Michael Pope

Welcome to Transition Virginia, the podcast that documents the ongoing transition of power in Virginia. I'm Michael Pope.

Thomas Bowman

And I'm Thomas Bowman. And before we begin, we've got a little housekeeping to do and make an announcement. Michael Pope, congratulations are in order. You were just elected the President of the Virginia Capitol Correspondents Association. How do you feel?

Michael Pope

Apprehensive because I don't want to screw it up. Actually, you know, the Virginia Capitol Correspondents Association doesn't really do all that much stuff. In fact, its real chief purpose is when things go bad, the Capitol Correspondents Association sort of steps in to try to fix things. Best example of this, in recent memory, is of course, when the Senate Majority Leader kicked the press out of the Senate chamber and the Capitol Correspondence Association did a lot of negotiating and behind the scenes kind of arm twisting to get the press back in the Senate. And then of course, when the pandemic happened, the Capitol Corresponds Association negotiated with the House Clerk and the Senate Clerk to make sure that there was access for the press whenever they were meeting outside of the Capitol Building. And so yeah, it is a little more organizational heavy than I'm used to doing. So hopefully, I won't screw it up too much. But enough of that. Today in the podcast, we're talking about Republican candidates for Lieutenant Governor.

Thomas Bowman

It's a crowded field, although not quite as crowded as the cast of Democrats running for Lieutenant Governor. Republicans will select their candidate for the November election in a May 8 convention.

Michael Pope

Unlike other conventions, this one won't be at a single location, like the Richmond Coliseum. It'll be at 37 separate locations spread all the way throughout Virginia. And it'll also have ranked choice voting, so none of that stuff with a dark horse candidate emerging after several ballots.

Thomas Bowman

So who are all these Republicans vying for office? Don't worry, Transition Virginia has you covered. We're going to take a look at who these people are and why they're running.

Michael Pope

And we have a friend of the podcast to help us out. He's a former Republican member of the House of Delegates. He's now at the Shara School of Policy and Government at George Mason University, David Ramadan, thanks for joining us.

David Ramadan

Good to be back with you. And I have a question there, Michael?

Michael Pope

Yes.

David Ramadan

Does being elected to President of the Virginia Capitol Correspondents Association give you privileges to get into Amanda Chase's plexibox on the Senate floor?

Thomas Bowman

Why would you want to?

Michael Pope

You know, during the Coronavirus, I studiously avoided going down to Richmond, haven't really left Alexandria since the pandemic. There were press areas in the makeshift Senate chamber there in the Science Museum, but I don't think the press was allowed to walk around this, the actual Senate floor so that would be a no. No access to the plexiglass.

Thomas Bowman

Does it give you special access to conference committees, Michael?

Michael Pope

I- You better believe I'm gonna be pushing for that and won't shut up about it all year long. But anyway, let's start with Tim Hugo. Now this is the longtime member of the House of Delegates from Clifton. He was first elected in 2002 in a special election after Jay O'Brian was elected to the State Senate. So Hugo spent like almost 20 years in the House, eventually becoming the Republican Caucus Chairman. In 2019, he was ousted by Democrat Dan Helmer. Now on the campaign trail, he talks about being pro life and helping to close an abortion clinic near his home. He's probably the most Trumpy of the candidates in the race, although he doesn't talk about Trump explicitly, but he hits on all those hot button MAGA issues from canceled culture to defund the police. Tim Hugo says, "Democrats don't want to make America great again."

Tim Hugo

They don't like us. They don't like the way we preach. They don't like the way we raise our children. They don't like the way we marry. They don't like anything about us.

Michael Pope

David Ramadan, is that a message that's going to work?

David Ramadan

For the convention it will. Look, Tim Hugo is a conservative member through and through, held several positions on the Hill in Congress. He's a veteran, and a political veteran, and military veteran, political veteran, ran for the House and served for 17 years. As you mentioned, he made it to the number three position in the Virginia House Republican Caucus as the Caucus Chair, graduate of William and Mary, fellowship at the Kennedy School. He truly is, through and through, a political old comer who knows how to navigate the system and in a convention setting, and in the atmosphere that the Republican Party is currently in today, this is a message that will resonate, however, will make it a little harder as well, in the General after one wins the convention, to try to swing back towards the middle with recording such as the ones you just played.

Thomas Bowman

Hugo is going to be good at raising money, too. He was notoriously good at it as the Republican Caucus Chair to the point where when he almost lost in the previous 2017 election, I actually had a lobbyist comment that if they had known, we were going to come this close to beating Tim Hugo in 2017, they would have come up to Centreville and knocked doors themselves.

