Buy, Sell, or Hold? Special Session Edition with Sarah Taylor, Delegate Alfonso Lopez, Delegate Marcus Simon, and Senator Scott Surovell
Michael sits down with Senator Scott Surovell, Delegate Alfonso Lopez, Delegate Marcus Simon, and Alexandria Assistant City Manager Sarah Taylor to get their takes on Governor Youngkin's legacy budget, student protests, invasive plants, and Jeff Ryer on Pod Virginia.
Episode Transcript
Michael Pope
It's time for everybody's favorite game show, buy, sell, or hold. We're here with the Pod Virginia AllStars, the classic lineup. We're really excited to have this group back on Pod Virginia, starting with Delegate Marcus Simon.
Marcus Simon
Hey, Michael. It's great to be here. And it's great to have Scott Surovell in person so we can really make fun of him and see the look on his face when we tease him.
Michael Pope
We'll get to the leader. We’re also joined by Delegate Alfonso Lopez.
Alfonso Lopez
Is that really Scott's Surovell in front of me? Because I don't think it is, it might not be.
Michael Pope
It is Scott Surovell. We are in the office of Senate Majority Leader Scott Surovell.
Scott Surovell
Welcome to my compound.
Michael Pope
It is actually a compound. I had to be let in because I was not high security enough to get into this part of the building. And returning to Pod Virginia is everybody's favorite contestant, Sarah Taylor.
Sarah Graham Taylor
I was promised Marcia Price.
Michael Pope
Cia Price was great. She was a great addition to the game show. All right, for our first topic, I'm going to start with Marcus Simon, and then we will take turns on people going first. And if our contestants could remind me who should go first because I will sometimes forget. Delegate Marcus Simon, you are first on this one: buy, sell, or hold. The premise of the game is, I will say, a topic the contestants can either buy, sell, or hold. But you don't want to hold because we have some social stigma attached to that, and this is a well-trained group of contestants. All right, Delegate Marcus Simon, you are first, and the first topic is this: waiting until May to pass a budget. Do you buy, sell, or hold?
Marcus Simon
I am a buy on a special session for the budget for two reasons. One, the weather is much better here in Richmond in May than at any other time of the year. It's been beautiful. It's a beautiful day here in Richmond. And two, particularly in years when we have a Republican governor, I love to come down for a special session. And let's just keep it going, maybe for two more years, so I don't know. But I'm a big buy on that. It gives the legislature a little extra prerogative. It takes away some of the prerogatives of the governor, so I'm all for that. We got it done with plenty of time for localities to meet their budgets, which was nowhere near July 1st. No deadlines were missed. So I'm a big buy.
Michael Pope
Delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell, or hold on waiting until May to pass a budget?
Alfonso Lopez
I'm a sell. I'd rather that we've done this on time and that we'd given the localities time to budget for these things properly. Also, let's be honest: the governor has been backtracking twelve ways to Sunday on what he called a backward budget. And essentially, he's voting on the same budget, but it's now a forward budget. So, I'm going to sell on doing it in May, because I really like doing stuff on time.
Michael Pope
It's backwards; it's forwards. Maybe it's the transmission budget. Leader Scott Surovell, buy, sell, or hold on waiting until May to pass a budget?
Scott Surovell
I'm going to sell on the premise of your question because we actually did pass the budget on time. We passed the budget on time, and this special session became necessary because the governor threatened the first veto in the history of the Commonwealth, which is why the budget ended up being parked in a special place and had to be redone in May. But also, in terms of what actually occurred, I think I would prefer to see it done in June when there's a bit more pressure on people to compromise in a different direction than it ended up. So, given the way it played out. I would I would probably rather see this done in June. But here's what it is.
Michael Pope
All right. Well, I'm a sell on you being a sell on the premise of my question. All right, our final contestant on this topic, buy, sell, or hold on waiting until May to pass a budget, Sarah Taylor.
Sarah Graham Taylor
I am a sell on waiting until May to pass a budget despite what Delegate Simon said; passing the state budget this late is really bad for localities. When localities can get their budgets done and make decisions about their money and their taxes, what they're going to do in their community, and what their needs are, When those needs have to be matched in some way, shape, or form by the Commonwealth whether it's for K-12, or public safety or all these other areas. It really puts localities, especially small localities and rural localities, in a tough place when it comes to planning their own budgets for the next year. So, while a May budget is certainly better than a June budget or a September budget, as we've seen, I am sell from the perspective of localities on state budget happening this late.
Michael Pope
All right, our next topic goes to loudmouth Alfonso Lopez first. It is going to be a political campaign-oriented topic. The Jennifer Wexton endorsement of Suhas Subramanyam, buy, sell, or hold?
Alfonso Lopez
I'm a hold on that. I mean, let's be very honest: Jennifer Wexton is maybe one of the best public servants in Virginia in the modern era. She is a truly wonderful human being who cares deeply about our community. And the fact that she's working so hard at this time at such a difficult time in her own personal life to bring attention to what's going on with her health and to the disease in general, but also the amazing work she's still doing US Congress fighting for the people of the 10th district. It's just amazingly laudable and admirable. I will not second guess who she's going to endorse. I think there are a lot of people in that race who are good friends of mine, who also could bring something, as I said last time, very unique and special to that Congressional seat. But I am a hold on whether or not I'm going to second guess Jennifer Wexton on anything.
