Michael Pope

Welcome to Transition Virginia, your favorite podcast about Virginia politics. No, no, scratch that, your favorite podcast. I'm Michael Pope.

Thomas Bowman

And I'm Thomas Bowman. Later in your favorite podcast, we'll talk to the longtime editorial page editor at The Roanoke Times. He's launching a fresh news outlet called, Cardinal News, that will cover Southwest and Southside Virginia named Dwayne Yancey. You'll definitely want to stick around for that.

Michael Pope

Gosh, it was really great to talk to Dwayne Yancey, it was really inspiring to hear him talk about his vision for covering the big picture news of the region, in depth and from the vantage point of Southwest and Southside.

Thomas Bowman

Two parts of Virginia that often get overlooked in news coverage, which tends to focus on the population centers, Michael, Northern Virginia, Hampton Roads, Richmond and there's more to Virginia than Northern Virginia, Hampton Roads, and Richmond.

Michael Pope

Also, Thomas, the cardinal, of course, is the official state bird of Virginia. It was designated as the official state bird way back in 1950, replacing the robin which had been considered the unofficial state bird until a fierce lobbying campaign by the Virginia Federation of Garden Clubs. They worked with Delegate William Cleeton of Mecklenburg County and Delegate Felix Edmonds of Waynesboro to introduce the bill arguing that the robin actually winters in North Carolina, while the cardinal is a year round resident of Virginia. Governor John Battle signed the bill and the cardinal has been the official state bird ever since.

Thomas Bowman

You know, that's interesting, Michael, because back then I would have thought Harry was the official state bird of Virginia.

Michael Pope

So Harry Byrd Jr. was in the State Senate at the time and voted in favor of the bill. Okay, so this is the part of the show where we welcome our new Patreons. Thomas, who's joining the Transition Team this week?

Thomas Bowman

We have two new patrons this week. John B., thanks for signing up to be a friend of the team. And Catherine R., you're in the donor circle. Thank you very much.

Michael Pope

You know, Thomas, being in the donor circle gives them access to exclusive content, right?

Thomas Bowman

Yes, Michael, any of our patrons, at this point, get access to our exclusive Patreon Feed. What does that mean? It means that we have a super top secret podcast that only people who pay us get to hear.

Michael Pope

It's even better than this podcast, if you if you can imagine that.

Thomas Bowman

Yes, yes, it is. And it's a safe space for us, Michael. We get to like let our guard down a little bit.

Michael Pope

It's a free speech zone.

Thomas Bowman

Yeah, the masses aren't listening so we can say whatever we want. And Michael gets unhinged.

Michael Pope

Well you should hear Thomas, he's just off the rails with the exclusive Patreon content. Okay, so the next thing we want to make sure that you have on your calendar is a huge event that's coming up. Check out this message about the Patriots of January 6.

Steve Artley

Hey everybody, this is Marty Mayhem, letting you know about an important event. Join our support for the heroes of January 6th, patriots who gallantly broke into the seat of our central U.S. federal government to take back the election that was stolen from us. We'll have the red cappers armpit belching fart course for the bowel moving rendition of, "God Bless America." See the Ladies Auxilary of Antivaxxers interpretive dance troop in their stunning reenactment of the heroic Capitol attack. They also perform the Lord's Prayer tap dancing to Portage Morse code. Bring the kids to the Suffer the Little Children's booth for free gummy gums. Sign them up for the cough, spit, and sneeze tournament and get your frustrations out at the Joe and Kamala dunk tank. So come on down to the Patriots of January 6 Rally and have a Grand Old Party already. Probably sponsored by Fascists Without Borders at the Timothy McVeigh Memorial Fund.

Michael Pope

Well, that rendition of, "God Bless America," sounds like something.

Thomas Bowman

My soul hurts, but that dunk tank does sound like a good fundraising idea, Michael.

Michael Pope

That was the one and only award winning editorial cartoonist, Steve Artley, delivering yet another masterpiece, this time inspired by the Justice For J. Six Rally last weekend. Also, I thought that idea about the dunk tank was really solid. We should have like a Transition Virginia dunk tank. I'm sure there are lots of people who would pay top dollar to dunk Michael Pope.

