Slot Machine Politics, Jim Crow Wages, and Senatorial Misgendering
IN THE NEWS:
During session, Republican Lieutenant Governor Winsome Earle-Sears publicly misgendered Senator Danica Roem, leading to chaos in the chamber, public outcry, and not much of an apology. Michael and Lauren discuss what happened and to what extent it might have been intentional.
Farm workers in Virginia are exempt from the minimum wage, on account of a racist compromise made during the Jim Crow era. The governor now has a bill on his desk that would remove the exemption, but business interests are lining up to defend the existing law.
The movement to bring skill games (or electronic gambling machines) into truck stops and gas stations is seeing pushback from opponents who say they represent a public safety risk.
At the Watercooler:
A new bill from Senator Russet Perry to restrict the travel of local officials, coming after a trip to Ghana from a member of the Loudon County Board of Supervisors.
Michael discusses the historical election where cross-part voters actually did make a difference in a primary election--back in 1949.
Episode Transcript
Michael Pope
I'm Michael Pope.
Lauren Burke
I'm Lauren Burke.
Michael Pope
And this is Pod Virginia, a podcast that is ready for sine die.
Lauren Burke
Considering this week is the birthday of Speaker Don Scott, perhaps we should pronounce it sine die.
Michael Pope
Felix Natalis, I don't know. I'm not a Latin speaker. Lauren, there is a debate about how to pronounce this particular phrase. The Senate has one way of pronouncing it, and the House has another, so just by saying this word, are you actually taking sides?
Lauren Burke
I've heard that, but man, I don't know that's a first-world problem. I'm not gonna.
Michael Pope
Happy birthday, Speaker Scott, regardless.
Lauren Burke
Yes. Happy Birthday, Speaker Scott, the historic speaker.
Michael Pope
All right, let's get into our first story—the misgendering around the world. Senator Danica Roem was making a parliamentary inquiry when it happened.
Danica Roem
And what would be the exact number for that, Madam President?
Michael Pope
Yes, sir. That would be 32.
That second voice you heard was Republican Lieutenant Governor Winsome Earl-Sears. After she misgendered Roem. The senator slammed her microphone down and stormed out of the chamber. The LG took a recess, which is when Senator Jennifer Carroll Foy went up to tell Earl Sears that she had misgendered Roem and that she needed to apologize. But when the Lieutenant Governor gaveled back into session, she just started plowing through the calendar again. So they weren't at ease, at which time Senate Majority Leader Scott Surrovell and Democratic Caucus Chair Mamie Locke went up to the dias to once again tell the LG she needed to apologize. That's when Sears gaveled back into session and said this.
Let it be known. I am not here to upset anyone. I am here to do the job that the people of Virginia have called me to do, and that is to treat everyone with respect and dignity. I have, at times, not been afforded that same respect and dignity.
Lauren Burke
That answer didn't work for Patricia Lynn Stevens, who was at the capitol to lobby for Women and Gender Studies.
Patricia Lynn Stevens
I don't think it's fair that is an excuse almost for misgendering someone. Especially the only trans woman in our Virginia elected stuff.
Michael Pope
So this was a tempest in a teapot. And boy, did this get people talking last week. I will say, Lauren, there's an interesting conspiracy theory that the LG actually misgendered Roem on purpose. It has to do with a backstory here. So when you hear the audio of the misgendering, in fact, let me play it one more time. Now, when you listen to this audio, I want you to think to yourself, is the LG accidentally calling Danica Roem, sir? Was she intentionally misgendering Senator Roem?
Danica Roem
And what would be the exact number for that, Madam President?
Michael Pope
Yes, sir. That would be 30.
So it kind of sounded like an accident. But Lauren, I heard an interesting conspiracy theory that I'd love to get your thoughts on. For backstory, before the misgendering happened that particular day, there was an expected floor fight that was about to happen about a floor amendment introduced by Republican Senator Mark Peake. It was to remove language about birthing people and replace birthing people with women. This is a debate that Republicans love to have. It's the debate they think voters will side with Republicans on. And so the expectation before the misgendering happened was that this floor fight was about to happen. So the conspiracy theory is that the LG intentionally misgendered Roem as kind of a preview of coming attractions to the floor fight that was about to happen, considering Senator Mark Peake's amendment stripping the birthing people language out of this other bill. However, according to this conspiracy theory, nobody knew all of the chaos that would be unleashed by this because when Roem left the chamber, suddenly, after being misgendered, all hell broke loose. They couldn't move on with their calendar. And the LG was kind of forced into a position where she had to apologize. And it's debatable whether or not that speech was actually an apology. Because she didn't mention anything that she had done wrong, she didn't apologize to the individual who had been wronged, Senator Roem; she apologized instead to the body. She didn't say the word apologize. In fact, she said, I apologized three times. But was it, in fact, an apology? Thats debatable. So, after all of the chaos had been unleashed in the Senate, they basically could not move on with the calendar until the LG apologized. And then she gave this aggressive speech. I would describe it as a very passive-aggressive apology. You may have been offended, but what about me? I get offended all the time. So, after all of that, Mark Peake withdrew his floor amendment. And so I guess we'll never know what that fight actually would have looked like regarding the debate about stripping out this language. But that's an interesting conspiracy theory about whether or not what the audio you heard was the LG mistakenly calling Senator Roem a sir or whether or not she did it on purpose. Lauren, do you have any thoughts about whether or not Winsome Earl-Sears intentionally misgendered Danice Roem? Or was that an accident?
