Bold Dominion: Wait Wait…Don’t Tell Me What Happened at Session
Test your knowledge about Virginia politics with a crossover episode from Pod Virginia and Bold Dominion, styled as a game show about what happened in the 2022 legislative session.
Subscribe to the Bold Dominion podcast for more news and analysis on Virginia politics https://bolddominion.org/
Learn more at https://linktr.ee/JacklegMedia
Michael Pope
I'm Michael Pope.
Thomas Bowman
I'm Tom Bowman.
Michael Pope
And this is Pod Virginia.
Thomas Bowman
We've got something special for you this week. A treat to celebrate the end of the General Assembly Session, Sine Die, crossover episode with our friends at Bold Dominion.
Michael Pope
Thomas you just pronounced Sine Die the way the Senate pronounces it, not the way the House pronounces it.
Thomas Bowman
Or the way the Romans would have pronounce it, Sine Die?
Michael Pope
Yeah, well, this crossover episode that you're about to hear, it's not just any crossover episode, it's actually a game show.
Thomas Bowman
A game show, huh?
Michael Pope
Yeah, we thought it would be a fun way to use sound clips as a springboard to talk about what happened or what didn't happen in the General Assembly Session.
Thomas Bowman
Right. So don't blame me, this was Michael's idea.
Michael Pope
Yes, it was my idea. And listen, we had a great time with our friends from Bold Dominion. So, let's get to it. Well, the General Assembly Session is over and all we have left is the memories, and of course, some audio. So we're going to dig into that audio now and hold a friendly competition between Bold Dominion and Pod Virginia. The rules are pretty simple. Each answer will get you one point, or maybe no points, or doesn't really matter, because this is actually just a fun game to talk about the General Assembly Session. Is all that clear enough?
Nathan Moore
It's as clear as my coffee.
Michael Pope
Okay, let's meet the contestants. First up, we've got the host of Bold Dominion, Nathan Moore. Thanks for joining us.
Nathan Moore
Thank you, Michael.
Michael Pope
We are also joined by the producer of Bold Dominion, Katherine Hansen. Thanks for joining us.
Katherine Hansen
Thanks for having me.
Michael Pope
Plus, we're joined by the co host of Pod Virginia, Thomas Bowman. Thanks for joining us.
Thomas Bowman
Great to be back. This is such a surprise.
Michael Pope
Okay, let's get right into this and play the game. Our first bit of audio is from the Speaker of the House of Delegates, Todd Gilbert.
Todd Gilbert
He is cheered by those who called for his resignation, repeatedly cheered, by those who called for his resignation. So I've grown weary of being lectured by matters of race by by Ralph Northam.
Michael Pope
That's Speaker Gilbert trashing Governor Ralph Northam after his final State of the Commonwealth Address. Now, Speaker Gilbert caused a firestorm by tweeting during the speech, describing Governor Northam as, "condescendingly lecturing lawmakers," because he read what book? Nathan, I'm going to start with you.
Nathan Moore
My guess is it's, "Beloved," by Toni Morrison since that was what Republicans were all running against as their opponent last fall.
Michael Pope
It is interesting how, "Beloved," that Toni Morrison book, actually featured so prominently in the campaign last year, and in the Session this year, and the, "Beloved," bill actually got through the Democratically controlled Senate, and is now on the Governor's desk so...so yeah, that's a that's a pretty good guess.
Nathan Moore
And just to explain it there, that that bill then would basically let parents opt their kids out of learning certain subjects, right, or reading certain books that are part of a curriculum, otherwise?
Michael Pope
It would require the school division to notify parents when they were going to teach anything with sexually explicit materials. So, "Beloved," would qualify. If you talk to teachers, though, they will say, anytime you have to notify parents, that's kind of a non starter. So school systems will avoid teaching, "Beloved," in favor of teaching something that does not require notification, right? So it's like a, it's like a, a way to ban a book, without directly banning. It's like an indirect ban.
Nathan Moore
Like a chilling effect. Yeah, right.
