IN THE NEWS:

1. In a 2019 memoir, Kamala Harris described herself as a "progressive prosecutor.” But many criminal justice reform advocates aren't so sure about her record, which includes prosecuting parents when their students were truant and notifying immigration authorities when undocumented juveniles were charged with felonies.

2. Trump Force 47 is the name of the Republican get-out-the-vote operation this year. It involves training sessions at various locations across Virginia where volunteers are learning about how to target potential voters in critical precincts. But will it actually expand the base?

3. The Fraternal Order of Police of Virginia is calling on the Virginia Association of Commonwealth's Attorneys to investigate slot-machine style devices known as skill games--specifically, Fairfax, Henrico and Portsmouth.  Some of those prosecutors note that it's law enforcement's job to investigate crimes.

Episode Transcript

Michael Pope  

I'm Michael Pope.

Lauren Burke  

I'm Lauren Burke.

Michael Pope  

This is Pod Virginia. A podcast that has a gold medal in Virginia politics.

Lauren Burke  

Gold Medal; really? 

Michael Pope  

Yeah, we're Olympics crazy. Everyone's watching the Olympics. They're so fascinating. But yeah, when Pod Virginia gets the gold medal, and they raise the Virginia flag, the anthem will be our theme song. All right, let's get to the news. Progressive prosecutor for President. In a 2019 memoir, Kamala Harris wrote about her time as a prosecutor by saying that she was there for victims of crime. But that she was also there for the victims of a broken criminal justice system. She describes herself as a progressive prosecutor. Alexandria Commonwealth's Attorney Bryan Porter was a founding member of the Progressive Prosecutors for Justice.

Bryan Porter  

 On some level, I do see her as a kindred spirit. She spent a lot of time as a real prosecutor; she actually tried cases. I think there's a great wealth of experience there, and if she wields her experience to teach her humility and how to use power thoughtfully and not capriciously. I think she's going to be an outstanding candidate and a wonderful president.

Lauren Burke  

However, many criminal justice reform advocates aren't so sure about her record, which includes prosecuting parents when their students were truant. And notifying immigration authorities when undocumented juveniles were charged with felonies. Brad Haywood is the chief public defender in Arlington and founder of Justice Forward Virginia. 

Brad Haywood  

If you asked any chief public defender who works with a so-called progressive prosecutor, they would tell you the exact same thing. It's a mixed bag. They're not doing the things they promised, but they're better. Most of them are better, and Kamala Harris, I think, probably does count as similar.

Michael Pope  

On the campaign trail, Harris is already drawing attention to her background as a prosecutor by highlighting the difference between her and former President Donald Trump, who, of course, has been found guilty of 34 felony counts. Lauren, this ongoing conversation about progressive prosecutors for justice is fascinating because it's a lightning rod for controversy. These prosecutors in Virginia who call themselves progressive prosecutors for justice draw a lot of attention to them, good and bad. There are lots of people who think that it's a terrible idea to have progressive prosecutors for justice because, in their mind, the critics say they actually don't prosecute crimes they don't want to prosecute. They don't like that, they think that's a bad idea. It's interesting because while Harris does call herself a progressive prosecutor in that 2019 book, lots of her record is not really all that progressive. As a prosecutor, she had a program where she prosecuted parents of students who were truant. So, if the students were habitually late, she prosecuted the parents. But I think the more egregious step that she took, from the perspective of progressives and liberals, is working with the mayor of San Francisco on this immigration program, where she notified federal immigration authorities when undocumented juveniles were charged with felonies. Working with ICE is a big red flag for a lot of progressives. One thing I find interesting about her record as a prosecutor is that it probably would have engendered a lot of discussion if there had been a Democratic primary. But Lauren, we've found ourselves in a position where she got to skip the primary and go right into a general.