Lauren Burke
It's hard to tell. When you look at the wider video, all you can take from it is that the Republican Party is not sympathetic to the LGBT lobby and community. And that culture war stuff is their thing. When you put all of those things together, it certainly leads you in the direction of this was probably intentional. You look at the wider video and think about the fact that there have been exchanges before between Senator Roem and the Lieutenant Governor. If she's trying to make some political-cultural war point, one would have to wonder why she would choose the last two weeks of the session to do it. However, the context that you just provided with regard to Senator Peake is very helpful in answering that question. But trying to figure out the operations of someone's mind is not particularly easy. Obviously, the politics are obvious. And the fact this happens on a week when somebody who's non-binary was murdered in Oklahoma. There's a Department of Education investigation being launched. That's another thing in the back of my mind as this is happening. It's hard to know exactly what the lieutenant governor was up to there. And it probably would have been a very good idea to come back to the dias and simply say, you know, I didn't mean to offend you in any way; I apologize and then move on.
Michael Pope
When it initially happened, it kind of sounded like a mistake. And as you pointed out. Why would she misgender somebody on a Tuesday, a seemingly random point in the session? Well, the conspiracy theory is that it was not seemingly random; it was a specifically timed point in the session. Because later that day, they were going to take up this floor amendment. House Bill 781 was the specific floor amendment on the floor that day. Senator Peake actually had offered this floor amendment to line 11 of that bill to strike birthing people and insert women. This was on everybody's desk. This salmon-colored piece of paper. Everyone had this piece of paper on their desks the day the misgendering happened. And they were about to have this fight over birthing people versus women. According to the conspiracy theory, it wasn't a random Tuesday; it was a specifically timed misgendering.
Lauren Burke
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, I was not aware of that context. That makes it a much more interesting story, to say the least. Having worked for the lieutenant governor, it kind of makes me think that I'm aware of the fact that there is a formal salutation that is to be used when referring to any of the senators. Unlike in the House, that salutation is not really gender-specific in the case of Senator Danica Roem, the senator from western Prince William. So perhaps the Lieutenant Governor wants to stick to the formal salutations. If she ticked people off, it was for what, 30 minutes? How long did they go back and forth when Senator Roem left, and Senator Foy had to go to the dance and all that? How long did all that take? Did you witness all that?
Michael Pope
Yeah, I was in the Senate chamber during all of that, and it was extremely tense. It's kind of hard to tell exactly how long it was from my perspective because so much was going on so rapidly. I don't know, probably 10 minutes or so.
Lauren Burke
I've seen things happen on the floor, from a staff perspective, the things that go on in the background, that go to issues of respect and decorum. And I don't know why it's so hard to say, look, I'm sorry if you took offense to that, I didn't mean to do that, I didn't mean to say it that way, I should have said this, etc., and so on. It's so easy to do that. But having witnessed what everybody else saw on the video, I've looked at the wider conversation. But I did not know about the Mark Peake bill. I didn't know about that yet. That's a very instructive detail that I wasn't aware of.
Michael Pope
The reason you don't know about it is because he withdrew it after this chaos. This was more chaos than I'd ever seen on the Senate floor in my time there. And it was really crazy. You don't really get a sense from the video because they went dark on the video. I mean, they were at ease. They don't keep the cameras rolling when they're at ease. No one really knew how to proceed. At one point, they came back from the first recess. And this was after Jennifer Carroll Foy asked the lieutenant governor to apologize. She did not apologize. She just went back into the calendar. And so she called on the Senate Majority Leader for the next calendar item. And Surovell literally walked away from his desk. He walked over to the Republican side and had a chat with Republican Leader McDougle to say, Look, we can't go on like nothing happened. And I overheard Louise Lucas say, we cannot just pretend like this didn't happen. Something's got to happen here. That's when they went back at ease. That was the second delay. And that's when Leader Surovell and Senator Locke went up to tell the LG Look, You better apologize so we can move on with the calendar. From my vantage point at the press tables, which are just a few feet away, I could actually hear what Earl-Sears was saying because she started raising her voice. You could tell she was getting, not necessarily angry, but she was getting increasingly emotional about what was going on, saying things like, Well, what about me? I've been wronged. Basically, all the things that she said in her speech. Then they gaveled back into session, and she gave that speech. This was a lot of chaos unleashed by the misgendering. I think nobody knew what was going to happen. And after all of the chaos, Peake withdrew his floor amendment. This was a fight that never ended up happening. But it does set an interesting context for the day and the events surrounding the misgendering.
Lauren Burke
Did you hear the Lieutenant Governor refer to anything regarding when she was wronged?
