IN THE NEWS:


Governor Glenn Youngkin has removed "equity" from the title of his director of diversity, equity and inclusion, calling the term "confusing." But experts say the term is important to capture the unequal playing field in the United States, and the governor now faces calls for his DOI chief to resign.

The latest campaign finance disclosures show several incumbent members are falling behind the competition: Senator Joe Morrissey, Senator Amanda Chase and Delegate Kelly Convirs-Fowler. Some say that shows controversial candidates are not appealing to the donor base.

Public funds are for public schools. That's the message from supporters of Virginia schools, who say the governor should not be appropriating money from the lab school fund to private institutions.


At the Watercooler:
- Adult video sites are threatening to pull out of Virginia
- Arlington County Board Elections and the "missing middle"


TRIVIA: Which British monarch was the first to call Virginia his “old dominion”?

Episode Transcript

Michael Pope 

I'm Michael Pope.

Thomas Bowman  

I'm Tom Bowman.

Michael Pope  

And this is Pod Virginia, a podcast that's getting ready for Mother's Day. So Mother's Day is coming up. But Thomas, the calendar is jam-packed with other days this week; there's Jamestown Day and Vietnam Human Rights Day. And then Friday is Chronic Fatigue and Immune Dysfunction Syndrome Awareness Day, plus Military Spouses Appreciation Day. So we've got a really busy week coming up here. 

Thomas Bowman  

What no holiday for the military spouse from Vietnam with chronic fatigue and immune dysfunction syndrome.

Michael Pope  

Yeah, I mean, all these days are really kind of crazy. Like if you think about the holiday for spouses of military officials who don't respect the human rights of Vietnam, I mean, you can kind of puzzle them together as kind of a super holiday.

Thomas Bowman  

As we were planning this episode, we actually had to look up what Jamestown Day actually is. 

Michael Pope  

Yeah, Jamestown day, like, what the heck is that? So we looked at doing it, and it's kind of like, maybe you could describe it as like a ComiCon for colonial history. So like, when people get dressed up in colonial outfits and oppress people.

Thomas Bowman  

The OG story of Captain America.

Michael Pope  

So patriotic, let's get to the news. Diversity, something, and Inclusion. So when Governor Glenn Youngkin was appointing people to his administration, he changed a job title that really attracted a lot of attention. He removed the word equity from the Director of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion. 

Glenn Youngkin  

I think we just have a very confusing word in the word equity.

Thomas Bowman  

That was the Governor at a press conference last year when he was trying to remove equity from the classroom. He's apparently so confused by it that he changed the whole title of the Department. He has a Director of Diversity, opportunity, and Inclusion. Opportunity is a word everyone understands, especially if you're white, male, cis, and straight, and opportunities are more or less just handed out.

Michael Pope  

Yeah, confusing is the operative word there. So now the Governor's Director of Diversity, opportunity, and Inclusion. Martin Brown says that DEI is dead. So it's time for a funeral for DEI. So one of the people I spoke to about that last week was Jatia Wrighten at Virginia Commonwealth University; she studies the political behavior of marginalized people.

Jatia Wrighten  

Equity is one of those words that really does allow people who want to leverage hate to be really effective in doing so because most people read equity, and they think something else.

Michael Pope  

She says the fear is that people are receiving benefits they have not earned.

Jatia Wrighten  

The problem is that there is no such thing as a level playing field in the United States. There is a long history of exclusion and discrimination and racism and sexism that makes it quite difficult for different people to achieve or even to gain these sorts of opportunities.

Michael Pope  

So Martin Brown says DEI is dead, but predictions of the death of DEI might have been premature because now the Governor is facing calls for his Director of Diversity, Opportunity, and Inclusion to resign.

Thomas Bowman  

That sounds like a real opportunity to get somebody more qualified in the role, Michael.

Michael Pope  

There's so much going on here. It's really interesting that the word equity has become a target, and I really have to think about the role of Christopher Ruffo. This is a conservative activist with the Manhattan Institute. And he really crafted people's perceptions around critical race theory and the fear of CRT in a way that was so successful that he basically declared victory and decided to move on to a new target, which is why we're now talking about equity in general and DEI specifically least so expect to see that in the upcoming campaign cycle, there are lots of attacks on DEI.