Lauren Burke  

Yeah, that's not her fault. I'm not a big fan of the anointing of candidates without primaries. I do think we need to hear a discussion, and that typically happens in the primary. The party loves to anoint people because they don't want to spend money and have arguments the other party can use against you during the general. I totally get not wanting a primary and all that, but it tends to yield bad results. I think about Hillary Clinton, and I think about the 2009 race with McAuliffe, where there was no challenger, and then Cuccinelli almost won. I like a primary. I like a primary, particularly on the presidential level. But in this particular example, it's not the Vice President's fault that this happened. The party did decide on President Biden. He ends up leaving the race on June 21, and I think people thought that, even though, yes, he's older, I think most people thought he could make it to the end, but it turns out that he couldn't. Couldn't make it to November 5. It's an unusual situation and a condensed situation.

Michael Pope  

It's a quirk of timing that we found ourselves in a position where there was no primary. If Biden had said last year that he was not going to seek another term, there would've been all these candidates. We would have had this long discussion about their records, comparing and contrasting. We skipped all of that because we moved right into the general. Harris really has a mixed picture here. It's a mixed bag of her record. There are some things she did that actually could be read as being progressive. I think the most notable example was in 2004, in San Francisco, there was a gang member who killed a cop. Lots of people were calling for the death penalty to be used against this gang member who killed the police officer. Harris said, No, I'm not going to seek death penalty charges if you don't like it, jump in a lake or whatever. There was pushback, including Senator Feinstein actually making a public display of disagreeing with Kamala Harris on that. If you're against the death penalty, that is a point for the progressive prosecutors for justice because they were against the death penalty, as well here in Virginia. In fact, they advocated in favor of getting rid of the death penalty here in Virginia. You could read that part of her record as being a progressive prosecutor. Then there's this other stuff, working with ICE. There are a lot of people that don't really like that. It's really a mixed picture in terms of her background, in terms of whether or not she's progressive. But she does call herself a progressive prosecutor, so there's that.

Lauren Burke  

I think she actually might be head over time with regard to punishing parents for their kids being truant. Because we're now seeing cases where parents are being prosecuted for their kids being involved in serious gun crimes. There's an interesting clip of X from 2006 where she is talking. At the time, she was the District Attorney of San Francisco. She gives an extremely nuanced answer with regard to her work covering all the issues with regard to race and the criminal justice system in the United States, the fact that it's not talked about much. Certainly, there are a lot of Black communities who do want policing and safety just like everybody else. But there's a nuanced answer there. We understand the history of those communities, and it has not been good. It has been disproportionately punitive on Black communities; she brings all of that up. But she also brings up the importance of public safety. The thing I'm not seeing from the critics of her justice record is the glaring case, like the ones that we see down south. When a person gets 30 years on a marijuana arrest. The three strikes you're out style, punitive policing, the unfair sentencing, the demand as a district attorney for a long punitive sentence. I haven't seen anybody bring up a case like that with regard to the vice president when she was a prosecutor. I just haven't heard it yet. When it comes to immigration, that's an issue President Joe Biden has sort of been trucking to the right on when it came to the question of amnesty in the United States. The Democrats are struggling to figure out where they want to land on immigration. Because, of course, the Republican Party is really using that as a wedge issue. There's a lot to say there, but again, I don't see the big, glaring, embarrassing case that she had, where she pushed to have somebody locked up on a relatively minor crime. 

Michael Pope  

There is a lot to talk about in terms of her record, especially her record as a prosecutor, which I'm sure we'll get into as this campaign unfolds. Let's move on to our next story, GOP, GOTV. Trump Force 47 is the name of the Republican get-out-the-vote operation this year. It involves training sessions at various locations across Virginia, where volunteers learn how to target potential voters in critical precincts. Jeff Ryer is a spokesman for the Trump campaign in Virginia.

Jeff Ryer  

I think the neighbor-to-neighbor approach helps expand the base because it puts a person who's already supporting President Trump in contact with a prospective voter. 

Lauren Burke  

But will Trump Force 47 expand the base? David Ramadan is a former Republican member of the House of Delegates who is now with the Schar School at George Mason University. He says it's probably impossible for the Trump campaign to expand the base, so their best strategy is to have the highest possible turnout of the existing base.

David Ramadan  

It's an army of volunteers. The play also includes army and defense, which cater to the far-right base. He's trying to get them engaged and out so they'll vote on November 5.