Thomas Bowman

You know, that will be an exclusive patron benefit soon. I don't know which tier to add that to. But once a month you get to dunk Michael Pope. That's right. It doesn't currently exist yet. So don't go looking for it. We'll let you know when it's out. But I think I know that Amanda Chase would probably want to sign up just to dunk you, Michael. And maybe the Glenn Youngkin campaign.

Michael Pope

We're raising money all over Virginia. Okay, let's get on to the news. Last week, the two major party candidates for Governor met for the first of two debates out of the Appalachian School of Law in Grundy. Former Governor Terry McAuliffe says, "[he] will preserve qualified immunity for police officers and mandate vaccines for covid 19." His opponent in the race, Republican Glenn Youngkin says, "[he's] worried Critical Race Theory is being taught in Virginia classrooms." And he says, "McAuliffe is trying to recycle the politics of the past."

Glenn Youngkin

We have a 20 year high in murder rate and yet my opponent embraces radical groups that want to defund police and close prisons. We watch our education system fail our children because he has sold out to the teachers unions, and the cost of living in Virginia is absolutely running away from us.

Michael Pope

Now the Washington Post called this debate, "contentious and bare knuckled." It certainly got rough and a little elementary school, if you know what I mean, as each candidate tried to frame the election by portraying the other candidate as too extreme. McAuliffe repeatedly returned to the specter of former President Donald Trump.

Terry McAuliffe

He's a Trump wannabe. He's endorsed by Donald Trump three times. He said he was honored to have his endorsement. He wants to ban abortions here in Virginia. The number one issue we talked about the entire campaign was election integrity. The big issue I'm talking about are jobs, economic development. That's how you grow, investing in education, lifting up healthcare.

Michael Pope

Not invited to the debate was Princess Blanding who says, "[she] supports Second Amendment rights, banning police unions, and decriminalizing sex work." Thomas, what did you make of the debate?

Thomas Bowman

Well, I still think that they're working on their talking points, Michael. Here's the reality. One, teachers are always among the most popular professions of anybody. So you're not going to score any political points, whatsoever, by beating up on teachers. I don't think Critical Race Theory is going to move the needle for anyone, nobody is coming out to vote for or against Critical Race Theory, which is not being taught in classrooms. The things that are going to matter in this debate, COVID, which Terry McAuliffe definitely hit on more than once, jobs and the economy, which is actually what I would be interested in hearing a Republican and a Democrat talk about, and education. And education, not Critical Race Theory, that's not going to move the needle, education, like we want our kids back in schools, and we want those schools to be safe for our kids to be in, in the middle of a pandemic, which one, I'm not sure how you thread the needle on that, but it's what people are going to care about, because they always want the best schools and that mirrors pretty much the same thing that every state campaign is about, which is usually transportation, jobs and education. So we have COVID now, that obviously is a thing that everybody cares about. And I would also say that what we're gonna find here is that Princess Blanding has some really interesting ideas, but ultimately, she's not going to move the needle. I actually like her idea about decriminalizing sex work, it would have been a move that Democrats should have done right at the outset of this pandemic so that all of the people who are laid off had a way to earn money, and you can regulate it, you can tax it, you can make sure that these people are not being abused or taken advantage of and qualify for health care. And then banning police unions is actually a very interesting position, and a nuanced position for somebody to take, too, and supporting the Second Amendment. I don't know enough about Princess Blanding's positions. I do wish she'd been in that debate. But ultimately here's what we know, is that Princess Blanding's supporters, if she has any, are coming from Terry McAuliffe, they're not coming from Glenn Youngkin. So we'll see if her not being included, helps Terry McAuliffe, or if she gets included later if it hurts Terry McAuliffe. But what I think you're going to see here is that things are going to settle out and Terry's gonna be up around five, which is similar to numbers coming out of our friends at the Schar School of Government in the poll they just produced with The Washington Post.

