IN THE NEWS:

1. Don't California My Virginia--that was the platform Republicans ran on last year, and now the governor is following through by ditching California emission standards, even though Democrats who control the General Assembly don't agree. Members of the General Assembly are also clashing with the governor about whether Virginia should be part of two multi-state groups, one to combat climate change and another to update voter information.

2. A text ding might be the sound of modern campaigning in Virginia. Campaigns for everything from Congress to your local City Council are increasingly embracing a new way to reach potential voters. But does this kind of campaigning get too personal?

3. Virginia's unemployment rate is 2.8 percent, and inflation is going down. But are ordinary people actually feeling these economic trends?

At the Watercooler:

• Jonathan Haidt's Anxious Generation and the effect of cell phones and technology on younger Americans

• Major news for friend of the show Sarah Taylor--congratulations on her new job at Capitol Square Strategies!

Episode Transcript

Michael Pope  

I'm Michael Pope.

Lauren Burke  

I'm Lauren Burke.

Michael Pope  

And this is Pod Virginia, a podcast coming to you live and in person from my favorite Taqueria Picoso on Beauregard Street in the West End of Alexandria. Lauren, it's great to see you live and in person. 

Lauren Burke  

Yeah, absolutely. It's lovely to do it live. And it's lovely to do it at this particular restaurant, which is fantastic.

Michael Pope  

So Lauren and I are here at Taqueria Picoso because there was a forum for the city council and Mayor candidates for Alexandria. What did you think of the forum and all the local politics in Alexandria?

Lauren Burke  

I thought it was fantastic. It was very well attended. I think that's because of the tacos and the candidates in the restaurant. But this location can't be beat; there's no doubt about it.

Michael Pope  

All right. Let's move on to our first story. Don't California by Virginia. That's the platform Republicans ran on last year. Now, the governor is following through by ditching California emission standards, even though Democrats who control the General Assembly don't agree. Former Republican Governor Jim Gilmore disagrees with those who say Youngkin is exceeding his authority.

Jim Gilmore  

The Attorney General gave a very reasoned opinion that made it clear that the governor had proper authority. So I think the question is not, is the governor overstepping his bounds as a matter of policy? The question is, is he following the law? And I think he is.

Lauren Burke  

When Tim Kaine was governor, he issued an executive order recognizing gay rights for state employees. Republican Attorney General Bob McDonnell responded by saying Kaine exceeded his authority. However, Chief of Staff Bill Leighty says the administration did not change course. 

Bill Leighty  

Absolutely not. We just continued enforcing it and basically dared someone to sue us over it, but they never did.

Michael Pope  

So, what does that say about the limits of executive authority in Virginia? 

Bill Leighty  

I think governors are constantly attesting their executive authority. Of course, the issue of just how much authority the governor has becomes much more relevant when there's a contentious relationship with the General Assembly, as is the case now.

Michael Pope  

Yeah, that's definitely the case now. Members of the General Assembly are also clashing with the governor about whether Virginia should be part of multi-state groups like the one to fight climate change and another to update voter information. So we're at this interesting turning point, Lauren, where the governor is doing things that seem like he's taking executive power to the next level. In my experience, we have not had a governor, at least in recent memory, who has been so forceful with his executive decisions.

Lauren Burke  

Well, we have had governors before who decided to ignore the law, particularly around anything involving civil rights and immigration. We certainly saw that where we were just going to ignore what the Supreme Court said.

Michael Pope  

Well, I would take issue with that. Because in the example you're talking about, which is massive resistance, the Bryd Machine governors had a willing General Assembly. It wasn't like the governor was doing something the General Assembly disagreed with. What we're seeing now is a little different. The governor wants to do something, and the General Assembly is saying no. And our governor says, Well, I'm going to do it anyway.

Lauren Burke  

Well, remember what Governor Youngkin said: he's getting out of the California compact with regard to admissions for cars. But he said he was going to follow the federal guidelines. So, I'm not sure that he totally skirted the law. 

Michael Pope  

Well, Democrats would disagree; they're already threatening a lawsuit. I think we can expect that to happen. The same thing happened with RGGI; the General Assembly and the governor at the time approved Virginia entering into RGGI, and now our governor is unilaterally deciding that he wants to leave RGGI. He has unilaterally decided he wants to ditch California emission standards. It seems like Governor Youngkin is taking his executive powers beyond what previous governors have taken. The only other recent example that we can think of governors exerting executive influence in a way that brought pushback was Governor Kaine saying that he wanted to extend rights to the LGBT community, who are state employees. So, compared to the California emission standards, there's an order of magnitude difference there. I think where our current governor is really using his executive authority in a very pronounced way that previous governors have not. 