Michael Pope  

Yeah. If you go to the Trump Force 47 website for Virginia, you can sign up to be a Trump precinct captain. Or you can sign up to host a house party. Or even take a shift as a poll watcher, which is going to be very important as we start early voting, which starts on September 20. It's right around the corner, and there's going to be lots of poll watchers in the early voting. Especially, of course, on election day. Lauren, I'm fascinated by the idea that Trump could possibly expand his base somehow. Do you think that's possible?

Lauren Burke  

I think it's unlikely. Certainly, if he keeps campaigning the way he is now. There's really no indication that he's going to change what he says and the way he talks. Which I think is not something that swing voters, which you'd think would be his target, are into. I have got to talk to Ryer about the headquarters issue because I thought I'd heard there was going to be some Trump Force 47 headquarters in Virginia where they were opening offices. It'd be interesting to learn about that. I don't understand why the national Republicans haven't figured this out. Still, a few of the Virginia Republicans have figured out how to win, which is the Bob McDonald, Glenn Youngkin strategy of at least looking moderate during an election. Not being Corey Stewart or E.W. Jackson. I don't understand why the national Republicans have floated away from this. But at least try to pretend that you are moderate and not going to be to the far-right. I don't know that he could expand the base. It's interesting that would be a strategy. 

Michael Pope  

Trump Force 47 is really about the operational part of it. More people are getting out the vote, not as many issues. I agree with you; Republicans would do better electorally if they figured out a way to be more moderate. You would pick up more votes that way. Clearly, a lot of the rhetoric being used at the top of the ticket is not very moderate. But the GOTV effort is really identifying precinct captains at all of the precincts in every jurisdiction across Virginia. Identify those people and then give them the title of Trump precinct captain. Then, have them identify how many votes they can get in their precinct and go and turn out the vote. Of course, every campaign needs a Get Out the Vote operation. It's smart of them to have this thing. The name is funny, too; Trump force 47. It almost sounds like a professional wrestling tag team duo. Then Ramadan explains the part of this that's military rhetoric like you're joining the Space Force or something.

Lauren Burke  

Yeah, it's interesting that issues would not be talked about. 

Michael Pope  

There's an issue part of their campaign operation; then there's the GOTV part of their operation. The Trump Force 47 part of this, which I was personally focused on because of the reporting I was doing. I wanted to learn more about their get-out-the-vote operation. Because you can sign up to be a poll watcher and that sort of thing, it's smart of them to do this. They've had these training sessions, and they're in all these different jurisdictions. They're training people about phone banking, and here's how you identify the voters that are in your precinct. Interestingly, they are actually engaged in these training sessions to make sure that local Republicans in all of the precincts in jurisdictions across Virginia have a game plan in terms of getting out the vote.

Lauren Burke  

Yeah, GOTV, I think it would be good to talk about what former President Trump plans to do in a second term. When you talk to folks who knock on doors, the number one thing that comes up is the economy. You'd think that is part of the GOTV effort. No matter what it may be, whether it be home banking or whatever. By the way, the idea of, oh, let's go talk to your neighbor is the red, wine, and blue idea that the Democrats are doing in the southwest; that's kind of funny. I'm not saying that's their original idea, but the idea of person-to-person contact is important. It'd be interesting to see their talking points. It'd also be interesting to see where they set up their Virginia headquarters. I learned this weekend that, apparently, the Biden team, not the Harris team, is too young for it to be their fault. But the Biden team didn't want to put the headquarters in Norfolk. The local Democrats down there made it happen anyway. They have a headquarters in Norfolk. Norfolk, I think, is number two or three in the Black population in Virginia. But as far as the Republicans, it would be really interesting to see where they set up headquarters and where they do their phone banking. The level of energy on their side is definitely there. I saw it in Chesapeake on June 28. But that was before Vice President Harris entered the scene. It'd be interesting to see when they start having rallies in Virginia. 