Michael Pope
Her speech did not mention any specific times when she had been wronged. But clearly, this was in the back of her mind, and she routinely wronged herself. And so, Roem may have been insulted, but from the LG perspective, what about me? I get wronged all the time. Which is a very passive-aggressive, I would argue, very baby-boomer way to look at the world. You raised another interesting point, Lauren, that is worth thinking about. The Senate has very stilted language they're forced to use, like the senator from Eastern Fairfax, the senator from Western Prince William, all this sort of thing. And you rarely hear the LG call anybody ma'am or sir. In fact, the person recounting this conspiracy theory to me spoke about the relationship between the Mark Peake floor amendment and the LG's misgendering of Danica Roem. They said the LG never says ma'am or sir, so this was out-of-character behavior for her. I'm not really sure that that's the case. But she's not just using regular language when she's presiding over the Senate. She has a specific set of words and phrases she's supposed to be using. Are there any other examples of the lieutenant governor saying ma'am or sir when presiding over the Senate? I'm not sure there are, but there could be there. But I'm not sure that there are. So she chose that day when the Mark Peake amendment on birthing people was about to be considered to do the misgendering. And she called Senator Roem a sir, which is a word that is rarely if ever, used by the lieutenant governor. You used to work for the lieutenant governor. Do you recall him ever saying ma'am or sir when he was presiding over the Senate?
Lauren Burke
I'm sure he has. This is why I think it's important to look at the longer conversation. It doesn't make what she did any more correct; I'm just saying in a longer conversation, it would be unlikely that the lieutenant governor would keep referring to a senator as the senator from Hampton or the senator from the Isle of Wight. Or in the case of Senator Roem, the senator from West Prince William. When you're having a colloquy back and forth with a senator, some pronouns are going to be used. I'm sure that Lieutenant Governor Fairfax did that. And I would be surprised if Lieutenant Governor Sears didn't do the same; we just have to go back and look at the video to answer that question because this was part of a back-and-forth discussion. It was a long back-and-forth discussion. If I had time, I'd go back and look at the video from earlier in the session to see if there was a pattern there. But it's interesting that in the Senate, they do have these strict salutations for every senator when you address senators. It's certainly not a casual language; it's specific to location and junior or senior status. Regardless of all that, okay, it would have been a better idea for Lieutenant Governor Sears to have come out and said, I didn't mean to offend anybody. It'd be interesting to know what she's talking about. I mean, she is the first Black female lieutenant governor of Virginia; I can assure you that there are things that go on up there you're not seeing. I don't want to get into the pain of the Olympics here; it doesn't make it right because you've been wronged. I'm just saying that it would not surprise me if she's referring to something that those in media who cover the General Assembly have not asked her about. And if they did ask her about it, they probably wouldn't care to write about it. So, things are going on that are not easily seen by the naked eye. I'll just say that.
Michael Pope
Final point on the misgendering. Before we move on, it's a political one. The lieutenant governor is trying to become governor. She's got opposition from Republican Attorney General Jason Miyares. The two of them are engaged in a kind of behind-the-scenes competition between them for the Republican nomination next year. Lauren, do you think this misgendering episode helps her or hurts her in that Republican primary?
Lauren Burke
The Republican Party has no sympathy when it comes to LGBT-related policy. This is on-brand. I'm not sure why it would matter in a Republican Party, particularly with this iteration of the Republican Party. If you go to the Human Rights Campaign website, you can see all of the results of the hatred that happens. They have like a list of transgender people who have been murdered, and you have to scroll up and on to see the full results. The Republican Party is not sympathetic to LGBT policy, period. They don't talk about it. They don't in any way platform or amplify it. I don't think it really matters in their primary, not this iteration of the Republican Party.
Michael Pope
So that wouldn't hurt her necessarily. But does it help her? If you saw social media explode the day of the misgendering, there was lots of right-wing Twitter congratulating her for misgendering and celebrating her for misgendering Danica Roem. I guess they're overlooking the apology. This is what I was trying to get at. Does it help her?
Lauren Burke
I don't think that they care enough about human beings who are in the LGBT community one way or the other. You don't hear any discussion in regard to LGBT-related policy or issues that disproportionately impact members of the LGBT community. I don't think it matters on their side of the aisle. I don't think it hurts her or helps her. I just don't think it's an issue for them. And this is what they do. They're a party that, for some reason, likes to target marginalized groups who have historically been marginalized and historically targeted for violence. The FBI put out its annual hate crimes report; I think it came out two months ago. Number one on the hate crimes report was African Americans and number two was LGBT. Number three was Jewish Americans. So, the Republican party isn't paying attention to that.
Michael Pope
Alright, well, moving on to our next story. Evicting Jim Crow. Jim Crow racism is the reason why farmworkers in Virginia are exempt from the minimum wage; it was part of a compromise back in the 1930s to get a minimum wage.
Adele McClure
When we passed the Virginia Minimum Wage Act, we left behind some of the hardest workers in Virginia. And we cannot continue to leave these workers behind for another year.
Michael Pope
That's delegate Adele McClure, a Democrat from Arlington, who says it's time to end the racist exemption.
Adele McClure
This is an antiquated law that only benefits big agriculture. It imposes a significant disadvantage to the small- and medium-scale farmers who are the backbone of Virginia's agriculture.
Lauren Burke
Cliff Williamson at the Virginia Agribusiness Council says removing the exemption would be a mistake.
Cliff Williamson
Many of our businesses are paying above minimum wage. That is because we are able to negotiate off of that minimum floor, that lower floor than our competitors in the non-AG space have to offer, and that will change when this exemption goes away. Our entry point will then be at the same place as everyone else's.