David Ramadan

And an excellent legislator. Not only he is a good political candidate, but he was an excellent legislator. He was able to to work through, he actually worked across the aisle. And he was one of the few that could work across the hall, not just across the aisle. He had great relationships on the Senate side and was able to navigate those issues that consistently exists between the House and the Senate. The biggest issues and disputes normally happen between the House in the Senate. Hugo is one of the few, in the Republican Caucus, that was able to work those problems and bridge between both parties.

Michael Pope

Now his pitch to voters is that he's a Republican who can win in Northern Virginia, where he held that House seat for almost 20 years. Now, Dan Helmer did beat him in 2019 but Hugo was there for a long time and on the campaign trail, he's against abortion rights and for gun rights. He voted against expanding Medicaid and he wants to undo all those things that Democrats have accomplished since they seized control the General Assembly last year. This is Hugo on that.

Tim Hugo

You never thought a decade ago, or 15 years ago, that you would have Democrats talking casually about infanticide. You never thought you'd have Beto O'Rourke going door to door against us to talk about taking our guns. And you never thought she taught me talking about defunding police. But that's what the Democrats are doing now.

Michael Pope

Can Hugo win running against Beto O'Rourke?

David Ramadan

In a convention, yes. These are absolute hot buttons for the Republican electorate. This is a very narrow universe of the citizens of Virginia, who are going to participate in this process, even though this is an unassembled convention, meaning it's not in one location, but in 37 locations across the Commonwealth. This is absolutely a winning message for him in the convention running against AOC and Beto O'Rourke. Again, this will be problematic in the General election after, if and after he wins, and he is the the front runner by all means among the Republicans today.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, you know, it's important to point out that Republicans have had these positions on social issues for going on 20 years now. And it's done nothing but lose them elections in the last decade. They've already lost the suburbs on this message, and you can't win a General election, if you can't win the suburbs.

David Ramadan

As I said, yep. No disagreement there.

Michael Pope

You know, one issue that Hugo kind of talks about, that we actually have are hearing from a lot of candidates, and this will come up as a running theme here, is Critical Race Theory, which is essentially a reexamination of how we view the role of race in history. Hugo takes this ball and runs with it.

Tim Hugo

They want to make sure that our kids are indoctrinated in elementary school, that our kids are indoctrinated in the college classroom, and that your voice is censored. I believe that. I know that and I see it, we see it every day. We do see it with VCDL. We do see it with the New York Post which had a story about Hunter Biden which was, founded, that paper was founded by Alexander Hamilton, who wrote the Federalist Papers, who talked about the Constitution, who understood what we were trying to do.

Michael Pope

Okay so it's true that Alexander Hamilton founded the New York Post but that doesn't make Rupert Murdoch a founding father and headless body and the topless bar isn't quite federalist 51. Also, that story on Hunter Biden was so sketchy, that The New York Post reporters who worked on it, refused to put their byline on it. Okay so having said all that, getting that all that off my chest, what do we make here of Hugo's stream of consciousness rant here, going from Critical Race Theory, to big tech, to Hunter Biden? What does this say about Hugo's pitch to voters?

David Ramadan

It actually says quite a bit about where the Republican electorate are. Whether this was, you could take this quote and put it under any of the Republican candidates and it could fit, regardless who said it. The question here is not what are these individual candidates saying, the question in my mind is where are the electorate on the Republican side today, and after 2020, nothing has changed. On the contrary, it seems that what we're seeing among the Republican electorate is more of the Trump era versus less of the Trump era and that is why these candidates are chatting about these subjects. This is not, I know Tim Hugo well, Tim Hugo is a good friend of mine, and this is these are not the discussions that you would hear from Tim, or Glenn Davis, or or Puneet, Ahluwalia or or or I would I would guess the other candidates, if you were sitting having a beer, or smoking a cigar with them, or having a meal, or in the confines of Jefferson's Capitol, these are not the issues that are on their mind, these are not, in my from my experience, are not their political day in day out fights, or ideological fights, or priorities, these are simply today the subject matter of where the electorate is after four years of a charge Trump era, that is forcing all of these candidates to spend their time talking about indoctrinations, and censorship in schools and Alexander Hamilton Federalist Papers related to the New York Post.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah we should have warned our listeners to get their bingo cards ready because all he did in that stream of consciousness was list out a bunch of buzzwords that might resonate with the base and it is a cynical play because he doesn't think or talk like that behind closed doors, only when he's campaigning. So, you know, I was like really have an issue with confusing indoctrination for education because his philosophy, extreme conservative philosophy, can't withstand a marketplace of ideas and so they're trying to shut themselves out from institutions of higher learning and I don't think that any party is well served by pushing out smart, bright people, with advanced education degrees.