Michael Pope  

The Republicans believe Virginia is in play. They believe they have a shot at winning the electoral points for Virginia and that Trump taking Virginia. Republicans actually feel like Virginia is in play. That Virginia would be a swing state. I guess Trump Force 47 is aimed right at that. They want to get out the vote and turn Virginia red. We will have to stay tuned to see if that happens. For now, let's move on to our next story: Illegal machines. The Fraternal Order of Police in Virginia is calling for the Virginia Association of Commonwealth's attorneys to investigate those slot machine-style devices, known as skill games. Brad Carruthers is President of the Virginia Fraternal Order of Police; he says some convenience stores in Virginia might still be operating these games, even though they are against the law.

Brad Carruthers  

I believe that there are jurisdictions where the prosecutors don't view it as a criminal offense, even though it's clearly on the books as one. 

Lauren Burke  

Brad Carruthers mentioned Fairfax, Henrico, and Portsmouth. All three of those jurisdictions have elected leaders who are part of a group known as the Progressive Prosecutors for Justice.

Brad Carruthers  

In the way that they are progressively prosecuting these cases in general, I think they would view it as a victimless crime and wouldn't follow through with the prosecution.

Michael Pope  

I reached out to several of the Progressive Prosecutors to see how they reacted to this. I got a written statement from Portsmouth Commonwealth attorney Stephanie Morales. She said her office will consider the results of completed investigations by law enforcement in order to make prosecutorial decisions. The Henrico Commonwealth Attorney, Shannon Taylor, says her office will continue to carry out duties with the utmost commitment to public safety and justice. Adding that her office remains in close communication with local law enforcement regarding any necessary actions. I also reached out to the Virginia Association of Commonwealth's attorneys to see what their reaction to this letter from the Fraternal Order of Police. Amanda Howe responded with this written statement, quote, we are surprised to read that Virginia FOP is calling on us to investigate, as state and local law enforcement agencies have the primary responsibility for investigating reports of violations of the law and then bringing those cases to prosecution via warrants or consideration for direct indictments, unquote/ That was the statement from the Virginia Association of Commonwealth attorneys. It's interesting because, when you think about investigations, typically, the police do investigations. Why would you call on the prosecutors to do an investigation? My interview with the head of the Fraternal Order of Police shined a spotlight on that and revealed a bit more of their thinking than their actual letter. The letter didn't say this, but when I interviewed him, he said, well, those progressive prosecutors are not going to prosecute these cases. 

Lauren Burke  

Yeah. I think the obvious reason why they brought this up is to try and make it look as if progressive prosecutors don't prosecute things, that they don't prosecute crimes. We just want to bring that up. This has the feel of a solution, looking for a problem. I do think, and I have nothing against law enforcement here, but law enforcement is so into our lives in one way or another; it's why I have resistance against things like flock safety and stuff like that. Because every time you turn around, there's some sort of reason that somebody wants to be involved, and it's law enforcement. Why, I have no idea; isn't there enough to do? Isn't there enough things to be handled? If you're in the district attorney's office or the Fraternal Order of Police. But for some reason, they chose this, and they wanted to talk about it. Let's face it, they wanted to have democratic prosecutors talking about this. Well, we're talking about it now. I think that this is extremely political. It's a reflection of the age we live in. Everyone is trying to get someone to say they're soft on crime. The United States leads the world in the rate of incarceration. We're above China, Russia, and everybody else. I don't think we're failing in our abilities to put people behind bars. That's not something that we're weak at. I'm a little confused here, and I'd love to know more as the weeks go on. 

Michael Pope  

Part of the dynamics here is the Fraternal Order of Police part of this. The group that is against skill games. You've got conservative Christians against skill games. The Fraternal Order of Police is against skill games. There are a bunch of groups trying to prevent legislation to legalize them. That's part of the background; the Fraternal Order of Police doesn't like skill games. They don't want legislation legalizing them. In my interview with him, the President explained his motivation for this letter; the statement called on the prosecutors' association to conduct an investigation. This was prompted by the excellent reporting from Graham Moomaw and the Virginia Mercury in their July 11 story: Skill games remain illegal in Virginia, but some businesses are evading the ban. The summary of the story is pretty clear; these illegal machines are still around in some places. Then you've got to ask yourself the question; how do the owners of those convenience stores get away with evading the law? That's when you come back around to the perspective of the Fraternal Order of Police; maybe those machines are operating in jurisdictions that have progressive prosecutors for justice.

