the Virginia Supreme Court was populated by mostly Republican appointees. So what about you, Michael? What's the latest you hear around the water cooler?

Michael Pope 

Data centers, so there was a really interesting press conference I went to last week with Delegate Danica Roem and Senator Chap Petersen. They're working together on a bill to keep data centers out of Prince William County. They say these things are a drain on the power grid, They're a serious problem for stormwater management, and they're an eyesore being next to Civil War battlefields. One of the proposals that we're talking about here, Prince William County, is actually adjacent to a Civil War battlefield. There's no barrier at all; there's no buffer. It's like literally next to the Civil War battlefield. So Roem and Peterson are working on legislation to put new requirements on data centers to pull back a little bit and stop their expansion from Loudoun and Prince William. For things like stormwater runoff or proximity to a Civil War battlefield. The bottom line here is both Delegate Roem and Senator Peterson are saying, "not in my backyard."

Thomas Bowman 

Yeah, Michael, I'm gonna set aside Peterson's point about Civil War battlefields and viewsheds, as that's a little subjective. But there are some fundamental physics and bottom-line reasons that these data centers are going in Northern Virginia and nowhere else. Access to pre-existing fiber optic networks. You want really high-speed internet, and that's not available, as we know, all over the Commonwealth. NoVA has got a really dense network infrastructure. That's what those data centers require. Also, proximity to population centers, right? You need the customers that are going to use them. And large businesses, government agencies, those who serve as government agencies, and the financial world that's going on the east coast of the United States that's going near DC, and they're going to be they need to be close to their users and customers. And then I also mentioned the government, right? So NoVA has got all those government agencies and non-disclosed agencies still and contractors, making it the only real location choice for those data centers. And they like Northern Virginia for the same people that the people who move to Northern Virginia like it, the proximity to all of those things. And Michael, another thing I'll point out is that the companies who build those data centers, Amazon, Facebook, Google, etc. They often demand that the electricity supplying those data centers come from renewable sources. So that's actually been a key driver for the company like Dominion making a push for renewable energy. It's not just because advocates wanted and it's not just because of climate change and stopping that but because they're big customers, Amazon, et cetera, Walmart, they all want renewable energy, and they're pulling those kinds of strength.

Michael Pope 

So you said the view shed from the Civil War battlefields is subjective. But one of the proposals that we're talking about here is adjacent to the Manassas battlefield like there is no buffer right next to the field.

Thomas Bowman 

That's an artifact of there not being all that much greenfield development opportunity left in Northern Virginia, but you can do it right there. And that keeps a lot of the cost down if you can do it on greenfield development. Granted, brownfield development is preferred by a lot more people for other reasons because it's less disruptive. But if you're a developer, you want a place where you've got effectively raw land to play with.

Michael Pope 

One more topic that I hear about around the water cooler is cracking down on drug dealers. So you may remember in the Governor State of the Commonwealth address, he talked about throwing the book at people who witnessed an overdose. This was the part of the speech when he said send me a bill that Governor Northam vetoed, and I'll sign it. The idea, in theory, is going after drug dealers. But so the way it would actually work is that you would be able to charge somebody felony homicide if they witness a drug overdose. Thomas, what's the reaction? Like? How is that actually going to work in real life? And well, the fear is that if somebody witnesses an overdose, they're not going to call emergency services because they might be charged with felony homicide. This is a recipe for people dying of drug overdoses. And, like, is this the solution to the Fentanyl crisis? Is making sure that when people overdose that nobody calls for emergency services?

Thomas Bowman 

And it's also a legislative mandate to make community and police relationships even worse. Right? Like it's going to increase fear. Suppose that bill was to have passed. I mean, cops don't want to deal with that crap, either. My guess would be, you know. But if you're afraid to call the cops because you think you're gonna get busted for drugs or worse. You know, for felony homicide, felony homicide, which, you know, that's kind of ridiculously unconscionable as far as the judicial legal systems go.

Michael Pope 

Like it's dead for now. The Senate has already killed this thing, despite the fact that Youngkin specifically asked for it and the history of the Commonwealth. But it does not seem to be moving forward to the process.