Michael Pope
I think a lot of people were expecting her not to make an endorsement. And this week, she surprised a lot of people by making this endorsement. Leader Surovell, buy, sell, or hold on Wexton endorsing Subramanyam.
Scott Surovell
I'm a buy. And I'm a buy of elected officials endorsing for their successors. First of all, I endorsed Suhas about a week or two ago, although I made the decision a little bit before that. So, in any event, I'm happy that Congressman Wexton agrees with me. That's nice. But I did not talk to her about her endorsement or why she was doing it. However, I suspect that the lack of a clear differentiation between the candidates or lack of action in the primary probably prompted her to get involved. There just wasn't a lot of action happening in that primary, is my guess. But I haven't talked to her; I don't know why she chose to get involved. But it doesn't surprise me. And if I was leaving a seat, and I felt strongly about who my successor would be, I'd certainly want my opinion to be known. So I don't fault her for that and agree with everything that Lopez said a minute ago.
Michael Pope
There are a dozen Democrats running in this very crowded field. Sarah Taylor, buy, sell, or hold on the incumbent making this endorsement?
Sarah Graham Taylor
I'm going to steal a little bit of Senator Surovell's buy of the idea that having someone, especially someone who is leaving their seat by choice, endorsing their successor, I think, is a really important message to send to the community. I think, in this case, it's an interesting message to send to the community, to effectively endorse in a way that points to this continuing to be a seat that is centered in Loudoun County. That is some version of the message being sent here. I think that it is important for the 10th district to be telegraphing effectively, that this is a seat centered in Loudoun County, and that we want leadership from Loudoun. We want Loudoun's voice to be deeply represented coming out of this district. So I am a buy on pointing to your successor and a buy on the idea that this could be an endorsement that sort of focuses the power of this seat deeply in Loudoun County. Most of the voters in this congressional district are in Loudoun County. Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on Wexton's endorsement of Subramanyam.
Marcus Simon
I am going to be a buy, to the extent that I think Congresswoman Wexton gets to endorse whoever she wants to. I don't think she shouldn't be able to do that. I agree with what Surovell said about that being her prerogative. She's been one of my best friends down here when she was here in the legislature and beyond that, so I wouldn't second guess anything she's done. She actually has the right to do that. Now, to be clear, I have a number of colleagues in the House of Delegates who are also seeking that seat. So, the Subramanyam piece does not and should not be construed; this is my disclaimer here as an endorsement of anyone.
Michael Pope
Sounds like a hold, dude.
Marcus Simon
Or any of the other candidates. So I'm all for her making her choice and for her desire and wishes to be known about the seat; that she's fought to flip from red to blue and that she served so well. But like I said, there's a little bit of a disclaimer there that Marcus Simon does not endorse any particular candidate in this race.
Michael Pope
Oh, all right. Our next topic is for Leader Scott Surovell. It is this, the potential that you guys might come back for a special session on skill games: buy, sell, or hold?
Scott Surovell
Again, your question framing isn't quite right there, Pope. So, I'm going to sell on the framing of the question because we are in a special session. The resolution we passed today encompasses the possibility of revenue bills, which could include skill games so that we wouldn't come back for a new special session; it would be part of the same session if anything. So sorry, I'm splitting hairs there. But in terms of the skill game concept coming back, I think my preference would be that we come back to do a bunch of other things instead of just coming back for that. But we'll see if they're able to reach a compromise. One of the big disappointments of this budget is that we didn't put any new revenue sources in the stream, and we're never going to fill our K-12 if we don't start finding new ways to pay for things in Virginia. Cannabis, retail legalization, retail cannabis would have been a $300 to $500 million positive dollar in our budget; skill games were probably going to add another $200 to $500 million, depending on how you do it. But I want to see the bill before I decide whether or not we ought to actually hear it. There's been a lot of versions of it out there. But I think we ought to come back for something more than just skill games if we're going to come back again. So that's kind of where I am. It's a lot of effort to get 140 people back in this building and push them through.
Micahel Pope
Sarah Taylor, I've heard you say many times that they're not really all that special if you have them all the time. Do you buy, sell, or hold on to yet another special session?
Sarah Graham Taylor
You just stole my answer. I am a sell-on special session. They're not so special anymore. They're just sessions. I would say from the local government perspective, we did think that the amendments that the governor sent down added additional local authority to decide whether skill games are right for your community through referendum, either by the local governing body or as directed by the voters of the area. Thought that was a very interesting addition to the discussion, and would certainly like to see that get some debate and discussion here in the General Assembly. But gosh, can we just get all this stuff done in 45 or 60 days? Oh, wait, that's a ridiculous amount of time to do all this kind of work. But that's what we've got. So I'm a sell on more and more special sessions.
Michael Pope
Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on another special session for skill games?