Lauren Burke  

This is amazing to me. If the Fraternal Order of Police wants to focus on something, they should focus on guns. That's what's dangerous for law enforcement officers. The National FOP, and I suspect the Virginia FOP, never wants to talk about that. But if you want to talk about things that are dangerous for cops, that's dangerous for cops; the amount of guns that we have in circulation. But they won't do that because they don't want to embrace the Democratic position on guns. At some point, people have to break away from their internal politics. We watched Kim Cheatle, the former head of the secret secret service, completely dodge a question from Virginia Congressman Gerry Connolly. It was a very simple question, which you had to repeat 50 times. It was, is it dangerous to have guns? Is it dangerous for the Secret Service to have all these guns? She didn't want to answer that because a lot of these cops are Republicans. They always want to be looking like Republicans, even when it's dangerous for their profession. I have no idea how they got locked onto the subject of skill games. But there are so many other things out there, such as life and death issues. Guns are one of them, but they never make a statement about that. It completely confuses me because that's a danger of life and death. If you don't believe that, go to Officer Down; there's a website called Officer Down, and you can see, on a daily basis, members of our law enforcement community being killed. Unfortunately, there are a lot of car accident-related things. But still, it's a gun and being shot. I don't know why they locked on the skill games, but here we are. Again, I will read to learn more about this because I am confused. 

Michael Pope  

Alright, let's play some trivia.

Lauren Burke  

Last week, we asked you which one of Virginia's congressional districts has the largest partisan tilt.

Michael Pope  

Some of you guessed that it was the eighth congressional district, home of Don Beyer. That's a good guess because it has a partisan advantage of +47 for Democrats. 

Lauren Burke  

People who guessed the eighth congressional district include Zach Lincoln, Steve Verdier, Jay Speer, and Lauren Kaiser.

Michael Pope  

Wow, +47 for Democrats. That's got to be the most partisan, right? Wrong.

Lauren Burke  

The correct answer is the fighting ninth congressional district, which has a +48.3 advantage for Republicans.

Michael Pope  

Wow, +48.3. Wow, that's quite a tilt for the fighting ninth. And we have some winners. Two people were winners: Albert Pollard and Matthew Montgomery. 

Lauren Burke  

Is that the same Matthew Montgomery whose social media profile notes that he is the undisputed all-time Pod Virginia trivia champion? 

Michael Pope  

Yep, that's the one. Congratulations, Matthew Montgomery and Albert Pollard; you have a +48 point advantage over everybody else playing our trivia game.

Lauren Burke  

What's our trivia question for next week? 

Michael Pope  

The trivia question for next week is this: What industry was Jamestown supposed to cultivate? The Jamestown colony was specifically founded for a specific industry. To cultivate an industry and to help the crown. Our trivia question is; what industry was supposed to be cultivated by founding Jamestown?

Lauren Burke  

If you think you know the answer, hit us up on social media. You might even win a prize. 

Michael Pope  

Let's head over to the water cooler. Lauren, what's the latest you've heard around there?

Lauren Burke  

The latest I'm hearing, after a weekend of going to various events, including the Chesapeake Democratic Women's Crab Fest, is one of my favorites. The Norfolk Dems breakfast was where Delegate Jackie Glass got up and said something that I've heard a few people say. I think it is interesting and important. This is because even with all the excitement around the Vice President, and of course, both of these events were packed, particularly the Norfolk Dems breakfast, it was really packed. If I had to guess, it had more people than it had in years. She was making the point that people need to pay attention to down-ballot races. Because when we talk about the things that are threatening our democracy, those things usually happen at the school board level and the city council level. It was funny. Later the same day, last Saturday in Chesapeake, I had a lady sitting next to me who said the exact same thing. I thought it was a good point. In fact, in a lot of the towns down in Hampton Roads, there are mayoral races, city council candidates, and school board candidates. I'm sure this is the case around Virginia. As you know, Alexandria is electing a new mayor. Richmond is electing a new mayor. In Hampton Roads and Chesapeake, there are a lot of races down the ballot. And we do hear people say, pay attention to down-ballot races. But at this moment, where all of the attention is going to Vice President Harris, it's particularly important to note that a lot of the drama started this whole discussion about saving our democracy. This, of course, was what President Biden had been talking about during his campaign, which really started on a local level, particularly with the school. That's it, that's my water cooler. 