Michael Pope

Okay well you know who's not moving to the right and trying to be the most conservative, most Trumpy candidate is Glenn Davis. Now he's the only, of the all of these candidates, who is currently an elected official. He's currently a member of the House of Delegates representing Virginia Beach. Now he was a staffer for Bob McDonald way back in the day, so yay for staffers. In 2008, Davis was elected to the Virginia Beach City Council and then he was elected to the House in 2013. Now one thing about Davis, that makes him really stand out in this field, is that he's pitching himself as a candidate who will go down the middle, all the other candidates are trying to outflank each other on the right, but here's Davis setting his sights right down the middle.

Glenn Davis

Look, everyone can repeat god, guns, and Glenn, that's not that hard. We can get the base riled up. I want to go to the areas that are non traditional Republican voters. I want to go to the middle, because the middle is where you win elections, and the middle is where a lot of Republicans have gotten way too uncomfortable being, and that's why we lose.

Michael Pope

This seems like a really risky strategy. David Ramadan, is this a message that's going to work in a Republican convention?

David Ramadan

No, it will not, but Glenn has no other choice but to do this, not only because he believes it and he's right in the General election, the only way a Republican could win, even though it's still it very far, could in today's general atmosphere regardless who the Republican is, the Republican could win if a Republican is in the middle, in the General election. However, for Glenn, he has no other choice but to do this, in addition to being right about the general. Glenn's voting record is not a solid conservative record. He has been courageous and had voted for gay rights. He had voted on labor issues, he had voted on work issues, and therefore he could not, even if he wanted to, position himself as the far right candidate. And thus, he is going for, you know, a Hail Mary, in my mind here. Glenn is also a friend of mine. He was a member of my small business development Caucus in the House, and he's going for a Hail Mary on okay, if the vote is split, among all the ones that are splitting the right vote, is there a chance of people going for the number two on the ballot? Are they gonna divide enough that vote that he may be able to squeeze in? And if all fails, then I'll nominate David Ramadan for LG, as I as I joked with him on Twitter yesterday, when his staff hashtagged David for LG instead of Davis for LG.

Thomas Bowman

You know, this is probably not the worst strategy for a ranked choice ballot. I mentioned just a minute ago that you need to win the suburbs in order to win an election. And yeah, he is definitely not the most conservative, he is not ideologically partisan, and that is gonna play well in the moderate suburbs. You know, the problem he has is just one of numbers. The number of voters who identify Republican over the last four years have diminished to the point that it's just, you know, the hardcore extreme believers. So will any of those people that Glenn Davis really needs to win and list him as number one or two on their ballot, even be there in the first place? It's an open question.

Michael Pope

Yeah, the whole rank choice dynamic is all theoretical at this point. We really haven't seen it play out this way. So that- it's gonna be fascinating to watch. Now, Glenn Davis, like many of these candidates, this is another running theme that we'll have, many of them have an immigrant story. And on the campaign trail, he talks about his great grandfather immigrating from Italy. He also talks about losing his job in 1999, and living in a one bedroom apartment where he started an IT company. He also has this story about his childhood that speaks to his agenda.

Glenn Davis

I remember being nine years old, sitting on the couch one night when the phone rang. And my dad answered it was about my Uncle William. And my Uncle William worked at a convenience store about a mile as the crow flies from where I live today. That night, it was robbed, he was taken out back, and he was murdered. And I remember everything my family said, weeks after that, they they said that he probably did it before because it was before truth in sentencing and abolition of parole. They wish my Uncle William had his firearm on him, because he still may be with us today. But they never blamed guns, they never said we needed more gun control.

Michael Pope

This is a political origin story that weaves together gun rights with truth and sentencing. Now all these candidates talk about defending the Second Amendment. But Glenn Davis has this personal story, will this resonate with voters?

David Ramadan

Yeah, it will, to a certain extent, though. Within that small universe of the Republican electorates that are gonna participate in the upcoming conventions in in May, there is a segment that are one issue voters, and that's the second amendment voters, and that will resonate. But will it be enough to win a number of those voters who are also very interested in the other social issues which Davis is not strong on? I doubt that that will be the case.

Thomas Bowman

You know, speaking as a hardcore Democrat, Glenn Davis actually gives me the least amount of heartburn. And that's simply because I've watched him work. By the way, he's been a guest on Transition Virginia before, and listens to our show regularly. And he is somebody that Democrats could negotiate with if he were to become Lieutenant Governor. So of all the Republicans in this race, I see Davis as the one that could actually bring the Republican Party forward and stand a chance of winning in the General.

Michael Pope

Now one thing that he talks about that really, I find kind of striking, is that he will, as Lieutenant Governor, he will literally use the platform of being Lieutenant Governor, as inhale actually speak out about issues there in the Senate Chamber. This is what he had to say about that.