Michael Pope
So Katherine Hansen, I'm gonna go to you next. What do you think...what kind of book do you think Speaker Gilbert might have been talking about there, in terms of what Governor Northam was reading?
Katherine Hansen
First thing that comes to mind is, "White Fragility. Why It's So Hard For White People to Talk About Racism?"
Michael Pope
Do you think that that Northam either read that book or should have read that book?
Katherine Hansen
I'm kind of thinking he may have read it. From my understanding, I have not read the book, but it's kind of caused a bit of a stir. I don't think that it got across the message that it wanted to. I think it's something that Governor Ralph Northam probably read, and maybe that's why it's being criticized?
Michael Pope
Well, you know, actually, if you think about the Blackface scandal as being a fulcrum, that sort of changed the direction of the Northam administration, I would say the sort of post Blackface era was, sort of, organized around that kind of thinking, right? And he tried to make this his legacy, fighting against systemic racism. In fact, it was that part of the speech that the Speaker was, specifically, commenting about. So that's that's probably a pretty good guess.
Nathan Moore
I think that, "White Fragility," was another one, I thought of. Maybe that's the one that that Gilbert's referencing? I don't know if- I also thought maybe it would be, "How to be Antiracist," by Ibram Kendi. Somehow, I don't think Todd Gilbert knows a lick about either of those books. In his one tweet, you know, he managed to, not just basically tell Ralph Northam to not let the screen door his ass on the way out, he also managed to show off in one sentence, how he really doesn't give a crap about about dealing with racism, and thinks that the needs of Black Virginians should be trivialized. So, you know, I don't think Gilbert has read Ibram Kendi or, or, "White Fragility," or any of the other books. But you're right on that on that pivot point with the Northam administration. He kind of started his term as a sort of like, "aw shucks," you know, Virginia politician. And then when that came out, he really did some work, you know, and really tried to grow as a person. I really applaud him for that.
Michael Pope
Thomas Bowman, what book do you think the Speaker might have been talking about there?
Thomas Bowman
Well, all my time monitoring Twitter has finally paid off, Michael. Because the answer is, "Roots," a much more dated reference, which makes more sense for- coming from Speaker Todd Gilbert, than any of the wonderful guesses, although, "Beloved," was the right era...Any of the wonderful guesses that all the other contestants had.
Michael Pope
Yeah, actually, the the the guesses that we just talked about were, for the most part, much more modern. "Roots," is a sort of 1970s era book. But it, obviously, made an impression. "Roots," also had, of course, a television series associated with it. So it was not just the book, but also kind of a media environment of its own. Okay, all right. So this session saw a lot of changes, in terms of COVID protocol. Here's Senator Siobhan Dunnavant talking about the Plexiglass barriers installed around the Senate desks.
Siobhan Dunnavant
I would like this box removed from my desk by Monday. I can remove it myself, and I will do that if there's not the manpower to do that. But I think that that is the right thing to do. And I would like to proceed without this box around my desk for the last two weeks of Session.
Michael Pope
I probably wasn't the only person that was hoping that I could watch Senator Dunnavant rip down that box with her bare hands, although that didn't happen. Instead, the Clerk's Office removed all those Plexiglass barriers, and the Senate started looking like it did in the old days. Now, question about those plexiglass boxes, many senators decorated their plastic shields with decals of a specific animal. What was the animal and what is its significance? Katherine Hansen, I'm going to start with you. What animal do you think the senators might have put on their plexiglass shields as kind of a metaphor for this General Assembly session?
Katherine Hansen
You know, I don't know if this is the right answer, but I've seen some pictures on Twitter of decals of butterflies on plexiglass shields?
Michael Pope
Ding, ding, ding, ding! Butterflies, actually, is the correct answer.
Katherine Hansen
First thing that comes to mind is, "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee," but maybe they're looking about going through some sort of metamorphosis in Virginia politics right now?
Michael Pope
Pretty deep, or they might have just had decals or butterflies lying around?