Michael Pope
This bill is now on the governor's desk. And he's got a really important kind of awkward decision to make: does he side with Jim Crow, or does he side with the farmworkers? Business interests are lining up to defend this racist Jim Crow exemption that was created in the 1930s. And it's important to remember the history here. In the 1930s, the US Congress was considering minimum wage, and they needed to vote to pass it. You had all these southern lawmakers, members of Congress, who said minimum wage, well maybe we're on board, but not for the Black people. So, they carved out this exemption to prevent Black farmworkers from getting the minimum wage. This is why farm workers are exempt from the minimum wage. It was the racism in Congress in the 1930s. And it's currently there today. That's the backstory of why it's there. And you hear the business arguments here. If you have the minimum wage, it doesn't just affect people who make the minimum wage, but it affects people who make more money than that. Because there's now a new floor that didn't used to be there, that means those people who run those businesses are going to have to pay their employees more, even if they don't make the minimum wage. So that's the business argument for not requiring the minimum wage of farmworkers. But it seems strange to me that we are in 2024, still arguing about the value of Jim Crow.
Lauren Burke
Yeah, if we were to change policy and law in Virginia based on Jim Crow law, we would be changing a lot of things. I think about Thomas Jefferson High School because the ongoing argument about the lack of diversity there really stretches all the way back with regard to how African Americans are treated in the South. Particularly in Virginia, when it comes to education, which nobody cares about, and that has a present-day real-world effect. And someone Black in Virginia, you're not going to go back to many generations to have anyone who went to college in your family. Because of those racist laws with regard to education, this Commonwealth has never been equal. I mean, we're not in 1930; we're in 2024. We're three years outside of a pandemic that greatly hurt and disabled a lot of businesses. And when it comes to Virginia farms, we have a situation where 85% of them are making less than $50,000, which is also known as a small business. I don't mean to sound like a Jack Kemp Republican here. But I do think that when I go to Virginia Agribusiness Council events, I see the smaller businesses. Agriculture is not Target or Walmart; they're not the same thing. When we talk about the minimum wage, I think when people think about the minimum wage, they're thinking about the multimillion, multibillion-dollar company that has figured out some way to not pay their employees properly. But when we talk about Virginia Farmers, we're talking about a lot of small businesses. And I think that needs to be kept in mind when we think about these types of pieces of legislation. Agriculture is not the same as big-box retail.
Michael Pope
It reminds me of a story that I covered several years ago that has a lot of similar dynamics on Virginia creating the right to sue for overtime. So, there's a federal right to sue for overtime. And back in 2020, Virginia created the state ability to sue for overtime. But, oops, accidentally, they gave farm workers the ability to sue for overtime. And so they had to come back around years later and say, well, you know what, there's this Jim Crow exemption and the federal law that prevents farmworkers from suing for overtime. And Virginia, for some reason, accidentally put in this Jim Crow exemption for farm workers so that they did not have the ability to sue for overtime. And they added new Jim Crow language to the Virginia code on this overtime issue. So every time the farm worker exemption comes up, Jim Crow always wins. Even in the 21st century, 2024, Jim Crow is probably going to win this fight that we're talking about right now.
Lauren Burke
We've lost 5,000 Farms in Virginia over the last five years. And so the business reality with farming is that you have global competition. Not so you don't have global and international competition in other sectors in Virginia. But agriculture is one of these things that is seasonal. And you may be paying workers a different way than you would at a big box brick-and-mortar type business. On the federal level, there's always a discussion about how the minimum wage impacts small businesses. And I can't imagine it being any different, Virginia. And when you speak to people who actually run a business and have to make ends meet on a small staff if any staff at all. Some of these farmers are family-owned businesses and, quite frankly, could not survive the death of the owner of the business. So, agriculture is a little bit trickier. I'm certainly not an expert in this. I was glad to talk to Cliff about this a little bit because he sure as hell knows a lot more than I do. My father's uncle had a farm in Franklin, and I used to run through the cornrows as a little kid. They had a little farm. But now what I see happening in the same area, decades later, is a lot of these tobacco farms, cotton farms, kale, corn, they're starting to turn into other things like solar fields and stuff like that. So farming is a difficult thing that I think is not necessarily the same. When we talk about businesses, we think about the minimum wage. I think when people think about the minimum wage, they're thinking about Bernie Sanders and the fight for low-income folks to have a minimum wage. And you're thinking about those big box conglomerates. However, the agriculture industry in Virginia is different and would be impacted adversely by this. I suspect that the governor would veto not only this but any other minimum wage bill.
Michael Pope
Alright, moving on to our next story. Slot machine politics, most people call them skill games. Some people call them electronic gambling machines. Todd Gathje at the Family Foundation calls them neighborhood slot machines.
Todd Gathje
This year, lawmakers and gambling lobbyists are pushing small business economic development, which is nothing more than an addiction for-profit business model.
Lauren Burke
Byron Fox is an evangelist with the Faith Wins Coalition, which is opposing legislation that would allow the machines at convenience stores and truck stops.
Byron Fox
We're in communication with our beloved Governor Glenn Youngkin. And we have expressed to him our grave concerns and our righteous indignation against the skilled machines.
Michael Pope
Rich Goszka with the Police Benevolent Association says the machines pose a public safety risk.
Rich Goszka
These machines will place an undue burden on our law enforcement officers by bringing more crime to our communities.