Glenn Davis

You know, it's not just good enough for Republicans to say no. Republicans need to stand up and share why. So as Lieutenant Governor, but you'll see me from the dais up there doing that, he will say Kirk Cox talks about, you know, stepping down from the dais to give a speech about life. Well, I'll be darned if I keep my mouth shut when it comes to the Second Amendment.

Michael Pope

So what he's talking about there is in the last Session when Republicans were in power, just before they lost it all, Kirk Cox was Speaker of the House and he got down off of the dais to give a speech from his ceremonial seat on the House floor, opposing abortion rights. So if Glenn Davis is elected Lieutenant Governor, he'll literally be presiding over the Senate Sessions, where he could, theoretically, give a speech about any topic, whenever he wants. So what do we make of the potential for Glenn Davis to be disruptive on the Senate floor and giving speeches about the Second Amendment and maybe other things?

David Ramadan

A classic case of comparison, between leadership styles. Glenn mentions a famous act by former Speaker Kirk Cox, who decided to step down from the dais to speak about an important issue to him personally, and it was, I remember that speech, it was very emotional. It was very personal. However, the optics of it, and the way it was done, it actually walked down the speakership and demonstrated, really no other way to say it, but a lack of leadership by Kirk Cox at the time. It's arguably the same lack of leadership that reached a, despite how you know how good of a man he is in service, and his long term service to Virginia, and as a delegate, as a teacher, and so on. He didn't have that charisma, even seen by his, hear one of his colleagues today, former member of his Caucus who elected him speaker, saying that wasn't leadership. The new leadership or the leadership style should be using the dais and as as Lieutenant Governor, I would stand up there and do so is what Glenn Davis saying. That's a classic textual leadership comparison style that I teach to my students at George Mason at the Shar School. And that's a huge difference between you'd say, the old guard and the new guard among Virginia Republicans, even though they're both running at the same time today, the old guard and the new guard are both still competing for positions in leadership of this party, regardless how dwindling that universe has become.

Michael Pope

Nice plug for the Shar School.

Thomas Bowman

You know what Michael and David, this statement by Glenn Davis here, actually reminds me a lot of what Mark Levine said he would do if elected Lieutenant Governor, which was turn it into more of a 24/7 job and go around the state stumping for the issues that matter to him. Now, Glenn isn't talking about going around the state, but he is talking about turning the LG position into something that's more activist and outspoken than traditionally it has been in the past. Now, all that said, you know, no battle plan survives first contact with the enemy. And the enemy there is definitely going to be both Tommy Norman and Dick Saslaw who have no interest in letting the LG extend the already painfully long Senate Sessions.

Michael Pope

I would make an amendment to that which is I think that real enemy there would be the Clerk of the Senate, who would not like the Senate Chamber being transformed into a platform for the Lieutenant Governor to say whatever the heck he wanted to say.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, before you can step down from the dais you got to get past Susan Shar.

David Ramadan

I will amend your amendment there because Madam Clerk is no enemy to anyone, but an absolute steward of that of that body and she truly keeps them all in line.

Michael Pope

I would agree with you 100%. And I certainly don't want to get on the wrong side of the Clerk, especially my new role is the Head of the Capitol Correspondents Association. I mean, just my point was, I think she would not appreciate the, you know, the Sessions being hijacked by someone who wants to make a lot of speeches.

David Ramadan

Yeah. However, the fact of the matter is, should he or anyone who becomes LG decide, that they're going to use the dais for that, the rules allows them, they're in control of that dais. They cannot stop them from speaking, they can object majority/minority leader can object all they want. Madam Clerk could show her disappointment and, you know, could could use some tactical, bureaucratic ways of making a change. But the dais is in the control of the Lieutenant Governor and should Lieutenant Governor decide to make that dais a bully pulpit for discussions or for ideology or for issues, he or she can do so.

Thomas Bowman

Alright, well, let's take a break. When we come back, we'll talk about Winsome Sears, Lance Allen, Puneet Ahluwalia, and Maeve Rigler.

Michael Pope

And we're back on Transition Virginia. We're talking about the Republican candidates for Lieutenant Governor. So next up is Winsome Sears. Now, she's a former member of the House of Delegates from the early 2000s. She represented the 90th District. That's a seat that was later held by Algae Howl and Joe Lindsey, and now Angela Williams Graves. Winsome Sears was first elected in 2001, and she served one term. Now she declined to seek reelection in 2003, instead, setting her sights on Congress. In 2004, she ran unsuccessfully against Congressman Bobby Scott. Then in 2018, she ran as a write in candidate for U.S. Senate as an alternative to Corey Stewart. On the campaign trail, this is how she introduces herself.