Nathan Moore
I'll tell you, my guess, actually, was going to be a kangaroo, because it has a really big pouch. You know, kangaroos have this pouch where they can carry around all kinds of things, their babies. And I figured that would be a good mascot for lawmakers so that they can continue to hold all the unregulated campaign donations that they receive. There was a bill early this year, we covered it on Bold Dominion, to regulate dominion, to to prohibit utilities from donating to campaigns in a big way during about things that they would be impacted by directly. Of course, that failed. There was even a bill that was really basic campaign finance reform, that would have prohibited lawmakers from using campaign donations for personal expenses. So you get a bunch of campaign money, you use it to pay your phone bill, or send your kid to college or whatever. That failed. So it's like, I mean, Virginia is just like, completely, the lawmakers just love going to that trough and just feeding and feeding and feeding.
Michael Pope
Alright, well, moving over to the pandemic, we may be over COVID protocol, but COVID-19 is not done with us yet. As a result, lawmakers heard a number of bills responding to the pandemic, everything from restricting the emergency powers of the Governor, to allowing local governments to meet virtually. This was discussed in the Senate Health Committee, and Chairwoman Louise Lucas had a hard time handling the situation in the room. Here's part of that audio.
Louise Lucas
I would ask that you will very politely leave the room so that others might come in to so that their bill can be heard. Thank you very much...My husband is in the hospital right now...I'm sorry, ma'am. This bill is passed by indefinitely for those of you who are here on that bill, please leave the room...This is too important of a topic...
Michael Pope
So as you could hear there in the audio, people in that room had somehow come to believe that Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine were some kind of miracle cure. And so that was the conflict you were hearing there in the room, is that the senators had killed the bill, allowing doctors to prescribe Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine. And the people in the room were very unhappy about it. So let's talk about junk science. If you were going to prescribe a miracle cure for a condition, what would you prescribe? And what would the medication accomplish? Katherine Hansen, I'm gonna start with you.
Katherine Hansen
I immediately think of like women's reproductive issues, like endometriosis, or PCOS right now. Like...maybe some sort of pill you can take, that would come up with a cure immediately. I feel like those are two examples of like reproductive health issues that often go unnoticed, like, especially in Black women, and women of color, who are just assumed to have a higher pain tolerance. So I think if we could just have a one and done cure for those women, that would that would be ideal.
Michael Pope
That's a pretty good answer. Thomas Bowman, I'm gonna go to you on miracle cures.
Thomas Bowman
All right, I would have a miracle cure for generational lead poisoning. So a report just came out in March saying that for all Americans, 54% of the Americans alive in 2015, had been exposed to dangerous levels of lead as children. That's over 170 million adults now at risk of neurodegenerative diseases like mental illness, and lower IQ points, and it impedes brain development, and permanent learning difficulties, and, most importantly, behavioral issues. So tell me, does that not explain politics? If 54% of Americans have this incredibly toxic, uncurable lead poisoning?
Michael Pope
Nathan Moore, what's your answer on a miracle cure for the General Assembly?
Nathan Moore
Legal weed. No, no, no, for all sorts of ailments. And I'm not actually just talking about the actual health uses of cannabis. Although there's a lot of research about that. No, there's- earlier in the Session, I talked with the Marijuana Justice Executive Director Chelsey Higgs Wise, and she talked about a few things that really do need to happen as the state legalizes cannabis to do it in a way that promotes the Commonwealth, like the people the Commonwealth, and not just the big money players. The first one is happening, it's Stop the Harm, you know, stop arresting people for simple possession. And so that that happened, and that's happening. But then she also very much talks about the need to continue building this Cannabis Control Authority and Cannabis Equity Reinvestment Fund. Don't just start selling cannabis at ABC stores, but actually have- go into this with our eyes open about how we can redirect the cannabis revenue that the state collects, and reinvest that in the people that were directly impacted by the Drug War. And so that that- those are bills that passed when the Democrats held the Assembly. And actually, I want to ask you, Michael and Thomas, because you know more about exactly what passed this Session, what what happened with this? Is this still how it's going? Or is that all repealed now? It's just...what's going on?