Michael Pope

So you said that they were still working on their talking points. It's worth thinking about the alternative history when there were not two debates, but there were three debates, and that first debate happened over the summer at the Omni Homestead in Hot Springs, where the Virginia Bar Association was hosting that debate, that traditional debate, that happened in the Dead of Summer, when there wasn't a huge spotlight on the candidates, and they could hone their talking points. And so now we're sort of forced to do that in, you know, the fall campaign season. Yeah. Also, I thought it was interesting where the candidates were distancing themselves from their own base. We saw that with Terry McAuliffe in two areas, where he said that he would, "preserve qualified immunity for police officers." So he disagrees with the Democrats that want to get rid of qualified immunity. And he was specifically asked, once again, about overturning Right to Work, once again, he did not answer the question of overturning Right to Work, which means he supports Right to Work. Once again, distancing himself from the Democratic base, which is interesting and noteworthy. We also saw Youngkin, surprisingly, distance himself from the Republican base on election integrity. He said that he, "believes Virginia has legit elections, he does not have questions about the legitimacy of Virginia elections, and if he lost the election, he would concede the race to McAuliffe," so like that's distancing himself from Trump, who specifically said the opposite about Virginia, in particular. Youngkin did not, was given the opportunity, but did not take the opportunity, to distance himself on this issue of Critical Race Theory. He, once again, said, "Critical Race Theory is being taught in Virginia classrooms," which it's not, it's a legal theory. It's like saying that the theory of equitable distribution in divorce cases is being taught in the third grade. It's not. What do you make of that disparity, Thomas? Like, why would you choose to distance yourself from the Trumpiest of all Trump issues, which is election integrity, but then maintain this idea that Critical Race Theory is being taught in classrooms in Virginia? What, why the disparity there?

Thomas Bowman

Well, you know, I couldn't tell you what Glenn Youngkin's team is thinking, or telling him, or preparing him to do. But what I can tell you is that those two things aren't equivalent. Supporting Right to Work or not supporting Right to Work is a legitimate policy position. And saying that you have trust in the electoral system, it should be a prerequisite to run for office for any party. So like the fact that that is what we're talking about as having Youngkin separate himself from the base. Well, then, like, who the heck is his base? And Michael, when I say that they're still working on their talking points, what I mean is, Terry McAuliffe is still running a message campaign about like, send a message to Donald Trump. We don't want people like Donald Trump in this state. And on Youngkin's side, it's send a message to Joe Biden, then that's why you're voting me. I think ultimately, neither one of those tactics are going to work because neither Joe Biden nor Donald Trump are running in this race. And this is historically not what encourages people to come out and vote in these kinds of off year elections.

Michael Pope

The California recall election is proof positive to Democrats, that running against Trump is still a successful strategy in 2021.

Thomas Bowman

Look, I'm not saying it's not going to carry him over the hump, what I am going to say is that it's not going to carry the entire General Assembly over the hump with him. Right? So he can win by 50 to 55%. But what you would end up having is a situation where the House Dems are only going to be up like on average of 3%, which is going to have them lose some seats, maybe not the whole majority. But I think that, this not the strategy that they really want to use in order to gin up support and encourage people to come out and vote for them based off the exciting policies that they're proposing.

Michael Pope

Okay, more to come, because there is one more debate between these two candidates, Princess Blanding will not be part of the next debate, and it is hosted by the Schar, our friends at the Schar School later this month on the 28th. Okay, so now it's time to check our voicemail. This week's voicemail is about a lawsuit we've talked about on a recent episode, challenging the new law ditching the long standing practice of prison gerrymandering. This week, the Supreme Court of Virginia denied the petition we talked about on the show from the constituents of Senator Travis Hackworth, challenging the new law. Meanwhile, we also got a voicemail on this issue from friend of the show Jordan Miles who also happens to be Vice Chairman of the Buckingham County Board of Supervisors. He heard our discussion of prison gerrymandering and sent us this voicemail.

Jordan Miles

How is it any more fair that they're going to be counted in their home localities where they offended where they haven't been in several years and aren't as well connected to the communities that they are in now, where they can learn about what's going on and contact their local boards of supervisors, and town council members, and representatives?

Michael Pope

Now, Thomas, I was surprised to hear some of the details about Buckingham County. They have not one, but two, prisons in Buckingham County. There's the Buckingham Correctional Center that has about 1000 male inmates and the Dillwyn Correctional Center which has about 1100 male inmates. So Virginia's plan to end prison gerrymandering, will have a very specific impact there in Buckingham County, which means 2000 fewer constituents for Delegate Matt Faris, Senator Mark Peake, and Congressman Bob Good. Now this debate about where do you count these people, definitely has resonance with the 3/5ths Compromise, which we heard about in our last podcast where we talked about this. And there is this interesting tension, like these people are physically located in Buckingham County. So the argument to have them count in Buckingham County is sort of, on its face, an argument that's worth taking seriously. And then, you know, on the other hand, they might be from a place that they haven't set foot in for 5, 10, 15 years. So what do you make of Supervisor Miles' argument, that if you're in Buckingham Correctional Facility, you can contact Supervisor Miles, you can contact the Buckingham County Board of Supervisors, and potentially get representation that way, right?