Winsome Sears

I'm so glad to be here with all of you. And I'm so glad that you put together this forum so that we have yet another opportunity to make ourselves known to our fellow Republicans our fellow conservatives, and as I say, our fellow deplorables. But then we have another word, don't we, the President Biden has now called us Neanderthals. So let's own that. We are now also Neanderthals. How do you like that?

Michael Pope

David Ramadan, how do you like that?

David Ramadan

Look, the Honorable Winsome Sears was the first Black, Republican woman elected to the House. She is a female veteran, first legal immigrant woman. So she has certainly a story to share. However, she doesn't have the name recognition in Virginia. And despite the discussions of inclusion of minorities in today's Republican Party, or the claim of inclusions of minorities in today's Republican Party, there's not really room for minorities in the current atmosphere in today's Republican Party. So despite how conservative she is, regardless of the issues that she's going to be running on, she actually faces a huge challenge in becoming known among the electorate, in attracting attention here, in competing with the other candidates, and therefore, she's an uphill candidate with a very slim chance of success.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, you know, even aside from all of that, just looking at what she's tried to do, one termer, decided rather than stay there, she'd run for Congress against Bobby Scott, then trying to run as a write in U.S. Senate candidate, she's got a history here of poor decision making and unskillful actions that should just disqualify her from the nomination altogether, in my opinion.

Michael Pope

Now, David Ramadan, on you mentioned the immigrant story. This is actually a theme with a lot of these candidates, have some sort of immigrant story in their backgrounds. Now, Winsome Sears talks about her father coming to this country in 1963, during the height of the Civil Rights struggle, this is her talking about that.

Winsome Sears

And so I said to him, 'Well, why did you come when things were bad for us?" And he said, "Because this is where the jobs were." And then I said, "But yes, but it was the height of the Civil Rights Movement." And he said, "This is where the opportunities were." And so you see, that's the reason why people still come to America, no matter what they call us, racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, bigots, misogynists, whatever.

Michael Pope

Now was starting to play, you know, some sort of patriotic music behind her discussion of America, and this is why people come to America, but then she takes this hard turn here into the racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, bigots, misogynist, whatever. So what did you make of that David Ramadan?

David Ramadan

Play into the crowd. Mostly, this is a crowd that wants to feel inclusive, yet are hardcore on some issues. A crowd that claims to be open to immigrants and open to minorities, yet refuse to admit to Islamophobia and xenophobia that exists in the party. So this is really playing to the crowd as has been the same with all of them.

Michael Pope

Except Glenn Davis.

David Ramadan

Exactly. I don't know Winsome personally, so I don't know her her normal conversations or positions outside of a campaign trail, but I would assume that that's not where she stands and I would assume that she would recognize, even though she's not admitting it here, or on the contrary, she's dismissing it here, she would be admitting to the existing problems that the Republican Party has with xenophobia and several other phobias.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah and you know as to pivoting to playing the victim, I mean self immolation might work in the context of talking to the home crowd, but you know the whole party is on fire right now, and so you're never going to be able to characterize, as a Republican, that you're a party under duress, and of a victim, when you know the party systemically victimized everybody else.

Michael Pope

Now on the issue of systemic victimization, and perhaps even systemic racism, Winsome Sears is an African American woman, so she has the ability to talk about race in a way that other candidates cannot do. Here's Sears talking about the racial politics of the Democrats.

Winsome Sears

The Democrats, they're not helping us. They're pitting the races against each other. You've heard the constant Black, White. Now it's Asian, they're speaking against Thomas Jefferson kids and their successes, and want quotas. The Democrats love folks is poison.

Michael Pope

So is this an argument that will resonate with Republican convention voters?

David Ramadan

It is and she has the ability to have that discussion, that White candidates cannot, and it will play because of the other side overplaying their hands in some discussions, overplaying their hands on the Thomas Jefferson issue, for example. We've seen over the last year, absolute extreme on these issues from both sides, and this gives Winsome a position that is unique in this race, that she can talk about it, she can discuss it, being African American, running as a Republican, and be able to criticize the other side on on these issues, without anyone be able to attack her on it because she is a minority.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah i mean it's definitely something that is going to play well with the audience, but I don't think anybody's voting on it at the Republican convention. Right, like they're voting on god, guns, abortion.