Michael Pope
So it's interesting, you brought up that idea of using the creation of a new cannabis industry to address the harms created by the War on Drugs, because that was actually something the Democrats were really interested in when they were in power, creating social equity licenses. So there's a lot of money that will, that somebody is going to make, when marijuana is finally legalized. So the idea behind the social equity licenses is that you get priority licenses, so early licenses, to people who have been arrested on marijuana misdemeanor charges, or even relatives of people who have been arrested. And, you know, served time in jail under marijuana misdemeanor charges. The Republicans hated that idea. They really did. And they sort of clashed over this. And I actually kind of thought I saw a compromise emerge, where they got rid of all the social equity licenses, in favor of doing licenses for areas that had been economically disadvantaged, which of course, there's crossover there. I mean, like the there's lots of areas that are economically disadvantaged, where police also disproportionately arrested people for marijuana charges. So that was a compromise that, kind of, was emerging, but at the end of the day, the Republican Caucus just could not see themselves creating an industry for marijuana, so the whole thing went up in smoke. Alright, now moving on to the environment. Governor Glenn Youngkin wanted to appoint the Trump EPA Chief to run Virginia's environmental programs, appearing before a hostile crowd of Senate Democrats on the Environmental Committee, Andrew Wheeler said people just didn't understand what he was up to with EPA, because the media is so awful.
Andrew Wheeler
They don't report that my number one project for that company was advocating for the Miners Protection Act to shore up the retirement and healthcare benefits of the United Mine Workers.
Michael Pope
Okay, so let's bash the media. What's the most dangerous media information out there right now? How's the media getting it wrong? Or maybe how are some in the media getting it wrong? Thomas Bowman, I'm gonna start with you.
Thomas Bowman
Sure. Well, immediately offhand, I think Fox News and right wing media generally, especially the most dangerous misinformation being on COVID, shortly followed thereafter, by various right wing conspiracies being inflamed by the Kremlin. You know, January 6, was pretty much a disaster. But on COVID, the pandemic is not over until the World Health Organization says, officially, that it is over, and until then, a pandemic means that the virus, or the disease, evolves in unpredictable ways, and can come and go. So, it should be very simple. If pandemic, then wear your mask. If no pandemic, then refer to local authorities.
Michael Pope
Nathan Moore, what is the most dangerous media misinformation out there right now?
Nathan Moore
Well, Thomas pointed out Fox News, which is certainly the 500 pound gorilla of sort of right wing misinformation at the national level. You know, the thing is, that it wouldn't be so amplified without social media as well, and all the shares that that people do in the unchecked way that that non-facts and, frankly, dangerous misinformation does get shared around and amplified and people start thinking it's real. And I just want to point out too, you know, this is the way authoritarian regimes thrive is, or authoritarian movements, is, you know, they start pointing out like, "Oh, that's not real." They start pushing forward different versions of a big lie. And and it's not so much that people believe the Big Lie, but they start to- enough people start to think, "Well, we can't trust any of it. It's all it's all not true." And when that happens, and the authoritarians just use raw power, and doesn't matter what the facts are, and that's exactly what we saw during the Trump regime. It's not that people all believe Trump, although far too many did, it's that they just put forward this Big Lie so much, that that, you know, before long, you know, an average, sort of not politico follower, you know, who knows what's real? I'm just gonna check out of the whole thing, and that's fertile ground for for actual authoritarians to take over. It's made possible by social media and very, very well heeled national outlets like Fox News and others. Now that said, I think I don't know that I would call them the most dangerous misinformation right now. But I am, though, I've been in Virginia long enough to have have become very disappointed in where one state outlet has gone and it's Bacon's Rebellion. You know it used to be nuanced conversation across the political spectrum. I mean, it leaned right of center, but it was thoughtful, you know. And actually went there for other perspectives than my own. I thought it was good. Now in the last couple of years, you know, it's really just now the dominion of white Boomer men with grievances against wokeness. And and I'm really saddened by by where they've gone.