Marcus Simon
So, I'm going to again, reject the premise of your question. I think it was one long special session. And I was a big buy, as you'll recall, coming back for a special session just recessing it and leaving it out there. So I'm a buy on the continuing special session. I will say the weather in early May is much better than in June; June is pretty miserable. It's pretty miserable pretty quickly, weather-wise. The theme here for me is how comfortable I am going to be in Richmond. Look, I'm also a buy of not putting this issue of skill games to bed just yet. I have met with a lot of small business owners, entrepreneurs, and folks who have come to rely on this. I think they've tried to really bargain in good faith and allow us to set some reasonable restrictions on where, how many, they are to be taxed, and so forth. So I think we owe it to them to continue the conversation, so I am a buy.
Michael Pope
Delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell, or hold on continuing a special session. Having a special session and returning to Richmond to vote in special sessions?
Alfonso Lopez
Well, I enjoy seeing my friends. But at the same time, I don't think I can add anything to what the excellent people here have already said. So, I support each of their positions in their own special way.
Michael Pope
Okay, well, then we're going to move on to our next topic. Sarah Taylor, you are first on this one. Nuclear power. Lots of people are suspicious of it. Lots of people think about the mushroom cloud. Should we buy, sell, or hold on to nuclear power?
Sarah Graham Taylor
Yikes, um, I am probably a buy on learning more and finding out if it's right for Virginia. I want to learn more about where it might be right and find out what the good parts are and what the bad parts are. This is one of those things that I don't know a ton about, and I don't know that most of Virginia knows a ton about it. Maybe this is an opportunity for us to have the workgroups, the work sessions, and the ongoing discussion about whether or not this is right for communities across Virginia. So I guess maybe I'm a buy on a continued conversation about this. But yeah, that's the best I got on this one.
Michael Pope
Being a buy on learning more is edging pretty close to being hold, but you're not quite there yet, so skillful avoidance of that. Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on nuclear power?
Marcus Simon
I am a buy because I'm not a no-nukes guy. I do think that these SMRs have a lot of potential; I think I'm really excited about these small modular nuclear reactors. I know that Lopez loves them, too. Look, we need carbon-free energy. I know that there are some drawbacks to nuclear power. And I'd love to see us be able to do everything we need to do with wind, solar, geothermal, and tidal. Whatever there is out there, that's purely green renewable energy that doesn't have some of the drawbacks of nuclear energy. But in the meantime, I think we need to be getting out of the business of putting more carbon into the atmosphere. So, to the extent that nuclear energy helps us do that, I'm a buy.
Michael Pope
Delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell, or hold on to nuclear power?
Alfonso Lopez
So I am a buy on reducing our carbon footprint. I am a buy of reducing emissions. I am a sell on the fact that we still don't have a place to deal with the spent fuel rods. We had Yucca Mountain back in the late 90s early aughts, and it never got through the US Senate. So, all of the fuel rods that were spent are kept on site. Let's be very clear about that. Also, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission I don't believe they've actually approved any new nuclear sites in the United States in a generation. Decades? Correct me if I'm wrong there. BNuclearis one of our options, but the fact that we are not doubling, tripling, or quadrupling down on renewable energy that works, like solar, wind, and hydrokinetic, and doing everything we can to make that work in every corner of Virginia, not just in South Side, not just in SouthWest, not just off the coast, not just in the valley, but in Northern Virginia as well. It just doesn't make any sense to me. So when we sort of say, Oh, well, we're going to do small modular reactors, and that's the answer. Come on. They're far too costly. The one project that was on the cusp of getting approved and going forward imploded metaphorically. So, I appreciate the updates that were made to the SMR bill; in terms of the impact on the ratepayer, I appreciate the caps that were put in place. But I am not in favor of the fact that if each of these were to play out the way they were projected to play out, it would cost around 2.7 billion dollars. They initially wanted to build over two dozen of them across Virginia. Listen, nuclear is part of our energy footprint. Does it have significantly reduced emissions? Yes. But until we actually have something to do with the spent fuel rods and we're going to protect our wastewater, our clean, safe drinking water, and the environment completely, and we don't have to have them on site, I'm not fully bought in. Not fully bought in, okay, Leader Scott Surovell, buy, sell, or hold on nuclear power?
Scott Surovell
In criminal court, we have something called a slow plea, which is basically when you go to trial on a case, you know, you're going to lose. You don't really put up much of a fight, but you go to trial so you can get out a lot of evidence and sort of slowly put on this brave face for the judge, so they have a better understanding of why it is you're not pleading guilty, but you're going to get convicted. And anyway, what you just heard was a slow sell.
Alfonso Lopez
Am I wrong? Am I wrong, the honorable Scott Surovell?