Thomas Bowman

Sure. Well, Jordan, thank you so much for calling in with that question, because that is, you're getting at something that's really integral. The very beginning of what you asked is, "how is it any more fair that they're going to be counted in their home localities, where they are, as opposed to where they are currently?" And what I would say, Jordan, is that it's not fair either way, because fairness is not what's at stake here. The individual themself, the person who's incarcerated, doesn't care where they're counted, because they can't vote. So what would make it fair, either way, is if they could vote. And if they could vote, then I think that it would make a lot more sense for them to count in, for example, Buckingham County, as opposed to them not being able to vote, being temporarily displaced from wherever it was that they were taken from. And they still have their families that they care about living in those original jurisdictions, they still have their communities in those original jurisdictions. The other thing I would say, Michael, is that, as somebody who has been legislative staff, who got contacted by people in prison, there's not really anything that staff can do to respond to them. Because it comes in a handwritten, by pencil, letter that's taken about three weeks or more to get to you. There is no way to call or email them because these people are not allowed to access, you know, modern means of communication. And often, it's not feasible for you to go across the state and go visit wherever it is that they're writing you from. And then they're not actually your constituent anymore, and they're in no man's land. So if you are the supervisor, you don't really represent this person because they can't possibly vote, they can't possibly vote for you. If you are the delegate receiving a letter from this, and you have to manage the casework and who's going to be responsible for it, again, they're not your constituent. There's nothing that you can really do for them because they're in the No Man's Land of prison. Michael, the other thing too, is I'd push back against the narrative that these are people who are detached from their original communities, like I said, because we don't know that they're actually there for 30 years, many people are only there for one year, in fact, that's going to be fewer than five years is gonna be the most common sentence handed down. And I would be interested in seeing some stats on that. But these people, you know, I've been in Richmond now for I'm going on my second year, I would not feel detached from Northern Virginia, if I were to go back today, right? So these are people who were taken against their will. They are where they are, they have a community that doesn't pass the four walls of that prison. So I don't know that like, it's not more fair that they're counted in their original jurisdiction, then it is that they're counted in the prison jurisdiction because they can't vote. That's what would make it fair is if they could vote. And that's kind of where I'm coming from on that.

Michael Pope

Yeah. I mean, if you take a look at the different options you've got here are the sort of the existing situation where they, the people in Buckingham County Correctional Facility, they're counted as a constituent of Delegate Fariss. But you know, the odds of going to Delegate Fariss and having him represent you on the floor of the General Assembly don't really seem great. I mean, they could go to Senator Peak and try to get sort of what they want out of Senator Peak. The odds don't really seem that great. So like, you could make the argument they're not really represented in any way that's meaningful to them, because they're not voters. Then again, you know, the, the alternative to that is okay, so they count in their home communities, wherever that is, maybe that's a place like Alexandria, you know, what it's possible person in prison hasn't been to Alexandria in five years, 10 years. I mean, like, I see your point about most of the cases are going to be smaller. But what about the cases that the person hasn't been to their home community for 30 years? Those cases are out there, those people are in prison. So like, Option A, has, is problematic. Option B is also problematic. Option C is let the incarcerated people vote, which you raised. And it's certainly worth thinking about. I mean, it's worth thinking about the alternative universe, where Delegate Fariss goes to the correctional facility to campaign, you know, among the inmates, or Senator Peak goes to the correctional facility in Buckingham County, where Supervisor Miles goes to the correctional facility to campaign to get votes at the correctional facility to hear what their concerns are, and to represent them. I actually am not hearing, Thomas, many elected officials raise that issue as a policy position they want to head in.