Michael Pope
Katherine Hansen, what's the most dangerous form of media misinformation out there, from your perspective?
Katherine Hansen
I think to look at a state level, Critical Race Theory, and the state of education policy in Virginia. We recently did an episode on this, two weeks ago, and both of our guests let us know that parents have already had avenues to go into schools and discuss what their children are learning. I mean, lesson plans are posted online. So this idea that you know, parents have no say in what their children are learning, and that, you know, that even that they're learning Critical Race Theory when they're not, it's a law school concept. So I guess the idea that you know, you have to vote on these really heavy issues and parents have already had the avenues to do this, and really aren't taking advantage of them. I think it's causing a lot of anger, and a lot of stir up from parents over an issue that really they weren't they've already haven't they already had an avenue to sort of resolved if they had a problem with it.
Michael Pope
All right, this game is not over yet. Pod Virginia is clearly in the lead, but our friends from Bold Dominion may be catching up on us.
Thomas Bowman
Let's take a quick break so we can pay our bills. We'll be right back.
Michael Pope
Alright, so let's move on to our final question. Let's talk about words. How we talk about things influences how we think about them. So social equity license might be a hard sell because the word, "equity," has kind of fallen out of favor with Republicans. Another good example is the Department of Corrections. They say they don't put prisoners in isolated confinement, because they don't call it, "isolated confinement." They call it restrictive housing. And then last summer, they stopped calling it, “restrictive housing," in favor of calling it, "restorative housing." Kim Bobo at the Virginia Poverty Law Center said this is a debate about language.
Kim Bobo
I think they're playing games with words. They do use, "restrictive housing," they use, "restorative housing," they have all these fancy names, but essentially, it is still solitary confinement. People are being isolated for long periods of time.
Michael Pope
The lawmakers, some lawmakers, were trying to ban Virginia prisons from having isolated confinement, that issue failed in favor of having a study, they're gonna study it and maybe next year, they'll do something, maybe next year they won't. So the concept, "isolated confinement," the words, "isolated confinement," but that really needs a makeover, but it's not alone. What phrase or name is misleading, things like Right to Work? What phrase or words need and a makeover? Nathan Moore, I'm going to start with you.
Nathan Moore
So there's two that I want to use as a springboard to talk about something else. Right to Work is one, it's really the right to work for less. Because what that means, when you say, "Right to Work," is that it basically makes union representation very difficult. Historically, and in the present day, unions are pretty much the only thing that workers have to keep from being exploited by their bosses, to keep from working in unsafe conditions, to keep from, you know, having to have their entire days and nights turned over to their to their employee, to their employer, just to be just a machine that works. And that's all. And I will say this all the time, like not saying unions always make good decisions, they are human institutions and they make mistakes, but unions is a concept. Unions is a thing that we need in Virginia, I am 100% there. So Right to Work is definitely one that needs a makeover. Another one is is Critical Race Theory or quote, "divisive concepts." That was a funny one, this Session, almost like so broad as to be meaningless, whereas Critical Race Theory is so narrow as to be misleading. Both of those point to, really, education policy right now, Virginia education policy does need to really come around and recognize and remember that public education in this state is really the foundation and cornerstone of having a Democratic society here. I mean, going back to just after the Civil War, it was required by the federal government, in Reconstruction, for Southern states to set up good public education systems, because they knew that would actually make Democracy possible. And I think we lose sight of that sometimes. And we've got teachers now, here throughout the state, who are trying to do good work, a lot of them are leaving the field because there is so much ridiculousness, and the pay is so meager for all the the difficulties they have to put up with from all sides. And Katherine mentioned earlier the episode we did on this at Bold Dominion. But, you know, there is a crisis in teaching right now, where we've got a teacher shortages in a lot of regions, definitely substitute teacher shortages, even here in Charlottesville, which is a relatively attractive place to be a teacher, compared to some places. You know, the the bus driver shortage is making it so that kids go to the bus stop, and maybe they just don't get picked up sometimes, you know? I mean, we've got some real systemic problems here. The the fabric that holds together a core institution of our democracy is really fraying. And we got to we got to recognize teacher unions, and we got to, you know, respect the field, respect the profession, and let teachers do their damn jobs and do it well, because they're gonna. We train them well, and we let them do their thing as professionals.