Scott Surovell
I'm going to start using the talking stick over there pretty soon, Lopez. That's my Tanzanian Talking Stick, Messiah Talking Stick; you're not allowed to speak unless you're holding a stick in any event. First of all, I'm pronuclear. I think nuclear is carbon-free. It's worked great in Virginia; Virginia is currently 30% nuclear, and at night, we are much more nuclear because the reactors don't turn off. It's worked wonderfully in this commonwealth. If we're talking about another big reactor, that's a little bit different of an issue because of the amount of money that could go into that versus building solar or something else that might make a little more sense. But in terms of SMR, which has been the topic of conversation lately, First of all, I would just like to note, for the record, that there was an SMR built and constructed in the 34th district at Fort Belvoir in 1956. And it produced power from 1956 to 1973, and the Department of the Army just recently dismantled it. There's a historical marker on base about it; it was in my district. So, we have built SMRs in this country before; we have also put them in nuclear aircraft carriers and subs and other things. And okay, Lopez is having a stroke over there. But what he fails to remember is that when we passed the Virginia Clean Economy Act, the VCA, three years ago now, we also authorized 3500 megawatts of energy storage. At the time, we authorized that and said it was in the public interest; it required the SEC to approve it, and we didn't have a single technology that anybody was aware of that was cost-effective that would actually work. And we're doing the same thing on SMRs right now: incentivize the market to try and figure out a way to do it. And I think that's a good thing. I trust the SEC to make sure the power companies don't overspend. We've given them a whole bunch of new power and authority. And I trust our regulator to get it right. And I think we ought to explore it. So that's kind of where I am.
Michael Pope
Moving on to our next topic, I believe Marcus Simon is first on this one. Student protests, buy, sell or hold?
Marcus Simon
Well, that's a broad topic. I am generally a buy of students protesting and their ability to protest. So yeah, I think they have free expression. Look, I protested when I was a student; I participated in those things.
Michael Pope
What were you protesting?
Marcus Simon
During the first Gulf War, I remember the chant was, "hell, no, we won't go, we won't fight for Texaco." It was very catchy. I generally support the concept of students being able to protest. I am going to draw a line, though, where the protests get into a position where they create a safety risk to other students and other folks on campus. Whether that has actually been a threshold that has been reached or not, and whether the police needed to be where they were or not. Today, I've just been appointed to a special committee by the Speaker to look into some of those issues. And I look forward to learning more about that. So, I'm not going to opine until I've had a chance to let that work play out. So a buy generally on protests, with a little bit of a reservation, for the line that can be crossed. And we need to be careful about finding out where that line is and then taking appropriate steps to walk it back.
Michael Pope
Delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell, or hold on student protests?
Alfonso Lopez
I was also a part of protests in college for the Gulf War.
Michael Pope
Did you have the same chant, or did you have a different chant?
Alfonso Lopez
Actually, I don't recall; we had a couple. Anyway, here's the thing: I'm all for freedom of speech; I'm completely for students protesting on issues. That is what higher education is supposed to be about. It's about the free exchange of ideas. I'm very much a fan of what the President Wesleyan University up in Connecticut did when they had protests on campus. Instead of having the police come, instead of engaging like that, they said, let's have more conversations and a wider debate where the administration is involved with student leaders. Where student protest leaders talk about the history of the situation, the history of what's going on now, and what the different perspectives are. You want to have more conversations to address things. I agree with Marcus that when you have freedom of speech, it goes further and impedes someone's physical safety and personal safety or the destruction of property. Well, then, that's a different set of rules. However, I'm very interested in investigating the real motives at certain campuses in Virginia in terms of who called the cops. Who allowed the cops to use pepper spray? To use force? If we find that they were more aggressive, maybe they should have considered each campus's unique situation, and we should have had a fairly strong conversation about what that meant. And there should be repercussions. That being said, I am completely for freedom of speech, especially on college campuses. That's where you need to be having these kinds of conversations. In fact, I think these kinds of conversations on college campuses have led the country forward at almost every point in our history.
Michael Pope
Leader Scott Surovell, buy, sell, or hold on student protests?
Scott Surovell
I'm fine with protests. I'm going to buy on that. What I'm not fine with is the governor pretending and the Attorney General pretending like they run our campuses. In our state, our universities are run by independent Boards of Visitors, who get to make those decisions. The Board of Visitors hires a president, who hires a chief of police, and it's the chief of police's decision as to how to handle those things. Working with the administration of the school, not the administration of Glenn Youngkin or Jason Miyares. I don't find their rhetoric and the way they're talking as if they're in charge to be particularly helpful; it creates confusion. Often, the campus police have to call on the state police to help them deal with these situations in collaboration. In the meetings and briefings I've had, it's my understanding that the State Police are simply taking orders from campus police, not the governor. I hope that the chain of command remains clear and uninhibited. And the governor doesn't exert undue pressure on the schools because of his political objectives. That's my main concern. Beyond that, I think what Lopez said a minute ago is generally right. But I would note that the information that they've given us says that there are a lot of non-students involved in organizing these things. I think the non-students do not belong on campus property or bring in plywood or supplies and materials to create problems. These need to be student-generated events, protested by students, not outside third parties looking to create chaos on campus. I think we need to make sure that's not happening. Those are some of the things I'm interested in looking at.
Michael Pope
Sarah Taylor, buy, sell, or hold on student protests?
Sarah Graham Taylor
Just for the record, I don't know if anybody at home is keeping track, but that is twice that Senator Surovell said that Delegate Lopez was correct. So, for any of you keeping track at home, that is, two Lopez is correct. So, keep track of your bingo cards at home.