Michael Pope
So Lauren, as is often the case in the General Assembly, this is a decision that is going to be made in a secret closed-door conference committee where the House and Senate have very different approaches on how to handle these machines. The House version is more tough and strict. The Senate version lacks and is limited. Starting with the tax rate, the tax rate in the House is 30% versus the tax rate in the Senate, which is 22%. The House version has two machines per convenience store and five machines per truckstop. The Senate version has three machines per convenience store and seven at truckstops. And then you get into the financial data; the House demands direct access to the financial data where the Senate says, Oh, well, the industry, can you issue a report, and we'll receive that report? You can self-report. Basically, a lot of very important differences between the House and the Senate in terms of how strict the rules are going to be and how much the tax rate is going to be on these machines. Maybe I'm wrong about this, Lauren, but usually, what happens when they go into the conference committee is, for whatever reason, the Senate almost always wins.
Lauren Burke
Yeah, well, I think the Senate will definitely win in this case. And we've got a conflict of interest involving one of the senators, and I think it's not reported about enough.
Are you talking about Senator Stanley being a lawyer representing one of these companies?
Yeah, I sure am.
Michael Pope
That's actually kind of common in the General Assembly. And there's a button they can press for that. He doesn't actually have to vote; he can publicly announce his conflict of interest and not vote on this.
Lauren Burke
He could, but he probably won't. Skill games, I wonder what is so skillful. Aren't we talking about slots? Aren't they slot machines?
Michael Pope
Well, okay, on a previous episode of Pod Virginia, we had a guest, Brian Moran, who is representing the coalition of businesses that want these skill games. And if you go back and listen to that episode, he says, These are actually games where if you develop the right skill, you can win every time. So, a slot machine is dumb luck; you either win or you don't; it's just a matter of luck. According to Brian Moran and supporters of the machines, these are games where you can develop skills actually to win the game. You have the skill to win, as opposed to just being lucky.
Lauren Burke
I would love to know what game meets that definition. But anyway, I think a lot of folks who are against this see this as a regressive tax against poor people. They're put in places where folks that will be lower income. Notice how you're not hearing any discussion of putting these at the Homestead or some country club and Fairfax. You're talking about gas stations and truck stops; that's interesting. I think that's slightly telling in the locations. So we'll see what happens at the conference. And I think you're right. Certainly, the Senate seems to win out in these conferences. But really, who wins out? Is it the moneyed interests who are behind the lobbying efforts for these types of things? And we'll see how that turns out.
Michael Pope
Yeah, but it seems the governor has concerns with the House version and concerns with the Senate version, which is probably smart because he's maintaining his leverage. There was a really interesting story in the Mercury about this that laid out all of the details. And it's definitely worth watching. Whatever comes out of the conference committee, the governor has the ability to amend that. So, I believe the skill games bill is something we're gonna be continuing to talk about through the reconvened session. All right, well, let's take a break. When we come back, we'll play a round of trivia and read your comments.
Alright, let's play some trivia. Last week, we asked you about the origin of Virginia's one-term limit for governors. Virginia governors cannot be elected to a second consecutive term; they can come back for a non-consecutive term, but they have this one-term limit where they cannot run for reelection. So, when was this lame-duck rule created?
Lauren Burke
Trevor Southerland chimed in with this gem, "sometime in the last 400 or so years would be my guess. Also, it's stupid".
Michael Pope
So, it is technically correct because it did happen sometime in the last 400 years. So, thank you for playing Trevor Southerland.
Lauren Burke
The answer is 1830, as in the constitution of 1830. And we have some winners.
Michael Pope
Baxter Carter won the early morning award, DMing me at 5:42 am on Monday to say the answer was 1830 when Virginia adopted its second constitution. So, thank you for playing and for participating so early. I didn't even know our podcast was up that early.
Lauren Burke
Me either. Jay Spear posted this on X, " In the 1830 constitution they extended the term from one to three years so maybe limited to one term was the trade off".
Michael Pope
Matthew Montgomery also had the right answer, posting this on X, "1830. However, if you are going to go for when the governor's term was increased from three years to four years and when the governor was chosen by a direct election that would be 1851".
Lauren Burke
Doesn't Matthew Montgomery win every week?
Michael Pope
Yeah, it does seem that way, doesn't it? So someone asked me the other day which of our listeners had won the trivia question the most amount of times, and I said without hesitation, it's Matthew Montgomery.
Lauren Burke
So perhaps he should win something we've been the undisputed champion yet.
Michael Pope
Well, bragging rights, maybe the smug self-confidence of knowing that you're right. I guess that would not be all that distinguished in a building like the General Assembly Building. Perhaps the undying adulation of all the pod Virginia listeners out there.
Lauren Burke
All of the above. Okay, Michael, what's our trivia question for next week?
Michael Pope
Staying on our theme of the Virginia Constitution. Here is our trivia contest for next week. How many constitutions has Virginia had?
Lauren Burke
If you think you know the answer, hit us up on social media. You might even win the contest, even if there is no actual prize.
Michael Pope
Okay, let's head over to the water cooler. Lauren, what's the latest you're hearing around the watercooler?