Michael Pope  

I struggled with what to talk about in my water cooler segment. I was going to talk about something that's related to what you just talked about; down-ballot races. Where I live in Alexandria, the school board is on the ballot. This is a nonpartisan race. There are nine seats. And guess how many candidates there are for the nine seats? Nine candidates, nine seats. Everybody wins, and nobody loses. That's a very boring election for the school board. Which I guess makes sense because being on a school board these days is a tough slog. It's difficult. You got a lot of angry people on all sides. People are angry with you for not being liberal enough. People are angry with you for not being conservative enough. Basically, it's an impossible job because the only thing you can do is make people angry. You can never please people with this job. Who wants to do it? I think at some point, Alexandria and other jurisdictions might even find themselves in a position where they can't even muster up nine candidates for the nine seats. I think that may be on the horizon. Where you've got seats that don't have anybody running for the seat. That's something to think about. I was thinking about doing that for the water cooler, but instead, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do something a little different. I'm going to turn this around and use my water cooler segment to ask you a question. Lauren Burke, you are a member of the National Association of Black Journalists, correct?

Lauren Burke  

Yes, I am.

Michael Pope  

I think you know where I'm going with this. I'm curious to get your read on the decision to have Trump speak at the convention. The Q and A session they had. It was very controversial. I was reading about it, and I heard about it in journalism circles, and I received all these emails in these industry publications; man, this was contentious. There are lots of people on both sides of this saying Trump is newsworthy. This is what you do with newsworthy people. You put them on a stage, and you ask them tough questions. You grill them, and you cross-examine them. This is the job of journalists; of course, he should be on the stage being asked these questions. You had lots of people saying you're platforming him. He's so hateful and divisive that why are you giving this guy a platform? I can see both sides. I would lean on the side of inviting the newsworthy person up on the stage, asking them tough questions. But I can see the other side of it. I'm curious; what are your thoughts on this organization putting him on a stage and asking him questions? 

Lauren Burke  

I'm not a big fan of the idea that I don't want to platform somebody because I don't like their views. I do think it is the job of journalism to ask tough questions and get answers. The problem with the National Association of Black Journalists and the setup of this entire thing is that it's extremely difficult in a three-person panel to have time to follow up in a pointed way that yields good answers and thorough questioning in a way that you would need to do with someone like former President Trump. Who is extremely, and I say this all the time, people think he's crazy. He might be crazy, but he's not stupid. He is, in fact, extremely good at getting his message out and using other people's platforms to get that message out. You remember he did this to Morning Joe and CNN for two years. He used their platform to put his message out. Whether or not it was accurate or not. It didn't seem to matter to anyone at the time. He knows what he's doing. He knows how to interrupt at the right time, filibuster, and talk over someone when they're saying something that he doesn't want the audience to hear. He's really good at that. He's really good because he's been doing this for about 30 or 40 years. He knows how to play the media. You know, that moment when he brings up Vice President Harris's ethnicity is really when he wants to talk about something else. And it works because the New York Times, in fact, ends up doing this big, deep dive analysis into how Black is Vice President Harris. They go for the okie-doke every time at the New York Times and the Washington Post. And he knows that. He knows that if he brings certain things up, the media will go for it. I'm talking big media. It matters because everybody copies the New York Times. With that said the National Association of Black Journalists has been around for about 68 years, almost 70 years. The tradition of Black journalism is typically extremely activist-based in a lot of ways because you have to bring up some things that the majority of society does not want to talk about. A lot of that is around injustice. Knowing all that, knowing who Donald Trump is, and knowing his interview style, you can't just bring him in at the last minute and send an email at 10pm at night to the membership. Oh, by the way, we're going to have President Trump on the stage in Chicago in less than 48 hours. Which is what they did. On top of it all, a three-person panel, one of the panelists works for the PR firm that is Fox News. The PR firm for the Republican Party, and specifically for Donald Trump. They lost a defamation court case to the tune of $787 million. Why? Because they were lying for Donald Trump. Then you put one of their anchors up there? That made no sense to the membership, and I can tell you that the membership was extremely hot. Because you know who this person is. Again, I'm not for the idea we shouldn't platform him. It's not that we shouldn't platform him, but we gotta have a game plan on exactly how he is questioned. 