Thomas Bowman

No, I mean, and it's, it's really interesting, Michael, because earlier you said it was reminiscent of the 3/5ths Clause. And that's exactly where it comes from. In the spirit of what prison gerrymandering is, because you have this population that is deprived of their civil rights, that, it's generally a rural locality due to where prison populations tend to reside, but not always. But anyway, it's a rural locality that benefits from being able to count these people in census tracks and for the purposes of representation before general assemblies and before Congress. So the people that actually negatively affects, one way or the other, are not people who are in prison, it negatively affects the people who are not in prison, specifically in the home jurisdictions that they were taken from. These people can't vote either way, they're felons. They're people in the justice system, caught up in the justice system, they're not allowed to vote. So the people it harms are the people, like you mentioned, Alexandria City earlier. So the people in Alexandria City who are deprived of a delegate, because there are 1000s of people who would have been in Alexandria City, counting for Alexandria City, otherwise incarcerated elsewhere around the state. That's who it hurts, because these people don't have civil rights one way or the other, they should have civil rights, because then it minimizes the hurt.

Michael Pope

Is anybody talking about this, Thomas? I mean, can you remember any campaign? I know we're talking about, we talked about it on the show, actually a couple times now. Yeah. Like, have you heard any candidate raise this, or any member of the General Assembly talk about wanting to accomplish this?

Thomas Bowman

No. And it, look, here's the breakdown right now is the majority of Democrats in Virginia, represent urban or suburban areas. And these are places that, generally speaking, don't have prisons within them. So it is not something they're thinking about, because they don't have to deal with the prison politics in their communities. The Republicans are out of power. There's a whole racial element there between who is actually incarcerated in the first place. And the recent Republican Party has its history with race in the same way that the older Democratic Party and it's still reckoning with race. And it's something that a bunch of elected officials are privileged, regardless of the color of their skin, they're privileged. And it's not something that they are generally thinking about, from that perspective, on a day to day basis. And it's also not something that I thought about as a staffer either, Michael. It's something that I've only really been able to wrap my head around since getting out of state politics, or politics in general, and say, wait a second, this is kind of screwed up. Because the whole like, dichotomy, is the wrong debate to have. It's should we be giving them civil rights? Not where should we be artificially inflating numbers of people who are not eligible to vote? Michael that was a great conversation and Jordan Miles, Supervisor from Buckingham County, thank you so much again, because that prompted some, I think, a great conversation and I hope it's something that you and I agree it's not fair that they're counted anyway, because they don't get to vote. So let's take a break though, Michael, because when we come back, we'll be joined by the founder of a brand new news operation here in Virginia, Dwayne Yancey, and he's gonna tell us all about the newly created Cardinal News, which is set to take flight next week.

Michael Pope

And we're back on Transition Virginia. We're joined by the longtime editorial page editor for the Roanoke Times who's now launching a brand new news service called Cardinal News. You can find it at cardinalnews.org. Dwayne Yancey, thanks for joining us.

Dwayne Yancey

Happy to be here.

Thomas Bowman

Tell us about Cardinal News and what was the impetus to start this organization?

Dwayne Yancey

Cardinal News is a nonprofit, nonpartisan news site that will cover in depth journalism in Southwest and Southside Virginia, basically, from Cumberland County to the Cumberland Gap, if you want to think of it that way. The impetus for it was a changing media landscape in which we did not see much in depth reporting from that side of the state. And the goal is to provide that, to fill those gaps.

Michael Pope

Talk about that changing media landscape. So you've been in journalism for a number of decades. Explain how the media landscape has changed in a way that's disadvantageous to Southwest and South Side?

Dwayne Yancey

This is disadvantageous to a lot of places, Southwest and Southside just happens to be where we're from. The short version is that newspaper readers are everyday Vogue in the marketplace to consume their news online, that should not be a problem because every newspaper has a website. The problem is that the ad revenue does not follow. The readers may go to the newspaper website, but the ad revenue is getting vacuumed up by Facebook and Google and other sites. So as revenue declines, newspapers have only one recourse which is to cut staff. So we're seeing a lot fewer reporters than we have in the past.

Michael Pope

Well, our listeners will be familiar with one of our favorite guests, Amy Friedenberger, who appeared on the podcast a couple times and was with The Roanoke Times, of course, for a long time and sadly, she's now left the profession. So I mean, like that's a human face on this problem.