David Ramadan

No there is there is quite a bit of...this has changed. Gun rights and abortion remain to be, and schools, don't forget it open schools, today are the issues on the Republican side. So gun rights and abortion remain to be important, those are three ideological constant issues, but there are new issues that have emerged. The racism issue has emerged, and there's both accusations and denial that play in this. Minority issues has emerged and especially among African Americans and the statues and everything that we've seen over the last few years, the Confederate names, that is emerged that has become an issue that Republicans are, both Democrats and Republicans voters are voting on today for and against. And there are other emerging issues. I would say the number one issue today is reopened schools, that that is playing among the Republican electorate. Who would have thought that a year ago or six months ago that there will ever be a main issue among Republican electorate. That is actually a main issue among electorate in general now. I think by November it will be a mute issue, making it a priority now, is going to backfire after the summer because it's not going to be an issue and you go to the general election like what are you going to run on? You're going to say, "Well I was back in March, fighting for opening schools," well schools already open and vaccines are prevalent so that's not an issue then. But this has now become a real issue for the electorate on both Republican and the Democrat side, it's actually more dangerous for Democrats than for Republicans because it had created a shift in the split between the teachers unions and parents who normally used to support teachers quite a bit, teachers don't want to go back to school in general, not all, for now, and then however parents, in general, want their kids back in school for now. So these are emerging issues that electorate is going to vote on or the electorate is voting on.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, you know, it strikes me as something that's a popular political issue only in the short term. And yeah, just, you know, just look to Roanoke Public Schools, which just had to close two more high schools for in person after there were outbreaks among the kids. The reality is that until you can vaccinate kids, it's not safe to hold in person schools. So I mean, go ahead, and, you know, ask to get your medicine all you want. But the reality is, it's gonna take a few weeks till you have to re close the schools, until kids can get vaccinated, it's just not safe period. You can't compromise with the virus. It's just science.

Michael Pope

Now all the candidates actually on the campaign trail have been talking about opening schools. And they really love sort of hitting Northam for this, like as as an attack. One of those candidates is Lance Allen, our next candidate. He's an Air Force vet with no previous political experience. This is how Lance Allen describes his backstory.

Lance Allen

I grew up in the onion fields of South Georgia. My grandfather took me in when I was about six years old, my father had been murdered. And my mom, who was a victim of domestic violence, struggled real hard with raising four kids all of a sudden. And so my grandfather took two of us in and he was a hard man, but I he taught me well, he taught me the value of hard work. My one going joke is my grandfather knew about child labor laws, he really just didn't care.

Michael Pope

His father was murdered. His mother was the victim of domestic violence. There's this kind of hardscrabble existence here that's blended with some not so subtle resistance to the labor movement. What do we make of this biographical sketch?

David Ramadan

He honorable man who served his country who wants to serve further, this time instead of in uniform, but in the public service, elected office role, yet has zero experience. And despite a sad personal story that may resonate when you're knocking on a door, trying to get a vote one on one, and then may work in a general election for a small, very small, narrow segment of the electorate. It is absolutely irrelevant, despite it's important to him, and despite the tragedy that he went through, it's truly irrelevant to electability. If we're talking purely from a political science point of view.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, you know, this, this is somewhat perplexing, because I don't really understand how not abiding by child labor laws is a joke. Like, it's a weird flex, to say you were abused as a kid, right? And it's got nothing to do with whether or not he makes a good candidate. It's just, I think it speaks to his political acumen, that this is what he decides to talk about.

Michael Pope

Well, Lance Allen says Republicans have been losing in recent years, because they haven't had enough backbone. Now on the campaign trail, this is like the polar opposite of what Glenn Davis is trying to do. Here's what Allen says about that.

Lance Allen

We've tagged on issue after issue after issue, and I'm tired of compromising my values, just so we can have a little bit of power. It's time to stand up and say the things that we know as Republicans that we need to say.

Michael Pope

So is this an argument that is going to win among this convention crowd and I also, David Ramadan, I'm curious about the what Thomas brought up earlier, which is this rank choice voting. So what do you make of this, these sort of polar opposites here between what Allen is saying and what Davis is saying?

David Ramadan

This is a message targeted to the convention crowd. And even though it's the opposite of what Glenn Davis is saying, he basically joins Davis in attacking, though subtly here, the leadership of Kirk Cox. Kirk Cox has given in on tax increase in Virginia and shepherd the the highest tax increase in the transportation plan a few years ago. As Speaker, he worked on Obamacare and expanded that in Virginia. And those are two of his weaknesses in the in the Gubernatorial race on the Republican side, which obviously, Allen here is using and joining Glenn Davis in attacking his leadership. It's a message to the base. It's a message to the convention goers. I still don't think that it's enough to really get some traction here.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, he also asserts that Republicans have caved on issue after issue, but Republicans have been the party of no for over a decade now. And they didn't cave. They got beat. It's that simple.

Michael Pope

So Allen's pitching himself as the every man, the guy most like you.

Lance Allen

I don't have any big friends, I don't have any special endorsement. I'm a guy who got frustrated with politics and I decided to be the change that I wanted to see.