Lauren Burke
I want to talk about a bill that was offered by the new senator from Loudoun, Russet Perry. The bill was to restrict the travel of local officials. And it was the result really of Nick Minock of WJLA, the Sinclair-owned station based in Washington, DC. That bill came after Phyllis Randall, the Chair of the Loudoun Board of Supervisors. Who took a trip with two other Black members of the board to Ghana. They took the trip to Ghana, they came back, and Nick Minock decided that it was a scandal. And he tweets on and on about this trip. I believe it was a seven-person trip for $60,000. And this goes on and on and on. So that brings us to this session of the legislature. Where Senator Russel Perry comes in and drops a bill that would restrict travel. Now, what's interesting to me about this is that the previous board chair before Phyllis Randall was a guy named Scott York. Scott York went to Germany six to seven times. He went to Taiwan a few times, and nobody asked him anything about his travel. It never got to the paper; nobody cared. Now you have Phyllis Randall, a Black Board Chair who has made history in Loudoun within that position. And it's rumored she's someone who might run either statewide or for Congress. She passed on Congress's first go around. But you know, Phyllis Reynolds has always been rumored to be running for something else. And sure enough, Nick Minock, a former staffer during the Trump administration, comes in and makes a big deal about this trip. And it ends up being a piece of legislation, which then dies. It died last week in the House of Delegates. So I bring this up because of two things. One is you can increasingly see the media in this country becoming extremely political, to the point where it's openly political. Of course, in the case of Fox News, you have people who sit in the anchor chair and are advising the President of the United States, Donald Trump. But it was sort of interesting to watch the Nick Minock thing because it was keeping with what the Republican Party in Loudoun was directing at Phyllis Reynolds, almost indistinguishable. I think it's true; we certainly want to press the questions, our elected officials. You definitely want a press that is trying to find out if there's any corruption and wasting of money, etc. But sometimes, there are also naked political things that go on, and they are slightly ridiculous. As somebody who's worked in politics and in media, I'm always very upfront about the fact that even though I run like a media platform, I have a media platform. Everybody knows I'm a Democrat. Everybody knows who I've worked for. It's kind of all out there on my LinkedIn, and I've worked for Democrats my entire life. But it's starting to get to the point with some media where they might as well fully disclose exactly what their politics are. Because it's so obvious what their politics are. But I am a little surprised, frankly, that certain Democrats stood up for Nick Minock, a former staffer in the Trump administration, Kristen Umstattd, who's on the Loudoun County Board, and Russell Perry. This has never come up before; travel has not come up before. We have local officials traveling all over the place in Virginia. The governor goes to the Paris Air Show. I actually FOIA Governor Youngkin's Paris Air Show travel, and it was over $150,000 bucks, or whatever it was. But that's standard stuff; it suddenly feels like Phyllis Randall is taking a trip to an African country. And all of a sudden, there has to be some new law passed restricting travel for local elected officials. I thought that was a little strange, particularly since it was Democrat versus Democrat. With this version of the Republican Party that we see right now, pushing Donald Trump to be their nominee, you would think that the Democratic Party would be focusing their attention on the Republicans, but in this case, that one case I thought that was a bit strange.
Michael Pope
Yeah, as you point out, elected officials go on international trips all the time. Where I live in Alexandria, there is a Sister Cities Program. So there's like a French city that is a sister city of Alexandria. And I've seen mayors and city council members go over to France and, I mean, come on, these are vacations. You just mentioned the governor going to Paris. Was he working in Paris? I mean, it's actually pretty routine. The thing that strikes me about this Phyllis Randall story is that it's not like she's going to an international travel destination; she's not going to the French Riviera here or Paris; she went to Ghana. Then again, on the other hand, people hate the idea of taxpayer-funded junkets. Travel that's unnecessary travel; that's something that the elected wants to do. That's probably a legitimate story. I mean, I see your point. Why pick on Phyllis Randall? Why not pick on the governor for going to the Paris Air Show? That's fair. But isn't it all kind of have a piece here?
Lauren Burke
No, because $60,00 for seven people is really not that much for a trip. Particularly when you represent one of the wealthiest places in the United States, Loudoun is extremely wealthy. And it's not as if some school wasn't getting funded or something like that. I just find it to be really odd. And really, the reason it became a thing was that you had a partisan media actor from a Sinclair-owned station pushing the story, tweeting about it endlessly. And then when it died in the General Assembly, Nick Minock was out there, like lobbyists, tweeting about it again, like, are you kidding me? And the Democrats who then amplify Nick Minock don't see that's a partisan moment in media. I mean, there are certain things that, in this age of politics, the Republicans won't do, even when they disagree with each other. And they will not tear each other apart. They have enough discipline, even in their undisciplined policy moments, even if they will not go against each other. It's still sort of that old Ronald Reagan saying about not speaking ill of another Republican. So, I think in the relative sense, if we look at stories about travel and elected officials. Anyone who has covered that issue, and it comes up a lot because it's a very low-hanging fruit thing, you see how much travel there is to report on? During the Trump administration, there were several officials, several cabinet officials, who were spending into the millions. And we're not seeing WJLA do an expo on that. And we sure as hell didn't see a comparable example, on the local level, that would have been given to Scott York, the previous Chair of the Board of Supervisors. So I just feel like, are you kidding me? We can see partisan media; you can see it from Fox News. You can see it on the left from MSNBC. You can see the discussions that are not happening, and they're being ignored because they're politically inconvenient. Everybody can see that, but man, that is for this. This one, to me, has got to a point of of ridiculousness, just absolute ridiculousness. When you look at the facts and the money and the numbers, you compare it up against some other travel that we've seen from governors in Virginia and local elected officials around the Commonwealth. What about you, Michael? What's the latest you've heard around the watercooler?