Lauren Burke  

Well, let's be real: from the Democratic perspective, once a governor oversteps. And it's something Democrats agree with; obviously, you're not going to push back on that. Obviously, Democrats disagree with this because, of course, we do have a climate change issue. We're a week out from a tornado touching the ground in Maryland. Obviously, there are very serious climate change issues, such as carbon emissions. There's this beholden set we've had for years to Saudi Arabia when it comes to oil. So, I want to go over electric cars; obviously, electric cars are the future. Actually, Governor Youngkin said that they were the future. The question is how we get there. And when exactly do we get there? I do think when we talk about cars, cars are like religion. Cars are a big deal; they are such an ingrained part of our culture. So it isn't just any old issue when we talk about cars, you know, cars are very sensitive. And Youngkin didn't bring this up, but I thought to myself when I drive through the Isle of Wight into Suffolk, I see so many used cars by the side of the road that is like $2,000 - $3,000, and now we're getting into electric cars, that's obviously going to up in the used car market. I do think a lot of lawmakers who, quite frankly, are looking at this issue in the right way when we talk about climate change tend to be the types of people who can afford a $20,000 and $30,000 electric car; Governor Youngkin did bring up the increased expense of electric vehicles, which is about $10,000 on average. Obviously, they are the future; that's a fact he didn't try to skirt around that. But I do think people need to think in terms of the blue-collar grassroots Virginians out there who do want to buy the $2,000 gas vehicle that is going to be illegal in about what ten years. So cars are a special thing in our culture, and I think it's even more touchy on this particular subject.

Michael Pope  

That's a really good point; there's a lot of emotion wrapped up in the way people feel about their cars. Here at Taqueria Picoso, where you and I are currently located, we've just heard about the debate from the city council candidates and one candidate for mayor. Part of that discussion had to do with bus-only lanes in transit corridors. The pushback you hear is, look, I need my car; I can't run my life without a car. You hear this a lot from parents: I have to take my daughter to a dance rehearsal on this side of town, and then my son to the Boy Scouts on the other side of town. From their perspective, you can't do that on a bus. Or at least you can't do that the same way on a bus. People have this relationship with our cars, and that is very emotional. Almost in a way, that's not a policy issue; it's like, I have to live my life kind of thing.

Lauren Burke  

I drove my Chevy to the levy. The levy, which I mean, is cars in the culture; they're in songs. We're talking about cars all the time. That particular issue is special in a way. And it's an economic-related issue. Because after your house, your biggest expense is usually your car. As somebody who pays attention to finances a lot, I pay attention to the fact that the car is a depreciating asset. The minute that thing drives off, it depreciates, which is why I never in my life bought a new car. Now, with this new world that we live in, obviously, we do have to get away from being beholden to oil and all that. It's totally true. Of course, the environment is the number one reason for this. And it's a damn good reason, and I'm all for it. But from an economic standpoint, I'm thinking about the fact that the blue-collar person might not be able to afford the electric car.

Michael Pope  

Let's move on to our next story. Campaign buzz. Did you hear that? That's the sound of modern campaigning in Virginia. Campaigns from Congress to your local city council are increasingly embracing a new way to read each potential voter: the text message.

Mark Rozell  

I put stop orders on mine. That's about all I can say. 

Michael Pope  

That's Mark Rozell, Dean of the Schar School at George Mason University.

Mark Rozell  

I understand why campaigns are doing this, but they must be careful not to inundate people and cause a backlash from annoying people who don't want to be interrupted.

Lauren Burke  

Part of why the campaigns are moving away from robocalls and towards text messages is that they are so cheap. One cent per text message and three cents per message if you add a photo. Wes Bellamy at Virginia State University says campaigns collect information about voters on a series of lists.

Wes Bellamy  

Their information is available on these lists. Because people now sell those lists or more easily share them, the person with the actual issue or the potential candidate now has greater access to those lists, which allows them to have direct-to-consumer interaction. 