Michael Pope

Is it possible, David Ramadan, that the lack of endorsements could be to his benefit?

David Ramadan

After 2016 and after Donald Trump became the nominee and then the President of the United States, everything is possible nowadays. But is it likely? No, it's not.

Thomas Bowman

Alright, well let's take another break. When we come back, we'll talk about Puneet Ahluwalia, and Maeve Rigler.

Michael Pope

And we're back on Transition Virginia. We're talking about the Republican candidates for Lieutenant Governor. Now next up is businessman Puneet Ahluwalia. Now, unfortunately, he did not participate in the Chasing Freedom Forum. That's where I've been getting all the other sound bites that we've been using. So I don't have that kind of sound from him. But he does have several videos on YouTube. And this is how he introduces himself on YouTube.

Puneet Ahluwalia

Whether you're white, Black, or a first generation immigrant like me, we are all responsible to make this wonderful country work. We have to demand our leaders fight for small businesses, excellence in education, and keeping a police funded so our neighborhoods are safe.

Michael Pope

Yet another immigrant story, what do we make of this introduction?

David Ramadan

Puneet is an activist who has been involved in the Republican Party, especially in Fairfax in Northern Virginia for several years, actually, probably a couple decades. And he has been involved in trying to build the immigrant base within the Republican Party. And he has done some good work. However, unfortunately, all that work was eroded in the last few years. And whatever work he did, like the work that I did, is no longer a useful or applicable to elections today. So again, another immigrant story, another feel good story, yet an electorate that really doesn't care for it, despite claiming that they do.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, you know, I think he's got good instincts on what he wants to care about, Immigrant issues, small business, education, you know, and I would argue that police funding is a misunderstanding of what the policy is actually is being proposed. But, you know, until the Republican Party can pivot and be pro immigrant, Ahluwalia is just running in the wrong race.

Michael Pope

Now, in terms of issues, Thomas, you just mentioned several he hit up there in his YouTube introduction, but one issue that he has a whole separate YouTube video about, and again, this is a theme among these candidates, is Critical Race Theory. I have a prediction that throughout this campaign season, we're going to hear Republicans talking about Critical Race Theory. So this is what he had to say about it in his video on the subject.

Puneet Ahluwalia

Critical Race Theory says America is hopelessly tainted by the poison of racism. But how does that prepare our children to be scientists, engineers, poets, and teachers? It doesn't. Critical Race Theory has been thoroughly discredited. All it does is teach children to divide, to hate, to see themselves as victims or oppressors. It leads to lower achievement and more quarters. America can't lead the world when we don't even believe in our own values. But that's what leftist progressives want in Virginia.

Michael Pope

David Ramadan, is this really an issue that is going to resonate with people on the campaign trail? Why is everybody talking about this?

David Ramadan

Because there is a lack of resonating issues. This is this is going to backfire. No, it's not going to resonate. It's going to backfire. And this reminds me of the fight the Republican side had put up against climate change, in accepting the fact that there is climate change. Now we need a new issue. So okay, this fits within these, this this charged atmosphere. So let's play this and once one of them plays it, everybody plays it and becomes a snowball effect. It will backfire. It's not it's not a General Election issue. It's a it's probably the smallest of the smallest issue that's going to work for convention as well. And I don't think we'll hear much of it after it backfires in General elections, except among the extreme segment of the party, which Puneet is not one of. He's simply here is again, playing to the to the atmosphere of today's election, which really has been referred to as silly season before and I agree it is silly season and will continue to be silly season until the convention is over.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, I mean, I don't know how you could possibly say Critical Race Theory has been thoroughly discredited when it's white supremacy was the very tenet upon which many institutions were founded in this country. And it just is what it is, you know, it doesn't say anything about the generations who are alive today, whether they benefit from it, or they don't benefit from it. It's just a simple fact. And, yeah, it's so pervasive, that as we peel back the onion layers, we come to understand just how much it's influenced. And, to me, this strikes me similarly to you, David, this is just another Republican sticking their head in the sand.

David Ramadan

Putting on my Shar School head again, it's a theory, by definition, a theory is an idea that is open for discussion. You can agree with it, you can disagree with it, you could show evidence for or against. But this is not, you know, h2o chemistry that you could simply discredit or simply prove. So the claim that it's a discredited theory is not up to par on an intellectual level.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, I'd also point out that being on the opposite side of the Civil Rights Movement, and activists, is not where you want to be in 2021.