Alfonso Lopez
*indistinguishable talking*
Michael Pope
You don't have the microphone. You don't have the stick that the leader had? No, you don't have the talking stick or the microphone. All right, Sarah Taylor. I'm so sorry for the rude interruption. Let's try that one more time: Buy, sell, or hold on to student protests.
Sarah Graham Taylor
I am a buy of student protests. I would like to point out that during the first Gulf War, I was making a scrapbook in my freshman year of high school. So I'm just putting that out there on the record. So buy on student protests, especially on college campuses and in educational institutions. That's where you go to learn about these things, where you go to learn about differences of opinion. It's where you go to learn about debate. It's where you go to learn about consequences. And it's where you go to do things that, in the end, are not intended to get in the way of anybody's ability to learn their safety or the property on which you are inhabiting. So I think I'm a buy on student protests. And with my 13-year-old self, I could have been there, with Alfonso and Marcus, in their protests of the first Gulf War.
Michael Pope
I saved this next topic for Alfonso Lopez to go first, which is Jeff Ryer as a guest host of Pod Virginia. Alfonso Lopez buy, sell, or hold?
Alfonso Lopez
I think Jeff Ryer is hilarious. I think he's a very funny guy. I like Jeff Ryer, but Jeff is selling a perspective. As a host, you're supposed to be as unbiased as possible and fact-driven. Although I do like Jeff Ryer as a person and I enjoy spending time with Jeff Ryer, I'm buy on Jeff Ryer being a guest on Pod Virginia. I am not so high on Jeff Ryer being a host on Pod Virginia, simply because of his positions on the Netanyahu administration and then some other stuff he said was a little out there.
Michael Pope
Leader Scott Surovell, buy, sell, or hold on to Jeff Ryer being a guest host of Pod Virginia?
Scott Surovell
If it helps grow your listenership, I'm a buy. I'm all for bipartisan political shows and getting more people interested in Virginia policy. I'll just note, though, that if you really want to be with Jeff Ryer for an extended period, you're going to have to do this outside because I don't think he's going to be able to do it without smoking.
Michael Pope
Sarah Taylor, buy, sell, or hold on to Jeff Ryer returning to Pod Virginia as a guest host?
Sarah Graham Taylor
Apparently, I was catching up on my true crime podcasts, and I missed an episode here. So, sorry about that, Michael. I am a buy of bipartisanship. I'm a buy of differing opinions. I'm a buy-on loud voice in the room to potentially help Pod Virginia and get people to listen to it. I'm a sell if it means there's less Lauren, if there's less Thomas, if there's less other folks in the room. But yeah, I guess I missed an episode.
Michael Pope
Yeah, I took a few days off to go to Manhattan. So I needed somebody to be a guest host. Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on to Jeff Ryer being a guest host while I was in Manhattan?
Marcus Simon
I have a big sell on that, for two reasons. One is that I like to be in my comfort zone. When I listen to Pod Virginia, it's like my little comfortable, safe place. I feel like we're all friends. I only hear the news I want to hear. Very reassuring. And two, my friend Michael Pope is not there, and I want more Michael Pope than less. I'm a big sell on Jeff Ryer, who I don't know particularly well, but if more Jeff means less Michael, then I'm definitely going to be a sell.
Michael Pope
I've got to take a few days off now and then. All right, our next topic goes to Leader Scott Surovell, having a hard copy of the budget. Everybody these days has their digital copy. They'll bring out their tablet, and they'll scroll up and down. They can search for keywords. But there's just something about having a hard copy budget. Leader Surovell, buy, sell, or hold on getting your hands on an actual hard copy of the budget?
Scott Surovell
Given that we're not allowed to have guns in here, I think they'd make an excellent defensive weapon if I ever need to fight my way out of this building. But other than its use for that, it's pretty damn useless. If I need something from the budget, I find putting something in the search bar is a much more efficient way to find something. So I'm going to sell on printing that thing. I think it's a lot of wasted paper.
Michael Pope
You're so high-tech. All right. Sarah Taylor, can you buy, sell, or hold on to an actual hard copy of the budget?
Sarah Graham Taylor
I am a buy on a hard copy of the budget. I like paper, and I'm sure that makes me a terrible environmentalist. I'm sure this is not eco-friendly. But I liked the paper. I like the tangible piece of paper in front of me. I like putting the little sticky tabs on the sections that I want to go back to. I like highlighters. I'm a big fan of a hard copy of the budget. Senator Surovell is right; going in the search bar, I search for the word Alexandria, and I find the seven things I need to know about. But actually, sitting and leafing through a tangible copy of the budget is incredibly satisfying. I'm a big buy of a hard copy of the budget. I would note, however, that I was very confused this year when they were published in the wrong order. The Caboose was 6,002, and the Biennial Budget was 6,001. I don't know if there's a rule about that. But it was weird, awkward, and uncomfortable for me. So, I think someone needs to fix that. So I am a sell and doing them in the wrong order. I am a buy on having tangible copies of them to digest.