Dwayne Yancey

Yeah, the impetus for a lot of this were the layoffs that The Roanoke Times head back in the spring, part of the upshot of that was the political beak at the time got abolished, which meant there was no full time political reporter west of Richmond. And that was just unbearable to a lot of people in the community. And that's sort of emblematic of what's happening. The company had to make, you know, hard financial decisions, and that was one of them. I can't fault them for that, the numbers are what they are, but people still need and want that kind of reporting. And so what's happening around the country is we're seeing nonprofits spring up in many communities to fill that void. Last count, I think there were like more than 300 of them, according to the Institute for Nonprofit News. Those numbers have doubled in the past two years. So we are part of a nationwide trend.

Thomas Bowman

So, you mentioned nonprofit, Dwayne. Is Cardinal News organized as a nonprofit?

Dwayne Yancey

We have filed for 501 C3 status. Yes.

Thomas Bowman

And where does your money come from as a nonprofit?

Dwayne Yancey

It comes from, I don't want to steal the public broadcasting phrase of listeners like you, but that pretty close to the truth. We accept donations. And we hope that readers will support us. We are pledged to complete transparency, so on our website, you will find the list of who all our donors are and the amounts they have given.

Thomas Bowman

So no dark money?

Dwayne Yancey

No dark money.

Thomas Bowman

Good.

Michael Pope

Tell us about your staff. You haven't even launched yet. You're going to launch Monday the 27th. But in advance of that launch, you've already hired some big names in the world of journalism, right? Tell us about who you got writing for your site?

Dwayne Yancey

When we start we will have a staff of three, me as the editor and then two reporters. Our political reporter is Marcus Schmidt. He used to cover politics for the Richmond Times Dispatch. He's now writing politics for us. So we, we will start with a full time, State Capitol Bureau, something the media in this part of the state hasn't had for eight years. When we launch our business reporter will be Megan Schnabel, a longtime business writer for The Roanoke Times, a business writer and later editor, that 25 years of experience. So the goal has been to put together an all star team. We'd like to think of ourselves as small but mighty. And then we were putting together a core of freelancers around the region.

Thomas Bowman

So you've told us about your team, you've told us about your money, but Dwayne, who do you envision as the readers of Cardinal News?

Dwayne Yancey

We would see the readers as civically engaged people who were interested in Southwest and Southside. Yeah, we are not a replacement for daily newspapers. I hope people subscribe to daily newspapers. So we are not there to cover City Council's Board of Supervisors, shootings, Rex fires, that sort of thing. We are going to cover the the big picture stories. So I think anyone who is interested in the region, and yeah, that applies to people outside the outside the area, too.

Michael Pope

Tell us about that decision, the strategic decision there, to go with the big picture as opposed to the wreck, and the fire, and the like, your site is not a hyper local site. Walk us inside of that decision making process in terms of envisioning what this thing should be.

Dwayne Yancey

Because that's the coverage that wasn't happening. You can still get very fine coverage, the wrecks, the fires, the shootings, that sort of thing. What wasn't happening, are the big picture stories. Yeah, I talked about politics. But we're also very focused on the economy. Southwest and Southside are two parts of the state, they're going through a great economic transition right now. They've both seen traditional employers decline, in some cases die. Next tobacco and textiles and parts of Southside, coal and parts of the far Southwest Virginia. In Roanoke, the railroad was the dominant presence no longer is. But these are regions that are reinventing their economy. And our goal is to connect those dots and try to tell that story.

Thomas Bowman

You know, you talked about how the challenges and the region itself is evolving. So I'm wondering, as you are innovating in this landscape, as the trend toward a lot of journalism is to go more national, rather than hyperlocal. What is the role of innovation to cover the news in this kind of region?

Dwayne Yancey

Well, simply the delivery mechanism has changed. That used to be print. For me, radio and television have always been around. But we're in a whole new media landscape of how people consume their news. And anyone who is providing news needs to figure out those consumer choices and respond to them.

Thomas Bowman

Any thoughts on a podcast?

Dwayne Yancey

We've talked about that, may well do that.

Michael Pope

So you also have an advisory board with some pretty big names on it. Tell us a little bit about your advisory board and what kind of role they'll end up playing?

Dwayne Yancey

Well, we have two advisory boards, a community advisory board and then a journalism advisory board. The community advisory board is partly there to advise us not to get too deep into the filthy luchre. But how to raise money. People we should go to get that money. The journalism advisory group is there for exactly that purpose, to advise us on all matters of journalism. So that was a group we consulted on coming up with a name, again, called on various members of that group for for different things. I'm finding freelancers, in some cases, editing stories as we get ready for launch before we're fully staffed.