Thomas Bowman 

Yeah, I guess. Maybe Glenn Youngkin will learn the lesson don't air out in divided government; don't highlight the things you actually want in your State of the Commonwealth address.

Michael Pope 

Well, but even Okay, so from his perspective, he probably knew he wasn't going to get it.

Thomas Bowman 

Sure.

Michael Pope 

 But putting it in the State of the Commonwealth address makes him look tough on crime and makes him look like he's going after fentanyl. He makes it look like he's going after the drug dealers. So from his perspective, I think this is the message that he wanted out of all this, despite the fact he's not getting any policy changes.

Thomas Bowman 

I see that point of view, and the reality is, it's really easy to just combat that messaging. Because it's such a bad bill that you spend a second thinking about it, and you understand why that's dumb policy. But Michael, let's get to the main event. Let's get to our listener mailbag.

Michael Pope 

Listener mailbag! All right, Thomas, go ahead and open up that pod Virginia mailbag. What are our listeners saying on Twitter?

Thomas Bowman 

All right, in reference to our discussion of Governor Glenn Youngkin saying no to an EV battery facility in struggling Danville, Virginia, the anonymous Twitter account StocksMakeMeRich @StocksMake said this,  "Not a Youngkin personally, but I'm with him on this. I do not want any Chinese government-run companies purchasing land or having any type of business in Virginia or near the nation's capital." And that prompted a response from Mike @FuMikechu FIU, "2500 jobs."

Michael Pope 

That's the number of jobs that would have been coming to Southside Virginia that were canceled by the Governor. And then there's this from Joshua Norris @ NorrisnotChuck. He said this  "people are super pissed at Glenn Youngkin for selling us out. My phone is melting here on the south side. We need these jobs. Not everyone is uber-rich like you, Glenn." So yeah, this China thing. Thomas, you and I have talked about this on our podcast already twice. We led our last two podcasts with a discussion of this issue. And this is really kind of blown up to dominate the session here. The Governor is trying to come out hard against Communist Chinese influence in Virginia and aligns with the discussion we were just having about tough-on-crime politics and going after drug dealers. It does kind of have this ring of what Senator Surovell said, like this zombie politics from the George Allen era. I get a little bit of that from this thing about going after the nefarious influence of the Communist Chinese party. But I will say this, Thomas, he's trying to get out ahead of Governor DeSantis, who has already done something similar to this by trying to prevent people with ties to the Communist Chinese party from buying Florida farmland. He didn't want DeSantos being out on his right flank and wanted to make sure he was on the record against people with ties to the Communist Chinese party for buying Virginia farmland.

Thomas Bowman 

Yeah, Michael, nobody likes the Chinese Communist Party. I think that's absolutely ridiculous. And this Ford battery plant was not an opportunity for the Chinese Communist Party to gain a foothold in Virginia. It was a chance to bring high-paying jobs. And by the way, cutting-edge technology to Virginia. The question wasn't should Ford be able to use this battery company? They have the most advanced battery in the entire world. And it's also the most widely used. Ford's going to use that battery no matter who manufactures it. The question was, would that be Virginians?

Michael Pope 

Yeah, well, it's not going to be Virginia. That's because Youngkin has already said to Ford, you're not welcome here in the Commonwealth. Take your EV battery facility and put it somewhere else because we don't want you here in Virginia, which I think, had some people labeling him Virginia's job-killing Governor.

Thomas Bowman 

Yeah, it's really bad. And if there were truly national security concerns, the federal government actually flags those and steps in. But Ford is an iconic American company. And we do business with China all the time. China is Virginia's number one business partner as far as international business relationships go. By the way, Glenn Youngkin made hundreds of Millions of dollars with his $10 Billions of dollars worth of investment in China when he was at Carlyle Group. And the perception is, he got him, and now that he's trying to run for president, the people of Danville aren't going to get to have anything. That's the perception. He's got a lot to overcome. I think that this alone tanked his career. But Michael, I could go on all day. I want to move on now because Giuliana Nicolini said this, recently discovered Pod Virginia, and it's fantastic. I feel like I have lots of learning and catching up to do. Didn't Virginia middle schoolers take state history and government classes like we did in Texas? I need to read that textbook.