Thomas Bowman  

They know what equity means. But they are banking that you don't know what equity means. And that's deliberate. Because they're trying to go after everything that helps people think about things from someone else's point of view, otherwise known as empathy. And confusing is an interesting word here, Michael, that word is a word that leverages hate.

Michael Pope  

So confusing is a really interesting word. And you can think about it as giving a license to launder hate. It's also worth pointing out that we have seen similar efforts in Florida. You know, just recently, the Florida House of Representatives approved a bill to prohibit teaching in higher education about equity. And so there are a lot of professors like Jatia Wrighten, who would have a real hard time in Florida and probably would leave Florida. In my personal life, because I used to live in Florida know several people in higher education who are trying to get out of the state. So if something like that were to happen in Virginia, people like to write and would probably find themselves in the crosshairs of that.

Thomas Bowman  

It's like that old Twain quote says, Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to reflect. And whenever you find yourself on the side of Florida, it's time to question. Oh, God, what have I done.

Michael Pope  

If you're agreeing with whatever's going on in Florida, something has gone wrong. Alright, let's move on to our next story. Incumbents are in trouble, so when an incumbent member of the General Assembly is being outraised by a challenger, that's a red flag. And after all, money talks and bullshit walks.

Thomas Bowman  

And this time, money is telling some incumbents we don't like you anymore.

Michael Pope  

Yeah, most incumbents actually are raising huge amounts of cash, so most incumbents do not have a problem despite the fact they cannot raise money during the General Assembly session legally. Anyway. And so the latest campaign finance disclosures show a while most incumbents are fine, there are a few who are fallen behind the competition. Senator Joe Morrissey, Senator Amanda Chase, and Delegate Kelly Converse Fowler. So that shows controversial candidates are not appealing to the donor base, says our friend of the show David Ramadan at George Mason University Schar School.

David Ramadan  

All three of those candidates have dealt with controversy. All three of those candidates have had issues, and that's why the donor base is looking at alternative candidates. So these incumbents buck the underperformance in raising money for their primary.

Thomas Bowman  

They've all faced major controversies relative to Virginia and some minor ones if you're Joe Morrissey. But money isn't everything J Miles Coleman at the UVA Center for Politics says Amanda Chase might still be able to win despite coming in last place for fundraising.

J. Miles Coleman  

She was outraised by her two main opponents. But something I think is working in Chase's favor is, you know, this is a multiway race. It's not just one-on-one. 

Michael Pope  

Money isn't everything. So those are the three incumbents who are being outraged by the challengers in the upcoming primary. There are two other incumbents who are also falling behind. But I put them in a different category because they are Senator Lionel Spruill and Delegate Murray March. Both of them are incumbents, but they are also facing other incumbents because of those new court-drawn maps. So the interesting similarity here between these three people we're talking about who have been outraised in fundraising is that they are so controversial. You know, Amanda Chase is a legendary figure of the General Assembly, one of the most talked about people on a national scale certainly. Joe Morrissey is so legendary that there will probably be all kinds of books, and I mean, can you imagine a Broadway play by Joe Morrissey and Kelly Converse Fowler has caused her own, you know, issues in the Democratic caucus with that picture of her and Marie March. So these are three of the most controversial people in Richmond. So it is interesting that they're the incumbents that are having a hard time raising money.

Thomas Bowman  

Yeah, this seems like the setup to a joke. Michael, Amanda Chase, Joe Morrissey, and Kelly Fowler walk into a bar. 

Michael Pope  

Can you imagine the bar? Some bar.

Thomas Bowman  

Joe Morrissey is not allowed in the bar, though.

Michael Pope  

So Amanda Chase is in a multiway race. This is a district that is all in Chesterfield. It's like 91% Chesterfield. Very kind of Republican politics. Tina Ramirez has raised the most money for Glenn Sturtevant, of course, the former incumbent. And so there's a lot going on; it's a three-way race. So the politics are really different in this particular race than in a lot of the other ones. Let's move on to our next story. Following the money, public funds are for public schools. That's the message from supporters of Virginia schools who say the Governor should not be appropriating money from the lab school fund for private institutions. James Fetterman at the Virginia Education Association says it's all about election-year politics.