Michael Pope  

I thought Rachel Scott from ABC News just totally crushed it. I would take that video, the section of the video where she is asking him questions, and show that to journalism students and say, this is how it's done.

Lauren Burke  

Exactly. And, of course, that question is very jolting to people. People are very uncomfortable on both sides of the political aisles about that question because no one's asked it before. Nobody has asked Donald Trump about his patterns of racism and the racist statements that he makes. No one's asking that. Anderson Cooper's not asking that. 

Michael Pope  

That question was killer. I was very impressed by her whole performance. Her follow-up questions were great because, as you pointed out, Trump is slippery. He'll try to slip his way out of questions and then filibuster and say whatever it is he wants to say. She kept him on track. Trying to get him to respond to questions, or at least make it clear to the audience that he wasn't actually answering the questions. She was fact-checking him in real-time, particularly the ethnicity question. I thought Rachel Scott's performance on the stage with Donald Trump is exactly the argument for, yes, you want to put the newsmaker up on the stage and cross-examine them. You want to grill them and get the news out of them that way.

Lauren Burke  

Exactly. I thought it would have been a better idea to have only Rachel Scott on the stage with him. If it had just been Rachel Scott and Donald, imagine what would have happened. The best interview I've seen of Donald Trump is with Jonathan Swan, who was at Axios at the time. Now he's at the New York Times. Jonathan Swan was in a one-on-one with Donald Trump. He is fact-checked in real time. He did exactly what Rachel Scott did by reading back the exact words that Trump has said. So you're reading back to him what he has said; it couldn't get any better than that. When we're talking about the specific issues that concern NABJ and Black communities, Rachel Scott was able to corral a bunch of statements that were racist and then read them back to Donald. Of course, he didn't want to deal with that. Of course, you saw the kerfuffle there about the hold-up because we're going to have real-time fact-checking. Which we didn't have. But the very threat of real-time fact-checking, of course, delays this thing by 20 minutes because Trump's people are in the back fighting that because his brand is lying.

Michael Pope  

Just so our listeners are clear on this in the event. If you watch the full tape, Trump lies about why they started late and says it's because you guys couldn't get your act together. That the microphones weren't working, and yada yada. As it turns out, that wasn't true. It was a lie. He knew it was a lie. The reason for the delay was they were trying to negotiate their way out of Politifact, fact-checking them in real-time. That caused the delay. But then he lies about the reason for the delays. It's very typical of Trump.

Lauren Burke  

Again, he's smart because what he did there was lied about the reason for the delay. People report the lie; oh, the NABJ didn't have their act together. The equipment wasn't right, and they didn't know what they were doing. He knows that the media is going to run with what he says. By the way, this has happened in a lot of cases where, if you just put something out there, the media is quoting the person without checking whether or not what they said was true. In his case, that's unforgivable because we know what his track record is. It would be different if it was someone who is known for telling the truth, and then all of a sudden, they lied. You quoted them, and then you found out later that it was a lie. This is Donald Trump. Part of the disagreement in the ranks at NABJ was, we know who this is. We know what he's going to do, and the leadership at NABJ put him on stage with no plan. Then somebody from Fox News was sitting there. Who, by the way, is not even a member of NABJ. That would be Harris Faulkner. That made no sense. There's definitely some tumult going on, to say the least.

Michael Pope  

You said a lot of things there, Lauren, but I don't know what your answer was. If you were in charge of the organization, would you have put him on stage? Would you have asked the questions?