Yeah, we all need to read that textbook. You could probably start with a copy of the Bryd Machine of Virginia. Thomas, I would say when I was growing up in North Carolina, we had two years of North Carolina history. I think it was like the fourth grade and the eighth grade. So they're really trying to, you know, pump you full of learning about your local State here. Did you actually grew up in Virginia? Do you recall relearning Virginia history in school?

I definitely took Virginia history in fourth grade. I'm pretty sure there was Virginia history; I don't think it was in middle school. It might have been in high school. Michael, I drank so much in college. I blocked most of that out. But the short answer is yes. And also, the curriculum gets updated every several years. So it's been too long anyway for me to give an accurate answer. So maybe someone else can weigh in on Twitter.

Michael Pope 

Yes, please weigh in. All right. So speaking of Twitter, there was also this interesting Twitter thread that started with Delegate Irene Shin, who posted a packet of mayonnaise that would cost an incarcerated person $1.25. Think about that for a second, you're an incarcerated person, and your only access to mayonnaise is that regular packet; this is the kind of mayonnaise packet you could find at any fast food place. But if you're in a Virginia prison, it will cost you $1.25. Because of some corrupt contract that the person who runs that jail has with a third-party vendor. So Bryant Atkins tweeted, "this has been on my mind since listening to that Pod Virginia episode about this very issue. So then Bryant Atkins went on to say that this probably should be the kind of issue that is talked about on the campaign trail. So if you're thinking about sheriffs running for office and asking questions of candidates for sharing, this would be a really good one to ask them about that $1.25 packet of mayonnaise. I would personally add that if you're thinking about candidates and asking them questions, and whatever their position is, on specific things involving people who are incarcerated in jails by being hit up with these ridiculous charges. I would ask them if they support free telephone calls for people incarcerated in jail. Earlier in this episode, we talked about that bill from Senator Koysko and the budget amendment from Senator Petersen about requiring free telephone calls in prisons. But their bill actually does nothing about calls in jails. So if you're a short-term person, like you've just been arrested, and you're awaiting trial, or you're only going to be there for less than a year, you're going to be in jail. Whereas if you've already been sentenced, and you've got a one year, two years, three years, a decade, you're serving a long sentence, you're going to be in prison. So there's an important distinction there are people in jails who also need to talk to their families, and yet they're not helped at all by Senator Boyskos bill or Senator Petersen's budget amendment. So I would say to Bryant Atkins, if he's thinking about asking candidates for sheriff where they stand on this issue, I would ask them, where do you stand on people in your jail being able to make free telephone calls?

Thomas Bowman 

I agree. That is a great question, Michael. And also, a friend of the show, Buckingham County Supervisor Jordan Miles, says, "it was great hearing from Senator Scott Surovell on our show about the Governors State of the Commonwealth address. That was a really quick, rapid response, Michael. Day of right after that address. He said he especially loves the surveillance quote about the zombie policy from Governor Allen's time. Yeah, that was, that was a punchy quote.

Michael Pope 

 It's like that Michael Jackson video thriller where the zombies come out of the graveyard and start doing the dance routine. So it kind of reminded me of when Youngkin was going through his list of some drugs, right? Before we go, let's celebrate some birthdays. This week. We've got two, so Monday, January 23, is the birthday of Delegate Phillip Scott of Portsmouth; then Sunday, January 29, is the birthday of Senator John Bell of Loudoun. So happy birthday all around. Also, a shout out to the Polar Institute, which Thomas, I think you've worked with in the past. This is a group of Fairfax County high school students who will be at the Pocahontas building this week. So I'll be speaking to them about how the media works in terms of covering the General Assembly. My friend Jackie Defusco, who's a television journalist, will be joining us. We're going to talk to the students about the media and how it works. So it's always a highlight for me to speak to students at the Polar Institute. All

Thomas Bowman 

Right, well, we're running long, so let's leave it there. Thank you for listening.