Michael Pope
I will note for the record that I've got my hands here on the Virginia budget, but it is impossible to get a hard copy of the City of Alexandria budget. I'm just going to put that out there. Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on to getting your hands on an actual hard copy of the budget?
Marcus Simon
If you were to get a hard copy from the City of Alexandria, it would be printed on hemp paper. Hemp paper is fully compostable, so when you are done with it, it will just disintegrate.
Sarah Graham Taylor
It would be a paper that's built with seeds. You bury your backyard, and wildflowers grow, Marcus.
Marcus Simon
When you come up with that technology for printing the budget in Alexandria, then I'd be a buy. No, listen. The only thing you need a hard copy of is Michael Pope's book The Bryd Machine.
Michael Pope
You'll notice: It's nowhere in this office. We are in Leader Surovells' office, and I don't think there is a copy here.
Marcus Simon
This is why I keep getting invited back despite my bad answers. I suck up just enough; I miss you, Michael Pope, no Jeff Ryer, and buy the Bryd Machine. However, I'm a sell on the printing of them. Unless you have a short kid who needs a booster seat or something, you can pile up a couple of budgets, and then they don't need a booster seat anymore. I'm not a Luddite; I think typing the information into the search engine is a much better way to find it. So again, unless there are compostable, seed-bearing, blossoming budgets. I'm going to sell.
Michael Pope
It's FY25, compostable seed-bearing budgets; all right now, we'll get Alfonso Lopez.
Alfonso Lopez
I think…
Michael Pope
You'll have to wait for the question. Buy, sell, or hold on getting your hands on a hard copy of the budget.
Alfonso Lopez
I think it's fascinating that the person from Falls Church is saying that Alexandria is too liberal. Honestly, they're both good. I think convenience is good. I think we need to be able to have hard copies of you if it makes you more effective at doing your job and following along with the budget. Also, we need to have the convenience of having an online version, so I think this is an absurd question. I think we should like both.
Michael Pope
I like absurd questions. That's kind of my brand. Sarah Taylor, you have the first answer on this next topic: invasive plants: buy, sell, or hold?
Sarah Graham Taylor
I don't sell invasive plants or things that take over my yard, which I'm not a big fan of. In my front yard, in fact, right now, my Azaleas are currently being eaten by morning glories. So, my front yard invasion is certainly something that I would sell. If we're talking about selling invasive plants, if we're talking about whether or not these are things you can buy at Nalls or your local hardware. I think I'm a sell. If what we're trying to do is set our gardens, our neighborhoods, and our yards up for longevity and ensure that what we are doing is not something that's going to be problematic for folks who live in our communities in 5, 10, 20, 50 years from now. Maybe planting things that take over yards or are not good for our yards and neighborhoods is probably not the way to go. So I would say I am a sell on invasive. Assuming we're talking about plant species.
Michael Pope
Yeah, there has been a lot of discussion about invasive plants this year. I believe the Governor vetoed all the bills. Delegate Marcus Simon, should we buy, sell, or hold on to invasive plants?
Marcus Simon
I'm going to sell on invasive plants. With a caveat, that's totally different than a hold. I like native plants. I prefer native plants out here. But there are some fairly common landscaping things. I don't know if Azaleas are natural to Virginia or anything like that, but that is fine. So, generally speaking, we ought to move away from invasive species and rely more on native plants. So I'm going to go ahead and say I am a sell on invasive plants. But I think some invasive plants are more invasive and worse than others.
On a previous podcast, I think Senator Jeremy McPike said that crape myrtles were invasive plants. That was news to me. Delegate Alfonso Lopez buy, sell, or hold on invasive plants?
Alfonso Lopez
Sell on invasive plants. But also a big sell on some of the governor's vetoes on some of the invasive plant bills we had this year; trying to fix the English ivy issue along Route One and Mount Vernon alone is enough to say that you need to sell on the governor's veto. It's a no-brainer; we should have actually taken the sort of baby steps that needed to be taken to fix these issues across the Commonwealth, and I just have no idea why he vetoed them.
Michael Pope
Perhaps it'll come back again next year, and the year after that, and then indefinitely. Leader Scott Surovell, buy, sell, or hold on invasive plants?
Scott Surovell
First of all, I'm trying to understand what you're asking about.
Michael Pope
You don't like any of my questions.
Scott Surovell
For example, is Jeff Ryer an invasive plant? Given the orientation of this group, I'm not sure he quite fits. But, Oh, you're not talking about him? Okay. Well, listen, I only support plants if they come to this country with proper papers. It's very important to the governor that we don't have the wrong types of things. Anyway, I hate English ivy English. I cannot tell you how many hours I spent pulling English ivy out of my yard as a teenager; that stuff is disgusting. It's taken over my district. So I am anti-English ivy. However, with regard to other invasives, I'm all for information, right? I thought that Senator Saddam Salim's bill, along with Holly Seibold, just wanted to put a sign on the plant so people knew what they were buying wasn't a big deal. But apparently, that was just a bridge too far for the governor. We can't tell people whether their plants are invasive or not, God forbid. That I thought was a good idea. I think it kind of depends on the plant. So I am a buy on banish English ivy, and I'm a buy giving people information. But I'm going to sell on just a blanket. Statement about invasive plants: There are lots of invasive plants that are probably not a big deal. I couldn't tell you off the top of my head what they are.