Michael Pope

And you have two former congressman working with you on your one of your advisory boards, right?

Dwayne Yancey

Yes, Bob Goodlatte and Rick Boucher, Goodlatte a Republican, Boucher a Democrat who conveniently like each other and came on as a package deal. Yeah, both are very concerned about a lack of serious news. Both have a technological background from their work in Congress. And both help us emphasize the point we've been trying to make, which is that we are a non partisan site. We're seeing lots of so called news sites spring up, they have some partisan bent. We do not want to be those, and thought that was a good way to emphasize that we are not those, we are not an advocacy site.

Thomas Bowman

So I'm wondering, you launch on September 27. Are you able or willing to tease what some of the content might be for that first issue? What are the news stories that Cardinal News will be covering that you won't find in your local press? Or the, you know, The Roanoke Times, for example?

Dwayne Yancey

I'm hesitant to say what you won't find, because I don't know what other media are doing and don't want speak for them. But I can speak to what we're doing. And generally speaking, yeah, we're looking for stories that others aren't covering. So I hope there is little to no overlap there.

Michael Pope

Like what? What would be some examples of that?

Dwayne Yancey

The redistricting commission is a big one. Obviously, lots of places are covering the redistricting commission. But you know, we're going to be covering it from the vantage point of Southwest and Southside, which is probably not the vantage point of other media, when it comes to drawing the congressional maps. The big question for us out here is, how will the 9th district expand? It's got to expand somehow. Will it bring in the whole Roanoke Valley or not? There are arguments for and against that. The for is it's a very logical thing to do, the against is they really starts to change the character of once very rural district, the bringing a metro area, that will be a big story for us.

Thomas Bowman

So Dwayne, you've got years of experience doing this and I'm wondering if you'd tell us a little bit about yourself? How did you go from college journalism at James Madison University to starting Cardinal News?

Dwayne Yancey

Well, that took several decades and a couple centuries, I suppose. The very first newspaper I worked on was one that I put together when I was in elementary school. I wrote up a newspaper every day and took it to my grandmother.

Michael Pope

You wrote a newspaper as an elementary school student? And took it to your grandmother? What kind of stories, if we were to find some of those old issues lying around somewhere? What what did you write about?

Dwayne Yancey

It was all about sports. Early on, I had great visions of being a sports writer. I don't think you will find great journalism there.

Michael Pope

The seeds of great journalism.

Dwayne Yancey

Yes, it obviously had a very small circulation. I worked in my high school paper in Monrovia High School in Rockingham County, I worked on my college paper, The Breeze at James Madison University. That was always something I'd sort of did for fun. And at some point, I realized, "Oh, you know, you can make a living at this." So that's what I've done. My first job was with a magazine in Richmond that no longer exists, Commonwealth Magazine, I was there for two years, in a very different century. And then went to The Roanoke Times and was there for 39 years as a reporter, as an editor, and loved it. As for the transition to Cardinal, there just seemed to be a need. And the opportunity was there and seemed too good to pass up.

Michael Pope

So you, you were at Roanoke Times for almost four decades. Clearly, you saw a changing media environment when you were there. Tell us about what's still the same today, in terms of journalism? What what's still the same today as it was 40 years ago, and then what's changed?

Dwayne Yancey

What is it the same is the need, and the desire of the people involved in it, to tell people what's going on in their community, that has never changed. What has changed is almost entirely on the business side. And that, course, that has ramifications on the news delivery side as well.

Michael Pope

Well, on that issue, one thing I think is interesting to think about in terms of the modern media landscape is that we are currently living in what should, rightfully, be considered a golden age of journalism. There's more journalism going on today than has ever happened before. It's also a time when journalism, as a profession, is experiencing this existential crisis in terms of what does it mean to be a journalist, and like, can people actually make a living doing it? So there's this tension there. There's all this news out there. But it's so difficult to actually make it work and be sustainable. What do you make of that tension?

Dwayne Yancey

Well, the way you describe it is absolutely right. I mean, we're at a transition point in history from one economic era to another, as far as news goes. We got lots of people in lots of places, trying to figure out what this new environment looks like, and how the... how to operate in it. So we are not alone.

Thomas Bowman

Well, what are you finding? What is this new environment look like, exactly?