Michael Pope  

Do you know what else is worth considering in terms of these lists? They will tell the campaigns who have already voted and who hasn't. We're currently in the 45 days of early voting; lots of people have already voted, and the campaigns know who has already voted. So they're not going to bother those people, which also allows them to target people who have not yet voted. So we're still in the early days of campaigns figuring this out.

Lauren Burke  

Yeah, we're definitely in the early stages of all these text messages. But there's something innately personal about a text message that isn't the same as an email. Because, of course, we are now used to junk email. You're used to getting a bunch of emails that you didn't ask for. The text message, I know, for myself, I've gotten some very interesting campaign text messages from people; I have no idea why I'm getting them. Fani Willis comes to mind; she is the DEA in Fulton County, Georgia. I have no idea why I'm getting a text message from her, but I am getting it because I'm so on some list they've obviously gotten from a candidate in Virginia. But I agree with Mr. Rozell in terms of hitting the stop button even when it's a candidate that I really like because I just don't like that particular form of personal communication. It's really sort of made for personal communication. And this type of communication is, to me, inherently impersonal.

Michael Pope  

Well, you know, what's interesting is that we see a shift away from robocalls and toward text messages. For a very long period, robocalls played a very important, even outsized, role in politics because you could have the negative robocall or the attack robocall. We're not going to see those much anymore in the future. If we're seeing dark, shady attacks, it's going to be via text message.

Lauren Burke  

Absolutely. Also, we're seeing text messages that are polls. You're getting polls now in the text message. Actually, I don't blame these campaigns. Nobody's picking up their phone. I get that when you see a number on your phone that's not recognizable, you typically do not pick that up on your cell phone. So they've got to figure out something. But, eh, there's something. Maybe it's because it's new, but maybe I'll get used to it. I don't know.

Michael Pope  

All right, let's move on to our next story. Scorching economy, Virginia's unemployment rate is 2.8%.

John Provo  

Virginia really remains hot, hot, hot. 

Michael Pope  

That's John Provo at Virginia Tech, who says the last year has seen a significant spike.

John Provo  

We've got 76,000 more people working. Jobs are up in all sectors of the economy, including 5,000 More jobs in manufacturing and 8,000 more in professional services. That actually suggests that most parts of the state are participating in this continued hot labor market, and we're filling the jobs.

Lauren Burke  

Leslie Stratton

 at Virginia Commonwealth University says the unemployment rate in the United States is now lower than it's been in decades.

Leslie Stratton  

There is inflation, but in a number of months, the weekly wages have risen faster than the inflation rate. That doesn't mean that people aren't still upset about prices being higher. People should realize that prices are not going to actually fall back to where they were before.

Michael Pope  

Yeah, prices are not going to fall back to where they were before. But here's the good news. They're not rising as rapidly as they used to. Leslie Stratton says the Federal Reserve is doing everything it can to slow down that increase even more. So, Lauren, this is an economic issue. It's also a political issue, right? We are in an election year, and the economy really couldn't possibly be better. Now, in the political scene, when you hear people talk about this, you often hear people say, well, the vibes. 

Lauren Burke  

Yeah.

Michael Pope  

People don't get it. We've got this hot economy, but people don't know that's happening, or they're not feeling it. 

Lauren Burke  

Yeah, well, they're not feeling it because usually it's translated into gasoline and grocery prices, which have been high. It may even translate into things like fast food prices. You're now finding out there was some gouging going on. There are some adjustments, but they are a little lower on that. But if people don't feel it in their personal lives or don't have a sense of confidence about the economy, that translates into polling data that the economy isn't doing well. A lot of that's coming to for mis-info and disinfo, which has been a consistent problem that nobody is fixing. So that's huge as well.

Michael Pope  

Well, the economy is doing great here at Taqueria Picoso because they've got a full house and are making a lot of money. I will have to say I had a Chorizo taco earlier. What did you have? You had something that looked great. Was it huevos rancheros? 

Lauren Burke  

Yes, it was huevos rancheros, and this place is a goldmine—it's great. After we're done with this, I'm going to order more food to take out.

Michael Pope  

Absolutely. Alright, let's take a break. When we come back, we will play around with trivia and head over to the water cooler. All right, let's play a round of trivia. Last week, we asked you who the New Deal Democrat was who beat the Bryd machine loyalists Colgate Darden in the Democratic primary for the second congressional district in 1936. 