James Fetterman  

Given Youngkin's campaign promises around expanding school choice and his presidential ambitions. You know, it's obvious why his administration would aggressively push to expand lab schools, even to non-qualifying institutions, for the grant money. And that's because they want to point, to lots of new startup lab schools in the state, you know, during the state election time.

Thomas Bowman  

Laura Goren at the Commonwealth Institute says public funds should not go to private schools, including private HBCUs.

Laura Goren  

It's important, in our view, that we prioritize public institutions. And if we look at our public HBCUs, they're doing extremely important work in terms of college access. And we do think that public dollars should be going first to those public institutions.

Michael Pope  

In a written statement, Education Secretary Aimee Guidera says the expansion of eligibility was made to ensure that every Virginia student has access to innovative and high-quality education that prepares them for success in life. So really interesting debate here about the use of money out of the lab school fund because the Governor really wants to have this money go to private institutions. Which, by the way, includes HBCUs.

Thomas Bowman  

How much money are we actually talking about here, Michael?

Michael Pope  

We're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars for specific institutions. So if you look at the private HBCUs in Virginia, Virginia Union University would get $200,000, Hampton University submitted an application, and that's been approved for a planning grant. There's also a related issue here of other non-qualifying institutions. So non-four-year institutions that don't offer a bachelor's degree would include many of the community colleges in Virginia; I think, actually, all the community colleges in Virginia. So there is a really interesting back and forth here about which institutions actually are eligible for this funding. And the Governor, when he was on the campaign trail, he talked about money for expanding school choice, and that meant the potential for, you know, public funds, potentially going to private institutions, including private HBCUs.

Thomas Bowman  

So how do we think this is gonna play out because we don't even have a real budget yet. 

Michael Pope  

The budget mess just goes on and on and on. And this is one of the many things that people that the budget and conferees have to come to some conclusion on. But now, of course, they're in a situation where there's uncertainty at the federal level, and we don't really know what's going to happen with the federal budget, and perhaps even defaulting, the federal government would make local finance very difficult. So it's a mess. I mean, we really actually are not expecting a budget resolution until the last possible moment. Some of our listeners will remember in the Kane administration, there was a budget standoff that went into the last possible hours in very late June. I think that's probably where we're headed with this. And one of the many things that they're going back and forth about, perhaps in this secret closed door behind scenes budget, conferees negotiation, is this issue of money from funds, like the lab school fund going to private institutions,

Thomas Bowman  

You know, what's interesting about these amounts, because they're no more than $200,000 per school, it's not really enough to do anything, but it is an aggregate over $1.6 million, which could have done something for one or two of those schools. But $200,000, if you think about it, you're not going to be able to hire more than one ish professor on that amount of money when you include benefits for that professor. And so what is this actually accomplishing because the 200 Grand does not go very far. It seems like a lot of money until you have 200 Grand. 

Michael Pope  

Well, keep in mind it's a precedent. It's the camel's nose under the tent. You could use this to fund private institutions in the future because it's already happened. 

Thomas Bowman  

And that's the takeaway is that sometimes you just want to get the language in there. And then you can come back later and polish it to be the language you actually wanted the first time. 

Michael Pope  

Well, let's take a break. When we come back. We are going to play around. Have trivia and read your tweets.

Alright, so we're back on Pod Virginia. And we're going to play a round of trivia. Last week, we asked you about getting high. What is the highest peak in Virginia? That was the trivia question, what was what's the highest peak in Virginia? So Thomas, what's the answer to our trivia question?

Thomas Bowman  

The answer is Mount Rogers, which is 5,728 feet high.

Michael Pope  

So congratulations to Matthew Montgomery, who was the first person to chime in with the correct answer on Twitter. So Matthew Montgomery, you won, well, nothing.

Thomas Bowman  

Hey. It's nothing. They want to shout out on the show. They get bragging rights.

Michael Pope  

Bragging rights. Yeah, they could totally brag about that. So yeah, Matthew Montgomery, you can tell all your friends and family to listen to Pod Virginia because it's the only podcast where you're gonna get to hear trivia questions like this one.

Thomas Bowman  

And also, shout out to the climate and clean energy working group, which posted the right answer and a great pic from the top of Mount Rogers. We should repost that if we haven't already.