Dwayne Yancey

Well, if I knew exactly, I would be very smart person. There is a lot less revenue available for news than there was in the past. And since people have to get paid, you know, that's sort of the central problem. That's why newspaper staffs are smaller. Yeah, it's not because the owners are evil, it's because the companies have less revenue. So if you have less revenue, you're gonna have fewer people and all that flows from that. But yet there's still... the the public hunger for news is not going away. In fact, you could argue that the public hunger has increased. So the challenge is figure out other ways to deliver that and other ways to supply that revenue. You know, the nonprofit model is the one we're doing, others may figure out something else.

Michael Pope

And tell us about the future of Cardinal News, like five years down the line, 10 years down the line, what will it look like? How many people will be involved? Where's this thing headed?

Dwayne Yancey

Those are all very good questions. I hope that there is a great public response. And that we are able to generate a lot of support, both readers and readers who were willing to support us financially, so that we were able to grow the staff. There are a lot of great story ideas out there, I've been sort of overwhelmed by the number we have gotten, compared to the size staff we have. So would love more financial support to provide a bigger staff and more journalism.

Thomas Bowman

So it sounds like you have a scalable plan then, so if you have obviously a shoestring budget, it's going to limit what you can do. But you are the first outfit in Southwest Virginia to have a dedicated Richmond reporter. So already, you're breaking new ground for Southwest Virginia, and Southside Virginia news organizations. But what is your ideal dream? If you had all the money you needed and fully funded, what would Cardinal News be delivering to the readers and listeners in Southside Virginia?

Dwayne Yancey

I would love to have reporters throughout the region, lots of bureaus out there with reporters in each one, to focus on their particular communities, again, to provide the big picture stories that otherwise aren't going to get done. The wrecks, the fires, the shootings will always get covered. But yeah, how the economy is changing, it's a much harder story to cover. And that's what we're trying to set out to do.

Michael Pope

Great. So we really appreciate your time. We look forward to reading Cardinal News at cardinalnews.org, in the future, especially after you launch on Monday, the 27th. Tell us a little bit more about sort of where people can find more information about your new news operation and and what they should think about it?

Dwayne Yancey

Well, I don't want to tell people what to think. When I was editorial page editor of The Roanoke Times, I always wanted people to think for themselves. They can find all the news at cardinalnews.org.

Michael Pope

So I know when you were at The Roanoke Times, you you had a brief period of time where you worked in video, I think you had something called The Times Cast like 20 years ago? Any sort of future video or, you know, outside of just the written word on the computer screen, other kinds of ways of delivering news?

Dwayne Yancey

We are certainly open to all that. There was a time, the early part of the century when The Roanoke Times was very innovative in trying to figure out sort of this new media landscape and we started a daily video newscast. In hindsight, it was all quite primitive technologically. One day, we shut off the power to the building because we overloaded the circuits with all the equipment we had. The building was not built for that. Yeah, also learns how complicated that is, and you know video is a special thing. And that is not something print people do very well.

Thomas Bowman

Well, I know you don't want to tell people what to think. But I'd like to do that. I think that people should understand just what a critical role, Cardinal News is going to play in covering the regions of South Side and Southwest Virginia. And that you have an important mission, you know, to deliver this news in depth, and like you say, not fires, or car wrecks, but real complex news and information on the changing economy, and on the changing landscape, and maybe the energy situation on the transition away from coal. And that is something that a lot of people need to understand better. And so because of that, for you who is listening to this, you should very much consider supporting Cardinal News. And they've you've got a donation portal if on your website, cardinalnews.org. If somebody is so inclined, and wants to either do it out of the goodness of their heart or because they want to see their name as a supporter, if you contribute, what is it over $100 Dwayne? So I definitely think that if you're listening to this right now, and you have the means to do so, you should help Cardinal News, get off the ground.

Dwayne Yancey

We appreciate it. We think so too.

Thomas Bowman

So that's all for this episode.

Michael Pope

Support us on Patreon or send us an email to TransitionVApodcast@gmail.com

Thomas Bowman

Like and follow @TransitionVA on Twitter and anywhere pods are cast.

Michael Pope

Read the transcripts at transitionvirginia.com. And special thanks to Emily Cottrell for figuring out what the heck we're saying.

Thomas Bowman

Thanks for being on the Transition Team. We're your hosts, Thomas Bowman.

Michael Pope

And I'm Michael Pope.