Michael Pope
Alright, so the Virginia Department of Corrections clearly believes that, "isolated confinement," as a phrase, needs a makeover. Katherine Hansen, what's your thought on a phrase or a word that clearly needs a makeover?
Katherine Hansen
I guess maybe this isn't a super recent or relevant one. And I don't, necessarily, think it needs a makeover, so much as to be abolished, but, "Pull yourself up by the bootstraps," is not only physically impossible, but sort of places the onus on the individual's to pick themselves up, instead of being able to have a government that supports them. So that's that's one that I have a certain issue with.
Michael Pope
Thomas Bowman, what's your thought on a word or phrase that needs a makeover?
Thomas Bowman
Alright, the phrase that most needs to die in Virginia politics, is, "Peace in the valley," and I have a good reason for that.
Nathan Moore
Who uses that a lot? Tell me more.
Thomas Bowman
A lot of Virginia legislators, on both sides, use that a lot. It's a pretty common phrase you'll hear during legislative session to describe when when there's no more objections to a particular bill. Here's why it needs to go away. Because there's there's a famous Prussian military general called Carl Von Clausewitz, he said in his treatise on war, "War is politics by other means." So there can be no peace, when politics is war by other means. And if one thing in the, at least since 2016, has been made painfully clear to me, is that the Civil War in America, never ended, the Confederates changed their tactics. And so this is a multi generational story and conflict. And we cannot let our guard down, we cannot assume that we..."Can't we all just get along?" That is not how this works. You fight when neither side can gain sufficient political advantage.
Katherine Hansen
One thing that we've heard a lot recently, especially during the General Assembly session, is, "the Virginia way," this like archaic principle that's hindering a lot of progress, especially in the way of like campaign finance reform. So I think if there's anything that needs to make over it's, you know, 200 years of holding on to the same principle that really doesn't apply now, and is hindering a lot of the work that we could be doing.
Michael Pope
Yeah, also really vague too, because the Virginia way means different things to different people. I mean, almost, literally, every time I hear that phrase, it's it's used to describe something different than the previous time I heard it. So yeah, I mean, actually, it's it's almost like Critical Race Theory in that way, is that it's it means something in the mind of the person who's saying it, that's not at all tied to how everyone else wants to define it. But I would, I would chime in to say the word that I think needs a makeover is the word, "guard rails." During this session, we heard tons of discussion, "This needs guard rails, that needs guard rails, and everything needs guardrails," and in fact, Speaker Todd Gilbert made a joke at the very, very end of the Session, right before they adjourned, that he was joking about the bingo cards, you know, like during the General Assembly session, everybody, all the staffers, have these bingo cards. And then you know, as certain things happen, they you know, they cross off that square, and so the Speaker made a joke, that the word, "guardrails," was like instant bingo, because everyone is constantly talking about guardrails all the time. So that that would be my suggestion for a word or phrase that needs a makeover. All right now, I have been dutifully keeping score, as we have been playing this game, ladies and gentlemen, and I've got a winner. I'm going to declare the winner is you, the listener of our crossover podcast, for listening to all of our discussion on all these things. I want to say thank you to our contestants. Nathan Moore, the host of Bold Dominion, Katherine Hansen, that producer of Bold Dominion, and Thomas Bowman, the co host of Pod Virginia. Thank you all.
Nathan Moore
Michael, thank you so much for for hosting the show. It's it's been a pleasure to have the crossover.
Michael Pope
Pod Virginia is a production of Jackleg Media. Our Producer is Aaryan Balu. Our Social Media Manager is Emily Cottrell, and our Advertising Sales Manager is David O'Connor.
Thomas Bowman
Find us on Facebook or Twitter, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and hey, write a review on Apple Podcasts. It really helps people find the show.
Michael Pope
We'll be back next week with another episode of Pod Virginia.