Lauren Burke  

The answer is Norman Hamilton, who served one term in Congress before Colgate Darden made a comeback and sent the New Deal Democrat back to Portsmouth.

Michael Pope  

And we have some winners: Andrew Owen, Joe Crook, Lauren Kaiser, and Zach Lincoln.

Lauren Burke  

The second congressional district has quite a storied history.

Michael Pope  

Yeah, it's currently one of only 18 districts across the country that voted for Biden, and yet they're represented by Republicans. The Democrats are really going to be focusing all their attention on those Biden district Republicans. Hopefully, from their perspective, they will try to unseat people like Jen Kiggan this fall. Republicans will be defending their Republican incumbents in Biden districts.

Lauren Burke  

Yeah, and it's going to be competitive. Okay. So, what's our trivia question for next week?

Michael Pope  

Alright, because we're in the midst of congressional primary season, let's ask another question about the Virginia delegation. So, let's turn our attention to the hottest Democratic primary in Virginia, the 10th congressional district in Loudoun. This is a congressional district that was created after the 1950 census, when Northern Virginia was rapidly growing, so much that Virginia got a brand new congressional district. 1952 was the first election in which voters got a chance to choose a new member of Congress, and they elected a Republican. So here's our trivia question for this week: who was that first member of Congress to represent the 10th congressional district?

Lauren Burke  

If you think you know the answer, reach out to us on social media. You might even win a prize.

Michael Pope  

Alright, let's head over to the water cooler. Lauren, what's the latest you've heard around there?

Lauren Burke  

I'm going to bring up a book by Jonathan Haidt that I'm listening to right now. I've typically listened to books and don't actually read them. If it weren't for audiobooks, I'd never have taken any of these books in. The book is called The Anxious Generation. That book is about the impact of social media on kids and children, as well as the impact of technology on phones and the rewiring, as Jonathan Haidt puts it, the rewiring of childhood experiences. This means that because of cell phones, kids do not have human interaction as much because they're effectively living their lives or growing up through cell phones. And that is really. The book is really concentrating on Generation Z, for the most part, which is kids born after 1995. However, he does not keep that strict definition in the book. He's doing younger millennials as well in that group. It's not just everybody born after 1995. However, he is particularly focused on that group in the book. So I'm sitting there listening, typically listening when I'm driving. I drive a lot, and I'm going to pull the car on the side of the road because some of the things that he's referencing have come up in my life dealing with folks in politics, who are either just situations where it was really hard to get people to meet in person about things that were a little bit contentious. 

Michael Pope  

Yeah, younger people are not as interested in talking on the phone. They want to communicate via text, message, and email. 

Lauren Burke  

Yeah, you can't, of course, talk about everybody. I certainly have not had this experience 100% of the time by any means; in fact, I love our Gen Zers a lot because they're the people who are our listeners. Those are our listeners. Also, they're the people who put energy into politics and energy into society quite often. However, one thing I have noticed is a reluctance to have any sort of conversation, which may be a disagreement or a feeling of tension. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's the folks I'm dealing with. This is obviously not scientific; my life is not big enough for it to be scientific. However, in the book, Jonathan Haidt references a lot of studies. He references things that show that there's overprotection in the real world for that generation. That over-protection is problematic when you are in a world of technology that has no protection. He says there's under protection in the virtual world. Because you're seeing all these things as a child and really not necessarily know how to process them. He's saying that this generation is the first one to deal with this technology in a way that has never happened before in history. And it needs to be dealt with. It's a very interesting book. 

Michael Pope  

I think we saw some flavors of that when we had Jeff Ryer on the podcast. When you and he did the podcast, we got it, and I'm sure you saw all the feedback. We talked about it on the podcast, where a lot of our listeners don't want a lot of conflict.

Lauren Burke  

Um, I don't know whether it's just not conflict. You always have to factor in the age at which we live. The age we live in now is one where we have a guy running for president who is a fascist lunatic and a liar. And tried to overturn the government on the day of the certification. That's not a normal thing to be dealing with. Also, that generation had to deal with COVID-19, which was unprecedented. So, there are things that you have to factor into these arguments. As I'm listening to the book, I always have to be mindful of that; you can't just say, Well, COVID was no big deal. COVID was a huge deal. That was a huge deal for that generation to deal with. I do want to be considerate about that. But at the same time, and I encourage everybody to read or listen to the book when he starts citing the studies and the data with regard to mental illness and depression, it gets really scary. That's when I have to stop the car and listen in the parking lot for a second. Because the data on depression is off the chain, particularly for young girls. In fact, there was a former employee of Facebook who showed up as a whistleblower on Capitol Hill and referenced the same things, specifically in regard to Instagram. So there's that. Michael, what's the latest you're hearing around the watercooler?