Michael Pope
Our next topic will be Delegate Marcus Simon. It's this, bringing back Confederate names after they have been banished. Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on bringing back the Confederates?
Marcus Simon
So, I am an easy sell on this one. Thank goodness. Finally, an easy question. Remember how much they told us it was going to cost if we had to rename these schools and how expensive that was going to be, apparently? That's no longer a big deal when we change it back. That's that's not expensive. But look, here are a couple of lessons for folks to take from this. One is no amount of progress we make is ever safe. You would think maybe you didn't, but once we sort of crossed that threshold and we got rid of those names, that wasn't something that would come back. So, this is warning folks about future elections. Every bit of progress that happens during these democratic days, when we hold the House and Senate, could be taken back. And they could go backward very quickly. I am a big sell on that stuff.
Michael Pope
Delegate Alfonso Lopez, buy, sell, or hold on bringing back the Confederates?
Alfonso Lopez
I'm a huge sell. I had to scratch my head and read that article twice till I actually realized that they were being that idiotic. What does that say to black and brown population kids, Latino kids? Specifically, the African American kids who go to those schools? The National Trust for Historic Preservation talks about how we honor ourselves by putting certain individuals on a pedestal, literally on a pedestal in the town square, or by naming an institution after that; that's who we value. That's what we value as a community. And the idea that we would go backward like that was just offensive.
Michael Pope
Leader Scott Servo, your office here on the glamorous 14th floor has a view of the three Confederate statues that are still in Capitol Square. Buy, sell, or hold on bringing back some of those Confederate names?
Scott Surovell
Actually, you can't see him from my point of view; you have to crane your head to be able to see him.
Michael Pope
Lean out and look over.
Scott Surovell
First of all, I would just say that I'm going to sell on renaming the schools. I can appreciate why a lot of people in Virginia who lived in the areas where you see this going on feel kind of under siege and attacked. I have several of my great-grandfathers who fought for the Confederate army. I'm a 13th-generation Virginia, and if you've had a family in Virginia that long, it's pretty unavoidable. But at this point where we are in today's world, I think naming a school for Confederate Heroes is really just kind of trolling the Libs. Trying to poke fingers in people's eyes and cause problems. I fully support naming a prison after Donald Trump. That's Gerry Connelly's proposal, by the way.
Michael Pope
Sarah Taylor Alexandria has many Confederate names. There are Lee Street, Beauregard Street, and many other streets that lame duck Mayor Justin Wilson wants to get rid of, buy, sell, or hold on renaming a school back to the Confederate.
Sarah Graham Taylor
I would note that Alexandria actually had a law or rule, whatever you call it, on the local level that said, during the Jim Crow era, that certain streets that went in certain directions had to be named after Confederates. That's why Alexandria has so many streets named after Confederates. Because it was, I don't know, if it's an East to West street or a North to South Street, they had to be named for confederates. Alexandria is actually in the process of walking that back and working with the communities, working with the neighborhoods, and coming up with ways to rename those streets to something that is not honoring Confederates. My takeaway is that I am a sell on rehashing the debate over whether or not we should honor Confederates with schools or roads or things like that. What I'm also a sell on is naming things after people in general. I think we should just quit it and ignore Scott Surovell and Alfonso Lopez. Marcus Simon, Michael Pope, or whoever else has sort of Greystar, Justin Wilson, Yes. Jeff Ryer, I don't know if he gets it. But I think the lesson here is that we learn about people over time and history. The view of history changes over time. And maybe we should just quit naming things after people because there's a chance that the turn in which they operated or what they did or how it's viewed in the future may not be the same as it was at the moment that it was that it happened.
Michael Pope
Two more topics, and then we will wrap it up. This is just a warning that we're coming close to the conclusion of our game show: buy, sell, or hold. Delegate Alfonso Lopez and Judas Priest, the classic heavy metal band, is going to be playing MGM this weekend. Yours truly has a ticket; I'm going to see them, buy, sell, or hold on Judas Priest?
Alfonso Lopez
I am not a big fan of Judas Priest; more of a Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young type. And maybe Foo Fighters. But not much of a fan of Judas Priest. This is the question of whether or not we should have had this in an arena in Virginia. As opposed to MGM across the river? Well, then, that's a different conversation. But yeah, I'm not a big fan of Judas Priest. I think they had one hit in 1978. Something like that?
Michael Pope
Leaderater Scott Surovell, buy, sell, or hold on Judas Priest?
Scott Surovell
Cool name. I have no clue what songs they've ever written.
Michael Pope
Breaking the law, breaking the law.
Scott Surovell
That's a Beavis and Butthead.
Michael Pope
Yes.
Scott Surovell
Breaking the law-breaking.
Michael Pope
Where do you think they got it from? Judas Priest.