Michael Pope
Well, Super Tuesday is right around the corner. Tomorrow, in fact, is Super Tuesday in Virginia. And so there's this talk about whether or not people are going to do cross-party voting. So Virginia does not have closed primaries; you don't have to be a registered Republican to vote in the Republican primary because Virginia doesn't have a system of party registration. So Democrats can vote in the Republican primary. Republicans can vote in the Democratic primary, and there's always this fear that the other party is going to interfere with the other party and it's going to act in a decisive way. You hear this every election cycle, and usually, the conventional wisdom is, yeah, a little bit that might happen on the margins. But it's never enough to be decisive. Well, Lauren, I've got some proof of when the other party participated in a primary. And it was, in fact, decisive. We're going to turn back the clock all the way to 1949, which is when there was an election for governor, and this was in the Bryd machine era; Governor Bill Tuck could not run for reelection because of that one-term limit. So the Bryd machine had to pick a candidate for governor, which was basically the main point of the Bryd machine was to pick candidates for governor. So they picked this guy, John Battle, who had served in the House of Delegates, he had served in the State Senate, very sort of common career trajectory. And so he was the party guy, John Battle. Well, there was also an anti-machine candidate, Francis Pickens Miller, who was constantly on the campaign trail campaigning against the Byrd machine as kind of an anti-machine candidate. And so there was this fascinating Democratic primary here between the machine candidate and the anti-machine candidate. In this book that recently came out, called The New Dominion, edited by John Milliken and Mark Roselle, We've talked about it on the podcast many times. The very first chapter in the book is about the history of the Bryd machine, written by the late Ron Hyneman. It's fascinating because it actually talks about this particular election and points out that the Bryd machine reached out to Republicans and asked them to participate in this democratic primary to help their machine candidate, John Battle, win. Now, you might say, well, why would the Republicans want to help the Bryd machine? Well, the answer is that Francis Pickens Miller was a supporter of labor and had the support of the AFL-CIO. And one thing that Republicans in Virginia hate even more than the Bryd machine was organized labor. In fact, the Republicans were sometimes friendly with the Bryd machines specifically to defeat organized labor. So this 1949 Democratic primary actually featured some Republican votes and not just any Republican vote, a decisive amount of Republican votes. So here's what the late Ron Hyneman wrote in The New Dominion, which actually just came out last year. It's a fascinating book; I highly recommend you pick it out. So this is a quote here from page 34 of the book, "most commentators, including Miller, and his supporters, believed the Republican vote turned the tide that had been running in favor of the anti-organization forces and assessment confirmed by the large turnout for battle in heavily Republican areas". Lauren, you and I often talk on the podcast about the fear that the other party is going to meddle in the primaries. Conventional wisdom is that that might happen but is not enough to be decisive. Well, here we've got evidence that the Bryd machine made it happen back in 1949.
Lauren Burke
Yeah, I'm surprised you can find something because we do hear that all the time. Nobody really has an example of it. But there it is. Wow. 1949, that goes back to a time when the parties were really, essentially different. The Republican Party and the Democratic Party, as we know it, were really actually flipped in the way. So this is a really interesting thing that you have to go back that far.
Michael Pope
Yeah. And also, this was a period when Virginia was essentially a one-party state. Republicans were trying to build an organization, but they wouldn't get a governor elected for many years into the future. And it's really interesting, the strange bedfellows here of the Republicans who were willing to work with the Bryd machine, as long as it's to stick it to labor. That's kind of what their goal was, and hey, success, they got their guy elected; John Battle, in fact, won that primary and was elected governor. And so it's interesting to see the Crisscross party meddling; I guess it wasn't really meddling because the Bryd machine asked the Republicans to help them. However, cross-party voting was actually decisive here in this particular primary. So, it's just something to keep in the back of your mind. The next time someone tells you that it's never worked, it actually has worked, and we have evidence of it from 1949. Alright, Lauren, let's go ahead and open up that Pod Virginia mailbag. What are our listeners talking about?
Lauren Burke
People loved our episode with Hayward Sanders and Neil deMause. I really liked that episode. It was great.
Michael Pope
Yeah, it was the big reveal on the 30,000 job documents the city of Alexandria finally handed over after two months of constantly asking them. It ended up producing an underwhelming amount of information, to say the least.
Lauren Burke
Steve Verdier chimed in to say this: "great episode, one guest noted that the arena is one deal from one developer. We should have a choice of proposal so far. All we have is take it or leave it. Let's have some competition".
Michael Pope
John posted, "smoking gun alert. We've said for months that the 30,000 jobs numbers that the governor and the Alexandria Economic Development Partnership are repeating ad nauseam is pure crap. Now Michael Pope, Neil deMauase and Heywood Sanders have the proof. Will the House and Senate listen"?
Lauren Burke
I guess we'll find out.
Michael Pope
Yeah, I guess we will. We also heard from a listener who enjoyed our podcast. Last month, Phil wrote in to say this, "I think it's important to have sane Republicans on if there are any left. I'm not a hardened conservative or excessively liberal, so I appreciate the balanced approach". Well, thank you, Phil, we appreciate it.
Lauren Burke
Meanwhile, we are still hearing from people about our interview last week with Susanna Gibson.