Michael Pope

And yet another shout out for the Shar School, excellent job, David, Ramadan, your check is in the mail. Okay, so the last candidate we're going to talk about is Maeve Rigler. Now, she did not appear on the Chasing Freedom Forum. And she doesn't have a YouTube channel. In fact, she doesn't appear to have much of an online presence at all. She did run way back in the year 2000. So more than 20 years ago, she was one of the Republicans who was hoping to take on Jim Moran in the eighth congressional district. So she's a lawyer from Alexandria, and she does have this political history where she was an unsuccessful candidate 20 years ago. David Ramadan, what do we make of this last minute entrance into the Lieutenant Governor's race?

David Ramadan

Never heard of the name until today, never seen anything until today, did a quick search, as you mentioned, there's nothing on social media. If a political, like myself, for the last 25 years never heard the name from Northern Virginia, I doubt that the 90 plus percent of attendees will be from NOVA at a convention, are going to even register that there is a candidate by that name.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, I mean, I know nothing about this woman. I didn't know that she was a previous candidate until you told me Michael. There's absolutely zero social media presence, which is incredibly rare for an elected official or, or aspiring elected official, rather. And so it strikes me that this person is simply just not a credible candidate.

Michael Pope

Okay, one last question. Before we wrap it up. We touched on this a little bit, but I want to make sure that I've get my arms around this to the extent that we can. The influence of ranked choice voting. And I think it's impossible to overstate how actually important and influential this is going to be, an untested. I mean, like, the the Republicans haven't done any sort of rank choice voting system like this. And so what do we make here of these, of the influence that ranked choice voting is going to have in this convention?

David Ramadan

Wildcard, you know, it's similar but a little different than simply having multiple ballots, because people are not going to stay there to have the multiple ballots. So it's going to give a better chance for the lower known names than they would normally have. However, it is a wildcard. In a primary, versus a convention, rank choice would have a higher effect then it's going to do here at this convention. Professor Saboteur tweeted about this a couple days ago and ensued the discussion on rank choice coming up in the Democratic primary, especially on the Gubernatorial level, whereby mathematically, you could have somebody who could only get 30%, 40% of the vote and end up with a nomination on the LG level. Somebody on the Democratic side, you could have somebody with less than 15% of the vote and end up as having the nomination because there is no rank choice. So I assume we're going to talk more about rank choice in Virginia politics. I assume this will be a discussion for legislators for years to come, especially after the experience on the Republican side this year, and it is something that we are seeing on a national level in different states, but it is a wild card and only time will tell, how's this gonna play out.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, and traditionally too, in a wide field, or more than two candidate field, you can, you know, when there's not one singularly super popular candidate, you can actually win a ranked choice ballot by pitching yourself as everybody's second choice. And that's actually how Abraham Lincoln won, when we had a bunch of very popular individual candidates within their cliques and within their specific niche, but none of them had the ability to garner a majority, right? And so you might see something very similar this year in May, where somebody perhaps like Glenn Davis could very easily push to be everybody's second choice on the ballot.

Michael Pope

It is really interesting that it sort of removes the possibility of the dark horse that no one has ever heard of emerging victorious, you know, the EW. Jackson being the best example of this, who just showed up at the convention and made a speech that people liked or or maybe they, you know, were just the last person standing after everybody else got knocked down. So like it really does sort of change the dynamics of who might emerge victorious. Whether or not Glenn Davis is going to be people's second choice, though, I'm not I mean, this is a group of people who don't want to go that I mean, it's, you know, it seems to me, it's a hard argument to make, that the Republican Party should be going to the middle, in terms of making that argument to Republican convention goers. But I don't know, I guess we're gonna have to see. David Ramadan, and I'm gonna put you on the spot here, right at the very end. Do you have any predictions in terms of who is victorious or maybe even who does well, and in terms of multiple candidates in this Lieutenant Governor convention?

David Ramadan

Tim Hugo, Tim Hugo remains, he has all the aspects needed to win this, to win this race. He has the organization, he has the money, he has experienced, he had the political team that's working, and he has the credentials, the conservative credentials, within within the party in the experience, to win it.

Michael Pope

How about number two?

David Ramadan

There, I really cannot pin a number two because of what we just discussed on having that wildcard in the way that they're going to run it.

Thomas Bowman

Well, you know, Michael, before we go, I want to give a quick shout out to the three new Patreon we've gotten since the last episode, Kaitlyn, Matthew, and Lee, thanks so much for supporting Transition Virginia. That's all for right now. Thank you for listening to Transition Virginia. I'm Thomas Bowman and my co host is Michael Pope. If you have comments or questions about what you just heard, or maybe you only want to tell us what you think about the show, write an email and send it to us at TransitionVApodcast@gmail.com so we can read it on the air. Subscribe to Transition Virginia anywhere pods are cast, follow the Transition Team on Twitter @TransitionVA and find us on the web at transitionvirginia.com. Don't forget to like and subscribe so you can enjoy our next episode of Transition Virginia.