Scott Surovell
Well, listen, I'm all for Judas Priest playing locally. But I think Lopez hinted at the second real issue, which is that if we had a venue in Virginia for them to play at, we could collect income. We could collect the income taxes that they earn from their show, and we could have had one in Alexandria. We could have had one in Tyson's. It would help alleviate the 5 cents per 100 real estate tax increase that Fairfax County just enacted if we had those venues in my home county. But anyway, I continue to be sad as I watch Maryland continue to suck all these opportunities away from our ability to fund our schools. So I'm a sell on Maryland having the show. But I'm a buy-on for Judas Priest, who is continuing to make money and promote their craft. I just wish it was in my state.
Michael Pope
They've got a new album, and they're on tour. They're currently going to Maryland but not Virginia. Sarah Taylor, should you buy, sell, or hold on to Judas Priest?
Sarah Graham Taylor
Well, everybody stole my arena jokes. So I'm going to go with I'm a buy on Judas Priest because Judas Priest was my father's chosen fake cuss phrase when I was growing up. So, instead of cussing, my dad would say Judas Priest. And so that's why I'm a buy of Judas Priest because it brings me back to my father. I frustrated my father to such a level that he had to come up with a fake cuss phrase.
Michael Pope
I like it. Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on to the classic heavy metal band Judas Priest?
Marcus Simon
I'm a big buy. I can't believe we have these musical illiterates here. You've got another thing coming; that was going to be the song for my next email. My emails have a song. So, governor, did you think you were going to veto this budget? You thought you were going to amend it 213 times? You've got another thing coming. So I am a big buy of Judas Priest. I think it is going to be a fun show. A lot of Beavis and buttheads will make for some good people watching such a concert. I wish that you didn't have to go to Maryland to watch that, but what are you going to do?
Michael Pope
Our final topic for today is ceremonial bill signings. This week, the governor did a ceremonial signing of the budget in the old House Chamber. I was there for it. It was really quite something. Leader Scott Surovell, buy, sell, or hold on ceremonial signings?
Scott Surovell
I want to burn them all down, man. So sell on that and light them on fire. I'm so tired of all the fake bill signings and the fake vetoes. The Governor was vetoing bills before they were communicated to him. There were ceremonial vetoes; there are ceremonial bill signings now, I guess. We're having ceremonial threats to our college campuses, too. I just wish we had some intellectually honest moments outside of the administration. So people can understand how the process really works, like how they were taught in Schoolhouse Rock. A bill has to pass each chamber, and then somebody hands it to the governor, who gets to sign it. And then he gets to say, Look, I'm a law. It doesn't happen as fast as the governor wants to for the press cycle. I'm not a fan of the confusion he's creating.
Michael Pope
On the topic of ceremonial vetoes, I went to a Governor McAuliffe event at Alexandria City Hall, where he ceremonially vetoed a bill. That's a thing. Sarah Taylor, should you buy, sell, or hold on to the ceremonial bill signing?
Sarah Graham Taylor
I am a buy on the Sarah and a sell on the monial. Oh, wait, that's not what you're getting at, got it. I think governors and administrations should be focused on governing and less on ceremony. If there are opportunities to talk about what is going on, a chance actually to negotiate, or to do the work of governing, I think that time is better spent than in ceremonial opportunities of all kinds.
Michael Pope
All right, Delegate Marcus Simon, buy, sell, or hold on to the ceremonial bill signing?
Marcus Simon
I'll be very honest with you. I am a buy when we have Democratic governors. And I am a sell when we have Republican governors. Mostly, it's because when we do it, we're classy about it. We do it at the appropriate time. When Governor Northam and Governor McAuliffe didn't spend all summer going on a tour doing ceremonial bill signings after the bills had been communicated to them after it all happened. Your nice pens can be put in a box and displayed in your office. Now that I'm actually getting some of my bills signed, which for the first nine years of my career never happened, I'm probably a buy. I do think that there's a way to do it the right way to do it. I think it's important and valuable. We do this for a living. We pass bills all the time while others are working with advocates on this one particular issue. And the work they've done to get this bill passed is the work of a lifetime for them. And I think they ought to have a little bit of pomp and circumstance and not just get an email alert. Hey, your bills are law now. I think having them come to the mansion, have a good time, and get a pen to take home with them is probably valuable. I do like it better when Democrats do it. So I'm still a buy.
Michael Pope
Delegate Alfonso Lopez, you are the last to respond to this one. Should we buy, sell, or hold on to the ceremonial bill signing?
Alfonso Lopez
I'm a buy for ceremonial bill signings. I agree with Marcus, Scott, and Sarah; when you have folks who've put decades into getting something passed, it must be recognized and done properly, especially when it's fairly consequential legislation, like the DREAM Act or the Virginia Clean Economy Act. At the same time, I'm a big sell when it's fairly obvious that a governor is doing something solely to make sure it gets into a new cycle and that he can claim credit for something that he said was a backward budget. Tell me where there's much of a difference between what he called the backward budget and what is apparently now a forward budget. So I'm a big sell on that aspect of it. Posturing for credit is something I'm a big sell on.
Michael Pope
You have been listening to the Pod Virginia All-Stars, the classic edition. Special thanks to Leader Scott Surovell for opening up his office on the 14th floor to record this episode. We will do this again the next time there's a special session.