Michael Pope
Yeah, that was a scorcher. Jen posted this, "So much to say, next time push a little harder Pod Virginia."
Lauren Burke
How much harder could we have possibly pushed?
Michael Pope
That's what I was kind of thinking, well. To that end, we also heard from Williams, who wrote an email, and it's a little long, so bear with me here. But we're gonna have Lauren respond to this, quote, "Lauren's position on the discussion was composed almost entirely of leading questions with built-in assumptions designed to shame Gibson regardless of her answers, and it's disturbingly inappropriate to take such an approach with a victim which is what Gibson is. Lauren then proceeded to analyze Gibson's predicament during her campaign by misleadingly comparing her to two men who have faced accusations of perpetrating sexual crimes. Some of Lauren's portion of the interview indicates that she refuses to respect or even recognize the unique experience and needs of victims of sex crimes, including non-consensual distribution of intimate photographs. Moreover, she attempted to hide what appears to be a contempt for these victims behind her claim she's just old fashioned, which is often an excuse by those who wield a retro grade morality to shame and harm others". So, Lauren, what's your reaction to this email?
Lauren Burke
In talking to Susanna Gibson, she sure as heck doesn't sound like a victim to me; she has been extremely good at putting her side of the story out. I wish that the party had not told her not to speak when this first came out with the Washington Post in September 2023 because I've enjoyed the fact that Susanna Gibson has been really good at detailing some of the problems with the initial story, which is why I was asking her all those questions. It always happens when you talk to people who are directly involved in a lot of these stories. The impression that you get from the story when you first see it, particularly that headline, which, by the way, the writers in these stories typically do not write the headline. But my impression of the Gibson story was, wow, she put this out there. And she's doing this for money. And this is all negative. I talked to Susanna Gibson before our podcast and, of course, during our podcast, and I find this story leads me in a completely different direction. And I have a completely different attitude about the whole thing. So, I'm glad that she was answering so directly, and I was able to question her. We asked her a bunch of questions about it. What I was looking for was whether the story could have been inaccurate. Or, when you look at it, is the story actually accurate? But the problem is that it leaves out details that would have changed how the average reader views the situation. Namely, of course, this whole issue of if you put something out there that is personal, and you're meaning for it to be seen by only a few people. And then someone takes that content and blows it up and amplifies it to a bunch of other people. You did not consent to see it. Is that what this is like? That's the issue that I think makes Miss Gibson a victim of invasion of privacy. And, of course, she's working on that legislation. So, it's not meant to be mean to Susanna Gibson. I think Gibson's great, and I can't wait to talk to her again, in detail, about not only this but some other stuff. And I just wish she was. I wish she had been allowed to talk when it happened. I actually think she would have won if she was allowed to talk when it happened.
Michael Pope
Yeah, who doesn't agree with that? Susanna Gibson actually said in our podcast that even without this scandal, she probably would have lost because of the higher turnout in Goochland.
Lauren Burke
Yeah, I know what she's done, the Goochland thing. I laughed, but actually, I mean, she sure as heck knows more about that area than I do. So she's probably right about the Goochland thing. But it felt like the way that Gibson communicates is very authentic and direct. And I think people really liked that even when there was a controversy. And again, when you see something like this in the paper. And this is like the first time that you're finding out any details about somebody, and it's negative, and a scandal, it's really good to find out from the person what's going on. My view of the whole story is completely different than it was when I first read it, and when it comes to issues of sexual violence. Obviously, there's a lot of sensitivity around questioning people and asking questions. And certainly, the Me Too movement and Time's Up made it taboo to ask women anything. So we kind of arrived at this point where if you're asking anyone, any questions, who has any allegation, that is not supposed to happen, they sort of set the tone of allegation is truth. Allegation is if someone is alleging something and believes all women are the thing that they pushed. But until we got to the point where Joe Biden was accused in April 2020 of sexual assault, and then that all changed all of a sudden, everybody believed in due process and the presumption of innocence again. But I do think that the writer is kind of keying into that ethos. But one thing for sure is that you have got to ask questions to find out what the facts are. Not asking questions is antithetical to journalism, investigation, and due process, and I can't cosign not asking any questions. It's flying too close to the sun of what Ida Wells Barnett had to work on in the late 1800s. And if you do any journalism, you have got to ask some questions. Even when they're uncomfortable. But Gibson has absolutely no problem answering. She's been really forthright. And I'm really glad she has been because I've seen it happen so many times when I've read a story. I've been a part of stories where I have worked as a communications person and knew for a fact that what I saw in the paper was factually inaccurate, and the journalists had not spoken with the people who were involved. So I'm just glad Gibson is out there talking.
Michael Pope
All right, let's celebrate some birthdays this week.
Lauren Burke
Tuesday, March 5th, is the birthday of speaker Don Scott.
Michael Pope
Tuesday, March 5th, is also the birthday of Delegate Israel O'Quinn.
Lauren Burke
We have three birthdays on Wednesday, March 6th: Jackie Glass, Kelly Gee, and Patrick Hope.
Michael Pope
Sunday, March 10th, is the birthday of former Attorney General Richard Cullen, who is currently an adviser to Governor Youngkin. So, happy birthday to all.
Lauren Burke
That's it for this episode of Pod Virginia. Transcripts are on the website, and follow us on social media for more chatter on Virginia politics.