Michael Pope  

Major news about a big friend of the podcast. One of our long-term friends on the podcast, Sarah Taylor, we have big news on Sarah Taylor. She is no longer with the city government in Alexandria. As long as we've had this podcast, she has been a lobbyist for the city of Alexandria. In recent years, she's actually been the assistant city manager and lobbyist for the city of Alexandria. She has now moved over to Capitol Square Strategies, where she is working with Jeff Palmer, who used to be with Reed Smith. About three years ago, he ventured out to start his firm, Capitol Square Strategies. So Palmer worked in the McDonnell administration, and he has ties to Republican politics. Now Sarah Ta, Taylor is a counterbalance to that for ol Square Strategies. So congratulations to a friend of the show, Sarah Taylor, who has made the leap from municipal government to Capitol Square Strategies, where I'm sure she will be very successful. Lauren, I know our listeners will want to know if we will continue to see Sarah Taylor as an all-star participant in our game show, buy, sell, or hold. And the answer is yes. Sarah Taylor will continue to be an integral part of the show. We appreciate her sense of humor and her sense of style. We are looking forward to having her on the next time that we do a game show. Which I guess is going to be later this week. Are we headed for a special session? I think they actually haven't formally announced it yet. But the Speaker is on the record saying that he wants to call members of the House to Richmond to vote on a budget issue. I think the Senate is a little squishy on their dates. So I don't know what is the latest on that.

Lauren Burke  

I think it's going to be June 27, according to everybody, but,

Michael Pope  

But is the House and the Senate on the same day?

Lauren Burke  

I don't know. We'll have to wait for leader Surovell to inform us exactly when the Senate is coming in.

Michael Pope  

Okay, well, I know leader Surovell listens to this podcast, so maybe he can come to Taqueria Picoso and let us know what the plans are. Alright, let's head over to that Pod Virginia mailbag. Lauren, what are our listeners talking about?

Lauren Burke  

We got some feedback from one of the candidates for Alexandria city council, Jonathan Husky.

Michael Pope  

This is a candidate who opposes dedicated lanes for transit corridors. He opposes the effort to ditch Jim Crow zoning, and he says the pace of development in the city is happening too fast.

Lauren Burke  

Wow. He heard your discussion with Teo Armos and posted this: " Thanks for the show. Hot take: my record is the most progressive in the bunch. And there's nothing progressive about how this council has acted in this past year."

Michael Pope  

I'm not sure I would agree with that assessment. So, let's start with dedicated bus lanes. This is a major initiative by progressives in Alexandria, who want to make sure people have options other than cars; the issue is that single-occupancy vehicles should not be blocking the way for buses. So, I'm struggling with the idea that opposing dedicated bus lanes is a progressive position. Then there's ditching Jim Crow zoning. Obviously, there's lots of opposition to zoning-for-housing and the missing middle. But I would not necessarily call that opposition progressive. Then, finally, the pace of development, I'm struggling to figure out how saying no to bringing more people to the city of Alexandria is a progressive position. The use of that kind of language is so closely tied with national politics that maybe those words don't quite mean as much in a local context. I'm not really sure. But what do you think about progressive in terms of local politics?

Lauren Burke  

Well, in the shorthand communications political world that we live in, progressive usually means inclusive, equity, and fighting for the middle class. Conservative typically means fighting for businesses and moneyed interests. And I'm doing a very shorthand, stereotypical version of what those things mean. 

Michael Pope  

If Jonathan Husky were here right now, he would latch on to the last thing you just said, which is that moneyed interest equals developers. From his perspective, the pace of development in Alexandria is going too fast. It's progressives who push back against big-money developers.