Michael Pope  

Yeah, totally. Um, you know, maybe we've got this trivia game here. Perhaps we could have some sort of virtual prizes, maybe a t-shirt that says my friends went to Jamestown Day, and all I got was being called a witch and tossed in a river. 

Thomas Bowman  

Prizes are gonna have to go through legal, of course, before we can actually offer them. 

Michael Pope  

Oh, well, that's gonna take forever. 

Thomas Bowman  

So what's our trivia for this week? 

Michael Pope  

This is a really fun one. Alright, our trivia question for next week, which British monarch was the first to call Virginia his Old Dominion. So even today, we still call Virginia the Old Dominion. It's the nickname of the state. Florida's the Sunshine State. Maryland is the Free State. Virginia is the Old Dominion. And so, who was the first guy to call it the Old Dominion? Which British monarch? That is our trivia question, appropriate for us this past weekend when we all had all that British pomp and circumstance. 

Thomas Bowman  

All right. Well, Michael, we should open up our listener mailbag. So here's what you're talking about this week. Pod Virginia superfan Marcus Simon chimed in to take a victory lap on winning the trivia contest last week. He said great episode again. I'll cherish my prize for being correct forever.

Michael Pope  

Yeah, the real prize for Marcus Simon is being correct. 

Thomas Bowman  

For Marcus Simon, the real prize is telling everyone you're correct.

Michael Pope  

Yeah, he gets to tell everybody that he is correct. The huge prize, huge prize in the mind of Marcus Simon

Thomas Bowman  

And a rare prize from Marcus too.

Michael Pope  

So we got a prize last week from Justice Forward Virginia, which gave us a shout-out when a user on Twitter, Guy Hamilton-Smith, asked for podcast recommendations. So Justice Forward Virginia suggested us on Twitter, so if you are listening to this and you're a first-time listener because of that exchange, welcome. We're glad that you're here, and we hope that you'll come back next Thursday, later this week, for our next podcast. So there are so many podcasts out there that are great, right, Thomas?

Thomas Bowman  

Yeah, you know what? I'm a big fan of and listened to everyone in Bold Virginia.  

Michael Pope  

Bold Virginia, who's the host of both Virginia? 

Thomas Bowman  

Well, they've got a great new host, our friend Aryan Balu, so congratulations to Aaryan, who is also our producer. Is there collusion? Is there no collusion? Who knows?

Michael Pope  

It does seem like a fair amount of collusion there, doesn't it?

Aaryan Balu  

Editor Aryan is cutting in here to say, first of all, thanks, Thomas and Michael, from the bottom of my heart, for the shout-out you gave to our show. One minor note, though. It's called Bold Dominion, not Bold Virginia. You might note it as a cheeky play on the nickname for Virginia, but then Thomas and Michael talked for about five minutes to go on the show. But thanks for the opportunity to correct you guys. And for the chance to tell you, the listener, that you can find Bold Dominion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever fine podcasts are served up. And thanks, Thomas and Michael, for showing off just how carefully you listen to our little show. Alright, now back to these two goofballs.

Michael Pope  

Speaking of collusion, Chaz Nutteycombe also has a podcast, the CNalysis podcast, so you definitely want to check out there's a group Right knew about Virginia politics. He had Chaz Nutteycombe had Thomas Turner on, and you definitely want to check that out. So check-outCNalysis podcast. 

Thomas Bowman  

And Michael, you are also on the full disclosure podcast with Robin Facade. And that episode was about the election of 2023 and featured Jeff Schapiro at the Richmond Times Dispatch.

Michael Pope  

Yeah, yeah. Jeff Schapiro and I appeared on Robin Farzad's podcast Full Disclosure. So you definitely want to check that out. If you've got a moment, Plus our friend Victoria Burke. She's got a great podcast, the Burke file. So you want to go there and check that out because the latest episode is actually about this really interesting primary fight here between Louise Lucas and Lionel Spruill. So definitely check out the Burke file podcast.

Thomas Bowman  

Michael, I listen to Good Morning RVA. Pretty much every day. It's our daily staple and has a great source of topics for this water cooler.

Michael Pope  

Yeah, yeah. I love the way he says water cooler. Also, check out Our Seat at the Table; this is the politics podcast with the next generation of Virginia Politico; they've got a great new podcast with Delegates to Suhas Subramanyam, so definitely, you want to check that out? Also, so let's head over to the water cooler. Thomas, what's the latest? Are we hearing around the water cooler?