Lauren Burke  

Oh, hell yeah, I would have put them on the stage. I would have put them on the stage immediately. But I would put them on the stage with the types of journalists that would have gotten answers. I probably would not have put a three-person panel. There's always somebody in the three-person panel who's weak. You need to put somebody up there like April Ryan, Roland Martin, or Michael Harriet. There are so many Black journalists to think about it. Over 3000 Black Journalists are sitting in that room. But they put on a rookie from Semafor. Semafor was created by Ben Smith, a media reporter from the New York Times. Two years ago, they put on Harris Faulkner. Harris Faulkner is a PR rep for Fox News for Rupert Murdoch on behalf of Donald Trump. Everything they do is effectively an in-kind donation. The only real journalist sitting up there knew what she was doing, as you saw, that was Rachel Scott. I'm all for putting Trump up there. There should be no fear about putting Trump up there; that is the job of a journalist. Even when you think you know what the answers are going to be, that is the job of a journalist. You can't be making stuff up at the last minute and then spring it on everybody 48 hours beforehand. You could see why they sprung it on everybody 20 hours; it wasn't even 48 hours; it was 24 hours before. They knew the membership was going to revolt, and that's exactly what happened. That's what should have happened. It's an interesting situation, and I have a feeling that we haven't heard the last of it.

Michael Pope  

Yeah, like many things in this podcast, this conversation is to be continued, so stay tuned. Let's head over to that Pod Virginia mailbag. Lauren, what are our listeners talking about? 

Lauren Burke  

We are getting feedback about the podcast on Richmond politics.

Michael Pope  

Yeah, Jon Baliles gave us a shout-out on his Substack RVA 5x5. He wrote, quote, I was a guest on Pod Virginia Thursday morning; we had a great discussion about the upcoming mayor's race, the candidates, their bios, the money raised, and some of the issues each candidate is talking about. Thanks for the shout-out to Jon Baliles; it was great. I loved hearing about the candidates, the issues, and the politics from somebody who really knows this stuff inside and out. Jon Baliles worked for two different mayors; he was a city council member, and he ran for mayor. He knows all this stuff, and he's not a journalist, but he does have a Substack, so he's kind of like a journalist in a way. It was a great podcast and a great discussion. Lauren, what do you make of the race for mayor in Richmond?

Lauren Burke  

Well, Michael, I wasn't really paying that much attention until one of the candidates was asking me if I wanted to do communications for that candidate. So I started paying attention because of that. Then, I had a friend who did a fundraiser for that candidate. I went to the event just to hear the candidate talk. At any rate, I don't pay that much attention to Richmond politics, But because of the podcast and your interview with Jon Baliles, I know a heck of a lot more than I did. The other reason I paid attention to this is that I am curious to know what the candidates think about transparency and FOIA requests. About some of the ongoing problems that have been going on in Richmond with regard to credit card purchases and, frankly, ongoing corruption. I wanted to know about that. It's funny because just a few days ago, they were involved in a crusade for voters forum, in which they addressed that. The audience sent up three questions related exactly to that issue. Now, I'm starting to pay a little bit more attention. But Jon Baliles is really good. His Substack is unbelievable. In fact, a friend of mine told me during the casino discussion in Richmond that a focus group was put together, and they asked the people in the group who their trusted sources were for information. And Jon Baliles came up as the number one answer. His Substack 5x5 came up in the discussion, which is pretty noteworthy. He is somebody who knows the ins and outs of Richmond politics. He's worked in Richmond politics, and on top of everything else, he's the son of a governor. I just think he's somebody who knows information on an extremely deep level. While reading his stuff, I'm always learning something. I was glad that you'd interviewed him because that was really interesting. 

Michael Pope  

It was a great podcast. If you missed it, go back to your feed and take a listen. Let's celebrate some birthdays.

Lauren Burke  

Wednesday, August 7, is the birthday of Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger of Glenn Allen.

Michael Pope  

Friday, August 9, is the birthday of Delegate Destiny Bolling of Henrico.

Lauren Burke  

Sunday, August 11, is the birthday of the governor's chief of staff, John Littel.

Michael Pope  

Sunday, August 11, is also 811 day, which reminds Virginians to always contact Virginia 811 before digging. Can you dig it?

Lauren Burke  

That is...

Michael Pope  

It was a very bad joke. I apologize—to you, to our listeners, and to everyone else. That's just my sense of humor, and it's not going to change.

Lauren Burke  

It's fine. That's it for this episode of Pod Virginia.