Lauren Burke  

I think most people would say, typically, when you come to one of these neighborhoods in Arlington and Alexandria of old, where people lived in a single-family house. Which, of course, they more easily could afford decades ago. That's the vision everybody has in their head of the neighborhood: not that big high rise, not the duplex housing that everyone's proposing in terms of the missing middle policy. That change is showing up big time in our politics. Same thing with the bus lane issue and the bike lane issue. So, the bike lane issue, to me, is a generational thing. Younger people, of course, want to ride bikes and get away from cars. They are thinking more about climate change and the environment. Bus lanes, and I've said before, my mother's side of the family is from Virginia, and my father's side is from New York. As a New Yorker, it depends on what types of roads we're talking about. Now, New York has wide avenues; you can fit a lot of stuff. Here in Virginia, it's a little tougher to fit a dedicated bus lane. Of course, they're doing it in Washington, DC, and it's a struggle. Actually, they're doing a dedicated bike lane that has bike lanes in DC. That, of course, is taking a lot of parking spaces away, and that's hard on business. It's hard on Uber, Uber Eats, and all of that. So, for Virginia, it really depends specifically on where we're talking about for these dedicated lanes. 

Michael Pope  

Let me give you an example. The street that we're on right now, Beauregard Street, where Taqueria Picoso is located, is named after a Confederate General; we'll overlook that for the moment. Beauregard Street is one of the three identified transit corridors here in Alexandria. The city government's long-term plan is to put bus-only lanes on this street. Now that you've driven h.y. What do you think about this street? 

Lauren Burke  

Well, it's a pretty wide street. Once again, I want to get back to the electric car thing for just one second. This is why I think messing around people's cars has got to be a concern. The car represents accessibility and freedom and the ability to get from point A to point B. Most people in Virginia are in rural areas, and most of Virginia is rural, and most people there have cars. The affordability and accessibility of cars are really important. We talked about the electric car thing, and we know electric cars are more expensive. So I get that buses obviously make it easier. We have the Dash bus line, which I think is free. So that's a great operator, the free Dash.

Michael Pope  

Yeah, here in Alexandria, you can take the Dash bus for free. One thing I thought was interesting; one thing I noticed during the campaign was when I went to several of these forums where you had all the candidates; one of the forums was the Tenants and Workers Forum, which was in the Arlandria area. Half of the audience were Spanish speakers, and they had earphones so they could get the live translation during the event. However, one of the candidates spoke Spanish fluently and actually answered all the questions in Spanish first, then translated them into English. The reason I bring up that experience is because I can pick up a couple of words in Spanish. So, I was trying to listen to what he was saying. And one expression that he had that he did not translate into Spanish was fare-free Dash. I thought this made an impact on me. Fare-free Dash is an expression that is so globally accepted that you don't translate it.

Lauren Burke  

Amazing. Yeah, exactly. What you're really talking about is the fact that people who are blue-collar workers are struggling to live in the place where they work. We're not just finding that with, with blue-collar workers on the lower end of the chain, we're finding how IT folks, who are making, in some cases, close to six figures, that can't live in, say, Washington, DC, or Arlington, or Fairfax. These are really expensive communities because the average home price in Arlington is $850,000. We talked about transportation and getting those workers into the city to do the work and run all of these businesses. It's a very complex question because, of course, the way capitalism works is that these developers want to build up as much as possible to make as much money as possible. Whether it's from the housing or condo, whatever we're talking about. Nobody's ever really thinking about low-income housing or transportation when we talk about these issues. It's interesting to watch because most of our politicians do want to be accountable to the local Chambers of Commerce. That typically means that you're not considering what that average worker laborer has to go through to get to work.

Michael Pope  

All right, let's celebrate some birthdays this week. 

Lauren Burke  

Tuesday, June 18, is the birthday of Senator Mark Obenshain of Rockingham. Saturday, June 15, is the birthday of Delegate Scott Wyatt of Hanover.

Michael Pope  

Friday is Flag Day. So unless you're on the Supreme Court, then it's upside-down Flag Day or appeal-to-heaven Day or whatever you want to blame on your spouse.

Lauren Burke  

Nice. Sunday is Father's Day. Did you know that Chesterfield County is the birthplace of Father's Day?

Michael Pope  

I did know that because we had that trivia question a couple of weeks ago. It was submitted by one of our loyal listeners, Cameron Thompson of CBS Six in Richmond, which you could call the father of Father's Day trivia.

Lauren Burke  

Nice. That is it for this episode of Pod Virginia. Transcripts are on the website, and you can follow us on social media for more chatter on Virginia politics.