Thomas Bowman  

Michael, you're never gonna guess that porn sites are threatening to [actually pull out for once this time; pull out of Virginia. 

Michael Pope  

That's Yikes. 

Thomas Bowman  

So I guess, Michael, that these sites have become too accessible for Glenn Youngkin. And the legislature and they must prefer everything of a risky nature to remain private, so private that he considered public education money, perhaps.

Michael Pope  

Maybe he could do something for Jamestown.

Thomas Bowman  

So anyway, they're threatening to pull out of Virginia because Virginia created that stupid law that we talked about requiring all sites that host, let's just call it, mature content to verify the age of their users so that kids can't get porn. So apparently, Glenn Youngkin has never been on the internet because the internet is for porn. 

Michael Pope  

I was in the Senate chamber when they were debating this amendment. And one of the people who spoke out against this was Senator Chap Peterson, who disagreed with the idea of giving a private right to action. So you can sue you can bring a lawsuit if you can prove that this internet company that could be, I guess, anywhere over the world, has violated the law by not verifying the age of the person who is receiving the electronic content. So Chap Peterson was making the argument that that's a horrible cause for a private right of action, and you're gonna get all kinds of crazy lawsuits. And I think there is another state I think Utah did this. 

Thomas Bowman  

Yes. 

Michael Pope  

And so now there is a discussion about having that happen here in Virginia as well.

Thomas Bowman  

Alright. What about you, Michael? What are you hearing about the water cooler? 

Michael Pope  

Last week, I moderated a forum of Democrats who are running for the Arlington County Board. And wow, that was really interesting. You know, Thomas, the politics in Arlington are kind of dominated by this discussion about the missing middle. This is kind of a zoning change that would allow all kinds of housing to be constructed. There is a housing crunch, of course, in Northern Virginia, and the cost of housing is very high. And so there was this concern that there were lots of people who were being priced out of Arlington, and the county needed this missing middle. And there is some feeling that the county government may have gone too far with discussions. They were talking about taking properties and making them a duplex, a three-Plex, a four-Plex, or a five-Plex. And then things got kind of tricky. When you start talking about six-Plex and seven-Plex and eight-Plex, they were actually talking about eight-Plex zoning these things. And so there was a thought that the county government might have gone a little too far. And so you get the sense from the candidates that so if you think if you're a Democratic primary voter and you think the county may have gone too far, you might like the ticket of Natalie Roy and Susan Cunningham for these two seats. These are two vacant seats here on their own county board. So that's kind of one scenario. And then there's another scenario where the missing middle might not dominate politics as much as some people think it might. And you'll have a much more kind of traditional primary election with the traditional kinds of people that went primaries for the Arlington County Board. And then you would get this candidate Maureen Coffey, so young renter in Arlington, Gen Z. She has the support of Katie Crystal, she might win in that scenario, and then JD Spain also Who has some popularity and has the kind of resume of someone who might win in a more traditional Arlington political scene that's not dominated by missing middle. So on top of all of these dynamics, there's another dynamic, which is ranked-choice voting. So the Arlington Democrats get to choose two candidates here for these two positions that are vacating, and they get to rank them. So if you're an Arlington Democrat, I guess, theoretically, you could end up voting for all six of these candidates.

Thomas Bowman  

Interesting. Well, Michael, let's move on to some birthdays. 

Michael Pope  

Yes, lots of birthdays to celebrate this week.

Thomas Bowman  

Today. Monday, May 8th, is the birthday of delegate Jeff Bourne from Richmond.

Michael Pope  

Wednesday, May 10th. It is the birthday of Deputy Secretary of Commerce and Trade Garrison Coward.

Thomas Bowman  

It also happens to be the birthday of former Delegate Mark Keam from Fairfax County.

Michael Pope  

Thursday, May 11th, is the birthday of delegate Matt Ferris of Campbell County.

Thomas Bowman  

 and then Sunday, May 14th, is Mother's Day, so get your flowers ready.

Michael Pope  

So that's it for this week's episode of Pod Virginia. Don't forget to check out our website and follow us on social media for more updates and discussions on Virginia politics.